What’s your name?

19 May, '07

Saturday, with nothing better to do other than pottering in the garden and in the depths of the folders and documents I have in this computer. Lo and behold what I found: my full name!

Ready, deep breath and read this (this is going to be my full email address at gmail too):

السيد محمود بن السيد ناصر بن السيد محمد بن السيد حسين بن السيد يوسف بن السيد حسين بن السيد أحمد بن السيد علي بن السيد حسين بن السيد سالم بن السيد أحمد بن السيد عبدالله بن السيد إسماعيل بن السيد حسن بن السيد سالم بن السيد إبراهيم بن السيد علي بن السيد أحمد بن السيد سالم بن السيد أحمد بن السيد جعفر بن السيد موسى بن السيد إبراهيم بن السيد صالح بن السيد علوي بن السيد قاسم بن السيد هاشم بن السيد مساعد بن السيد حسين بن السيد حسن بن السيد سليمان بن السيد إدريس بن السيد يعقوب بن السيد شريف بن السيد يوسف بن السيد ناصر بن السيد حسن بن السيد محمد الأعرج بن السيد أحمد بن السيد موسى المبرقع بن الإمام محمد الجواد (ع) بن الإمام علي الرضا (ع) بن الإمام موسى الكاظم (ع) بن الإمام جعفر الصادق (ع) بن الإمام محمد الباقر (ع) بن الإمام علي زين العابدين (ع) بن الإمام الحسين الشهيد (ع) بن الإمام أبو الأئمة علي بن أبي طالب (ع) زوج فاطمة (ع) بنت رسول الله صلى الله عليه و آله و سلم

and now in English:
Sayyid Mahmood bin sayyid Nasser ibn sayyid Mohammed ibn sayyid Hussain ibn sayyid Yousif ibn sayyid Hussain ibn sayyid Ahmed ibn sayyid Ali ibn sayyid Hussain ibn sayyid Salem ibn sayyid Ahmed ibn sayyid Abdullahibn sayyid Ismael ibn sayyid Hassan ibn sayyid Salem ibn sayyid Ibrahim ibn sayyid Ali ibn sayyid Ahmed ibn sayyid Salem ibn sayyid Ahmed ibn sayyid Ja’afar ibn sayyid Mousa ibn sayyid Ibrahim ibn sayyid Saleh ibn sayyid Alawi ibn sayyid Qassim ibn sayyid Hashim ibn sayyid Musa’ed ibn sayyid Hussain ibn sayyid Hassan ibn sayyid Sulaiman ibn sayyid Idris ibn sayyid Yaqoub ibn sayyid Sharif ibn sayyid Yousif ibn sayyid Nasser ibn sayyid Hassan ibn sayyid Mohammed Al-A’arajibn sayyid Ahmedibn sayyid Mousa Al-Mubarga’a ibn Imam Mohammed Al-Jawad (AS) ibn Imam Ali Al-Ridha (AS) ibn Imam Mousa Al-Khadhem (AS) ibn Imam Ja’afar Al-Sadeq (AS) ibn Imam Mohammed Al-Baqer (AS) ibn Imam Ali Zain Al-‘Abideen (AS) ibn Imam Hussain the Martyr (AS) ibn Imam Ali ibn Abi Taleb (AS) married to Fatima (AS) bint (daughter of) the Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him and them.

So my children are the 51st generation after the revered Prophet peace be upon him.

What history!

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Comments (49)

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  1. Ali says:

    sayyid Mohammed Al-A’araj.. lol 😆

  2. Proud Bahraini says:

    NO NO NO

    We meet in OUR great great great great grandfather who is Imam Mousa Al-Khadhem PEACE BE UPON HIM,

    No really which is a funny fact to know i guess

    well ok i know I’m being lame again, ok you can delete this comment i just wanted to point out that we are related i guess somehow.

    I’m sorry for it but i guess you have to live with the fact that I’m related to you some how.

    :dizzy:

    SO SORRY

  3. Proud Bahraini says:

    One more question if it is not too much to ask

    Well….. i just wanna ask if i can trace my family blood line like you did there..

    Becasue it is interesting to know where you come from, for me.

    once i remember i went with my father to one of our distant relatives house and he had this chart in the form of a tree with his family tree goes all the way back to Imam Ali (AS), the grandfather held me and he said in a our ancient Bahraini accent that our family and his family meet some where on one the family tree branches, since that the i want to know my faily history but i don’t know how.

    Well help me please?

    i tried asking old men but i didn’t work out. they keep on forgetting stuff and argue all the time within them selves.

  4. moodz says:

    hmm, let’s think of it this way.. If we discount your children and yourself, leaving us with 49 grandfathers of yours.. bearing in mind that the prophet (pbuh) was born sometime between 570-571 A.D..

    -2007 =1437 years in difference, if we divide that on to 49 = 29!

    So historically speaking, AlYousif family conceives a “Crown Prince” once every 29 years!

  5. Anonymous says:

    Some information about your family and relatives, you are from Mubaraz Al Hasa

    بعض عوائل السادات الأحسائية

    العوائل المنحدرة من السيد حسين بن السيد سالم بن السيد أحمد الحسيني وهم من أشهر عوائل السادات في الأحساء:
    الراهيم في قرية الجبيل
    الهاشم في قرية الجبيل
    الصالح في المبرز والهفوف
    اليوسف في المبرز
    الأحمد في المبرز
    الحسن في المبرز
    العلي في المبرز
    الهاشم في المبرز

    أولاً بالنسبة ل (آل هاشم في الأحساء)

    عائلة كبيرة ومتفرعة تعود للسيد حسين بن السيد سالم بن السيد أحمد الحسيني الذي يتفرع منه الهاشم والبراهيم في قرية الجبيل والصالح والأحمد واليوسف والهاشم والعلي والحسن في المبرز …. أما بخصوص علاقتهم ببني خالد فقد كان السيد حسن بن السيد حسين بن السيد سالم بن السيد أحمد الحسيني وزير ونائب الشيخ محمد آل عرعر في ذلك الوقت ولم يكن لقبه اليوسف ØŒ لأن هذا اللقب خاص بأحد الفروع التي تعود للسيد حسين بن السيد سالم المذكور من غير السيد حسن المذكور.
    وشيوخ قرية الجبيل من هذه الأسرة هم على النحو التالي:
    1- السيد حسن بن السيد حسين بن السيد سالم بن السيد أحمد الحسيني (الوزير المذكور أعلاه) وكان يلقب بالبخينق لأنه كان يغطي وجهه ببخنق (برقع) ، وكان يسمى (معشي الطرفة) لقصة معروفة عن كرمه رحمه الله ، وقد كان لهذا السيد الجليل الدور العطيم والكبير في جمع كلمة الشيعة والسنة في الأحساء في ذلك الحين ، وقد عاش فيما بين النصف الثاني من القرن الثاني عشر والنصف الأول من القرن الثالث عشر.
    2- السيد محمد بن السيد حسن المذكور
    3- السيد ابراهيم بن السيد محمد المذكور ØŒ وهو شخصية عظيمة ومرموقة وكان له دور سياسي أساسي وكبير في الأحساء وقد عاش مابين النصف الثاني من القرن الثالث عشر والنصف الأول من القرن الرابع عشر الهجري … ومن هذا السيد الجليل ينحدر السادة البراهيم في قرية الجبيل ØŒ أما أسر الهاشم في قرية الجبيل فينحدرون من أخيه السيد هاشم ØŒ وهو الآخر كان له مكانة مرموقة وعظيمة. علماً بأن الغالب من السادة البراهيم في الجبيل تحول لقبهم ليصبح الهاشم بدلاً من البراههبم ولم يبقى منهم من يحمل لقب البراهيم إلا أربعة بيوت فقط وهم أبناء السيد ابراهيم بن السيد عبد الله بن السيد ابراهيم بن السيد محمد بن حسن بن السيد حسين بن السيد سالم بن السيد أحمد الحسيني.
    4- السيد عبد الله بن السيد ابراهيم المذكور ، وكان لا يقل شأن عن والده وعمه.
    5- السيد ابراهيم بن السيد عبد الله المذكور ، تولى عمودية الجبيل أكثر من 40 عاماً ، وهو لا يزال حياً حتى يومنا هذا.

    ثايناً بالنسبة (لعائلة العبد المحسن) في الأحساء

    هذه الأسرة تنحدر من السيد صالح بن السيد سالم بن السيد أحمد الحسيني المشار إليه أعلاه ØŒ علماً بأن هذه الأسرة جلها انتقل من قرية الجبيل إلى قرية القارة في القرن الثالث عشر والقرن الرابع عشر الهجري وقسم منهم بقوا في قرية الجبيل إلى يومنا هذا … علماً بأن المقولة التي تقول بأن أصلهم من القارة غير صحيحة البتة .. وهذا ما أتثبته صكوك عقاراتهم وأملاكهم ووجود بيتهم القديم حتى يومنا هذا في قرية الجبيل ØŒ وقد استلموا مشيخة القارة منذ ذلك الحين … وأصل أسم هذه العائلة هو (بن محسن) نسبة إلى جدهم الجامع لكل فروعهم السيد محسن بن صالح الجبيلي الحسيني وليس العبد المحسن ØŒ ولكن جرى تصحيف على هذا الإسم قبل حوالي أربعة عقود فقط ØŒ علماً بأن عائلة آل صالح في القارة فرع من عائلة البن محسن (العبد المحسن)
    ونذكر ألقابهم التي تحول بعضها قبل عهد قريب إلى (العبد المحسن)
    1- المحسن …. وهذا هو اللقب الأصلي لهذه العائلة … وقد بقي منهم فقط بيت واحد يعرفون بالمحسن في القارة إلي يومنا هذا.
    2- الهاشم في القارة ، ولا يزال بعضهم يعرف بهذا الإسم.
    3- الفندي في القارة ، تحول هذا الإسم إلى العبد المحسن.
    4- الشرف في القارة ، وقد تحول هذا الإسم إلى العبد المحسن.
    5- الحجي في القارة ، وقد تحول هذا الإسم إلى العبد المحسن.
    6- الصالح في القارة ، ولا يزال هذا الإسم إلى يومنا هذا.
    7- الحسين في الجبيل ، وقد تحول هذا الإسم إلى العبد المحسن.

    ثالثاً : السادة (الدريس) في قرية البطالية بالأحساء:
    هؤلاء السادة أيضاً يعود نسبهم إلى هذه الأسرة.

    رابعاً نسب السيد سالم الحسيني المذكور الجد الجامع للعوائل المشار إليها أعلاه:
    هو السيد سالم ابن السيد أحمد ابن السيد عبد الله ابن السيد إسماعيل ابن السيد حسن ابن السيد سالم ابن السيد ابراهيم ابن السيد علي ابن السيد أحمد ابن السيد سالم ابن السيد أحمد ابن السيد جعفر ابن السيد موسى ابن السيد ابراهيم ابن السيد صالح ابن السيد علوي ابن السيد قاسم ابن السيد هاشم ابن السيد مُسَاعِد ابن السيد حسين ابن السيد حسن ابن السيد سليمان ابن السيد إدريس ابن السيد يعقوب ابن السيد شريف ابن السيد يوسف ابن السيد ناصر بن السيد حسن بن السيد محمد الأعرج بن السيد أحمد بن السيد موسى المبرقع بن الإمام محمد الجواد بن الإمام على الرضا بن الإمام موسى الكاظم بن الإمام جعفر الصادق بن الإمام محمد الباقر ابن الإمام زين العابدين علي ابن الحسين ابن علي ابن أبي طالب عليهم السلام.

  6. The Joker says:

    The name theme takes a nasty turn there from “Zain Al Abideen” and dives into “Al Araj” and “Al Mbraqa3”. Then its back to normal, “Salem” and “Mousa.”

    Colorful history.

  7. Munther says:

    Didn’t know you were sayed Mahmood ! from now on I’ll address you as Sayed in the bloggers meeting 😉

  8. Proud Bahraini says:

    I hate it when people address me as Sayed whenever they speak to me, i get this feeling that they are talking about some old man with 3mama on his head sitting on a munber, i shout out just call me my name that is why I’ve been giving one you know.

    And it gets really confusing when I’m my brothers and cousins and someone shouts out “SAYEDOOO” we all response which happens every year and i find really funny.

    But after all who am I kidding I’m Proud of being who I’m.

  9. Dude says:

    You are very lucky Mahmood, to be a descendant of the prophet

  10. Ehsan says:

    والنعم…

  11. mahmood says:

    It would be my honour to be called a sayyid of course, but I tend to leave that only to formal occasions!

    I too wonder about that mbarga’a and a’araj ancestors, is it that one was a pirate and the other, erm, had some sort of skin ailment? Ah, well, can’t change history now so I’ll take them as they are, thanks very much.

    I have no idea how you would go about researching your family’s history; if your family is anything like mine, they would have all of your ancestors documented in The Big Book of the family or something like that. Ask the elders, they would love to chat about this sort of thing.

    You could even by a genealogy program to start your own research. I could show you how our family tree looks like, but it would take a few wall-sized papers to print out!

    Anyway, it was fun looking this stuff up.

    Now to normal programming, one in which I answer to Mahmood, Abu Arif or sometimes even just ‘Oi would do!

  12. mahmood says:

    Thanks very much for this very explanatory comment cousin. Much appreciate it.

    Genealogy is certainly a very deep investigative work, if not a science in itself.

  13. Costa-Guy says:

    نعم العائلة والنسب

  14. naddooi says:

    Well.. that will make me a distant cousin too! lol

    Least through my grandma on my dad’s side… woohooo!

    Hold on, in that case, if I understand things correctly, isnt there something somewhere that says people should listen to us descendents of the prophet?! Hrmm…..

    And a second thought that’s slightly worrying… knowing how many descendents of the prophet there are… not a very genetically varied pool is it? And this has been going on for over 1400 years!!! and they wonder why we have so many genetical disorders!

  15. Anonymous says:

    Sayid Mahmood, because of them we love you and mind you I am not Shia. We love Hassan and Hussein more than our children and their Offspring the Masters of this Ummah. 💡 The bloodshed in Iraq is an affornt to their scrifice 😳

  16. Amjad says:

    in bahrain, is “Sayyid” called for specific people? ’cause here in Oman only the Royal Family holds the title “Sayyid” for its members, and no one else can hold it.

  17. in bahrain, is “Sayyid” called for specific people? ’cause here in Oman only the Royal Family holds the title “Sayyid” for its members, and no one else can hold it.

    In Bahrain Sayyid is usually used for decendants of the Prophet Mohammed.

  18. Troy Z says:

    In reply to “What’s your name?”

    Just remember the line from “Pulp Fiction” http://imdb.com/title/tt0110912/ : “I’m an American, honey. Our names don’t mean shit.”

  19. Salman says:

    I am also a decendant, but from my mother’s mother’s mother. So, i cannot carry the Sayed title. But hey, i am proud, and honored, to be a decendant.

    Mahmood, how did you trace your family roots?

  20. mahmood says:

    Ah, then you’re Mirza Salman!

    How I traced it? I didn’t, my cousins did all the research. But you will find that all Sayyids have their name registered and their lineage attested to (to keep out the wannabes and riffraff!) since Imam Zain Al-Abideen I guess.

    I even got a very old paper from my grandfather (rest his soul) with all this lineage not just written, but stamped with very official looking stamps attesting to the paper’s authenticity.

    I’m pretty sure that I have that paper in a very safe place… so safe I can no longer find it! But I don’t have to as the original is in the family vault anyway.

  21. And what do you make of the authorities removing Sayed from our names when we go to renew our passports, driving licenses, tracking .. erm.. smart cards, etc?

    I now have only one Sayed in my name left .. which I think will disappear when I renew my passport next time!

  22. mahmood says:

    Insist. You should be the only person who decides how your name is to appear and what you should be called. Apart from that being your basic right.

  23. can we talk says:

    We love Hassan and Hussein more than our children

    ????

  24. Salman says:

    CWT

    Many people love the Prophet and his family more than themselves, and i am happy to say i am one of those people.

    Why not love those who have sacrificed for you to live with freedoms today? Who stood up for Islam to carry on, and not crumble on the hands of the tyrants?

    They are role models, and we should be thankful for having people who were selfless, and thought of us first, before themselves.

  25. Cooldude says:

    Mahmood, I am very impressed with your lineage, but you are hardly in an exclusive club.

    Let’s do the math. The Prophet lived, say, 1,450 years ago. Since the average geneartion is about 20 years, then 1,450 years means about 72 generations. Let’s say every genration had only 2 children. I did this on my calculator, and you need to use powers for this, in other words, starting with 2, you just go 2XX=======, . So after about 20 generations, you have over a million Sayeds. After 30 generations, you have over 1 billion, after 40 generations you have over 500 billion Sayeds, after 41 genrations you have one trillion Sayeds, and my calculator just gave up after 45 generations, somewhere in the region of a few quadrillion people. Boy, Mahmood, you sure have a lot of company. And that’s only after 45 generations! If we do this up to 72 generations, we end up with some pretty fantastic numbers.
    Come on Mahmood, you are a modern, enlightened, self-critical man. By your own admission, your pride should be in your education, your liberal thought, your literary courage, not in reproducing this archaic and unsubstantaited information.
    Perhaps I am missing something. Can you enlighten me? Can so many people trace their roots back to the Prophet?

  26. Anonymous says:

    can we talk… ❗

    To be a good Muslim you have to love unconditionally the Prophet and the Massenger of Allah, Peace and Blessing of Allah be upon him. The Prophet told us that Hussein is part of him and Allah loves those who love Hussein.
    حسين مني وأنا من حسين، أحب الله من أحب حسيناً، حسين سبط من الأسباط
    He also told us that:
    هذان ابناي وابنا ابنتي، اللهم إني أحبهما فأحبهما وأحب من يحبهما
    And سبط means tribe and Sayed Mahmood is from the tribe of Hussein and for that we love Hassan and Hussein and their offspring more than our children unreservedly.

  27. mahmood says:

    41 genrations you have one trillion Sayeds

    Considering that I am from the 50th generation and there are about 6 billion souls on this Earth, maybe you should get some new batteries for your calculator.

    There is nothing wrong with people having pride in their lineage, what becomes wrong is if you use that lineage or religious precepts as an excuse to hold on to positions which cannot be substantiated by the application of logic and modern thinking.

  28. Moclippa says:

    One trillion Sayed’s?

    China and India are going DOWN baby! Open up the sweatshops!

  29. Yirtela says:

    Oh My you are all so lame! Did you know I’m from Jesus’ bloodline?! and Robin Hoods! Even the Evil Sea Witch Ursulla…she’s a distant cousin and Mother Theresa peaces of dirt be upon her! Wow the prophet must have been a very unattractive man…and Mahmood’s related to Saddam Hussein too…and the king of Jordan!! Congrats….as well as every other villager, street cleaner and bank clerk who claim to be decsendants!

  30. mahmood says:

    Al-Etriy, jealousy won’t get you anywhere! 😆

  31. Moclippa (the bogus coward) says:

    you brag, you brat, you do not even say your 5 prayers, yet you claims such ratios, which bring you even more shame than repute.

  32. Moclippa says:

    Please dont steal my name to make accusations at other people.^^

  33. Moclippa says:

    Actually…. why the hell would you even steal my nick to say anything in the first place? Mahmood, you mind banning that IP?

  34. Moclippa says:

    Sorry for multiposting but this got me riled up, I don’t know how many times this character has used my name to put words into my mouth… but its identity theft nonetheless, and now that its happened to me it seems that its relatively easy to do on the blog Mahmood. Do you think you can institute some sort of username/password system to create accounts for posting on the site?

    I don’t know what this person has said before, I can’t self moderate since I’m not always on the site, and its actually quite embarrassing that he/she is using my name to slander you, the site, or anything else.

  35. trekedero says:

    You spend your days drinking and bashing everything non-secular and you want us to pat you on the back for being a descendant of the Prophet?

    Get back into your cage..

  36. Jay Jerome says:

    Family histories and genealogical trees are notoriously inaccurate. If you want a more scientific test to check your ancestry (or at least to know where your ancestors lived in ancient times) you may want to invest in a DNA trace, like the one offered by this company.

    And by the way, Mahmood, although you and other ‘believers’ keep referring to one, in fact there are no Gods (not one, not many); therefore I feel obligated to note that referring to it/them is a factual misrepresentation.

    NeoAgnostically,
    JJ

  37. Ibn says:

    Mahmood,

    Interestingly… I remember reading about this calculation done at one point, basically proving that all of us are directly related to many famous people throughout history, based on current population figures, and estimated ones before.

    The heart of the calculation is that since there are 6 billion people on the planet today, if no we were all completely unrelated to such famous people, that number would be much much bigger, but that since there are only this small amount, (6 billion vs 500 billion), many of us who today seem completely unrelated can probably trace our ancestry to one common great-grand-father.

    With that being said, I wouldnt be surprised if 70% of the gulf Arabs are decendants of prophet Mohammad. In fact, I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of Americans today, are decendants of him, given that the spread of Islam reached many parts of Europe, whose decendants colonized the Americas later on.

    (Same for other famous individuals). Some Arabs I have met look very oriental, and this can probably be traced to when Genghis Khan and his clan decided to conquor our part of the world. (Boy did he do a number on us).

    -Ibn

  38. mahmood says:

    #32 actually belongs to:
    IP: 72.232.228.114 who apparently hails from the zoo, but currently residing in United States using LAYERED TECHNOLOGIES INC to connect and has nothing to do with the real MoClippa who has totally different IP and location.

  39. Moclippa (the bogus coward) says:

    Actually, and manly-enough speaking, and without any schizophrenia, I reconfirm: you brag, you brat, you do not even say your 5 prayers, yet you claim such honorable ratios, which, being unearned, bring you even more shame than repute.
    And why on earth is the act of mentioning your nature without layers, or masks classifies one as hailing from the zoo, but you despite all your despicabilities, old and new, still hail from the Prophet – himself and no one else! By the way, this claim should also make you despicable to the very apes you die to please the most.
    I do hope my schizophrenia would keep me on this, right track in postings to come, rather than make me deny this posting and the one before it.

  40. can we talk says:

    The Prophet told us that Hussein is part of him and Allah loves those who love Hussein.
    He also told us that:
    هذان ابناي وابنا ابنتي، اللهم إني أحبهما فأحبهما وأحب من يحبهما

    1) you can love someone unconditionally, but that does not mean that you (do/have to) love them more than your children. you love your children unconditionally too, don’t you?

    2) the prophet pbuh loved them so much because they were his flesh and blood. i see that as a lesson to treasure our own flesh and blood more and follow his example by loving our own children and grandchildren unconditionally, like he pbuh did. that does not mean that you don’t love his grandchildren and dont appreciate their sacrifices.

    Let’s do the math.

    you need to subtract all the females out, because it’s only the children of the male sayed that are sayeds. and it cant be an average of 2 males each (4 children each) because that would be too high. when the base number goes down to 1.? (? = some fraction smaller tha 1), then the numbers will be reduced substantially.

    the club will still have a large membership, but nowhere near as large as you predicted. if for example you used 1.5 (average 3 children each, half of them male) instead of 2 (average 4 children each, half of them male), and raised that to the power of 41, the result would be much less than what you came up with. sorry, but i have no calculator at hand to give you the answer myself.
    don’t bother with average 2 children each, one of them male, because that would only provide you with ONE living sayid per generation, which is too low.

    Ah, then you’re Mirza Salman!

    the children of a sayida are mirzas, but the children of a mirza are commoners, no title.

    btw,
    what is that poem that says something like:
    laysa almarú man qal hatha asli wa fasli, bal almarú man qal ha anatha… or something along those lines.

    actually, i don’t agree with the imposter moclippa’s sentiments or argument style or manners (lack of), but i would agree that it is one’s own accomplishments that should provide one’s sense of pride, rather than one’s ancestry. i mean it would be pretty sad if that were all one could put on a cv.

    as for choosing how you write your name, can i choose to write my name anyway i see fit? with shaikh A bin shaikh B bin shaikh C and sayid A bin sayid B bin sayid C, doesn’t that say that some people are more equal than others based on their ancestry?

    where does education and achievement fit into the picture? is doctor more important than shaikh or is shaikh more important than hajji? and if we have to ask that, doesn’t that weaken the argument FOR education and personal development. after all, you can never become a sayid.. or a shaikh..

    i know.. i know.. wet blanket.. party pooper.. raining on parades.. yada yada yada.. i know..

  41. Salman says:

    the children of a sayida are mirzas, but the children of a mirza are commoners, no title.

    Thanks for ruining my day 🙁 lol

    About the bragging bit, i believe anyone would be proud of being a decendant of such a great person.

  42. mahmood says:

    Actually it doesn’t bother me one bit. I don’t intentionally introduce myself as “Sayyid Mahmood” nor do I introduce myself as “bu Arif” but just “Mahmood” and that suffices plenty.

    There are two reasons I’ve put this post up:

    1. I keep losing this piece of paper, so I wanted a record and putting the information here is as good a place as others, and it engenders debate into the process.

    2. I was making a political statement to bring people’s attention that regardless of who you descend from, and regardless of the pride you ascribe to that lineage, that does not give you (or your family/tribe/etc) any other rights than anyone else.

    Think about it: if people’s claim to a throne is through religious connotations (God put us there) or the even much more dangerous ideology of “‘Ulu Al-Amr” then surely other groups will use their lineage to claim a throne by virtue of their lineage, some of whom can demonstrate their direct connection to the Prophet!

    That’s why I explained this position earlier as:

    There is nothing wrong with people having pride in their lineage, what becomes wrong is if you use that lineage or religious precepts as an excuse to hold on to positions which cannot be substantiated by the application of logic and modern thinking.

    Savvy?

  43. Capt. A\'Rab says:

    Fancy getting a tattoo???

  44. River says:

    really cool that you have that piece of history in your grasp..most of us Americans dont have that luxury lol…..

    have a great day and a better week !!!!

    River

  45. Iris says:

    If you are really interested in the DNA of your ancestors, you could go and have a look on the Genographic Project:

    This is really fun to do.

    Jay Jerome, of course you can rely on certain documents: In Germany there is the “Gothaer” with its 4 volumes in which all descendants of German nobility are written down. Spain has something similar, and so do the British.

    In my case I can trace my ancestors back on my mother’s side until 1648 (farther is impossible due to the fact that the 30 year long war between catholics and protestants torched up many churches where the documents were usually kept) and on my father’s side we have a crusader of the 13th century and find ourselves dating back to some even more ferocious Germanic tribesmen who believed they actually descended from the Asen and our family name is a direct reference on Wotan’s (= Odin’s) holy crows.

    My best friend can trace himself back to the Anjou and William the Conqueror and his brother is one of the most distinguished heraldists and genealogists in Mexico.

    I find it very intriguing and beautiful if someone knows where he or she comes from and I think Mahmood has every right to be proud.

    On the other side, someone with a famous ancestor has to carry the heavy burden of make his or her ancestors proud and his descendants even more. Usually a family has its own written values and standards one has to stand up to and to live by. It does not give you the right to think of yourself of deserving more than others, but it demands the duty to become the best person you can ever be and excell in life and always being made accountable for your actions.

  46. ابوسلطان says:

    ممكن توضح من وين جبت المعلومات عن العبدالمحسن في القارة.

  47. Aichia says:

    “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
    By any other name would smell as sweet.”
    Shakespeare, “Romeo and Juilet”

  48. Lee Ann says:

    I find it interesting that the very people who claim some sort of royalty or nobility just because they are decended from our Prophet Mohammed…are more than likely the very ones that do their best to make sure the most restrictive interpretations concerning women are the ones enforced as the “true” Islam..the “true” practice of the prophet.

    If there was such a thing as “turning over in the grave”…I dare say our prophet would be spinning like a top…and forgive me God for using that analogy…but it best fits the crap that is churned out at Islam today…from the “sayyids” of the world.

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