If you’re not with us…
Then according to the US, UK and Israel, the whole world is against them, as the Independent has shown, as only these three countries are against an immediate cease fire.
Does that tell us anything?
It tells me that they’ve got their own agenda and couldn’t give a damn about world opinion, nor care about anyone but themselves. This is getting absolutely sickening. A whole country is on its knees, what else could they possibly want?
If the object is to drag Iran and Syria into it and precipitate World War III, then with the leaders that those two countries have been blessed with, they will jump at the chance which is the very scary prospect for the whole world, not just this area, as we will have a war of attrition where no bounds are respected and most certainly human life is as dispensable as the poor Lebanese so far, all to appease maliable and manipulated egos.
The wise thing to do is to stop, take stock, and realise that the only way forward open to all parties cannot be anything else but the negotiating table. How else can permanent and lasting peace be achieved?
But who’s listening?
Hat tip Rants and Rambles via And Far Away
BillT:
You state “Its not just a opportunity for peace its an opportunity for the countrys in the region to put their money where their mouths are and rebuild Lebanon. I dont expect that to happen either.”
Who do you think is pumping money into the banking system in lebanon to support the Lebanese pound and prevent it from collapsing?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5214354.stm
http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story_s.asp?StoryId=1093121555
Its a start. Time will prove me either right or wrong
billT
Aliandra,
“There’s nothing wrong with companies making a profit. Like any other entity engaged in scientific research, they spend a lot of money developing new products and are entitled to a return on their investment.”
Good, so you acknowledge the fact that the pharmacutical industry can very well make profit in times of war. And, since you did not broach on the Arms or Oil industry either, I am assuming you agree that those can very well do the same.
Now undeniably there is nothing wrong with these companies pulling in a profit. And as you have said, “some politicians are swayed more [by the lobbies] then others.” Bush on the other hand has been very adament about his support for lobby and business intrests, and demonstrated time and time again, both domestically and internationally, that he will bend over for them.
American’s are soon going to have to start facing up to the fact that the Iraq war was not waged out of some personal need to spread freedom around the world and give people a better life, it was to secure oil reserves, and maintain a government that would be willing to give the US preferential access to these. If Iraqs primary export had been asparagus do you really think Bush would have gone down there to liberate them?? If you do, then please pay close attention to other countries around the world who have much more brutal dictatorships in power, or weapons that actually do put the US in danger, before crafting your reply.
Oh, and if you’re one of those people that uses the “we won’t be held hostage by oil anymore” line, I’ll agree with you, you shouldnt be. Then again, everyone in our region has been held hostage by oil and oil interests as well, its been a blessing/curse at the same time, that has consistently damaged our region and the rest of the world. It has been an invitation card to occupiers/”influencers”, and a delay mechanisim for the demise of regional regimes that have been able to maintain good economies without having spent much of the profit on infastructures and education. Oil, which has helped so much in our development, is also the facilitator for a lot of the hate and mismanagment in parts of the region. But its not just the oil thats the problem, Oil lobbies and companies have been blocking legislation on alternative energies/quotas for gas mileage (etc) for years. They’ve bought up patents on more fuel efficent (and non-petrol) vehicals/products for years, and halted significant research. Oil wouldn’t have held us hostage had it not been for the lobbies that have aided in allowing it to maintain a premium price on purchase.
billT,
“Its not just a opportunity for peace its an opportunity for the countrys in the region to put their money where their mouths are and rebuild Lebanon. I dont expect that to happen either”
Regional governments have been pumping money into the Lebanese economy since the start of the war, they all have business intrests there and do not want to see their investments plummate.
On the other hand, Israel, who unnesisarily levelled the Lebanese infastructure, should be made to pay for damages it wrought in Lebanon. The UN should by all means, setup an inquiry that deals with looking at things that were targetted with no substantial reason, and call on the Israeli government to reimburse the Lebanese. If they [the Israelis] want a stable Lebanese government that is able to excersise full control over its territory, they should “put their money where their mouth is” and give the government, that they have practically burried, a huge helping start to get back up again.
Sorry about the double post Mahmood!!
Hello MoClippa;
Good, so you acknowledge the fact that the pharmacutical industry can very well make profit in times of war.
No, I don’t. Pharmaceutical companies don’t make a bigger profit in war than they do in peace. If you’ve got a link to the contrary, I would sure be happy to read it.
Bush on the other hand has been very adament about his support for lobby and business intrests, and demonstrated time and time again, both domestically and internationally, that he will bend over for them
Bush is no different from any other president. There are lobbies that support presidents, there are lobbies that don’t. There are lobbies presidents will listen to, and there are lobbies presidents will ignore. Clinton and all previous presidents happily bent over for plenty of lobbies themselves.
American’s are soon going to have to start facing up to the fact that the Iraq war was not waged out of some personal need to spread freedom around the world and give people a better life, it was to secure oil reserves,
The war was not about securing freedom for Iraqis, that’s true. But it wasn’t about oil either. If Americans were after the oil, we would have just made a deal with Saddam, who was desperate to remain in power. Or we could have taken the oil in 1991. Or taken Kuwait’s oil. Or invaded a more tractable country, like Venezuela, which isn’t full of religious fanatics. All the above would have been easier and cheaper than going into Iraq. The 1991 war never ended. The US and the UK have been maintaining the no fly zones and having shooting incidents with Iraq for 12 years. The US didn’t have this situation with those “more brutal dictatorships” elsewhere in the world. Al Qauda staged 9-11 because they wanted the US troops out of Saudi Arabia and the US was there because of Saddam. The US wanted Saddam out of power to secure its own safety.
Oil lobbies and companies have been blocking legislation on alternative energies/quotas for gas mileage (etc) for years.
While CAR companies have resisted mileage quotas, no company has ever blocked legislation on alternative energies (excepting for environmentalists who don’t like anything nuclear). We’ve had alternative fuels for a very long time. Solar heating panels have been around for decades, as has hydropower, coal, windmills, nuclear energy and fuel cells. We’ve got some big wind farms on the Great Plains and we’re looking into putting them on the shorelines. Believe you me , EVERYONE wants an alternative, and something that’s clean.
The issue is that alternatives are more expensive than oil, not that there’s legislation against using them. In one sense, the rising price of oil has a good effect. It makes these alternatives cheaper by comparison.
They’ve bought up patents on more fuel efficent (and non-petrol) vehicals/products for years, and halted significant research.
Mo, I’m afraid you’ve been had by a very old and long discredited conspiracy fiction. Pick up any American science magazine and you’ll read plenty of articles on research into alternatives (ethanol in particular is getting a lot of attention). Hybrid vehicles are the hottest vehicles on the market. Research has been going on for years – I even took classes on alternative energies as part of my engineering curriculum.
again, everyone in our region has been held hostage by oil and oil interests as well, its
Some economist (and I don’t recall which one) said that countries that gained their wealth through sale of natural resources would end up with very bad governments. It was because their people didn’t pay taxes and therefore couldn’t make demands of them. I think that’s very true.
Later
Mahmoud, and all of you participating, I enjoyed reading this blog. I am 66, and found many comments very good.
I visited Bahrain and Dubai from the USA in March 2006. Enjoyed it so much that I did a Web site on it, bahraindubai.info, if you are interested. I would love to get some comments, especially on the area entitled Islam.
I think Mahmoud was right at the start of this blog. We who oppose each other must talk to each other face-to-face. Otherwise you end up propagating a never ending cycle of violence that just breeds more hate and violence. And all people suffer.
I very good question countered this point (my point as well, not just Mahmoud’s). How can we negotiate with someone who swears to kill us? One on one impossible. You have to kill the other or you die. BUT group to group it is possible because not all people want to do such things at any price. Why, because it seems to this old guy that such an attitude brings only hate, more destruction, economic ruin and poverty, where the only hope left is promises about what great things you will get in heaven. An awful, unacceptable situation for any human being. Most of us would like a descent life here on earth. To that end, I think we do have a need to talk to many people “on the other side” AND LISTEN. I travelled both to Israel and a number of Islamic countries many times for decades. The great majority of the people want the same things in life in my experience and are quite reasonable. And for some of you out there, by meeting them and geting to know them, I would hug those that I got to know. Although we did not agree about everything, we did agree about most things. And I had the fortune to meet really great people in that category who are wellcome in my house in Knoxville, Tennessee at any time.
So don’t label people before you had a chance to look them in the eye and get to know them. For example the majority of us Americans or Christians are not bad. Same for Arabs, Jews, Iranians – any group it seems. Even Hamas, Hezballah, or even Nazis perhaps. I met a lot of people and found the great majority really good people, but perhaps uninformed, and they could not help that.
It is incredibly difficult to forgive another person – plenty of examples in this blog. If we cannot do it here, how can we expect entire groups and nations to do it? There are enormous egos that stand in the way at that level. We CAN, but only by each of us doing it and convincing others to do the same. I am not good at this forgiveness business, but I am trying a lot harder now that I am older. Assuming a lot about others based on third hand info with others’ biases injected had something to do with me not being forgiving enough in the past. Religion (extremist types) can inject incredibly powerful biases creating enormous conflict.
So I see what Ibn and a few others said about one thing that some found offensive. I made lots of mistakes like that over the years. But today I see that such things are a minor issue in the scheme of things. More often he said what I thought were some very smart things. We do not need to agree 100% with people about everything to be friends and to find together good solutions to some huge problems that you all brought up.
If you want to solve prolems, do not pick too many of them to solve all at once. And do not get side tracked like on this blog. For example, why don’t we focus on the Palestinian/Israeli problem. If you are an Arab, talk about what you have NOT been doing that you should. Like I am an American. I think that we must fix our Congressional ethics problems and the level of influence from lobbyists (e.g., oil industry, Jewish groups, any group), and I am doing something about it very actively, but I could do more. If we improve this area, we will make Congressional decisions with less influence from special interests, that will better serve people everywhere in this world, and that includes the problems you are discussing. Or I did my bahraindubai.info Web site to better inform people in the US and elsewhere about the Middle east and Muslims, because we are getting a lot of misinformation, and I am sorry to say but you Muslims are not promoting real Islam well enough in view of unislamic terrorist activities. Plus I really enjoyed my trip and the people I met as you can see from the pictures.
The question always is: we talk about these challenges (hopefully FACT BASED), but what have we actually done about them?
Action, action, action. We need more action.
Thank you docspencer and welcome to the blog. I hope you will find your time spent here informative and that we can all build a good relationship together.
Peace be with you.
Mahmoud, thank you. You are creating a world with better understanding – the best road to mutual respect and peace I believe. I enjoy your blogs, the different opinions, some very smart ideas, and will be happy to participate.
If anyone has any comments on my Web site bahraindubai.info to improve it, especially the Conclusions part of the Islam page, I would appreciate ANY brutally honest comment.
Best wishes for the holidays for all of you,
Vic
vicspencer@charter.net
I listen.
With each passing generation, there are only a few fortunate ones who are capable of seeing through falsehoods and propaganda. One must rise above the negativity expressed by those around them. I thankfully received this knowledge through independent research. But who can teach if none will listen? Many were raised onto our world with ears and hearts sealed in with defacto hatred. I have a mind for peace, yet in the heart of the United States suburbia, I don’t know how I can help. Most children in my highschool regard me as weird because I fill my day with the readings of the Qur’an, Buddhism, European literature, and philosophy. I refuse to participate in their selfish ideology.
“We can say the theory of interdependance is an understanding of our reality.”
His Holiness,
the Dalai Lama