Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
06 Jan, 2006 
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Although this is not a particular trait of Arabs in general, it is however prevalent within our world; even so called respected journalists make it a norm. Simply because they disagree with ideas proposed, or even more dangerously because those ideas ARE correct but seek to disregard and discredit them as conspiratorial.
I wonder if Mr. Jihad Al-Khazen, former editor of Al-Hayat newspaper has been paid to character assassinate The Religious Policeman (Arabic) specifically, and every dissenting voice who chooses the safety of anonymity to discuss and propagate ideas. After all, “they” have much more freedom to challenge the establishment than Mr. Al-Khazen himself has had as he attests his article in Al-Hayat of the 5th of January 2006, basing his supporting arguments on a disgruntled university student and a zealot who recently converted to Islam as de-facto credible sources to reach his conclusions. And pray how do they reach the conclusion that the Religious Policeman is not authentic? His use of the name “Farah” as a gentleman’s name, and the way that coffee is pronounced in various countries in the Arab world! Mr. Al-Khazen, with all due respect, if these are the sources you use to verify your articles you don’t belong in journalism. And before someone jumps down my throat, let me remind you that there are various names which could be used for either gender: Qamar, Shams and yes, even Farah. Did you not hear of Mohammed Farah Aidid or the poet George Farah and I am sure that given the time, I would find many more references for men whose name is Farah. Oh yes, and that other thing: if you’re an Arab you can’t possibly – or is it shouldn’t – speak English fluently! And that other oft-abused term: patriotism. He is accused of not having any empathy with normal Saudis to which I reply: hogwash. The learned gentleman did not bother to read The Religious Policeman’s posts but depended on pathetic comments which reenforced his own peculiar views on citizen journalism. Jealousy comes to mind!
That doesn’t concern me much actually, Mr. Al-Khazen has got his own opinion which he is entitled to, while I on the other hand, am entitled to completely disregard. What irks me however is this learned gentlemen should know better than to attack all anonymous bloggers and commentors as incredible simply because he doesn’t know their names. What does it matter? Shouldn’t we just concentrate on the idea that person has brought forth and evaluate it on its own merit rather than demand to know who the person is, his lineage and religious and political affiliation before we accept that the idea proposed is acceptable or otherwise? Or even merits discussion? If this is a criteria, then aren’t almost all printed authors, especially first-time published ones, anonymous? Of course they are, but we do read their books and articles and evaluate those ideas on their own merit before we reach our own individual conclusions.
Yes, some anonymity is objectionable; it is objectionable if you do have constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of expression backed up by society, tradition and unbiased judicial system. In other words if there is no threat to your life and for those who are near and dear to you. It is objectionable if it is used to hide behind while you spread hatred and indulge in personal attacks and “flaming.” In other words, cowardly use of anonymity. The Religious Policemen and others are justified in using anonymity because their lives ARE dependent on hiding their true identity, or are we naive enough to demand full disclosure if that very disclosure is going to end their lives violently and prematurely?
I personally don’t care who The Religious Policeman is in person, and I don’t even care if he is even a born-again zionist zealot. What I do care about however is that he is highlighting aspects of our culture that we generally want to sweep under a carpet and pretend that it just did not happen. I firmly believe that he (or she) is doing us – Arabs and Muslims specifically – a huge favour in unearthing those idiosyncrasies which should be addressed head-on. How else is there going to be any credible change in our societies? How else can we prevent another 15 or 150 girls from dying because they were prevented from receiving help from males simply because they were un-hijabbed? Wouldn’t a father, a husband or a son prefer to keep his female relative alive even if she was rescued completely in the nude? I would.
Hat tip: Haitham Sabbah
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Go easy on Farah, people. Remember that she’s a female writer from one of the hottest spots around. You don’t want to lose a voice like her’s.
The Joker
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
i love the religious policeman. he is a great writer and has been a catalyst for my laughter at the saudi’s backward ass views on politics, religion and society. i read him religiously. of course after i’m done reading yours mahmood. if any one doesn’t like it then they can kiss where the sun don’t shine.
your humble reader
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
It’s funny how you ignored most of what I wrote and chose to address… well none of the things I brought up. I trully applaud that. Bravo, bravo, sir.
[quote]Farah, okay, so you don’t want your dirty laundry out in the open, but rather try to fix things internally. That’s a “hello kitty” kind of logic in this day and age, my daughter.[/quote]
Ok where did I say that? Hello? I [b]translate[/b] the dirty laundry. The English stuff RP blogs about is already out in the open, or would be something he’d [b]TAKE[/b] from me. I translate assorted pieces of filth and take my camera-phone with me to college and snap pictures of whatever I may not like. Last I check that could get me expelled. Humour me, sir, where in God’s name was it that I even mentioned Saudi Arabia’s image or whatnot? Heh. Your argument smacks of weakness and clicheness.
[quote]Nothing is going to change in this area of the world without sincere and exerted efforts from us all, and even with the help of international pressure.[/quote]
And, I agree.
[quote]I care deeply about what is happening in Saudi because anything that happens there will affect me, my children, my family and my country drastically. I feel that what the Religious Policeman is doing is correct. You might disagree simply because you feel “ashamed” of the topics he discusses and comments on in his own particular way, but the situation is much grater that your hurt feelings.[/quote]
Kind sir, I hate to say this to a man the age of my father, but you are once again beating around the bush. Firstly by digressing via professing your love and affection for Saudi (which was uncalled for, by the way, as I cannot care less). Then secondly by again falsely accusing me of feeling ashamed. Where does it ever say that I’m “ashamed”? If such was the case, sir, then why was I not ashamed when it comes to other blogs and venues harshly critical of Saudi Arabia? Why was I not ashamed of Jo’s “A thought in the Kingdom of Lunacy”? Why was I not ashamed when it came to the Stan of Arabia episode of American dad? Why was I not ashamed of Ghaida’s ” Yommeyat Mudeerah fee al mamlaka al 3arabiyah al Junoonyah”? Why was I not ashamed of Uber Girl’s everyday rants, mostly about “Saudi Fucking Arabia” (her words)?
Please, do tell me, sir.
[quote]So your opposition to the Religious Policeman is without any logical basis. You have taken things personally and you shouldn’t have.[/quote]
It is funny how even the most liberal and (self-proclaimed) educated Arab males can deem a girl’s argument illogical, and surely a result of anger and emotions. There I was thinking I was being respected here, despite my sex and age. I knew it was too good to be true…
[quote]If you do care deeply about your country, and from various writings you do, then work with him and others who are leading the reforms[/quote]
If you go through out the blog, and I’d gladly reveal to you our correspondences too, the religious police man and I, you’d see that I have tried on various occasions to make his blog work [b]for[/b] Saudi (as a country and a people and not the government) and [b]not against [/b]it. But alas, it was of no use. Knowing the Saudi mentality quite well, it wholly saddens me, that his blog is actually counter productive. As I said before, knowing my people, I’m just glad they don’t frequent it. Else, boy would we have [b]alot[/b] of work to do.
[quote]Yes my dear, what he is doing WILL change things to the better, as his writing – and I say this with deep respect for you – has much more impact than yours[/quote]
It’s funny how you chose to end your literary tour de forces to both me and Ahmed with this line. I don’t get it? Was I supposed to feel insulted? Frankly, I can’t care less, so I’ll ignore that.(ps: [i]what a way to encourage the up and comin’ youngons, aye Mahmood? Bravo, once again for “caring” for the Saudi youth)[/i]
I will comment on your belief that his blog will change things for the better, you know why? Because you are yet again proving my point that you have no idea what kind of society it is you’re dealing with. That’s why. When you meet a prototype of a Saudi person (and not a liberal Shiite from the Eastern province, or a disgruntled University chick) then we’ll see what you have to say, kind sir.
Heh. Also, honestly, only when you choose to directly address every point I’d made in the previous comment, is when I’ll be able to take your retorts seriously.
- PO-ed Gaseemyah/disgruntled Uni chick. (both of which I’m loving, ps! So thanks
)
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
I agree and I hope Farah you don’t become too disheartened by these tirades (including the one I wrote) take it in your stride and live to fight another day eh? And try to be more careful when deciding to take an unwavering position.
sleepy saudi gentlemen huh? It might just stick! Well I’m glad to tell you its around 8:45 pm over here and I’m already getting ready to go to bed, so from now on its the bright-eyes and bushy-tailed saudi gentlemen
A Saudi
P.s Beautiful place Canada, I’d love to see Banff National Park.
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Calm down habibti, this is getting tiresome. I don’t want to go through everything you have written, maybe some day, but just answer me this: Do you believe in freedom of speech?
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Excuse me miss Farah, I can’t help but notice that RP’s issue always gets sidetracked down the same alley… One of the comments said RP didn’t pinpoint the exact village Mo abdulwahab started from.. I mean who gives a flying Banana if he was supposed to mention Uyeyna rather than Qaseem, like Unaizah and Braidah are totally different galaxies? My family is from Qaseem and I used to go to Braida every eid (not for a while though), and I have never seen such a homogenous society like saudi… so I really don’t know where you’re coming from when “Mahmood proves your point that he doesnt know the saudi society” which is similar to the rebuttal technique Al Hayat used against RP which is you’re not really Saudi so you can’t comment.
Excuse me for saying this, but you dis-associate people that criticize Saudi.
The Joker
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
To format text in your answers, you can go to the HTML cheat sheet in Webmonkey, and look under “Links.” You want to use the first one, “Creates a hyperlink”. Just copy and paste the code, then copy and paste your link over the “URL”. Then insert the text you want hyperlinked between the >< characters. You can check to see if it looks right by clicking on the “Preview” button below the Comment entry field you are typing in.
You might check out the bold and italic tags under the “Text Tags” section. They come in handy, too.
Once you have a taste for it, go enroll in a simple website class. You’ll be surprised at how easy all of this stuff is.
Steve
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Mahmood
Thanks for your support, and bringing some intelligent comment to a subject that is otherwise in dire need.
Alhamedi
The Religious Policeman
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Farooha,
That was a very interesting, juicy, and satisfying rant. And all delivered in American idiom, which surprises me when delivered by a chick in Riyadh. What exactly is the name of and link to your website? I’m a bored Westerner, though not living in my parent’s basement. I’m sure you wouldn’t mind me dropping by your website. Everybody here in Mahmood’s Den love it when I drop in.
Curious,
Steve
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Much obliged Mahmood!
………………………………………
Gandhi’s’ method of non-violent resistance works if your advisory is civilized, it does not work if you are being farked down by Wabbling Nazism etc.
Augerwell-
I agree, an oft-mentioned truism is that under Stalin or Mao non-violent resistance would be near impossible- take Tiananmen Square for example. In fairness though the British rule Gandhi had to deal with wasn’t always benign and kiddie gloves were not always used, the Armistar Massacre where 400 men women and children were killed is a case in point. Thankfully in Saudi we have yet to have a “cultural revolutionâ€? that wipes out 5 % of our population nor are there gulags set up to imprison our intelligentsia. Its still grim-but not totalitarian dictatorship grim, more over one of the strongest reasons why non-violent resistance works is that it shames the regime into reawakening its conscience and these days the way the media can take hold of a story and cover all its angles, well I’m sure we can nudge our ruler’s troubled minds in the right direction.
…………………………………………………………………………………………
Now Farooha after getting a few hours of sleep back in me I think I can pick up my rapier and continue our little bout.
HOWEVER, do you think that upon setting eyes on the comments he gets (Complete with the Omar,” “Abdul” and “Rich Saudi” tags that all Saudis are under the threat of being oversimplified with) do you think that ANY normal Saudi, let alone the untravelled, not too light-hearted majority,would stand up and clap? Of course not.
I’ll assume for a second that this wasn’t a rhetorical question. Now I sincerely believe that satirists have an important role to play in every society. In different circumstances Al-Ahmdei could have been the Scott Adams of Saudi Arabia- I can just see him lampooning the “pointy-haired� monarch! Would any Saudi stand up and clap? Mmm maybe a few, maybe none but I think you’re missing the point. The day us Saudis can swallow his sort of humour with its large portion of bitter cod liver oil, is a day we can be proud of. Only that we can say, yes, we’ve matured as a society to the point where we are self-confident enough to take criticism in our stride and maybe even laugh at our own idiosyncrasies. As is stand sadly we can do neither. Any voices of dissent are swiftly and harshly dealt with and not just by the authorities but by our own self-censorship.
Do you not remember what happened when Karen Hughes made her way to Jeddah? Pride, my dear, we are a people of pride
Well I remember hearing about it thru your site no less, I’ve just googled it and have gone thru the [url=http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0510/S00251.htm]transcript[/url] .
America is trying to force its own opinion on us; the change will come from us,” Assassa added. Chamane Rahim, a French-educated social sciences professor, explained that the students don’t cover their heads in class “as we’re all women.” True, Saudi women still can’t drive “but it will come soon, Insha-Allah (God willing)”, she said. Aljazeera
Touché Madam Rahim it should come from us and it would be our own “internal problem.� trouble is we’ve somehow contracted the nasty habit of exporting terrorists. Suddenly it isn’t just our problem anymore, the whole world is involved – no man is in island entire in itself, and neither is our country. Do I think that the American foreign policy towards us is dictated by the goodness of their hearts??? Are there intentions solely altruistic?? In my opinion: Not a chance! But in Fairness who’s ever are? Instead of moaning about how biased they are how their media is always skewed against us why not take what they have to offer (a functioning model of a liberal democracy) and then build on it? Add a dash of cumin powder, a few bay leaves, some coriander a drop of “shutta� and voila! We’ve turned it to something our culture can stomach!
Well gotta run, little Amé needs to take her walk and I’ve yet to teach her how to hold her lead in her mouth or use a pooper-scooper �
Salam!
A Saudi
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
You’re more than welcome.
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Another very interesting and insightful post.
[quote]A Saudi: Well in my personal opinion most Saudis suffer from a form of cultural schizophrenia and in varying degrees. We were in a time capsule for such a long time that when the modern world caught up with us we simply didn’t have time to consolidate our religious beliefs and traditions with the new facts on the ground.[/quote]
While I agree with your interpretation, I don’t agree that this was the only course of action. The Japanese were caught in their own time capsule when the US opened relations with them. When they realized how far behind the modern world they were, the Japanese decided to rapidly adapt and incorporate as much of modernity into their culture as they could stand. The Saudis, on the other, decided to minimize their accommodation to the modern world and isolate those areas where accommodation was unavoidable.
Ridiculing Saudi culture serves a good purpose by prodding Saudis to change. If Saudis face contempt for their many flaws when they interact with the civilized world, it will prompt them to make changes to gain respect. America has tried the other course of carefully respecting Saudi culture which has proven to be catastrophic. Left to themselves, the Saudis will never change.
So the Religious Policeman should proceed apace to publicize the flaws of Saudi Arabia. My hope is that he inspires other Saudis to emulate him to create a reform movement.
Steve
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
A Saudi,
I’m very happy to hear that there are excellent things happenning in Saudi Arabia though I am at a loss to know what they possibly could be.
What I do know is that Saudi Arabia is engaged in a covert war against America in which they preach hatred for America, encourage their young men to kill Americans, fund their jihad against America, and kill thousands of Americans. While the Saudi government protests association with the Wahhabi jihad against America in English, they endorse it in Arabic all around the world and even in the US. The Saudis send hate literature to mosques across the US, preach hate against the US in Saudi-funded madrassas right here in Washington, and even have their embassy hand out pamphlets in Arabic to Muslim tourists reminding them of their religious duty to hate America and Americans.
It is very clear that Saudi Arabia is an enemy of America. It is also clear that Saudi Arabia is conducting a foreign policy of murderous religious imperialism around the world. In all too many bomb blasts and beheadings around the world, there is Saudi patronage. This is not sophistry, but reality.
Saudis have declared themselves the enemy of America and all that it stands for. I am being objective to clearly acknowledge it.
Steve
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
[quote]A Saudi: “Do I think that the American foreign policy towards us is dictated by the goodness of their hearts??? Are there intentions solely altruistic?? In my opinion: Not a chance! But in Fairness who’s ever are?”[/quote]
You must admit that American policy toward Saudi Arabia has been enlightened. We did not conquer Saudi Arabia once Americans found oil there and make Saudis into slaves like the Belgians did in the Congo. Saudi Arabia was not made into an American colony. We accepted your culture, though repellent to us, and operated so as to respect and preserve it. President Roosevelt came to negotiate with Abdul Aziz as his equal, not an inferior. That’s quite different than the British treatment of Indian monarchs. We made a fair business deal with the Saudis where basically we did all the work and they reaped the bulk of the profits from their oil.
Now sit back and ask yourself, when has a world power ever treated a small, weak nation so generously? Any other nation would have stolen the oil and tossed the Saudis scraps.
Had the Saudis been wise and had normal human instincts, they would have used their relationship with America to leap into the modern world, not just physically but culturally. In a country with no natural resources other than oil, it is obvious that an economy must be developed that adds value to imported raw materials, as Japan has done. A desert nation’s best bet is to become a information economy, processing data into knowledge. That requires a massive investment in developing human capital. The KSA had the petrobucks to make it happen.
Instead, most of the wealth was squandered satsifying the rulers’ venal desires and indulging the clergy’s worst instincts. The university system was wasted producing Islamic studies degrees, a degree worse than worthless, poisoning the human capital. The Saudi culture resisted knowledge from the outside, which dooms them when the oil runs out. Worst of all, the Saudis hate most their most generous benefactor and defender, making war on the country which placed them in luxury. It would be difficult to find a baser act of ingratitude in human history.
That said, it seems safer to trust yourself to American intentions than Saudi intentions. There is altruism in American intentions. Saudi intentions are ultimately treacherous. Americans believe in win-win relationships. Saudis only believe in win-lose.
Steve
Re(1): Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
First of all thanks Steve for the info! They’re starting a beginners web-design class at the Dublin Business School in the evenings at the end of this month and I’ve already made enquiries, hopefully it will turn out to be useful.
Now I still stand with what I’ve said [quote] are their intentions solely altruistic?? [/quote]
Well is it? Please answer this, is it SOLELY altruistic? And I stress the first word. In my opinion it isn’t nor of course is it hell bent on destroying us either. The US is a country that looks out for its own interest like any other- No surprise there.
[quote] Now sit back and ask yourself, when has a world power ever treated a small, weak nation so generously? Any other nation would have stolen the oil and tossed the Saudis scraps. [/quote]
I hate to be stickler and it doesn’t really matter but get your facts straight, its the size of Western Europe and a bit more than a fifth of the size of the US it ranks number 15 in area. If you meant that the population was small I concede your point.
Now the potential of Saudi oil was only really assessed in the late 30′s and after WWII most colonial countries lost their taste in conquest anyway. I think neither the US nor any other country would have:
[quote] stolen the oil and tossed the Saudis scraps.[/quote]
It would have been an absolute PR disaster, invading a sovereign country that was a founding member of the United Nations? And which happens to hold the holiest sites of a major world religion? Not a pretty Headline.
[quote] Had the Saudis been wise and had normal human instincts, they would have used their relationship with America to leap into the modern world, not just physically but culturally. [/quote]
Did we squander a huge amount of money that we will one day regret?? Of course we have! We already are regretting it. But in fairness we could have done worse, 2 years ago I was talking to a gentleman from Nigeria – a graduate from the London school of Economics- and he heaped praise on how astute we were with our oil money compared to his compatriots, I was personally caught by surprised, I had always thought that the whole world saw us as the biggest money wasters in god’s green earth but there you have it.
[quote] Worst of all, the Saudis hate most their most generous benefactor and defender [/quote]
Defender I agree. But benefactor??
benefactor [bénni faktər]
(plural benefactors)
noun
financial supporter: somebody who aids a cause, institution, or individual, especially with a gift of money
Funny I thought the when we sold a valuable commodity-our oil- at reasonable prices and got hard currency in return its called ” TRADE” not “AID”. During the Cold War Saudi was the United States personal petty cash box. I remember reading of an instance where a phone call to Riyadh quickly lead to Saudi Arabia Buying 100s of tons of Polish Ham and donating it to (I think) Czechoslovakia, a bit ironic eh? I hate to mention this but since you brought it up, do you have any idea how mach aid Saudi gave to the victims of Katrina? [url=http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3241]100,000,000 Dollars [/url]
. Again I hate to rub salt into this but who’s the [url=http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=4302068] benefactor [/url] now??
Am I grateful for what the US has done to my country in the past?? You Bet! Even within my own family; my mom, dad and brother were all educated there. My dad never stops speaking about the great time he had at Berkley and how nice the people were to him. But does that make me a Vassal to your country? Here’s my reply- A loud and defiant “NO”. I hope that one day we can help assist building your country as you did ours (although god knows we invest a helluva a lot in the states- circa. $ [url=http://www.saudi-american-forum.org/Newsletters/SAF_Essay_22.htm] 420 BILLION [/url] in the US in 2003- that’s a lot of jobs. )but I’m sure we can do more. In the other hand we all are “treacherous” and “ungracious” so I’m obviously making all this up. What do you think?
A Saudi
P.s I just noticed another comment you wrote:
[quote] I’m very happy to hear that there are excellent things happenning in Saudi Arabia though I am at a loss to know what they possibly could be. [/quote]
Well the election of 2 women in the Jeddah board of Commerce and also that of a woman in the union of Saudi Engineers. A lot of reformers have also been released since Abdullah took power, granted they’re baby steps but it is good news nonetheless, and as a Saudi it gives me hope.
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
A Saudi and Joker:
I have nothing against the man personally. Must I scream this out? Whether he is Saudi or not, whether he likes Qaseem or not, all of which were [b]never[/b] the issue. The one thing I’ve been ranting on about is that it is the likes of such a blog that will sooner or later get us little struggling ones blocked and will hence hinder any real reform, it would be such a shame. We’re getting so close. Let me highlite a previous experience that has taught me my lesson on dealing with our society.
[i]A Saudi with all due respect to you, you’re no average Saudi, I really wish the Saudi prototype to elevate one day so that it reflects gentlemen like yourself but, alas reality has it that it will not in a long, long while, sigh.[/i]
[i]A joker, the debate was not about Gaseem to begin with it was the kind author of this blog who brougt it back in[/i]
Ok the story, and then I’m off, (long road trip ahead of me)
I got in big trouble last year and almost failed a class for merely discussing (and questioning) our need for the mandatory Islamic “Salam 101″ classes in a debate. I found the material taught to be too politically-oriented (deeply appreciative of the Ikhwan movement for example) and outright intolerant (this I’m sure, is not news to many) and I used Dr. Hamza Al Muzaini’s articles as references -among many more. The lecturer had asked for something controversial.. [i]heh so much for that.[/i] I wasn’t spoken to after the debate, by any of my class-mates for the rest of that semester, besides one girl who happened to be an Egyptian-Saudi (mitjansah) and another who was a shiite and who couldn’t care less because she didnt even believe in half the stuff she was forced to learn. The rest, nah.. Many kind and charitable do-gooders even went as far as asking the teacher not to give me the grade at all, because that would after all be haram. I remember a girl sobbingly calling me and telling me that,” if you pass now, the money you make with this degree would be haram, do you want to be making haram money, Farah?” It was not a good experience for me, esp since this was the young, the hip of the nation. And plus, that grade was one I needed very badly in order to maintain my gpa, hell, in order to pass. I ended up giving another presentation, one explaining that I was merely acting; and that I would never really say anything so horrid, just doing it for the grade. The teacher asked me to do this so she could give me the grade with “an eased conscience”.
I remember my instinct telling me to “stick to what I believe in, no matter what society may think, we must face the truth sooner or later,how long will we live in this bubble?I will speak my mind, how will we ever progress, otherwise?” and whatever else of such naive and cliche bits. But my father gave me words of wisdom, I’ll never forget. He said:
“Well, habeebti, then you’d only be a failed languages student with no friends. What good to society would that be?” He said that right now, things will not go your way, and the majority will not listen to you. And it is the majority that has the power. You must then, appeal to the majority not repel them, from your friends to even your teachers. Appeal to them so that they trust you and so that anything said by you in the future would be taken into consideration. Easy does it. You may have to lie, you may have to connive, but who was ever honest? Desperate times call for desperate measures. Soon, it will not only be you. Soon it’ll be you and many many more.
Alhamedi in some ways reminds me of myself that year, he is only lucky enough to not be in a class filled with angry Saudi girls…. I fear the day the angry saudis of his story find their way to his blog though (and not the one or two token “saudis” in the current situation)… I fear the day that the right to express myself will be taken away from me just as quickly as it was given to me.
Shewolf, I don’t need your sympathy. But I’m a polite person, so I will thank you.
-Disgruntled Uni Chick, Farah.
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Farah, this is so illogical that I don’t know where to begin. I suggest you re-evaluate your own beliefs, because what you said in your comment is an invitation to disaster, rather than progress.
Have a lovely Eid.
Re(1): Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
[quote]While I agree with your interpretation, I don’t agree that this was the only course of action.[/quote]
Nor do I, there are myriads of ways of how a group of people react to extraordinary social pressures. I’m not quite sure why you used the Japanese as an example it’s a case of apples and oranges;
Saudi Arabia never had that defining moment when Commodore Perry steamed into Edo harbour, instead we were courted by the different powers which further compounded the idea that we were a “special” nation and hence a “special” case. Nor did we have an enemy like Russia next door to contend with, the spheres of power around us were either too small to matter or too formidable (e.g. the Brits) to even dream of attacking.
We lacked Japan’s centralized leadership-at a whim the Meiji regime decided to turn an agrarian society to an industrial one in a few decades, and even then it caused a lot of upheaval. Last but not least I’m surprised you didn’t see how you set yourself up for a huge blunder:- After all’s been said about Japan’s miraculous entry into the modern world what pray I ask did it also lead to? 10,000,000 deaths, after the U.S.S.R, China, and Nazi Germany, Japan has killed the largest number of people using there shiny new modern weapons at any one time period. Steve I would rather have us wallow in mud slinging shite at each other than be the cause of death and destruction for so many people.
In an earlier post you a asked me to admit if the U.S policy towards us had been enlightened. I don’t have to admit that, I know it for a fact and for that I am grateful. What I am worried about is it’s present and future policies.
A Saudi
[Modified by: A Saudi (kabourmi) on January 08, 2006 11:02 AM]
Re(2): Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
[quote]A Saudi: I’m not quite sure why you used the Japanese as an example it’s a case of apples and oranges; ….[/quote]
Both Saudi Arabia and Japan voluntarily chose isolation from the world, particularly the West, as part of a supremacist philosophy until it became unavoidable to deal with Westerners.
[quote]A Saudi: Saudi Arabia never had that defining moment when Commodore Perry steamed into Edo harbour, instead we were courted by the different powers which further compounded the idea that we were a “special” nation and hence a “special” case. [/quote]
It’s true that Perry introduced America to Japan with the implicit military threat of steam-powered warships presented within the velvet glove of diplomacy. America’s introduction to the Saudis was far more benign, presented in the form of medical power, and proceded in smaller, polite steps. It is well worth dwelling on your observation that the Saudis were courted, not conquered.
[quote]A Saudi: “Nor did we have an enemy like Russia next door to contend with, the spheres of power around us were either too small to matter or too formidable (e.g. the Brits) to even dream of attacking.”[/quote]
While it seems like picking nits, the Saudis did rub up against the Ottoman Empire, often violently with the help of T.E. Lawrence et al.
[quote]A Saudi: We lacked Japan’s centralized leadership-at a whim the Meiji regime decided to turn an agrarian society to an industrial one in a few decades, and even then it caused a lot of upheaval. [/quote]
Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud’s word seemed to be enough to provide safe passage of oil exploring infidels to pass safely through the most hostile parts of Arabia, which implies centralized power. His successors seem to have been able to push progress forward when they felt like it. For example, finding ways to evade Koranic injunctions against human imagery when bringing television to the kingdom.
[quote]A Saudi: “Last but not least I’m surprised you didn’t see how you set yourself up for a huge blunder:- After all’s been said about Japan’s miraculous entry into the modern world what pray I ask did it also lead to? 10,000,000 deaths, after the U.S.S.R, China, and Nazi Germany, Japan has killed the largest number of people using there shiny new modern weapons at any one time period. Steve I would rather have us wallow in mud slinging shite at each other than be the cause of death and destruction for so many people.”[/quote]
Japan’s aggression was Japan’s mistake, not America’s. Technology is morally neutral. It is your use of it which makes it moral or immoral. The US relationship with Japan progressed normally for seventy year’s after Perry’s trip to Edo. Japan was an ally in WWI and seemed headed toward democracy in the 1920s, when its military began taking over the government and steering it to catastrophe. It was unforseeable in 1853 that Japanese yet unborn would attack American territory not yet acquired with machines not yet imagined nearly a century later.
I don’t see where bringing isolated countries into the modern world is a blunder. What is the alternative? As technology improves the lines of communication, it is impossible to remain isolated. It is impossible for modernity not to propagate itself. No nation can remain an island.
[quote]A Saudi: “In an earlier post you a asked me to admit if the U.S policy towards us had been enlightened. I don’t have to admit that, I know it for a fact and for that I am grateful.”[/quote]
What a pity that you are in such a minority among your people. What a shame that such enlightenment was not reciprocated.
[quote]A Saudi: “What I am worried about is it’s present and future policies.”[/quote]
It is a legitimate worry now that the Sep 11 attacks have revealed the illegitimate Saudi hostility to America. I doubt Saudi Arabia will ever enjoy a more positive relationship with the US than it did before it dispatched fifteen people to murder three thousand of our people. Were it not for that, the Saudis would have eluded the close scrutiny of the American people and much of the worst of its culture and religion would have gone unnoticed. Now, all of that is being uncovered and presented to its detriment. The years since Sep 11 have been shocking in its revelations of the depth of the hate of Wahhabis for the world and America in particular, the degree to which this has been institutionalized and supported by the Saudi government, the distance which this religious hate has been projected around the world, and the amount of Wahhabi penetration into the US. It seems sure that the relationship of America to the Saudi Arabia can only decline from this point forward and rightfully so.
Sep 11 and all its subsequent revelations have convinced me that Saudi Arabia and most Saudis are enemies of America, and of the world. I’m convinced that Wahhabism is a cancer on humankind and Saudi Arabia a tumor on the global body politic. Neither can be reformed. They must be extirpated. I hope that America and its allies turn their foreign policy toward the dismantling of the corrupt Saudi regime and the extermination of the leadership of the Wahhabi clergy so as to end their religious war on the world. I’d like to see the “Saudi” separated from the “Arabia” and the Wahhabis sent back to the desert where they can preach their hate to the sand flies. Perhaps Saudi Arabia would be better governed as a province of Jordan.
I would be unhappy if US policy in the future did not cause Saudis to worry.
Steve
Re(2): Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Steve, your sunk mate.
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Mohammed!!
U made me laugh…
coz I felt like you were trying to teach me some stuff about Saudi Arabia while the points I raised were only to question the intentions of Mr Khazin article.
When I talked about liking mr religous policeman .. I think I have the right to either like him or not ..
Yet.. that doesn’t say anything about agreeing with what he said ..
For me .. the 2 are not 1!.
My answers to my own earlier raised questions are:
1) I somewhat disagree with u that nothing good is happening in Saudi Arabia .. but yet .. I think if we want to change we got to talk about it.. get our very dirty laundry out .. and yet .. start doing something about it .. coz otherwise… yes it will be painful .. but will keep being so .. unless we put a solution to each single problem we face!.
2)I blog myself.. and I usually don’t write about the best things happening either to me .. or in the world !!
I usually .. right or wrong .. not sure.. write about things that bother me ..
3) I, personally, don’t give a damn about if he is a Saudi or not !!
If he is making things up .. then he shall be corrected ..
if he is saying the truth .. and nothing but the truth .. then we.. as a society and people.. got to work on these things .. fix them .. and.. end of story!
If he is mixing some of this.. and some of that..
well.. we got to have the same above mix .. and go on!
I don’t wanna get into this Qaseemi thing discussion .. but it is not fair to just point out that one area is the reason for all evil!.. coz it is not!. I am not from there.. I almost never been there.. but it is part of my country .. and as it might gave us bad stuff.. I am sure it gave us some pretty good stuff.. and will keep so.. just like any other area .. any other place!.
One more point about the religuos police man blog .. and here I am only raising some questions ..
Do we .. Saudi Arabia.. need change that a)comes from outside … b)forced by outside or some of a&b??
Do we .. Saudi Arabia … need to create the change without our youth .. which mostly doesn’t speak much of English .. and will have hard time reading the police man blog .. and after that have some questions up their heads afterwards.. so in case they really care .. they will try to carry on the change and make 2moro better!!
I have an exam in couple of hours.. so guess that is enough
Happy Eid 4 ALL.
Ahmed
Re(2): Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
[quote]A Saudi: “First of all thanks Steve for the info! They’re starting a beginners web-design class at the Dublin Business School in the evenings at the end of this month and I’ve already made enquiries, hopefully it will turn out to be useful.”[/quote]
You’re welcome. A class makes it easier but my prediction is that at the end of it you will feel, as I did, that it was so easy that you could have picked up a book and taught yourself, if only you’d known what book to pick up. Good luck.
[quote]A Saudi: “Well is it? Please answer this, is it SOLELY altruistic? And I stress the first word. In my opinion it isn’t nor of course is it hell bent on destroying us either. The US is a country that looks out for its own interest like any other- No surprise there.”[/quote]
Nice try to trap me, but I won’t endorse an absolute statement. What Americans know, and Saudis have not learned, is that relationships are best not pursued as a zero sum game, where we can win only if you lose. Relationships of every kind are optimized when both parties allow the other to benefit. Distrust imposes costs in information and predictability. The best relationships require a certain amount of altruism on both sides.
[quote]A Saudi: “It would have been an absolute PR disaster, invading a sovereign country that was a founding member of the United Nations? And which happens to hold the holiest sites of a major world religion? Not a pretty Headline.”[/quote]
These are all manageable problems for a ruthless imperialist power.
[quote]A Saudi: “Did we squander a huge amount of money that we will one day regret?? Of course we have! We already are regretting it. But in fairness we could have done worse, 2 years ago I was talking to a gentleman from Nigeria – a graduate from the London school of Economics- and he heaped praise on how astute we were with our oil money compared to his compatriots, I was personally caught by surprised, I had always thought that the whole world saw us as the biggest money wasters in god’s green earth but there you have it.”[/quote]
You’re setting the bar awfully low.
[quote]A Saudi: “Funny I thought the when we sold a valuable commodity-our oil- at reasonable prices and got hard currency in return its called ” TRADE” not “AID”. During the Cold War Saudi was the United States personal petty cash box. … do you have any idea how mach aid Saudi gave to the victims of Katrina? 100,000,000 Dollars. Again I hate to rub salt into this but who’s the benefactor now??”[/quote]
America was a benefactor to Saudi Arabia by transferring knowledge to it. For example, by teaching them how to run all that technology we sold them. We taught you how to run an airline and even how to control your money with modern financial controls. Whenever the Saudis demanded that the Americans set up a school or build a road or electrify a city or string phone lines, they cheerfully did so. If we wanted to suck all the capital we could out of the KSA, we would have held on to those utilities as monopolies and kept the Saudis ignorant and dependent so they could not run their own affairs. We chose the more enlightened course.
[quote]A Saudi: “Am I grateful for what the US has done to my country in the past?? You Bet! Even within my own family; my mom, dad and brother were all educated there. My dad never stops speaking about the great time he had at Berkley ….”[/quote]
Berkeley! I suspect that’s the root of the problem. He’s not wearing a tie-dyed dishdasha around the house, is he?
[quote]A Saudi: “… and how nice the people were to him. But does that make me a Vassal to your country? Here’s my reply- A loud and defiant “NO”.”[/quote]
Nobody demanded Saudis become American vassals, Mr. Hyperventilator. What I expect is that when we do Saudis right they do not reciprocate by doing us wrong. The humans in most of the world repay kindness with kindness rather than with murder. The Saudis would do well to return the good will America has extended to it rather than snuff it out with treachery.
[quote]A Saudi: “I hope that one day we can help assist building your country as you did ours (although god knows we invest a helluva a lot in the states- circa. $ 420 BILLION in the US in 2003- that’s a lot of jobs. )but I’m sure we can do more. In the other hand we all are “treacherous” and “ungracious” so I’m obviously making all this up. What do you think?[/quote]
The Saudis invest so much in America because it is the best and safest investment, just like investors from Japan and England. Many Saudis also invest in America so that they will have a refuge outside the KSA come the Wahhabi revolution. Even the PLO invests its money in America and they don’t seem pro-American at all. So I’m not persuaded that Saudis invest in America for reasons beyond self interest.
What you should work for is a day when all that Saudi money can be invested in Saudi Arabia because it features an entrepreneurial environment that encourages private initiative and a legal system that protects private investment. I’d work on whipping KSA into shape first. We’ll let you know if we need any help from Saudi Arabia.
[quote]A Saudi: “Well the election of 2 women in the Jeddah board of Commerce and also that of a woman in the union of Saudi Engineers. A lot of reformers have also been released since Abdullah took power, granted they’re baby steps but it is good news nonetheless, and as a Saudi it gives me hope.”[/quote]
You’re more of an optimist than me. It looks like Abdullah trying to ingratiate himself with the people as he formally assumes the throne. The elected women appear to be tokens to appease Western critics and internal reformers.
Steve
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
[quote]A Saudi: “P.s Beautiful place Canada, I’d love to see Banff National Park.”[/quote]
Make sure you take some No Doz with you.
Steve
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
[quote]-PO-ed Gismanjyah chick: “(oh yes and the little encounter you had with Steve is just one of the many hate-ridden assertions you’d expect to find on the said Religious police…. um… man(?) blog’s comment section. e.g.: comments to thread titled “getting to know you”)”[/quote]
My dear, when Saudis kill three thousand innocent people in America for their contemptible religion and their government endorses a continuation of this religious war against America to the entire Muslim world, that inspires bad feelings. Saudi Arabia and Saudis would make a better impression on Americans if they did not call for our deaths and the destruction of our country. That seems a fairly reasonable request, wouldn’t you agree?
Steve
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
[quote]A Saudi: “Hahaha god I haven’t laughed so hard in a while, Tie-dyed dishdasha !? (We call them thoub) Brilliant! There was actually a very popular Ramadhan sketch show that introduced the concept a while back. I’m sure the “gulfersâ€? reading this would recognize “tash ma tashâ€?. In fairness now he was there in the 50’s so I’m not sure how liberal leaning it was back then.”[/quote]
Well, if he was there in the 50s he may have avoided the major contamination of the 60s, though he may bear watching. I’d check his desk drawers for love beads just to make sure.
I’ve seen snippets of “tash ma tash” on a Tom Friedman documentary.
[quote]A Saudi: “I had to google that term- “No Doz” it sounds lethal! I assume you meant so I avoid veering off a ledge? Well I’ll tell you what I was in the Grand Tetons and Lake Tahoe last summer and there were some hairy moments up there. One particular gap even lacked side railings, the logic behind that was there wasn’t enough purchase for them to be staked in the ground so why create a false sense of security… scary or what?”[/quote]
No Doz is an over the counter medication you take to stay awake, caffeine pills. Very popular with students and truck drivers. You’ll need it in Canada because it’s such a boring country unless you want to trap fur, hang out with lumberjacks, or touch a moose. I believe that “Canada” in the original Indian language means “the land that snores.”
If you want to do something scary, try driving down the river ravine road to Sacramento late at night after playing blackjack at Lake Tahoe. It gets pretty sporty when you hit the fog of the valley.
Steve
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Hahaha god I haven’t laughed so hard in a while, Tie-dyed dishdasha !? (We call them thoub) Brilliant! There was actually a very popular Ramadhan sketch show that introduced the concept a while back. I’m sure the “gulfers� reading this would recognize “tash ma tash�. In fairness now he was there in the 50’s so I’m not sure how liberal leaning it was back then.
I had to google that term- “No Doz” it sounds lethal! I assume you meant so I avoid veering off a ledge? Well I’ll tell you what I was in the Grand Tetons and Lake Tahoe last summer and there were some hairy moments up there. One particular gap even lacked side railings, the logic behind that was there wasn’t enough purchase for them to be staked in the ground so why create a false sense of security… scary or what?
[quote] Both Saudi Arabia and Japan voluntarily chose isolation from the world, particularly the West, as part of a supremacist philosophy until it became unavoidable to deal with Westerners. [/quote]
I would disagree even with that point. Japan has been distinctly independent for well over 1200 years, while the Arabian Peninsula was ruled from Damascus, Baghdad, and Istanbul for about as long. The choice of being isolationist or having any kind of independent philosophy was moot.
[quote] While it seems like picking nits, the Saudis did rub up against the Ottoman Empire, often violently with the help of T.E. Lawrence et al. [/quote]
Well actually I believe those were the Hashamites who later settled in Iraq and Jordan, but yes the Sauds did wrest the Al-Ah’asa region from there grip. Unlike the situation with Japan and Russia it wasn’t a match between equals that could cause an arm race and as a by-product rapid modernization. No, it was more like a war of attrition where the objective was to simply show the Ottomans that the Arabian Peninsula was more hassle than it was worth, the same could be said with Khedivi-Egypt’s attempt to re-conquer Arabia for the Turks.
[quote] Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud’s word seemed to be enough to provide safe passage of oil exploring infidels to pass safely through the most hostile parts of Arabia, which implies centralized power. [/quote]
I still think that it doesn’t compare with the Japanese situation, I mean for the love of God with them it went to the extent where the main religion centred on the belief that the Emperor was a deity. While in the other hand Ibn Saud had to contend with provinces that had only recently been amalgamated or annexed. Its also noteworthy to point out that even till now in many places tribal loyalty comes above anything even the country, you can just imagine what the situation was like 70 years ago.
[quote] Japan’s aggression was Japan’s mistake, not America’s. (…..)I don’t see where bringing isolated countries into the modern world is a blunder. What is the alternative?[/quote]
Of course it was Japan’s mistake but you used that country as model of successful modernization and so invited criticism. And as to your second point it seems to me that whenever an isolated society is force fed modernity- be it Native Americans, Aborigines or the Kalahari Bushmen; the results are deplorable. Its just human nature, it takes time to adapt and incorporate the old with the new. I’m not arguing against bringing those societies into the modern world but rather the method.
[quote] What a pity that you are in such a minority among your people. What a shame that such enlightenment was not reciprocated.[/quote]
Thank you for the backhanded compliment (forgive me if I’m cynical) but I can assure you although we might be a minority It’s a growing and sizable one that is exerting more and more influence every day.
[quote] The Saudis invest so much in America because it is the best and safest investment…. [/quote]
Ok let’s put the investment aside from now but what about the 100,000,000 in cash and the free oil for the victims of Hurricane Katrina? What’s your opinion concerning that? I know there were obviously ulterior motives but it was a fine gesture nonetheless.
[quote] America was a benefactor to Saudi Arabia by transferring knowledge to it. For example, by teaching them how to run all that technology we sold them (…) They cheerfully did so [/quote]
Ah so that’s what you meant, well yes then I completely agree with you. Very early on Aramco set up schools, housing, hospitals in the Eastern province and started training Saudis and sending them abroad but as you referred to Game Theory earlier there were ulterior motives besides the philanthropic; it was a great way to keep nationalization at bay and a healthy well educated workforce is a productive one I refer to “Inside the Mirageâ€? by Lippman page 139 “It [The Ford Foundation] first considered working in Saudi Arabia in response to a proposal from Aramco in the early 1950’s. Aramco was under pressure to provide schools for Arab children, and as usual, was reluctant to take responsibilities unrelated to the oil businessâ€? it doesn’t quite paint the picture of the ever willing and “cheerfulâ€? philanthropist. The Ford foundation-a charitable one- by the way did a magnificent job in putting our finances in order and providing us with a working bureaucracy. As to teaching the Saudis how to use the technology we bought for the US, well isn’t that the job of any good vendor? Imagine handing a customer a shiny new gizmo without the instruction manual, they’ll quickly get frustrated by it and simply avoid your next product. It just good business sense making sure that the customer can successfully operate the product and hence happy with it. Anyway I’m pretty sure we paid for that service a lot of the times.
Now we come to the less savoury aspect of this transfer of knowledge. OPM-SANG or the Program Manager-Saudi Arabian National Guard, I quote Lippman again, page 286 “The National Guard is an internal paramilitary security force, created in 1956 and commanded since 1962 by Prince Abdullah (…) There has been surprisingly little debate in Washington ,considering the National Guard’s role as a domestic enforcer of a regime often described as autocratic and corrupt.� Why is that Steve? Why? The US Material Army Command built the guard ground up practically from scratch and this is the same National Guard that crushed one Shiite uprising after the other. Lest you accuse me of being biased I was raised up a Sunni but that’s immaterial. I don’t think there’s anything concerning the US foreign policy towards my country that saddens me more than this. How can a freedom loving people export such a repressive tool to a regime that it knows will be used to stifle the freedom of others.
[quote] You’re more of an optimist than me. It looks like Abdullah trying to ingratiate himself with the people as he formally assumes the throne. [/quote]
Believe me I’m not at all razzled-dazzled by our new beloved king… If Abdullah wanted to impress me he’d abdicate tomorrow and call general election, or at least declare Saudi Arabia a constitutional monarchy, consolidating the sprawling royal family to his immediate one in the process and then withdrawing to a purely ceremonial role. I personally think this is the only choice he has if he wants to ensure the ultimate continuity of the Saudi monarchy.
A Saudi
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Well said, again, and this is very true also of all monarchist regimes in the whole region and the Arab world. We have a start with Morocco, and stuttering start in Jordan. Bahrain would like to consider itself so, but we have a long way to go before we can be regarded as such.
Re(3): Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
[quote]America’s introduction to the Saudis was far more benign, presented in the form of medical power[/quote]
To clarify this introduction was done by private Americans with no Government support.
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Hi,
I never looked at Religious Policeman until this post, which kind of supports Joker’s argument that the criticisms will actually help the blog. I found the site to be very interesting and well-written, but I just want to say this in support of the critics of the site:
Yes, of course, it’s wrong to blast the messenger instead of the message because that is an ad hominem argument and therefore inherintly illogical. BUT, if the person claims to be something that he/she is not and there is sufficient evidence to prove this, then it is not illogical to try to discredit him. I’m not making any judgements about Religious Policeman (and in fact, some arguments against him are very illogical, such as his perfect English; I am also like a native-speaker, as are many other people I know) but if it is somehow proven that he was lying about his identity, then that calls into question his credibility.
Tariq Khonji
http://www.tariqkhonji.com
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Tariq
I know more than one person who is a citizen of say country X who does not speak or speaks very little of his native language and at the same time speaks PERFECT English. Despite being born and lived there for a good many years. I also know more than one Bahraini who speaks English so well that is you didn’t know they where Bahraini you would swear they had grown up and liven in the US or the UK. One of these Bahraini’s is fluent in Arabic and the other isn’t at all. This despite being born and raised in Bahrain. So I don’t find that arguement logical myself.
Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
“So I don’t find that arguement logical myself.”
Excuse me, were you trying to argue the point with me or were you agreeing with me? Because that is exactly what I said.
Tariq
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
Agreeing with you Tariq!! Sorry if it sounded a bit confusing. I am not a professional writer like yourself!
Re: Don’t like the idea? Hell, assassinate the person!
[quote]A Saudi: “Ok let’s put the investment aside from now but what about the 100,000,000 in cash and the free oil for the victims of Hurricane Katrina? What’s your opinion concerning that? I know there were obviously ulterior motives but it was a fine gesture nonetheless.”[/quote]
It is astounding.
[quote]A Saudi: “Aramco was under pressure to provide schools for Arab children, and as usual, was reluctant to take responsibilities unrelated to the oil businessâ€? it doesn’t quite paint the picture of the ever willing and “cheerfulâ€? philanthropist. The Ford foundation-a charitable one- by the way did a magnificent job in putting our finances in order and providing us with a working bureaucracy. As to teaching the Saudis how to use the technology we bought for the US, well isn’t that the job of any good vendor? Imagine handing a customer a shiny new gizmo without the instruction manual, they’ll quickly get frustrated by it and simply avoid your next product. It just good business sense making sure that the customer can successfully operate the product and hence happy with it. Anyway I’m pretty sure we paid for that service a lot of the times.”[/quote]
I’ll agree that Aramco was not in the business of philanthropy but maintain my position that they were enlightened in their dealings with the Saudis. Naturally, the Saudis continued requesting extraneous favors. If Aramco did not draw the line somewhere, they would be doing nothing but servicing Saudi wish lists. After all, there is infinite demand for free stuff.
As for good vendors, well, there are plenty of vendors in the IT business who are purposely fuzzy about explaining their products in order to milk the maintenance contracts. Some vendors take pride in not documenting anything they do. That makes it difficult to take over their work. It’s a common practice for vendors to keep their customers in the dark to keep them dependent.
When the Americans configured the relationship with Saudi Arabia so as to serve the Saudis best interests, it was more than just a sum of business deals.
[quote]A Saudi: “Now we come to the less savoury aspect of this transfer of knowledge. OPM-SANG or the Program Manager-Saudi Arabian National Guard, I quote Lippman again, page 286 “The National Guard is an internal paramilitary security force, created in 1956 and commanded since 1962 by Prince Abdullah (…) There has been surprisingly little debate in Washington ,considering the National Guard’s role as a domestic enforcer of a regime often described as autocratic and corrupt.â€? Why is that Steve? Why? The US Material Army Command built the guard ground up practically from scratch and this is the same National Guard that crushed one Shiite uprising after the other. Lest you accuse me of being biased I was raised up a Sunni but that’s immaterial. I don’t think there’s anything concerning the US foreign policy towards my country that saddens me more than this. How can a freedom loving people export such a repressive tool to a regime that it knows will be used to stifle the freedom of others.”[/quote]
My speculation, with only superficial knowledge of the National Guard, is that the US leaders did a cold analysis of the situation and judged it the least of evils. It’s a given that Saudi Arabia is not going to feature democratic institutions and that we won’t impose our own way on them. If we don’t train their NG, somebody else will with worse results. If we train them, we will maintain contacts with their leadership and have some marginal influence on them. If somebody else trains the National Guard, like the Soviets, they have a lever in a future coup.
That’s more pragmatic than principled, but there are limits to American influence and sometimes the menu contains only lousy choices. In the end, the Saudis are responsible for their government, not the US.
Steve