Visiting countries which by all standards abuse human rights and clearly undemocratic, then calling them a vanguard of democracy with a straight face gives credibility not only to the country in question, but to those abuses as well.

Applying diplomatic pressure to correct internal situations is another.

I am sure one can think of several other examples.

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What nature of sanctions are you thinking of?

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“This, my friend, is the problem being discussed here and highlighted in the report. No one is asking you of your government to “fix our own self-created shit.” Just to stand by your ideals rather than selectively applying them when it is convenient to do so.”

Why not?

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now that was good chuckle for this cold windy morning stuck at work…thanks

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You mean like the sanctions we imposed on Saddam’s regime? You know, the sanctions that won condemnation from the whole Arab Muslim world which falsely accused us of murdering Iraqi babies? In fact, Saddam & Co were selling the food and medicine meant for Iraqis on the black market and pocketing the profit left after the necessary bribes were paid to the UN and European kleptocrats. This is another heads you win, tails we lose game.

We didn’t just talk about human rights in Iraq, we acted. We closed down Saddam’s archipelago of political prisons, the children’s prisons, the plastic shredder. When has any Arab country liberated another in the same manner?

What about the US defense of Kuwait? Who stopped the rampant violence against the Kuwaitis during the brutal Iraqi occupation? If you recall, young Kuwaiti men were arrested at random, tortured, and then shot on their front steps by the Iraqi Mukhabarat in front of their horrified families to maintain Saddam’s reign of terror. Kuwaiti college kids were brought bound into their college auditorium with bags over their heads, listening to their peers being tortured on stage, waiting their own turn. America stopped all of that.

What did the Arab world contribute to that? When the chips were down, when Kuwaitis and Iraqis were suffering en masse, there was not even a public complaint from the Arab Muslim world. That makes your complaint that Bush is not chatting up democracy enough ring hollow.

Sanctions do not make a bad regime better. We can see in the case of North Korea that sanctions give a bad regime more despotic power over their subjects because they have greater control over the scarcer resources. Kim Jong Il uses the supply of food to punish and reward people. Sanctions increase their suffering and despair. Sanctions did not dislodge Saddam. He went on a palace-building spree.

Mahmood: “Okay, forget Bush, as history undoubtedly will very soon, did you hear any other Western leader stand by their ideals when talking about Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Bahrain or any other 3rd world country?”

Where is the popular support for democracy in Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, or Bahrain? The people support the adoption of Sharia law. To sell something you have to have a willing buyer. The Arab masses don’t buy democracy yet. Bush would have as much luck pitching democracy to Moroccans as he would have pitching algebra to shrimp.

And I doubt that the Iraqi Kurds will forget Bush. Ever.

If the West is acquiescing to autocracy, how come that autocracy never sets up shop here if we’re so acquiescent about it? You’re making your criticism of Western democracies from a kingdom, Mahmood. When were the elections for King Hamad? For his prime minister? For the governors? Whose being acquiescent about autocracy?

Mahmood: “Now, do you want a nice looking polished sword to dance with too for the pictures?”

Yes, that would be dandy. Could you please carry it to me on the plane when you come to Washington?

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You mean like overthrowing Saddam’s dictatorship and building a democrat regime in Iraq? Or kicking the Taliban out of power in Afghanistan and putting a democratic regime in its place? It cost us thousands of lives and billions of bucks to make that happen and the lefty weenies at the grandiosely-named Human Rights Watch and BBC say we are not standing up for democracy? Who’s wearing blinders here, Ethan?

Ethan: “It’s the same thing INSIDE Western nations as well. If the chattering classes don’t take a stand against honor killings or cultish indoctrination of religious extremists or enforced sexual segregation, then we have not progressed – in fact, overtolerance of -BAD- ideas leads to societal regression into barbarism.”

A point well taken, Ethan. This is a problem particularly in Germany where deluded judges turn a blind eye to Muslim wife-beating in deference to a crazed multi-culturalism which regards barbarism as just another colorful thread in the rich tapestry of civilizations. However, in America, honor killings are just another form of killing. The perpetrators receive no slack.

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Sanctions didn’t work for Iran, Cuba, Iraq, or North Korea. Sanctions made life more miserable in Iraq. Unfortunately, you are usually stuck having diplomatic relations with bad governments. Otherwise you wouldn’t be talking to half the world. Considering the global interconnection of trade and economies, sanctioning millions of people may not be realistic or even helpful. It’s not always about selective application.

I’m a bad dancer but a decent fencer, so I may have a use for that sword.

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