Tsunami

30 Dec, '04

The death toll is unimaginable, and is set to rise even further. That horrific number is going to double due to death by disease we are told by health authorities. That whole region needs desperate help.

The collection point in the blogosphere seems to be TsunamiHelp, as to Bahrain, it’s Al-Marsam Al-Hussaini.

What is there to learn from this disaster other than we’re here one second and gone the next, all completely out of our control? It is therefore best to work toward good deeds and make a difference, so at least you are remembered that you have done good in your life.

May Allah give all succour in their moment of need.

[update: Chan’ad has put up a list of other organisations in Bahrain accepting donations for the victims.]

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Comments (70)

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  1. 7alaylia says:

    Tsunami

    I pray for the people involved in this disaster. My wife’s family had a maid for many years from Sri Lanka who has actually much more a member of the family than someone who worked for us. Her name is Fawzia and we are trying to find out if she made it through alright. We have called her number but the phone lines do not seem to be working in Sri Lanka, at least in her area.

    We have tried to locate her village on the map but have been unable to do so. Insha’Allah, we will find out soon there Fawzia and her family are alright!

    Malik

  2. Alireza says:

    Re: Tsunami

    Trying to ascertain some moral from the mass slaughter is nonsense – it only insults the victims. The tidal wave didn’t hit these people because of something they did but because of geological forces beneath the Earth’s crust. It was completely indiscriminate as to who it killed – with the overwhelmingly number of its the victims very poor and no doubt mainly pious Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims.

    Anyone crass enough to draw any kind of judgement on these people should be jeered out of town.

  3. mahmood says:

    Tsunami & the Lethargic Arabs

    NY Firms are donating and further matching their employees donations dollar for dollar to help people they have nothing in common with other than humanity.

    Does anyone know if any Arab conglomorate doing the same?

    If they’re not it is very shameful, as we MIddle Easterners have a lot more in common with those unfortunates than NY firms have.

  4. salima44 says:

    Re: Tsunami & the Lethargic Arabs

    Don’t forget Mahmood some asshat at the UN thinks the US is “STINGY” in giving aide. Americans aren’t stingy in giving aide, as a government or individuals we give till it hurts.

    [Modified by: Bonsaimark (Bonsaimark) on December 30, 2004 06:20 PM]

  5. mahmood says:

    Re(1): Tsunami & the Lethargic Arabs

    I’m always amazed at North Americans and Europeans giving generously without any consideration of race, colour or creed. I’m yet to see that in droves in the Arab world and I’m damned if I could understand why. The overall reason (and I might be completely off-base here) is that Arabs/Muslims just say that it’s the Will of God, so fuck it, He’ll take care of them!

  6. salima44 says:

    Re(2): Tsunami & the Lethargic Arabs

    [quote] The overall reason (and I might be completely off-base here) is that Arabs/Muslims just say that it’s the Will of God….[/quote]

    The old “INSHALLAH” (sp?) attitude????

    Most of Europe digs deep at times like these except the French, who as of yesterday had offered a tiny $140,000 us to the cause. I hope they have add a few million EUROS to that by now. When all is said and done the US will have poured at least 1 billion into the region in aide. I expect the EU to get close to that number as well. No amount of money will replace the lives lost but it can help people NOW and in the future.

    Does anyone know what governements in the GCC region have donated?

  7. mahmood says:

    Re(3): Tsunami & the Lethargic Arabs

    Saudi = $10m

    not sure about the others

  8. 7alaylia says:

    Tsunami

    We need to keep in mind it is not the total dollar amount each country has given, it is more important to look at the percentage of the donation when it is matched against what the country has. America gives more because it has more, percentage wise America is at the low end of the table when matched against most Western European countries when it comes to charitible giving.

    As to the Saudis and other Arab governments, they are too buying more luxury items to worry about anyone else. I forget which Saudi prince said that the relationship between the Saudi royal family and Saudi citizens was excellent, even utopian, he said this whilst sailing in his multi-million dollar yacht off the French Riviera. This whilst the average earnings of Saudis has dropped tens of thousands of dollars in the last decade or two.

    I know the mosques here in the USA, and the DC especially, have gone overtime into fund raising for the people of the area. It has been all over the local mosque e-mail lists and most mosques are donating all of the takings for a specified period of time to relief work and are encouraging people to give to charities. There have been many adds and apeals on the local Islamic radio station here in DC (yes, there is one) appealing for donations and help.

    God have mercy on them all, no matter their race or religious background!

    “And most certainly shall We try you by means of danger, and hunger, and
    loss of worldly goods, of lives and of [labor’s] fruits. But give glad
    tidings unto those who are patient in adversity – who, when calamity
    befalls them, say, ‘Verily, unto God do we belong and, verily, unto Him we
    shall return.’ It is they upon whom their Sustainer’s blessings and grace
    are bestowed.”

    The Holy Quran, 2:155-157

    It was reported that when there was an earthquake, `Umar ibn ‘Abd al-‘Azeez (may Allah have mercy on him) would write to his governors telling them to give in charity. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever meets the needs of his brother, Allah will meet his needs.” (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

    ICNA RELIEF UPDATE

    The world’s most powerful earthquake in 40 years triggered massive tidal
    waves that slammed into villages and coastal lines across southern and
    southeast Asia, killing thousands of people in six countries, Indonesia,
    India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Malaysia and Bangladesh. This devastating
    earthquake also left thousands injured and hundreds of thousands homeless.

    ICNA Relief is in process of collecting more information and to find out
    how to help the victims of this Earthquake immediately and effectively.

    SEE: http://www.reliefonline.org/

    MD MUSLIM ESTABLISHES SRI LANKA RELIEF FUND

    Head of CAIR-MD/VA lost 30 family members in tsunami

    (Bethesda, Maryland 12/27/04) – A Maryland Muslim who lost 30 members of his

    extended family in the tsunami that hit Sri Lanka on Sunday has established

    a relief fund to help survivors of the disaster.

    Rizwan Mowlana, who is also executive director of the Maryland and Virginia

    office of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-MD/VA), today announced the establishment of Asia Relief, Incorporated, a nonprofit organization dedicated to assisting in the relief and rebuilding effort in Sri Lanka, the country which suffered the most human casualties in Sunday’s tsunami disaster.

    Asia Relief is currently accepting donations of nonperishable food items, clothing and toys for victims of the tsunami in Sri Lanka. Cash donations are also being accepted. Donations can be dropped off anytime at 19409 Olive Tree Way, Gaithersburg, MD, 20879.

    “This disaster clearly shows how vulnerable we are as humans and as nations,” said Rizwan Mowlana. “This is a time for us to come together and help these devastated people to heal and regroup.”

    At least 23,000 people are feared dead throughout Indonesia, India, Sri Lanka and Thailand with thousands injured and missing as well as hundreds of thousands homeless. About 12,000 people are believed dead in Sri Lanka alone while an estimated 1 million Sri-Lankans have been displaced and some 250,000 are left homeless.

    END

    CONTACT: Asia Relief Rizwan Mowlana, 301-672-9355, 301-986-1900.

  9. anonymous says:

    Re(2): Tsunami & the Lethargic Arabs

    Mahmood,

    I can’t speak for Europe but private sector charity in the US is very sizable and very – uh – aggressive. The charity industry is exactly that, an industry. They are calling you on the phone asking you to donate money for this or that. They are sending you donation requests in the mail. They are knocking on your door. They are standing outside the supermarket trying to get you to open your wallet for some poor needy slob somewhere. The smart ones wait outside the bank and snag people on the way out when they have a wad of money in their pocket.

    Now, they are all good causes but I can’t donate to all of them as I am not a bottomless pit of money. I’ve got a set of charities that I donate to and that’s it.

    -Aliandra

  10. Rickardo says:

    Re(4): Tsunami & the Lethargic Arabs

    http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11810352%5E1702,00.html

    Does this help?

    Well, I keep trying to fix it, but it keeps putting a space in the tag.

    [Modified by: Sume (Sume) on December 30, 2004 12:18 PM]

  11. salima44 says:

    Tsunami

    [quote]We need to keep in mind it is not the total dollar amount each country has given, it is more important to look at the percentage of the donation when it is matched against what the country has. America gives more because it has more, percentage wise America is at the low end of the table when matched against most Western European countries when it comes to charitible giving.
    [/quote]

    The American Government gave 40% of all aide in the world last year. I call that MORE than a fair share of a percentage. Now add in what individual citizens contribute as well it becomes even larger.

    You are correct that the Mosques as well as Churches and Temples in the US are on OVERTIME in fundraising right now. I am positive that this will always be the case when it is needed. People helping people. As it should be.

  12. km_romio says:

    Tsunami

    The only silver lining to this disasterous cloud is how the entire world have shelved their differences and all banded together… Over the last year and a half, I’ve really started to lose faith in humanity and all of a sudden it takes a global disaster to remind you that deep down inside we all care for each other…

    I am terrified of the after effects of this disaster… The countries affected survive on tourism, how’s this going to affect the airline & hospitality industries? How badly are insurance and reinsurance firms going to be hit (I’ve read the articles, but no one really knows the extent of the quake)? How long will it take to repair and damage? Fresh water sources have been contaminated, people are starving and the death toll is just increasing…

    I just hope the aid doesn’t line some already fat pockets… There are many people that will see a disaster like this as an opportunity…

  13. anonymous says:

    Re: Tsunami

    The insurance industry will be hit hard but the airline and hospitality industries will recover. This is a one time in ten lifetimes disaster.

    Now that the disaster has struck, the thing to guard against is to not follow it up with a man-made economic catastrophe by throwing the wrong kind of help at these poor folks. For example, throwing too much food can hurt them further by destroying the farmer’s livelihood. People will not buy food locally from the farmers if they get it free from international aid agencies. They need to give them just enough to get them on their feet but not too much that it skews their economy and puts them out of work. The same goes for housing, et cetera. It’s better to give them semi-permanent housing, like tents, and let the local workers profit from rebuilding their homes rather than just do it for them and put the local people out of work.

    Sometimes too much kindness can be cruelty.

    Steve

  14. mahmood says:

    Re: Tsunami

    :rotflmao:

  15. chalk66x says:

    Tsunami

    We in Hawaii have been hit by Tsunamis 13 times in the past 100 years, Hilo has been especially unlucky. Its caused us to develop a warning system that works about as good as possible when a quake happens some distance away. When a quake happens as close as it did in Indonesia even our system wouldnt have saved many lives in Indonesia but a lot of lives in Thailand and India.

    When I heard someone from India say they cant afford to set up a system I just had to shake my head in disgust. Million man army ok, tsunami system not affordable.

    Hopefully out of this can come a world wide system to monitor and alert people.

    [Modified by: billT (billT) on January 01, 2005 09:12 AM]

  16. mahmood says:

    Re: Tsunami

    We’re an island too, and I am absolutely sure that we don’t have anything of the like in here. Sure we’re in a sheltered location in the world, right in the middle of a relatively narrow waterway and any kind of tidal wave (I think) would have dissipated a lot distance away from Bahrain, but I don’t know what factors are being monitored in Bahrain and what contingency planning there is.

    For instance, everyone seem to be developing these man-made islands in the Gulf. From Kuwait all the way down to Dubai with huge developments constituting little islands. It does get windy all around the Gulf, what effect that has on these new developments, or indeed on the current natural islands (like Bahrain) and other land masses is anyone’s guess.

    If there is research on these phenomenon, they’re not being publicised enough.

  17. anonymous says:

    Re(5): Tsunami & the Lethargic Arabs

    news home | top | world | intl | natl | op | pol | govt | business | tech | sci | entertain | sports | health | odd | sources
    AP • Reuters • New York Times • CBS • MSNBC • USA TODAY • FOX News • Poll • Photos

    [b]U.S. Pledges $350 Million in Tsunami Aid-Official[/b]

    Dec 31, 1:26 PM (ET)

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The United States will provide $350 million in aid for victims of southern Asia’s devastating tsunami, a government official said on Friday.

    Details of the aid package were still being worked out and it was not clear whether the money was in addition to the $35 million already pledged, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

    President Bush had said on Wednesday that the initial U.S. pledge of $35 million was only the beginning.

    A magnitude-9 earthquake a day after Christmas triggered a massive tsunami that killed more than 124,000 people in 13 countries. The death toll continued to rise as more bodies washed ashore and hundreds of thousands of people remained without food, clean water, clothing and shelter.

  18. anonymous says:

    Tsunami

    Thanks for posting this! For Christians who would like to help with the disaster relief, there are several Christian missionary organizations that are providing relief to those suffering from the Tsunami disaster. You can find their links at:
    http://www.heartformissions.net

  19. Alireza says:

    Re: Tsunami

    I don’t know if these religious organisations which latch on to disasters and backend their relief with evangelical messages do much good. It’s not appropriate.

  20. chalk66x says:

    Re(1): Tsunami

    I would guess its very possible that you could be hit. A major quake off the coast of Bushehr Iran or Kuwait City could produce a Tsunami with a straight shot at Bahrain.

    Dont know how developers are there but I cant imagine them paying much attention to Tsunamis and definitely not releasing information unless forced to.

  21. anonymous says:

    Re: Tsunami

    [quote]God have mercy on them all, no matter their race or religious background![/quote]

    But as we all know, the Tsunami was a call away from the kaffirs.

    From: http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=101163&list=/home.php
    [quote]
    [b]In conclusion then, the earthquake of South Asia is a warning from Allaah (swt), not only to the people of that region, but rather to the whole of humanity, and to the Muslims in particular, that they may return back to their Lord and their Deen.[/b] Many of the Muslims today have gathered many sins, some of those sins are so great (kabaa’ir), that it has taken them outside the fold of Islam, while others are on the verge of the Kufr. We see those who delay and neglect prayers, eat haram foods e.g. food that is stunned before being slaughtered, deal with riba (interest), do not fulfill their trusts (covenants), order the evil (munkar) and forbid the good (ma’roof), rule by Kufr laws, uphold and make excuses for the apostate rulers and their governments in the Muslim lands, associate partners with Allaah in his names, attributes and functions, [b]indulge in free mixing,[/b] display their awrah, [b]listen to music and songs[/b], [b]smoke (This one’s for you, Mahmood 🙂 )[/b] and have abandoned the Qur’aan and the Sunnah. All these exist in our society.
    [/quote]
    Also, I happened to see this:

    http://www.islamonline.net/livefatwa/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=pL4f9i
    [quote]
    Name Mary –
    Profession

    Question It is permissible for us, as Muslims, to make du`aa’ for those human beings afflicted there even if those people include Muslims and non-Muslims?

    Answer In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

    All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

    Thank you.

    There is no harm or prohibition to pray for those people who lost their lives in that natural disaster. [b]However, your beloved Muslim brothers and sisters deserve more and more of prayers and du’aa’.[/b] They deserve your moral and financial assistances. You should share their sorrow and difficult time and do invoke Allah to accept them among the Shuhada’ or martyrs on the day of Judgment.
    [/quote]

    And this too: “It is not permissible to give zakat to a non-Muslim” (Al-Maqasid, 4:13).

    Muslims lag behind the rest of the world in Charity not because they don’t care, but because they only help Muslims. Christians help without regard to race, religion or creed.

  22. anonymous says:

    Re(1): Tsunami

    Not only Christians, y’know

    http://www.islamonline.net/livefatwa/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=pL4f9i

    [quote]
    Question Can we give those afflicted people a portion of our zakah money even if they are non-Muslims? How about giving them charity?

    Answer In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

    All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

    Thank you. The receivers of Zakah money are clearly mentioned in the Qur’an. Among them, the poor and needy people. Looking at the situation of those people who are afflicted, one can conclude that the Muslims among them fall under the category of needy people.

    In this regard, those Muslims deserve to receive a portion of Zakah. As for non-Muslims, they might deserve donation or any other form of assistance but not Zakah.

    Thus, Zakah should be given to poor and needy Muslims. [b]Some non-Muslims may receive a portion of Zakah if there is hope that by giving them Zakah that might lead to their conversion into Islam.[/b] They would be then considered under the category of mu’allafati qulubuhun or those whose hearts are inclined to accept Islam.
    [/quote]

  23. kategirl says:

    Re(2): Tsunami

    Yeah, we have no protection against a tsunami produced anywhere along the northeastern edge of the Arabian Plate. It’s quite scary when you think about it coz the most developed and populated areas are on the northern coast of the island. And Muharraq Airport would probably be the first to take a hit… hmmm… It seems like the gov should take this more seriously.

  24. anonymous says:

    Tsunami

    Back to anonymous on aggressive charity collectors –

    I would rather give to the reputable charities that really help people. If they have to ask for money so aggressively maybe we should already be giving to them more enthusiastically. When I think of all the material goods we Americans buy and then throw away the next year… compared to people in Indonesia who even before the tsunami didn’t have much. After the September 11 terrorist attacks Americans gave about $2 billion to organizations like the Red Cross. Now the need is much greater across many countries. I believe that we should give even more, as individuals – not only our government.

    Rebecca

  25. anonymous says:

    Re(3): Tsunami

    From Mahmood’s description and map of the man-made islands in Bahrain, it reminds me of the extension of land made by San Francisco into the bay. They planted houses and apartments on it. When the last earthquake shook it, that fill liquefied and amplified the destruction of the shock wave. Of course, San Francisco is near a fault line in the tectonic plates while Bahrain is fairly far away from any of that, I think.

    Steve

  26. anonymous says:

    Re: Tsunami

    The problem with the Red Cross, as shown by their misdirection of funds after the Sep 11 attacks, is that the bulk of your donations don’t reach the disaster scene but are redirected into the organization’s general budget. The leadership of these organizations are too often dishonest about what they do with your donations. Very often, especially with Hollywood charities, they act offended when questioned about what was the tangible result of donations, as if they above being held accountable.

    I don’t agree that aggressive marketing by charities infers we should reward them with more donations. In the US, many charities outsource their donation collection to professional organizations who keep a proportion of it, very often the majority of it. In some cases, the charity only receives a few percent of the total donations while the boiler room operator keeps the rest. That’s OK with many charities because they are happy to receive a check for any amount with no effort. I don’t much care for the idea of paying telephone marketers to call me for donations to keep them in business.

    I don’t have a very good answer as to how to guarantee your money actually reaches these poor unfortunates. My best guess would be to send it via some organization run by the US government or a church with a preexisting presence in the area.

    Steve

  27. anonymous says:

    Re(1): Tsunami

    I dont know about using the US goverment to dispense private contributions. According to the NY Times U.S. relief for the Bam, Iran earthquake a year ago still has not been delivered.

  28. anonymous says:

    Re(2): Tsunami

    The US Aid for Bam has not been delivered because Iran has not allowed the aid to be delivered. The Mullahs decided that aid from the US was not wanted.

  29. mahmood says:

    Re(3): Tsunami

    If that is true… then those mullahs DO have their turbans wound FAR too tight. No blood to brain. No right thinking. Maybe they thunk a bit, but not well enough. So, the decision is final: take the dimwits out and shoot them to put them out of their misery.

    … and you can take that to the bank!

  30. mahmood says:

    Re(1): Tsunami

    can you show these dimwits this picture

    and get them to identify who the muslim is and what – in death – is the difference between whatever creed? Isn’t mercy one of the traits of Allah and He does not give it to an exclusive group?

  31. mahmood says:

    Re(4): Tsunami

    Bahrain is safe. Or at least that’s what we’re led to believe because we just don’t know the structure of what is beneath and around us. We were never taught at school what the geography of the area is. We know a lot more about Egypt’s than we do about the Gulf because the carricula were all Egypt-based.

    We don’t know if there is a government department looking into these things and playing “what-if” scenarios.

    We don’t know if there is such a thing as a “rapid response centre” for natural disasters in Bahrain, if there is then at least they would ensure that a bloody ambulance would actually have right of way. At the moment NO ONE would move aside for an ambulance. It just has to wait until the red light changes to green and EVERYONE goes through first before it is given a chance to move. To hell with the situation that the ambulance was called out for. And when it DOES go through, EVERYONE races after it, red light or not, it’s an opportunity to go FAST.

    And the story continues… by God’s grace alone, this area of the world has survived for so long.

  32. anonymous says:

    Re(1): Tsunami

    I think this response simply comes from a lack of experience with these types of organizations, because nobody with any experience makes that type of statement.

    The truth is, it is religious organizations, specifically Christianity, which has led the world’s humanitarian projects for the last 2000 years. As early as the first century, when Rome’s massive plague drove its residents to leave the city and their sick family members to die, it was the Christians that came into the city at risk to their own lives to take care of the sick and dying. Christianity is also responsible for inventing the concepts of hospitals, universities, representative government, literacy for the masses, the elevation of the common man, high regard for life, and the codifying and setting to writing of many of the world’s languages.

    The reality is that Christian missionaries are already in place in these areas helping educating people, teaching them farming and industrial skills, creating fresh water sources, supporting the orphans, homeless, and refugees, and helping AIDS victims. It only makes sense to send support through an organization that is already in place, has a relationship, and is helping the people. Unfortunately, there are a lot of anti-religious views like yours that hold back much needed support and relief.

  33. anonymous says:

    Trackback :: Give a Little Bit

    TrackBack from Desert Island Boy

    I thought I’d tag this along since someone mentioned concerns about how money was being spent and budgeted.

  34. mahmood says:

    On Topic

    May I ask all posters to please stick to topic?

  35. salima44 says:

    Tsunami

    In this time of strife in the region can you imagine surving the tsumani and then have this happen to you? Taken from todays GDN.

    Vol XXVII NO. 289 Monday 3 January 2005

    [b]Tamil Tigers torch camp [/b]
    COLOMBO: Tiger rebels yesterday torched a refugee camp in Sri Lanka’s northern peninsula of Jaffna in which some 60 Tamil families who were victims of last week’s tsunami were housed, a defence official said.

    Defence Ministry spokesman Daya Ratnayake said the rebels torched the refugee shelter after local residents defied the guerillas and continued to accept aid from the military.

    “The Tigers don’t want us to help the victims,” Ratnayake said.

    “They set fire to the structure and forced some 60 families to flee to another shelter at a church.”

    Another government military official said two Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) members arrived yesterday morning on a motorbike and burnt the camp at Kudatane, in Jaffna.

    “Two cadres of the LTTE came on a motorbike and burnt the camp,” the official said.

  36. 7alaylia says:

    Re: Tsunami

    Interesting. The conflict there has been pretty bad. Most people are suprised when you tell them that the most prolific suicide bombers have been the Tamil Tigers, and not an Islamic group.

    I do not know that much about the area. We had a lady who worked for us for years who was a double minority there, she was Tamil and Muslim. Time to read up more about the area and the issues.

    Malik

  37. 7alaylia says:

    Re(2): Tsunami

    Maybe we ought to point out to them as well that The Qur’an requires Muslims to protect other faiths before Islam in time of war. The Qur’an specifically requires Muslims to protect Churches and Synagogues before Mosques. In the same vein one would think this would extend to humanitarian work as well.

    But some Muslims arent the only nutters out there. Here in the USA people on the lunatic fringe are saying that God did this so that it would puposely kill Muslims, the most affected areas have been Muslim, Indonesia, and in Sri Lanka on the coasts, which have been historically the area where the Muslim population(about 7%) is centered.

    Malik

  38. salima44 says:

    Tsunami

    Malik

    I posted that for two reasons. 1) To highlight man’s inhumanity to man in a time of crisis and 2) that not all terrorists are Muslim or religious in nature.

  39. anonymous says:

    Re(4): Tsunami

    Those American military who did fly in aid to Iran were surprisingly well received. Welcomed, really. I recall one Iranian asking them to invade Iran.

    Steve

  40. anonymous says:

    Re: Tsunami

    BM,

    Fortunately, only a tiny minority of people can be so inhumane. After Sep 11, there was a precipitous drop in crime. For a few days. It looks like even criminals feel pity, even a sense of community, when the heavy stuff comes down, at least in NYC.

    Though I have a strange sense of relief to be reminded that there are non-Muslim terrorists, it does not reassure me when they are mere exceptions to the rule.

    For most people around the world that I have seen, the natural reaction to somebody else’s distress is to render aid. I think it is very nearly a hard-wired biological response in humans, an acknowledgement that we are stronger as a group than as individuals.

    Steve

  41. anonymous says:

    Tsunami

    So…….how much in donations from the truly hideous Saudis? That is one country I wouldnt mind seeing wiped off the map.

  42. anonymous says:

    Re(3): Tsunami

    [b]IN DEFENCE OF CHRISTIANITY[/b]
    Actually, The oldest university in the world, PatliPutra University, is in India which is 81% Hindu and 12% Muslim. Also, as I’m sure you are aware, not everything built lasts forever. Therefore, just because something is the oldest doesn’t necessarily make it the first or the standard. The point, however, was that no religion has done more to educate people than Christianity. The major universities of the world all had their start as Christian universities. Harvard, Princeton, Oxford… all began as Christian universities.

    Also, to say that Hitler and Stalin were Christians (followers of I’sa (Jesus Christ)) tells me that you are not very knowledgeable of the Bible and the Qur’an. Hitler and Stalin were not only non-Christians, but they were directly opposed to the teachings of I’sa. Your other mistake is to believe that everyone in North America and Europe is Christian. Those who colonized Asia and Africa did not do so at the command or example of I’sa, neither did those who mistreated the American Indians. These are all typical tactics used by Christian-haters to blame the crimes of the world on Christianity.

    The only real point you made was that of the Crusades (“Holy Wars”). You fail to mention is that all Christians today condemn the Crusades as a non-Christian act, as well as did many Christians of that day, including St. Francis Bernadone of Assisi and his followers. If you read the teachings of I’sa you will see that he never condoned spreading Christianity by force. This is why Christians also condemn the Crusades.

    [b]HOLY WARS OF TODAY[/b]
    With this said, Islam has their own “Holy Wars”. They are known as Jihad. In fact, according to Islam, Jihad is the second greatest thing a Muslim can do:

    [i][color=darkblue]”Allah’s Apostle was asked, ‘What is the best deed?’ He replied, ‘To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.’ The questioner then asked, ‘What is the next best in goodness?’ He replied, ‘To participate in Jihad, religious fighting in Allah’s Cause.'”[/color][/i]
    (Bukhari:V1B2N25)

    The world trade center was destroy in the name of Islam… Half of Africa is being destroyed in the name of Islam. Sudanese children are murdered and the mothers removed of their breasts so they cannot feed their hungry children, in the name of Islam. My wife and I work with Somali refugees who are here in America because their homes were destroyed and families murdered in the name of Islam.

    Unlike the Crusades that took place in the Middle Ages and were condemned by Christians then and now, Islam is still fighting its “Holy Wars” and with much support from Muslims.

    [b]THE INADEQUACY OF ISLAM[/b]
    Please be aware that, if I am being hard, I am being hard on Islam… Not on Muslims. I have many friends that are Muslims, including the Somali refugees that me, my wife, and several other Christians are working with to help them integrate into their new home. I love Muslims, but I must be hard on Islam because it strips Muslims of hope and happiness, and leaves them without eternal salvation.

    Let me ask you, as a Muslim, do you know where you will spend eternity? Are you in the right sect for eternal salvation? If Allah has provided a way for salvation but will not definitively show you the way, can we say that Allah is good? If you were drowning in three feet of water and to save you all I had to do is tell you to stand up, but I did not, wouldn’t you say I was evil? When Allah refuses to show the one way to eternal salvation, why then do we say, “Allah is good”?

    I love Muslims, so it hurts me to say what I have to say… and that is that Islam is a bankrupt religion that destroys everything it touches.

    Let me ask you… We see people from all the countries and major cities of the world, including Mecca, travel to attend the Christian founded universities I mentioned in the first paragraph. Why is it that the world does flock to attend Muslim universities? Why is it that Muslims can fly planes, but Muslims cannot design a plane? Why is it that in, the history of the world, only one Muslim (who had 100 American’s working with him) has one the Nobel Peace Prize? Why is it that it is Christians in America that are helping the Somali refugees and not the Muslims? Why is it with the amount of money that is coming in to help the Tsunami victims, Muslims countries are at the bottom of the list for amount given?

    Why is this? Is this because Muslims are not as smart, successful, or compassionate? No!! The reason is because people become like the God they worship. When a group of people worships an angry and vengeful god, they become and angry and vengeful people. When people worship the creator, compassionate, relationship-centered God, they become creative, compassionate, and relationship-centered. You will notice that people that worship rocks and sticks live in the dirt. We all become like the God we worship.

    Muslims are as smart and successful as any other people. The reason the worlds greatest accomplishments don’t come from Muslims is not because of the Muslim… It is because of Islam.

    [b]HOPE FOR MUSLIMS[/b]
    Muslims and Christians both worship the God of Abraham. Unlike most Christians, however, Arabs are true descendents of Abraham. The Jews coming from Isaac, and the Arabs coming from Ishmael… but both blessed by God… and both still warring against the other as two jealous siblings.

    There is a story of I’sa and a Samaritan woman that goes as follows:

    [i][color=blue]”Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

    I’sa declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

    The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

    Then I’sa declared, “I who speak to you am he (that Messiah).”[/color][/i]
    (John 4:19-26)

    I believe the Muslims of today are like the Samaritans at the time of I’sa. You could tell the same story as a Muslim as you could as a Samaritan. It would sound like this:

    [i][color=blue]”Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped toward Mecca, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

    I’sa declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither in Mecca nor in Jerusalem. You Muslims worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

    The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

    Then I’sa declared, “I who speak to you am he (that Messiah).”[/color][/i]
    (John 4:19-26)

    Just like the Samaritans, Muslims do not know the God they worship. This is why Muslims say that Allah is “the unknowable one”. But, I’sa came to change all that. I’sa came to bring us into a relationship with the Creator God. I’sa said, “If you know Me, you know the Father who sent me.” (John 8:19)

    In John 14:6, I’sa said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father (God/Allah) except through Me (I’sa).” If I’sa is a prophet, how can he say that he is the only way to Allah if He is not? Is I’sa a liar that leads all men away from Allah? If he is a liar that leads all men away from Allah, how can Muhammad support his teachings? If he is not, then he truly is the only way.

    The most important thing that a person can do is to study for themselves is “Who was I’sa?”

    I will leave you with this… When I’sa walked the Earth he said, “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32).

    Let me ask you… Has Islam set you free?

  43. 7alaylia says:

    Re(2): Tsunami

    Yes, an Ode to Christianity! You write “As early as the first century, when Rome’s massive plague drove its residents to leave the city and their sick family members to die, it was the Christians that came into the city at risk to their own lives to take care of the sick and dying. Christianity is also responsible for inventing the concepts of hospitals, universities, representative government, literacy for the masses, the elevation of the common man, high regard for life, and the codifying and setting to writing of many of the world’s languages.”

    Yes, and Christianity also gave us the Crusades and millions dead in the new world as well as numerous religious wars in Europe. Christianity also gave birth to Hitler and Stalin. If Christianity is responsible for the concepts of universities, why is the oldest university in the world in a Muslim country? High regard for life? The regard shown by Hitler or Stalin? The regard shown for the colonies in Asia and Africa? How about the regard for the lives of American Indians?

    Yes, Christianity has done a lot for the world, and it has also done a lot of evil to the world. In this manner it is no different than any other religion.

    Malik

  44. 7alaylia says:

    Re: Tsunami

    You want to wipe a country from the map? The government maybe, but there are some really good Saudis out there. I am married to one. Why does everyone feel the right to generalise like this? Sounds just like bin Laden…”I’d love to wipe America off the map.” When you propose things like this you become no better than them.

    Malik.

  45. anonymous says:

    Re(3): Tsunami

    [quote]Maybe we ought to point out to them as well that The Qur’an requires Muslims to protect other faiths before Islam in time of war.[/quote]I would like to know where the Quran says that, because I saw a verse from the Quran in another post here that says waging Jihad agains other religions/nations in the name of Allah is the second greatest thing a Muslim can do.

  46. anonymous says:

    Re: Tsunami

    [quote] So…….how much in donations from the truly hideous Saudis?[/quote]On CNN this afternoon the figure was 10 million. I don’t know their situation or want to judge, but it seems like they would have given more with all of that oil wealth they have. When you consider there are so many Muslims that need relief in Indonesia, it seems rediculous that Christian organizations like World Vision and Salvation Army, not to mention primarily non-Muslim nations are giving a much higher percentage to that Muslim nations.

  47. anonymous says:

    Tsunami

    Hello Mahmood, Malik and others that post here. All the best for new year. Mahmood, this is a great site and you are to be comended. We in Australia get a lot of mixed information on the Middle East. Our media are the same as anywhere and dont present a well balanced storey.

    The slant being put on the tsunami dissaster by some is sickening. The slant that gets to me most is that of “extremists” who saying it is a result of their accumulated sins. If that is the case the only sins of the people of Aceh could be that they are seeking an Islamic state seperate from Indonesia. This would seem to counter the extremists own theories.

    I am a Christian but I am not a fanatic. I live my life based on Christian principles but I don’t live my life according to how the Church dictates I should live. I believe that God gave us a soul, a brain and compassion. He did so for each of us to conduct our lives with choices available. The true spiritual person comes to an understanding and knows right from wrong. Mere rituals do not make a good christian or muslum. It must be inside otherwise it is only for show. I know many christian’s (catholics in particular) that attend church regulalry and partake all of the religious edicts but go back to work and mistreat people, rip people off etc…and this is OK. I dont think so. Yet these people will tell you how religious they are and how you should live your life and that you are wanting in some way. I imagine this kind of thing happens in all religions.

    I believe these kind of people are very missguided and do more harm than good. Take the current situation for example. The muslum scholare in Thailand who states that Muslum aid should only be for Muslums really upsets me. If Christian’s or the west more to the point adopetd this line of thinking, where would we be. The western systems is far from perfect but at times like the tsunami dissaster, I am proud to be Australian. The public has donated $83 mill (AUD) todate with many organisations on the ground doing the grim but necessary tasks. The defence forces are flying supplies around the clock and there are at least 2 field hospitals operating. The Australian Army has engineers fixing the water supply which is the biggest concern over there.

    This to me is true religion, caring for one’s fellow man regardless of colour creed or religion. At the end of the day we believe in one almighty being (God, Allah etc) and that the basic principles are the same. Lets focus on these points of agreement and not on the devisive ones.

    Regards,

    Neal H

  48. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(3): Tsunami & the Lethargic Arabs

    US movie star Sandra Bullock just gave a million bucks to the tsunami victims, which means one single American gave seven times as much as France.

    Steve

  49. anonymous says:

    Tsunami

    you all need to stay on your own two feet. dont be affected by things accross the world you have no control over… the world would be a better place if everyone would use their own land for what they need. give there gov money for stuff like this and it just goes to their rich.

  50. anonymous says:

    Re(1): Tsunami

    That makes four Bin Ladens now. Bottoms up, everyone! Be sure to refill your glasses with the liquor of your choice quick so you’ll be ready to throw back one the next time Malik calls somebody Bin Laden. It’s Malik’s Bin Laden Drinking Game! Feel free to join in!

    Malik, the reason that so many people rag on the Saudis is because the Saudis are systematically indoctrinating their people in hatred for all non-Wahhabis through their universities and media and mosques, are telling them to go kill infidels, are funding and equipping them to do the same, and are sending them to the four corners of the world in a vast campaign of Wahhabi Terror. When the Saudis lose their enthusiasm for beheading infidels and blowing them into bloody chunks, they will regain their reputation in the civilized world.

    Steve

  51. anonymous says:

    Re(3): Tsunami

    the only way to protect yourself is for you to find god again. no research, no dam will protect you from GOD.

  52. anonymous says:

    Tsunami

    fak io

  53. anonymous says:

    Tsunami

    Not all atention should go on this one disaster, other countries are in need as well.

  54. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(4): Tsunami

    What about all the people on high ground during the tsunami? They were plenty protected. Was everyone who was not on the beaches good with God and the others not? Lots of people in Banda Aceh who were on the second story of buildings fared the waves without injury while those walking or driving on the streets did not. Does that mean second story people were one with Allah and those driving down the street rode with the devil?

    Or to put it more bluntly, is your linking of this tragedy to Allah’s retribution pure nonsense?

    Steve

  55. anonymous says:

    Re(3): Tsunami

    here is a link to an earthquake monitoring and prediction site, look at Bahrain and it’s proximity to the ‘next big one’ [url]http://tsunami.geo.ed.ac.uk/local-bin/quakes/mapscript/ek_show_map.pl?tip=1[/url]

  56. mahmood says:

    Re: Tsunami

    huh?

  57. anonymous says:

    Tsunami

    I am sorry to say this to you but i have to; you havent any information about tsunami’s victims all over asia or in some parts of it ….. by the way i wanted to give this presentation in school but you didn’t have any information about it….

  58. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(2): Tsunami

    Arab Muslims do not immigrate to Western countries to become part of the West but rather to colonize it so that one day they may Islamicize it, to fly the black flag of Islam over your capital. In practical terms, that means that they want to turn nice civilized countries like Australia into squalid hellholes like Bosnia. They take your reticence to criticize not as tolerance nor good manners but as a weakness to be exploited. If you do not defend your way of life in words today, you will be forced to defend it with arms tomorrow.

    Steve

  59. mahmood says:

    Re(3): Tsunami

    Not true. People emigrate, regardless of origin, to escape economic circumstances or the promise of a better quality of life or escape persecution. They don’t emigrate to colonise. The only state whose colonisation is a goal and strategy is Israel in their acceptance of Jewish emigres and no other religion.

    For the record, the colour most representative of Islam is green, not black. Hence if there were an Islamic flag it would be green in colour.

  60. mahmood says:

    Re(2): Tsunami

    I’m sorry to say that your ex-partner is simply a moron. A racist moron who bites the hand that feeds him. He just HAPPENS to be a Muslim. His attitude simply refelects his own psyche rather than the whole or even minute part of the Muslim world.

  61. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(4): Tsunami

    Mahmood,

    I’m quoting the Islamists and their close observers when they say the aim of Muslim immigration to the West is to colonize. Here’s an excerpt from an article to illustrate the point:

    “Catholic Archbishop Giuseppe Bernardini warns, for example, that millions of Saudi petro-dollars have been used not to create work in the poor Islamic nations of North African or the Middle East, but to build mosques and cultural centers in the heart of Christian countries with Islamic immigration, even including Rome, at the very heart of Christendom. How can we ignore this blatant Muslim program of “expansion and reconquest,” asks the archbishop, especially when radical Muslims have been so forthright about their intentions? Bernardini recounted a conversation he had with a Muslim leader who said to him: “Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you. Thanks to our religious laws, we will dominate you.” ”

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1126378/posts

    I’m quoting the Wahhabi goal to raise the black flag of Islam over Western capitals. In the same article:

    “In London, Sheikh Omar Bakri openly declared his intention to transform the West into Dar Al-Islam and to establish Sharia on British soil. “I want to see the black flag of Islam flying over Downing Street,” he has said.”

    The black flag in Islam goes back to Mohammed, according to this website:

    “Islam has not symbolized itself with any particular object or symbol, but due to political reasons a flag was required to give a standard for Muslims, especially during the wars. The Prophet used flags of different colors in different Ghazwat (campaigns commanded by the Prophet) and Saraya (campaign commanded by any Sahabi). The major flag of the Prophet was known as “Al- Uqaab”, it was pure black with and without symbol or marking. Its name and color was derived from Quraish’s national flag.”

    http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/islam.html

    This website says the black flag of Islam is a war flag for Muslim soldiers:

    “It has been confirmed in many narrations that there are two flags in Islam; the first is called Al-Liwaa and serves as the sign for the leader of the Muslim army. It is also the flag of the Islamic State. The other is termed Ar-Raya and is used by the Muslim army.”

    http://islamicweb.com/resources/flags.htm

    As I understand from other helpful Islamic sites, the black flag is also associated with revenge.

    Steve

  62. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(3): Tsunami

    Mahmood,

    He may well be a moron but he’s not a singleton. The investigation of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing revealed quite a Arab Muslim subculture in New York who fled to America for opportunity and simultaneously want to destroy it. The Islamists were quite openly having large conventions in American cities and advocating the destruction of America, their rhetoric concealed by the language barrier. They even made videos of themselves. You can see it for yourself in the DVD “Jihad In America”: http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/search/search__cat_id–5105,prod_id–6385952.html.

    Such hateful attitudes toward their American host appear to be the mainstream sentiment among Muslim immigrants to America.

    Steve

  63. anonymous says:

    Re(1): Tsunami

    Just wanted to mention that in regards to relief efforts, Australia only has a population of 20 million, yet our government was the first to pledge the $1 billion dollars in relief efforts aswell as other services and millions of dollars from the Australian public. The U.S.A. then matched those efforts.

    My ex partner was a Muslim and within his Muslim community here in Australia there is a lot of hatred towards Australians and our way of living. I have never heard him be grateful once for being given a beautiful and safe country to live in aswell as money from out government after he had to leave Bosnia during the Bosnia/Serbia war. During the time I was with him all I ever heard was racist comments towards our people, yet most of our people are made up of European, Asian, etc heritages and backgrounds. I regret now sitting in silence and not defending my country everytime him and his friends had racist comments to say about Australian people. I do not in any way hold negative feelings towards Muslim people and infact only think what seperates them so much from other religions and cultures is just old fashioned traditions and beliefs and when they come to countries like here for example they see change and new traditions/beliefs and people do not like change, it takes a long time for people to accept change because of the fear of the unknown, that which they aren’t used to. That is what the human race all has in common, not racism.

    Something to think about.

  64. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(5): Tsunami

    Mahmood,

    These conventions where Muslim immigrants spouted hate against America, Israel, and the usual other topics went on in many major cities in America, pitched in major venues. They were rather large affairs that packed large banquet halls. They made no effort to hide the event but felt safe enough to say anything they pleased in Arabic.

    They were discovered by accident, by a journalist who just happenned to stumble upon them in a hotel and decided to see what they were all about. He collected their literature, videos, had them translated, and was shocked to find that there was a network of foreign Muslims promoting jihad against America in America. I’ve watched the video. It’s pretty chilling.

    Now, if a majority of Muslim immigrants reject such extremism, why didn’t one of them come forward to report these terror networks forming and openly convening to make war on America? Why was this subculture of Muslim extremists only discovered accidently by an American? This must have been an open secret in the Muslim community. Why did all those Muslims who knew about this side with the extremists by keeping their secret?

    Steve

  65. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(6): Tsunami

    Mahmood,

    Sep 11 makes the extremist talk credible, along with the string of atrocities that are connected to it by the Wahhabi jihad. We ignored such talk before Sep 11 and came to grief by neglecting to take action against it. We can not ignore it after Sep 11.

    We agree that these people are trash. We disagree in our approach to dealing with trash.

    Steve

  66. princess_nora says:

    Re(6): Tsunami

    Steve,
    those extremists groups don’t share their thoughts and ideas with any Arabian in America. They keep all their plans secret, and they don’t mingle with everyone, because not all Arabs approve of their behaviour. So Arabs in America didn’t side with them, they just didn’t know… And the only ones who knew about it, sided with them, because they’re extremists too.
    I’ve been living outside Bahrain for 3 years now, and I have European, Far-Eastern, American, and Israeli friends. As a matter of fact,4 of my friends (2 lebanese and 2 Israeli girls) ALWAYS hang out together, they even live together. Whenever we meet up, we always have a good time, and when we talk about politics, we all agree on one thing: there are good guys and bad guys in every society… and we all dream of a peaceful world. We respect each other’s religious beliefs a lot, I never felt uncomfortable with them. I taught my Israeli friends some Arabic words, and they taught me some Hebrew too
    Bottom line, there are some peaceful Arabians Steve… It’s not that bad, trust me.

  67. mahmood says:

    Re(6): Promoting Terrorism in America

    Now, if a majority of Muslim immigrants reject such extremism, why didn’t one of them come forward to report these terror networks forming and openly convening to make war on America?

    Here’s the rub Steve. As far as I’m concerned WHOEVER knew about these extremist gatherings and did not report it to the authorities regardless of race, sexual orientation, religion, lunar phase or what have you is as much guilty as the dickhead at the podium. Find the ones that didn’t bother to do anything with this dangerous information and lock them up first, and then round up the extremists and lock them up if proven guilty. I’m 100% behind this. However, I still maintain that these “misguided souls” or “terrorists” or whatever you wish to call them are STILL a minority and do not represent a sample of the Muslim world.

  68. mahmood says:

    Re(5): Tsunami

    Steve, these quotes are from the very fringe of Islam. These people are not given any credibility in their own community and we know and learn to ignore them. To you they sound fantastic and you give them credibility because you don’t know them. To most of us they are simply trash.

    As to the flags’ colours, thanks for the links, very educational. In some cultures black is a sign of goodness and beauty, in others it is death and revenge. Judging how close and intertwined we are with Africa (Mecca being a stone’s throw from the African mainland) I would say that black could possibly be nothing to do with revenge, but beauty and could have possibly also been used as it offers a stark contrast to the desert backdrop, hence more practical. Same with green. White of course would just blend in with the background and would be useless.

  69. mahmood says:

    Re(4): Tsunami

    rubbish Steve, with all due respect. I wouldn’t be so callous as to contradict the fact that there are indeed some morons like the ones you describe, them being muslim is secondary to their love of hate. that is not to say that all muslims who emigrated to the four points of the earth did so to colonise and take-over their adopted homelands. thinking like this insults the billions of peace-loving muslims and the millions of muslims who have not only love their adopted homeland, but most probably enriched it with their intricate cultural tapestry, rather than destroyed their surroundings.

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