Lets assume that the ‘true’ spirit and ethos of Islam actually honors women. And lets assume, that you are open to Islam version 2.0.

My point, very simply, is that one of the most fundamental develpoments from Islam 1.0 to Islam 2.0 is that it should recognize that in the 21st century, we have states, governments, and civil law. And that, the whole domain of personal legislation should be left to the State and not to the Islamic scholars.

And, please do not come back and tell me that in Islam, we cannot sepaprate governance from religion because that is the way that it was in the 6th century. if you are open to the concept of evolution, then you must accept the premise that the place for evolution is in parliament/ in government and not in the hands of the straggly bearded ones who seems to be more obsessed with sex than Islam.

In other words, the debate of how to deal with marriage, divorce, inheritance, child custody, etc should be centered on things like what education costs today, what health care costs today, what rent costs today .. and not really centered on what the prophet did centuries ago in order to establish some sort of social order. It may be very interesting from a historical perspective, or even to people with an interest in islamic jurisprudence. However, it is simply not relevant in today’s world. And, more worryingly, the debate then is limited to only those ‘scholars’. If these scholars aren’t doing a good job, then its time to change them or broaden the scope of debate. Irrespective of whether the intrinsic nature of Islam is pure or not.

Just my humble opinion.

0  0

You cannot blame me for a completely flawed concept nor can you justify it by obfuscating facts and useless, unthought out defence which uses the downgrading of others to prove your lofty “truth”.

Nor do we “need to give it time” and “get a complete picture of how Islam looks at women” or even tax our intellect for “understanding” that in Islam a woman is half that of a man, and sometimes not worth as much as a camel, nor that she cannot bear witness by herself nor that she is described as half-witted, half-faithful and half-worthy if it stares you right in the face every time you either open a book, or speak to an apologist like yourself.

Once you have “facts”, then please come and give me more links to peruse. Until that time, quit your mental masturbation, it’s not doing you any good and you are going blind.

0  0

0  0

The sooner that we wake up to this the better we will be. Taking a humanist and logical approach to life, or at least marrying these principles to Islam, would probably be a good option.

0  0

I went to the first page of this site and I was completely surprised by what I saw on the first page!! When comparing the White Islamic revolution vs the dark western revolution???

1. ‘ It did not provide any opportunity to the unmarried men who are always after enticing women.’

Why is there a judgement on the women and not the men?

2. ‘It did not snatch away the wives from their husbands and the daughters from their parents and did not hand them over to the sensual executives and the moneyed magnates.’

Oh please…. are you telling me that people aren’t attratced to power or money? Do you think its coincidence that the Prophet’s first wife was a rich older woman?

3. ‘No one knows what to do with all the corruption that is rampant, with the ever-growing cases of infanticide and abortion, with 40 per cent illegitimate children and with those new-born infants whose fathers are not known and whose mothers do not want to have anything to do with them, because they were not born in lawful wedlock. The mothers of such children simply hand them over to some social organisations and then never come back to inquire about them.

Habibi .. have you gone to our orphanages? Have you gone to the counselling centers? Have you gone to see the abuse cases? Sometimes men against women. Sometimes women against children. Sometimes women against the elderly? What makes you think that Moslems are any different than any other human being? Do you really think that we are being held to a higher standard because Islam is a ‘loftier religion’?????

4. ‘Man is after sex and woman is after love. Man is overpowered by his sexual urge, whereas, woman, according to the psychologists, has a greater capacity of controlling and concealing her desires. It is the melody of love, sincerity and faithfulness which subdues woman and brings her to her knees. That is what we mean by credulity of woman. As long as the woman is a maiden and has had no experience of men, she can easily be lured by his love songs. ‘

I am flabbergasted. Salman … I think that this site was written by a man in order ti make himself feel better about his own sexuality as a man. I dont understand how women can be enticing in one sentence, and then innocent/naive in another. But – most fundamentally, I think that you and whoever wrote this site is in serious denial about the male/female dymanics in the Moslem world today. If Islam cannot take a position on what to do if the father doesnt consent, and if it is left to a tribal patriarchial system to do that, then there is something missing in this so called ‘perfect’ religion of ours.

As for west vs moslem treatment of women .. most of my moslem friends who are married to expats have more faith in the civil ceremony that the ‘western’ courts offer in terms of protection than they have in the sharia courts.

something is wrong. and as a moslem woman, i am sick and tired of hearing about how much ‘better’ we are supposed to be than everyone else. i dont see it. i dont like the violence. i dont like the control. i dont like the oppression. and i dont like some straggly beared dunce telling me that i should be grateful for being part of a ‘white’ revolution because he said so.

0  0

0  0

by the way … anyone who thinks that arabs and moslems are all held to a higher standard of morality and behavior should pay a visit to the orphanage. if they ever got a doctor in there to check dna, i am sure that there will be some, if not significant, evidence of incest ..

so .. please don’t tell me that the prime minister is responsible for that as well? we are just a society in evolution from a tribal patriarchy to …. i dont know really .. but we are in transition. and where we go will depend on x factor, y factor, z factor and max factor …

start with reality, with what exists, and work from there to where we want to be. and lets make sure that where we want to be is somewhere realistic. where does one draw the line? at the way saudi arabia treats its women? or the taleban? or iran ?

0  0

Are my assumptions correct?

If they are, please:

1. don’t talk about Bahrain in the third person, WE have problems and they are being solved, much slower than I would like, but they are being treated.

2. our discussion here is about Islam’s view – in general – about women, to which you have not contributed anything other than platitudes and dogmatic utterances worthy of a die-hard bin Ladenite.

3. you continue to want us to believe that YOU believe in freedoms of choice, when from your comments it is easy to deduce your real position, which is confused and intellectually bankrupt.

4. you were asked direct questions that we had hoped that YOU would answer, rather than let Google do the answering for you. When you have formed an opinion that is yourselve’s, please let us know. I am just dying to understand your point of view.

5. Muslim women are not the purist there are in the world, nor are they the best, nor are they the sexiest, nor are they the prettiest, and all the other “ests” there are in the world. They are human beings first and foremost looking to live their lives (or should) as honourable and honoured humans, regardless of religion. Some are better when compared to specific instances, and some are much much worst. Like this mother dumping her newborn IN a rubbish bag and left to die next to a rubbish skip who is most probably Bahraini, if not then she might be a Muslim. And here’s news for you, this mother is not the first, and she won’t be the last, as long as WE Muslims/Arabs prefer to place a woman’s honour in her genitals, rather than respect and adore life.

So do wake up. Please. For your sake. And smell the roses.

Now that we have cleared things, please stick to the topic at hand and let us know your personal opinions rather than hairing off at a tangent.

0  0

Geoffrey Parrinder, Mysticism in the World’s Religions (New York: Oxford University Press, 1976, pg. 121)

+ Ayesha(ra) was engaged to someone else before she got engaged to Muhammad(saw)

Surprisingly, some will go ahead and defend their Shaikhs regardless of the cost!

Anyway, I still think in order to improve the situation in Bahrain, Al-Khaleefa, and sp. your prime minister needs to end all his non-ethical activities that is bringing all the Saudis every week to Bahrain,

One other thing, I should say,
Alhamed le Allah, with our IDEALS our woman hold the highest record in purity, honesty and fidelity. Yet I will share with them the fight to promote more rights.

They have two enemies,

1. Who wants them to be with no ideals and follow the Hollywood style of life. i.e. to be their for adverts, as not thing but babes,

2. Who wants them to regress in another way, staying at home as a piece of furniture with no development at all.

What I think is not important, they are free to choose, as I am free to choose.

0  0

0  0