Nick Berg

I’m not shocked at all about the manner of Nick Berg’s death. The sub-humans who carried out this crime bring shame on all of humanity, let alone Islam. And the whole of humanity should strike back. These extremists no matter what they call themselves should be dealt with.

If we as Muslims stay quiet about this situation, then we too shall join the ranks of sub-humanity and will be completely culpable.

My heartfelt condolences to Nick’s family and friends. Although this could never be consolation to his family, if there is a definition of martyr, then surely Nick is one.

signature
462 Comments
  • Ash
    13 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Well said Mahmood. Sadly, another dark day for humanity.

  • anonymous
    13 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Amen. Let’s start by not blaming Israel for everything.

  • anonymous
    13 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I think that’s the very first time I’ve ever heard someone from the Middle East term a Westerner — particularly an American — a martyr…fit Mr. Berg a lot more than the bastards who killed him simply for wanting to help rebuild the country.

    Thank you, Mahmood.

  • anonymous
    13 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Martyrdom, I think, is the exclusive preserve of those who seek life, prize love, and pursue happiness. We can never die nobly for any cause we did not live for with relentless abandon.

  • rwgill
    13 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I am shocked. Shocked at the level of stupidity and irrationality that it would take for someone to assume that this beheading is going to do anything but outrage anyone with the smallest degree of humanity. What were those sub-humanoids hoping to achieve?

  • anonymous
    13 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I think you hit the nail on the head, this this reflects poorly on humanity. I hope history judges this act very harshly, because they will live in a world where such an act in unthinkable.

    While every country has grisley murderers (Jefferey Dhamer in the the US, who drilled holes in the heads of live victims and poured in acid), its a very sad time when their acts are defended by others.

    I am perhaps a bit ashamed to say I wouldn’t disapprove if the beheading happened to someone like Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot. But I can’t imagine being angry at Hitler, then cutting the head off the German delivery guy. Its absolutely terrifying to think so many peole can justify that in the name of religion or nationalism.

    -Andrew in SF

  • Princess_Kate
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    You are a good man, Mahmood. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us.

    Humans can be the most loving beings in the world, and the most barbaric. I hope someday that we will find a way to eliminate barbarity from our world, but right now I don’t have much hope.

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    The timing of the incident is so fishy and the details leaked by the victim’s family makes me and so many others a bit suspicious of the whole matter. Mahmood you called him a martyr and others took the words of the victim’s father and repeated that he was there to help Iraqis rebuild their country. This is the most nauseating thing I have never heard, he was there for the money like many others, and they are ready to risk their lives and sell their souls for the sake of that blood money.

    I am not saying that what happened is right, I am just trying to say that he should not be there in the first place. One of the questions which I could not find an answer for is that why would the FBI detain an American citizen in Iraq who was handed to them by the Iraqi police!!?? He died like many others and many others are to come from both sides and I can only pray to god for Iraq and the rest of the human race to save us of what is coming on the hands of the stupid US government

    Fuad

  • [deleted]0.31014800 1099323478.248
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    As brutal and barbaric as the murder of Berg was, it seems equally as repugnant the killings of 26 iraqi’s in US custody in Iraqi prisons. So much so that the videos and photos of such atrocities will never be released by the US government, unlike the sadists that released the Berg video for the sake of maximum exposure. Neither side’s acts can be condoned, but unfortunatly, as bad a cliche as it maybe, violence breeds violence. Both are terrorists in my eyes and as bad as each other.

    The fact of the matter is that as Jonathan Raban in yesterday’s Guardian ([url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1215415,00.html[/url]) put it, the Arabs in expecting/suspecting such horrors to happen on both side, have failed to be surprised by such events, and thus no massive outcry ensued following the release of the prisoners images or this video.

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    You people are commenting on this as if nick was picked up out of a public park !!! THIS IS A WAR. people fight,, and use the ultimate weapons ever been devaloped and created to wipe out an entire city or area. EVERY sigle day, we KNOW that there are tens being “killed” wether deheaded or dearmed or deleged or just being teared aparts. Two sides are fighting.. they would “normally” use all weapons and do whatever to defeat the other side. including the media. as we all know whow powerfull the media is.

    Again, I’m tottaly against the acts. but we should expect alot more to happen. and face the consequences of our goverments’ decisions. Wars only give birth to other wars.

    My wished for peace to all humanity.

    Omar

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Faud,

    Timing, details, many others a bit suspicious of the whole matter…

    I’m sorry but I’m at a loss of what you are referring to. For your information there are a lot of people attempting to help Iraq and its people. Some for money, some donating their time, etc. What’s the problem? How is helping Iraq or the reason for being their “nauseating”. I just wish more people would help out. Frankly what is really “nauseating” is the fact that the Iraqi people lived, if one can call it living and died, under the rule of Saddam and no one, I repeat no one, did anything for many, many years.

    Where was “god” and the “human race” to save the Iraqi people from the hands of the “stupid (former) Iraqi government”?

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Ultimately, history will be the judge of any U.S. actions in Iraq and what the Iraqi people can do with their freedom and society once the U.S. leaves. I honestly believe that the Iraqi people will emerge in the years to come with greatness and hope for the future for their children.

    Sadly this has and will come at a price for all involved in Iraq. Nothing however, in this case, is neither easy nor free.

    My hope is that Iraq can truly transform its current economy in the years to come from that of an exporter of natural resources to a more diversified economy of producers of goods and services. This will not happen over night but Iraq can be in a much better position now using oil revenues to boost education and business development. This can only happen through individual freedoms and some sort of democracy.

    And this can only be assisted with help from the outside world in the forms of loans, expertise, goods and services provided by various nations. In the end however it will end up for the Iraqi people to make this decision, have a vision of the future and embrace it.

    What is happening in Iraq, a birth of a new nation and seeing through the clouds of war is a potentially positive change.

    My question is do other Middle-East countries see this for it is, what Iraq can one day be, or are they (the individuals in power) fearful of it?

  • fekete
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I think most, if not all, Middle Eastern countries see what Iraq can one day be. Certainly, very few of us think that Saddam was good for Iraq.

    I think all of us recognize that a stable and prosperous Iraq does involve solid economic foundations and an investment in human capital.

    But – the reticense that you see is not because we are ‘fearful’ that a democratically successful Iraq will set off a chain reaction. It is because actions, to date, has not given us faith the the US can actually move Iraq along that path. It is the worry that this war cannot be contained. As evidenced by Nick Berg and others. It is the worry that during the time it takes the US to come up the curve on Iraq and the demographics behind it, the price paid in blood and tears will have significant, and the positive effects, questionable.

    The jury is still out on whether this has been a successful campaign or not. The problem is that the face of the campaign changed. In the beginning it was a war about WMD, now it is freedom and democracy.

    Bottom line … to make this whole scenario a success, more resources will be needed in Iraq. More people to help rebuild. More people on the ground. More security forces. More stability. More money. More time. More energy. Its about nation building and bulding capacity. (Things that Bush famously went on the record during Afghanistan saying that this was not US policy! but – whos remembering??!!)

    This, my friends, is very different than the War on Terror – which, contrary to Fox and Bush, is not contained in Iraq.

    So – lets make sure we all know which wars are being fought on which fronts and what is our definition of success, and more significantly, our time frame. And let us be very realsitic about it

  • fekete
    14 May 2004

    One more thing …

    One thing I would like to say, which many here will disagree with, is that there is no one unified ‘Middle East’. Neither is there one ‘Arab World’. Arab Nationalsim died with Nasser.

    It is time for this part of the world to also grow up and instead of dishing out rhetoric and pointing fingers at everyone – start actually holding up mirrors to ourselves and think about we can have better governance, better countries, better lives for our kids. That means that we have to start thinking about what is right for us individually, where do our interests lie and how we can actually go about securing them.

    But self reflection is always painful, isn’t it!

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    The FBI did not detain him. Local Iraqi police did because he was an American wandering around alone and he had an Israeli stamp on his passport.

    If he was there for the money, he wasn’t very good at it. He had trouble lining up work. It looks like he was a naive do-gooder looking for a little adventure who got in way over his head.

    And may I remind you that the “stupid US government” did not behead Nick Berg. Radical Wahhabi Muslims did.

    One last thing. Iraqis combing through the Baathist archives estimate that Saddam would have killed 70,000 Iraqis in the last year, had America not deposed him. It’s interesting that you prefer the previous state of affairs where innocent Iraqis were on a Baathist conveyer belt to the mass graves.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    “the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality.” – Dante

    What’s happening today is too much for people to remain neutral about things… thanks for speaking out.

    – global soul

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Insurgency of stupidity

    Insurgent,

    The Americans responsible for the brutality towards the Iraqis in prison are to face court martial; the insurgents’ decapitation of Nick Berg is cheered on by Al-Qaeda (or excused away with moral relativism by deluded fools). The fact that you can’t distinguish between the two moral standards says it all. Try reading the Dante quote posted above – you’ll find it appropriate.

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    This whole thing just proves how the whole islamic community is. When ther are pictures of arabs being “tortured” it’s wrong, disgraceful etc.., But when this americxan gets killed its all overt the arab news. Anyway I am trying to see the actual berg video uncut. Does anyone have a web address where I may see it. Call it morbid curiosity but I really need to see it to answer a bunch of questions and yes to give me more ammo (not that I really need it) to bash these killers. Althouhg what we americans did at abu dhabi was way wrong most of us are not like that. But I feel confident i saying that alot of these so called rebels are hypocrits of the highest order. Can I get a web site address please.

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I have just seen an “uncut” version of the clip of the beheading posted on an Arabic speaking web-site. I would post a direct link if Mahmood allow me to do so.

    The murderers talked for more than 4 minutes. They said that they were acting on behalf of Islam and all the Iraqis and criticized the Americans for most of the speech. Apparently they did not show any sign to let Nick know that his death is near and he looked so peaceful and calm. Those cold blooded murderers did not even have the decency to cover his head.

    Once they finished the speech, a knife comes out which was hidden in the speaker’s jacket and they all (the five men)hold Nick like a cow waiting to be slaughtered. As they were cutting his throat you can see his facial expressions and hear his screams.

    I feel hurt, physically hurt and ashamed to have seen one of my fellow Iraqi brothers do such unforgivable, satanic, and inhumane act of murder. What is even worst, them being proud and showing their murder to the world.

    They’re all going to hell with blood in their hands. May God forgive them; they know not what they do….

    Bahraini in UK

  • [deleted]0.31014800 1099323478.248
    14 May 2004

    Re: Insurgency of stupidity

    Oh, WHEN is Rumsfeld’s court appearance?? That is news to me.

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Someone is being a bit sensitive!!!

    Steve – a piece of advice. You might actually learn something from these posts if you dont line up every discussion on Foriegn policy as Radical Wahhabi Muslims vs. United States Government.

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Abu Ghraib vs Abu Dhabi

    Abu Ghraib … that is what you are referring to, (I assume).

    Abu Dhabi is part of the United Arab Emirates.

    Your opinions would have been more credible had you displayed a little basic knowledge of geography… but what’s the difference? Baathis – terrorist – Arab – Moslem – they’re all one and the same. Brownies …. 😉

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    do u really think arab nationalism died with nasser? i’d refer to this article on le monde diplomatique about the link between the current iraqi resistence and the resurgence of iraqi, then arab, nationalism: http://mondediplo.com/2004/05/03iraqinationalism>

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Please post the link
    ty

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Please post the link to the video.

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Please post the link

    Thanks

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Bahraini,

    These sub humans know DAMN well what they are doing and I hope they do burn in hell. You have no need to feel ashamed for the actions of these sub humans. The blood is on THEIR hands not yours. They made a choice and in the end they will pay for that choice.

    Ciao!
    M

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I think it’s absoloutely disgusting, that lowlife scum like these people, correction, cowards, carried out an act such as this. It’s the absolute responsibility of the media in the world, not to brodcast anything like this on the internet, newpapers, television. Don’t give uneducated morons like this a chance to voice their opinions either, they deserve a nice hollow point bullet to the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Trackback :: NOT IN MY NAME

    TrackBack from Chan’ad Bahraini

    NOT IN MY NAME will anyone justify the murder of an innocent human being.

  • Ash
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    To Anonymous, May 14 @ 6:12 pm. You want to have a link to this gruesome brutal act? I do not understand why. I know it’s human nature to look at an accident scene, but what are you hoping to see? A dead body? Blood? His head? What is it you are really looking for? To fire up your emotions or is it voyeurism?

    You do not request a link to the pregnant mother and her four daughters shot dead in their family car of just last week, or the Sudanians currently being butchered by the thousands or violent crimes of innocents in your country. What if it was you, or your brother, father, mother?

    Good people of all religions, all over the globe are shocked by this inhumane act as well as the pictures of abuse of Iraqi’s. I oppose publishing of anymore pictures/vidoes of anyone being tortured or killed as it obviously only serves to fuel the fire of the fanatics, murderers and lunatics.
    Enough already.

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Thank you. I wish our Muslim Council in Britain would be a little more forthcoming and condemn these acts – they’re really not inspiring much affection from non-Muslims here.

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    if you do not want to see the video or the pictures, then I recommend you don’t see them. Don’t dictate to other people, however, that they should not see them. War is gruesome and murderous, and this is what happens when war occurs.

    We are used to just seeing the magnificent, hollywood-like effects of explosions like “Shock and Awe”, but we never want to see the blood it entails. I believe that pictures and videos showing such horrible acts should be available for two reasons: 1. as evidence to know the truth of what happens and 2.for people to realize what war truly entails in death and destruction.

    Like in many other areas, people should have the choice of watching or not.

  • Ash
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Ok, given that agrument then it should be the victims or their families who decide. Choice is for all, right? By the way I did not dictate, I asked questions and I stated my opinion. People should have the choice to speak out, unless of course, it is of not your opinion?

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    sickening video, any person or group capable carrying out such an act surley cannot be classed as human. it is also very dangerous as it fuels hate, and stereo-typing towards ethnic groups. the nick berg video should not of been shown, it should never of happened.

    ashamed of the human race.

  • anonymous
    14 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Thank you Mahmood for having the courage to say what you have.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    I don’t agree with the writer. As muslim we should defend the honor of humuliated brothers. If we keep bowing down to the Americans, our honor is at stake. Those people are heroes. I only hope there are more like them. Allah is great!

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    whoa!!!!

    easy there buddy. thats like nazi germany saying that the person behind the jew is ok – but the jew needs to be separated and put into the ghettos because they are abhorrent. or like pre civil rights US saying that african americans are ok as individual people – ‘lool! they even sing!’ – but that they should be aloud to share the same washrooms as whites, or even a bus – because they are abhorrent as a race.

    hello .. wake up buddy. tolerance takes work. if one video can bring to your limits – then i would have to agree with the person who said that your tolerance may have been skin deep to begin with.

    you have heard a significant amount of moslems on this site speak out against berg. we have also heard a significant amount of americans speak out agasint abu ghraib. that common empaty and understanding is more crucial for the welfare of your kids and the world they live in and you writing off a whole group of people in one go.

    Tolerance and Freedom and Democracy is earned. If you lost it – you never really had it.

  • johnnys_angel_12345
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    How very sad that one could learn to speak such bigotry with such a silver tongue, and to defend his misplaced hate and rage with references to the teachings of major religious figures…

    Wait…wait a minute…that would make you…just like…one of the bastards who did this to that poor kid.

    Be careful with your hate. And don’t try to wield it through a rationalization of empathy, or sympathy, or outright love. Lest you become that which you detest.

    Sincerely,
    A devout heathen in Missouri

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Greeting Steve

    I only hope you will never be in any muslim countries. Otherwise your head might disappear. There are so many of us, so for your own sake stay out of muslim countries.

    Lover of Muslim heroes
    Al Bin Slaeda

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    well said … oh one from missouri.

    incidentally .. not to venture off topic, but i have often wondered two things. the first is why do ufo’s only ever land in america. the second is why God has only ever managed to show ‘Him’self to men. makes me wonder …

    a devout heathen from bahrain.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    From the Qur’an, Surah Al-Barqarah 136 : “Say, “We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)””

    So the Old and New testaments are part of Islam too? What about “Thou shalt not kill”? What about “Love thine enemies”? What about “Turn the other cheek”?

    At only a quick glance at the facts it’s very obvious that Al-Qaeda is nothing but a bunch of hypocritical religious fanatics who don’t mind going against their religion’s ideals to enforce their own personal whims. Since when does a single individual (Bin-Laden) have the right to declare a Jihad? Isn’t that right reserved for Allah alone?

    Every detail of this thing irks me beyond belief. The cowards, and that’s what they are, are so righteous but not brave enough to show their faces. They have a problem with the American government so they capture a regular guy, a civilian, who has nothing to do with the military or the gorvernment. I bet that was hard work to capture an unarmed man who’s trying to help rebuild a dirt-ball of a country. Sorry, but honestly, what nation ever helped rebuild a country that it fought against? Did the Germans help rebuild London or Poland, etc.? No. Did the Japanese rebuild Pearl Harbor? No. Anyway, they capture an unarmed man, because it’s too hard for them to capture a soldier, and kill him brutally by sawing off his head slowly with what looked like a big butter-knife. Al-Qaeda should be proud of their cowardly act.

    In my opinion Al-Qaeda is no better than The Spanish Inquisition, or The Crusades. While I think that most religions, especially the Ones centered around Judaic, Christian, and Islamic ideologies are extremely bad in they way they seek to enforce their will on everyone, Al-Qaeda have set a new low standard in their hypocritical treatment of their very own religion’s ideals.

    Surah Al-Fatha 1 : “In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.”
    Surah Al-Fatha 7 : ” The way of those on whom You has bestowed Your Grace, those whose (portion) is NOT wrath, and who go not astray.”

    I guess Al-Qaeda doesn’t want or care about Allah’s Grace. They should be made to choke on their precious Qur’an until they die!

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    hear, hear. Outrageous Comment, above. I’m catholic, brazilian, and my religion is soccer, outdoors and music. Inner peace takes such radical measures. People, tune out of hate, no answers there, just a crazy whirlpool. Don’t try to be right, choose to be happy. Snap out of all this and be like children like Jesus said. Don’t watch TV, watch your neighbourhood. Walk lightly on earth, don’t take things too serious, not even religion. Have awe for the universe, be inquisitive and positive. The world will still be here in a 1000 years an we will all pass one way or another. Be tolerant, understand (your own) hate, free your mind.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Hear, hear, Missourite! Outrageous Comment, above. I’m catholic, brazilian, but my religions are soccer, outdoors and music. Inner peace takes such radical measures. People, tune out of hate, no answers there, just a crazy whirlpool. Don’t try to be right, choose to be happy. Snap out of all this and be like children like Jesus said. Don’t watch TV, watch your neighbourhood. Walk lightly on earth, don’t take things too serious, not even religion. Have awe for the universe, be inquisitive and positive. The world will still be here in a 1000 years an we will all pass one way or another. Be tolerant, understand (your own) hate, free your mind.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    After having seen the video of the brutal murder of Nicholas Berg days earlier, I am still in shock. I can imagine how the knowledge of Nick’s last moments on this earth being broadcast across the globe only compounds the grief and sense of loss, which Nick’s family must feel. As a Muslim I can only say that I am appalled by the grotesque actions of these terrorists on someone who, let’s face it, more likely than not was an innocent civilian who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even his seemingly reckless attitude towards his own safety, illustrated by visiting a war zone, does not justify this low and evil deed.

    Although there seems to be some mystery surrounding the events which led up to Nick’s kidnapping, I prefer to focus on the facts: that the Berg family buried their son on Friday 14th May 2004 knowing that somewhere on this planet, someone still has the video of their son’s murder stored on their home computer. With the rapid spread of information possible in this day and age, it will be the image of Nicholas Berg, moments before his death and the images of abuse of prisoners by US Military Police which will in time become the icons of the Iraq war, explicitly illustrating the brutal nature of war, by far surpassing the ‘nice’ images of the toppling of the Saddam statue in Baghdad and the image of Saddam in captivity with his ‘Santa Claus’ beard.

    Joseph Stalin once said “One death is a tragedy, one million deaths is statistics”, let us not make the same conceptual error here – Nick’s brutal murder should not serve to blank out the suffering of all the innocent Iraqi victims of this war, but should serve to bring home the magnitude of the suffering inflicted upon them, We should remember that the shock and disgust felt by Nick’s murder should be multiplied by the number of innocent civilians murdered during this war.

    The Iraqi population has the right to resist the occupation of their country, and those who perish fighting on both sides can be considered ‘Those Who Fell

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    here here, unfortunately when religion threatens me, my children and my whole way of life, I have to take it seriously. What’s outrageous about expressing an opinion? I never claimed to be right or have all the facts, just to show through the actual words of the Qur’an what hippocrites Al-Qaeda are. Besides how would you feel if your neighbor in Brazil was Nick Berg? I live very close to West Chester where Nick was from, and it feels too close to home. The way you talk sir, you probably wouldn’t care if Nick Berg was your Brazilian neighbor, you’d be too busy kicking a soccer ball and hugging trees to care. Wake up hippy, Al-Qaeda is a terrorist net that exists in more countries than we know about, and YOU could be next. But hey, don’t take it too seriously right? Don’t worry, be happy.
    I really have very little against Muslims or Christians or whatever, except when they pervert their religious teachings to justify their ends.
    And for those who want the link to the video, ever heard of search engines? Just type in Nick Berg video in Yahoo search.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    True….Nick was probably motivated by the love of money and not genuinely interested in the welfare of the Iraqi people, but the cruel slaughter of an innocent is not, I think the answer to the problems facing that country. I personally believe we (US military ) should ever have gone there. ( I am a former Marine. ) These animals should use their brains and air their grievances in a public forum, utilizing the new found liberty they now have. If as many people there agree with their stance as they purport, they should have no trouble in getting the Americans out of Iraq. It is, after all, now a Democracy… Let the people decide.

    Scott

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    By the way Heathen from Bahrain, More UFOs are reported in South America than in America. Recently the Mexican Air Force, which is funny in it’s own right, filmed some UFO activity around an air base. UFOs are hardly an American only phenomenon. Mythology affects every country. Ever heard of Yeti? What about El Chupacabra? And the reason that God only speaks to men is that men are suseptible to hallucination, whereas animals are not. Anyone who claims that God talks to them nowadays is branded a lunatic. Makes you wonder about the sanity of the old prophets. Moses and Mohammed would surely be locked up in a padded room if they were alive today.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    it upsets me that you muslims say that nicks murder was justified no murder is even thought i didnt know him i fell bad for his family i didnt see the video and dont want to. i hope they catch the ppl that murdered nick and drag him throught the streets of your country.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    UFO’s …

    I am assuming that this is written by my Brazilian friend!

    I was being very facetious in my questions. According to Hollywood, The UFO’s only land in America and according to conventional wisdom, the Prophets are always Men.

    Makes you wonder, doesn’t it – about where there is something significantly male when it comes to wars, religious fervour and martyrdom… or perhaps, if Hollywood isnt completely accurate, than neither is conventional wisdom when it comes to religion ..

    😉
    Bahraini Heathen

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    What most of you non-Americans don’t seem to realize or care about is how many Americans are against what our Government is doing over in Iraq. You all seem so content to hate Americans, to call us devils, and to teach your children to hate us. I am an American, I am NOT America! I didn’t vote for Bush, or his father for that matter, and I didn’t put him in office, I also didn’t have a say in what our troops did and continue to do over there. We Americans can only sit back after hearing things like “America is the enemy of God” and shake our heads.
    Al-Sadr’s Mahdi militia fired on US troops from north to south and hit a holy mosque putting four holes in the domed roof. All of a sudden all America is to blame for this atrocity (putting repairable holes in a roof) and the formation of suicide squads to attack coalition forces seems a normal response to these people. What I would like to see is the people who call these orders (Sheik Abdul-Sattar al-Bahadli)volunteer themselves for the suicide squads. They sit comfortably back in safety and order others to kill themselves in order to kill Americans. Yeah why don’t you kill my children for what my government has done. If that seems fair to all of you, then maybe it’s fair to kill all Shiites and Muslims for what a few have done. I personally don’t think that’s the answer but then again I don’t see how killing thousands of American business workers in the trade center is a blow to our government. They should’ve aimed for Capitol Hill and the White House, not American civilians.
    I know this is a rant, but the bottom line is this: American civilians are not responsible for the actions of their government. Just the same as all Muslims and Shiites are not responsible for the actions of other Muslims and Shiites.
    I am poor, white, agnostic, and non-partisan. Don’t blame me for the actions of the rich, white, christian, republicans.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Impressive. Wish I could quote the Torah and the Bible like that ..

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    What you are saying is true. Al Qaeda should never have targeted cvilians in 9-11. Like they should never have acted in the name of all Arabs and Moslems. And like American civilians are not responsible for the actions fo their government, most of the civilians posting on this blog are not responsible for the actions of these Al Qaeda nuts. Who the hell appointed them as judge and jury anyways?

    Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

    You know what I find interesting though? Its the fact that a ‘poor, brown, agnostic, non ‘partisan’ Arab in the Middle East would not have the kind of internet access that you seem to have as a self declared ‘poor, white, agnostic, non partisan’. Thats what our governments here in the Middle East need to work on – a better standard of living for all of us … a stronger middle class … more education ..

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    [color=darkred][b]If the Iraqis treated US and European civilians fairly, then I am sure that they would gain much more support for their cause. Instead the world sees lawless savages, out of control, posing a threat to any outsider, whether they be for them or against them. I felt sorry for the Iraqis, but after the Nick Berg atrocity, then I say pull the troops out, and let the Iraqis get on with it and kill each other instead… they have no place in the free civilised world.

    Harlequin
    [/b][/color]

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I agree with you my ‘poor, brown, agnostic, non ‘partisan’ Arab in the Middle East friend. We here in America do have some advantages. Anyone can access the internet for free at almost any public library, internet cafe, or with one of the free ISPs available.
    I’m not complaining, and I am not claiming to be the most impoverished person in the world, but by American standards I am poor. It is irrelevant except in contrast to the people in my country making the decisions for me, decisions that I very frequently find disturbing.
    I only hope that the entire world, including us devil Americans, can work on our quality of education, as well as more balanced class system. For being an educated country like we’re supposed to be, we Americans follow some pretty idiotic thought patterns sometimes.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    When thing that gets to me, is when ignorant people call another group of ignorant people heroes or brothers for killing innocent people
    (Nick Berg). Even when people kill others in God’s name.

    If you worried about your honor my brother, I am sorry you will never enter heaven as we speak.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    dear, Fuad

    i find it rather amusing that you say “the stupid american government”, when it seems as though the former Iraqi government was much worse. The U.S. government had, and has good intentions for being in Iraq, although im sure that there are some self-centered intentions also, one of their main goals was to overthrow the former government in which for absolutely no reason innocent people were killed by their own “leader” (saddam hussein) it seem to me that the only thing saddam led iraqi people to was an early udeserved grave. furthermore i question the ability of the Iraqi people to make a decision and stick with it seeing as how many of them welcomed the american troops, and helped tear down statues of saddam, and now the same people are protesting the U.S. presence or even going as far as to fight against them. What many people need to realize is that if we, (the U.S.) pull our troops from iraq now than all of the bloodshed will have been for nothing, and Iraq will once again fall into the hands of another mass murderer.

    sincerely,
    A strong believer in democracy, and supporter of the American troops in Iraq.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Funny how you people condemn the US…pity on your souls. Come to the US….and yes, even you (Muslims) are welcomed to live the life of prosperity given hard work ETHICS and MORALS. Beheading a man, even if simply for him being there for money, is not the HUMANE thing to do. You would never see that here in the US.
    Politics is one thing….but claiming religion is just a plain farse. Check your priorities for human kind….even war has boundaries….all disagreements do. Those 5 men crossed that boundary…God will have final judgement.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    The future is dark for the muslims. There’ll be a time when every muslim in the world will be persecuted. You muslims can stop this by accepting and respecting other cultures, mainly the western culture which is far more advanced than the other cultures, just look at them, they reached the sky and beyond.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Well said Mahmood and I understand those who believe the opposite – we all have a right to an opinion. I am English brought up Catholic – but soon renounced that way of thinking due to the sexual and physical abuse heaped upon children by countless catholic priests and nuns. I have taken the time to study the world around me and feel I know human nature well: we are ALL fundamentally good people – and every culture has more similarities than differences. Every generous act is basically a selfish one though – we all want to live at the end of the day. I fear for humanity if the specimens (they are not fit to be called human) that butchered Nick Berg seriously believe that their act is honourable. Religion is purely a form of social control – but I do respect religions if they are for the good and benefit of any society which I am sure all are. Without social control things such as this barbaric act happen – we throw the human cycle back thousands of years. It is such a shame that religion is used as an excuse to kill by people who do not have the intelligence to think that maybe there is some better way of thinking than the one they currently hold. Nick Berg’s death must be seen in perspective – many millions have died horribly like this since the dawn of man and let us not forget it is the current social climate that feeds macabre human interest which in turn dictates events like this happening. Oh there are so many (philosophical, sociological, theological, psychological) sides to this argument – I just wish everybody love!

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    that really isn’t cool to say to any1 no matter how ignorant a person is.. but im starting to wonder about his whole thing, seriously i think the us gov’t killed nick berg to get the medias attention off of there abuse of arabic prisoners, but thats j/ me but anyhow, if what happend is truley what it seems, i think it was a very coldblooded thing to do and it is deeply immoral

    -Chris-

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Dear ‘Lover of Muslim Heros’ ..

    You have no right to speak for me .. nor tell me who my Moslem heros should be. Steve can come into any Moslem country he wants, as my guest. And for the record, UbL is nto a hero. He is a coward whose prime motivation is to seek revenge on the family that disowned him and the country that revoked his passport. He is a coward. If he were REALLY interested in helping the Moslems – he would have taken his money, invested it in Saudi, or failing that, any other Arab or Moslem country, and created a company that actually generated value added goods and services, and hired a significant amount of the youth on the streets for decent wages. Then he would have allowed them to create some R&D so that he would be de facto teaching them how to create – and not destroy.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    There are no boundaries in war. People try and place limits – usually through the legal system and checks and balances for the chain of command. And yes, the US has a better system of governance than most Arab countries.

    But – you have your share of nuts too – who think they can take the law into their own hands and act accordingly. You have your share of pedophilia and rape and incest and jeffrey dahmers and timothy mcveigh.

    Inhumanity is not found in a DNA code. It is, sadly, a product of all humanity. All we, as humans try to fo, is create systems that givern civil conduct.

    So – the US system has more protection than most others for individual rights – but to insiniuate that inhumanity is limited to Moslems … i dunno.

  • fekete
    15 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    As a moslem, I personally think that God gave us brains to think for oursleves and be able to tell right from wrong. The Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) was not a coward. He fought wars, and he fought with armies. He didnt behead people for the hell of it. He wasn’t a bully and he always tried his best to protect civilians. I see nothing, and I mean nothing, that is in Nick Berg’s story that would have made the Prophet proud.

    So, as a moslem and an arab and a bahraini, and more fundamentally, as a human being, what they did to nick berg was wrong. period.

  • fekete
    15 May 2004

    Nasser & Pan Arabism

    I read the article. Interesting.

    I dont think that any Pan Arabism will ever come around by force or by ideology. (Think Europe). I think that the Middle East will and only ever be able to influence global politics as a regional block once it starts becoming a solid economic force.

    Iraq is a long away from this – and so is the Middle East. It took lots of wars and separation of church and state in Europe, and failed military attempts to unify Europe by force. It is only happeneing now, slowly, because of joint economic interests.

    So … I have no arguement with the theory. I just think that it might well take a century to play out – if not more.

    I think we will need to see more wars, more revolutions, more attempts to forge an identiy, a growing call for stronger civil societies and insitutions before we get to a unified Arab ‘entity’.

    And my guess is, once the coutnries that have figured this out actually get to where they want to be – they aint gonna want to be part of the ‘greater middle east’ unless they get someone out of it themselves economically. (Think Britain and the EU).

    So – I think that for the time being, its dead …

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    speaking of idiotic thought patterns … have you even seen the ones exhibited by our parliament ?! they would give dubya a real run for his money .. definitely put quayle to shame …. 😉

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    maybe we should send a care package to the al qaida folk … magic bownies from holland, a few spiked juices, a couple of special cigarettes, some beatles music, and we can bring back the 60’s .. make love not war… i can totally see ubl and company jamming on guitars … stairway to heaven …

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    No offense to anyone who reads this, but I am an atheist. That said, I am saddened and sickened by all sides in this conflict that have led to yet another innocent man’s death. As an American, I am ashamed of a President who is, in essence, waging his own Holy War. As a human, I am ashamed of everyone who is helping to continue the bloodshed of other humans, be they innocent or guilty. All I can do is hope that a god does exist and that it will soon put a stop to our ignorance and to our stupidity because I am certain that we will never do it on our own. In closing, allow me to say that I consider everyone to be part of my family; one’s faith, culture, national origin, and skin color do not matter to me. Peace to all.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Let me just say I have been appalled at the chaos that has been revealed to have existed at the Iraqi prison where the photos were taken. That was not one of our finest hours as Americans. I am saddened at the depth to which those soldiers sank just to humiliate the prisoners. However, the beheading of Nick Berg was even more horrific, and can only be termed as murder. It is my wish that all of us as humans can learn to appreciate the good amongst each of our cultures and avoid the temptation to descend into barbarism. My heart and prayers are with the families on both sides. War situations are never easy or easy to look at, but hopefully America can accomplish what it set out to do in the first place and that was to stop terrorists as a whole and to help the Iraqi people achieve freedom from the oppression of Saddam Hussein. Those are honorable goals and I know that the majority of the American troops will acquit themselves with honor and dignity during their tour of duty in that country and Afghanistan.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    You muslims extremists have no honor. You have to wear masks like Afgani women to carry out cowardly deeds. Allah is the one that is humuliated by your cowardice. Americans have been called on time and time again to rescue the world because they are the real heros. Stop acting like four year old kids fighting over a cookie and westerners wont have to come in and discipline you fools.
    If muslim extremists wish to be martyrs so badly, feel free to congregate somewhere of your choosing and we will happily provide 40 kilotons of nuclear martyrdom for you. Nothing would make the average, decent citizen of the world community happier than for your sorry souls to be closer to your god right this minute!

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    In reply to the gentleman who said that the honour of all muslims should be revenged,I’d say: YES lets kill everybody on the face of this planet! Muslims, Christians, Bhudists, Jews and who ever we are, let’s drop some big nukes on our own heads and lets all go to our own separate heavens.But first lets ask ourselves: Who far have we come since ancient Babylon?

  • dleffell
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    What a shame and waste. People don’t own each other, it’s god who owns us and it’s only him that takes us away. Shallow minded given extremism leads to bloodshed, the path no one should take.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I have seen the video and it has been torturing me for several days now. I have also been riding a rollercoaster of emotion since then. From despising Islam and all associated to despairing about the world (and species) that I may be entrusting my children to. I am also trying to marry my limited knowledge of Islam to this action. I know that the Q’ran includes the teachings of Moses and Jesus, so how can this action be justified in anyway through war or religion. I can’t see it and I have to say that my tolerance has expired. I can never tolerate a muslims presence again. But I do hope that I can see the person before the religion. Mahmood, as a muslim I currently wouldn’t tolerate you being within a few feet of me, but as a human being I’d like to thank you for your sincere and decent comments at the top. Thank you.

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    There is no justification to killing Nick Berg. Two wrongs do not make a right. The people who did this are misguided.

    An Arab and a Muslim

  • anonymous
    15 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    I expect you never had any tolerance in the first place, only hypocrisy. Mahmood, please delete this discriminatory posting.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Sorry to post off-topic, but I wanted to mention that our friend in Saudi is blogging again, and as usual it’s pure dynamite.
    http://muttawa.blogspot.com/

    Note to Mahmood: This may be the last day of mourning for Gran, but you might find the children still find it difficult to cope with. One thing that works for us, is to get them to write in an exercise book, all the things they want to remember. Let them keep it secret if they want. But it does help.

    Best wishes
    Meggie

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Wise, wise words, Anon. If everyone in the world showed such clear-cut thought and coupled it to their passions…well, we may never know.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    I don’t know who you are, but this has to be the rallying point for the 21st century. As a world we have so many challenges and much to do that’s beneficial, as opposed to killing over religion. Free minds, free markets.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Could N. Berg’s execution be fake?

    05/14/2004 13:35

    Given the incomprehensible jungle of information, the very first question, when viewing this video of an American civilian, N. Berg”s execution, should be whether it is even true?
    There appear to be a few problems with it, casting doubt on its authenticity. If these questions aren”t answered, one should be wary of the entire matter and be advised not to give in to the patriotic blindness brought on by the emotional charge this video packs.

    Consider these inconsistencies with the video before making up your mind:

    1) CIA claims it has examined the video and concluded that the hooded figure is Zaqrawi, a high level al-Qaeda operative. However, anyone who has seen the video will attest to the fact that there is no way to identify anyone from it, including the victim. Second, according to an US military report in April “03, Zaqrawi was killed in the bombing of Falluja. CIA does not elaborate whether Zaqrawi has magically sprung back to life or whether the April report was wrong.

    2) The US media claimed that Zaqrawi lost a leg in 2001. Now, it says that he did not lose his leg after all. This flip flop seems too coincidental as the purported figure in the video doesn”t appear handicapped. The US does not elaborate on which intelligence is wrong.

    3) The US media says the audio says that N. Berg was executed in retaliation to the US prison abuse. The reaction of the media was far too quick. It moved straight to using it in making a comparison between prison “humiliation” and a “beastly killing” saying to the shocked public “Look, we only humiliated them in the prison and look at what the animals do to us.” It was quick to point out that what the terrorists do to Americans is far worse than what the US is doing to the Iraqis.

    There are several problems with this. First, there have been numerous reported deaths in the US prisons caused by severe beatings so comparing “humiliation” to a death is the wrong comparison. Second, the tortures and abuses have gone on for over a year. If al-Qaeda were in the business of avenging prison abuse, it would have already done it and probably on several occasions. Otherwise, it means that

    al-Qaeda gets their information from CNN or that it just happened to be a coincidence matching Abu Ghraib prison pictures with this video. It”s very unlikely that al-Qaeda would and could engage in this synchronized US media play. The timing of the video release and the media attempts to whip up an anti-Islamic frenzy suggests a media ruse timed perfectly to deflect the mounting outrage and condemnation of the US military.

    4) The voice on the video says that an offer was made to the US military to exchange N. Berg for “some of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib”. The US has not commented on this.

    5) The Bergs claim their son was detained by the US and are blaming their son”s death on the US military but the US says that N. Berg was never detained and instead was offered a free plane ride from Iraq. It does, however, seem that in order to offer a plane ticket, the US military must have had some dealing with N. Berg. In any case, N. Berg disappeared when in US custody.

    6) The victim in the video is wearing an orange prison jumpsuit, the kind seen in pictures of Guantanamo inmates. It”s hard to believe that al-Qaeda terrorists would be supplying their victims a regulation outfit. None of the recently kidnapped hostages in Iraq (Japanese and Italian) wore any uniform outfits whatsoever.

    7) [WARNING: Reader”s discretion advised] A human head contains 1.5 gallons of blood yet the freshly decapitated head shown in the video is leaking none. Neck artery would squirt a foot long geyser of blood. There is no evidence of that either. Only one answer lends itself here: the video was doctored. Either a portion was clipped out or the beheading never took place as shown, with the possibility of the victim being already dead.

    8) The victim never resisted the killing. Even when on the ground, only one person sufficed to completely subdue N. Berg.

    This article aims at proving or alleging nothing. The point is to provoke doubt and hopefully stave off a few readers from becoming an easy emotional target and a news puppet.

    Pater Havlasa

    Editor, eBigBang.com

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Intolerant,

    I don’t think you’re intolerant. I think you’re finally asking the right question. Where are the moderate muslim voices? so a few have posted here. But when you read the translations of the Friday “prayers” , or view the political cartoons in most media outlets in the middle east, you here and see nothing but hate and vengance directed to the infidel. Why would they say anything else. That is the correct interpretation of the Prophet’s message. Kill the infidel unless he agrees to become a dhimmi, person “protected” by islam. MEMRI.org has an Iranian journalist explanation of what jihad is all about. It is not tolerant, as they {muslims} wish you to be. Being tolerant is passive, much like Nick Berg in the video, I’m assuming he drank the peace-nick kool aid. read “why I am Not a Muslim” by Ibn Warraq. And be sure to long onto MEMRI.ORG as much as you can. you’ll get a real picture of what Islam is. It is war by other means and belive the prophet when he said, “War is deception.”

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Your islam is different from our islam point of view. Your Islam still using an old value of civilisation, not updated, lack of improvement & knowledge. Ofcourse we still use beheaded thinggy only to an ‘ANIMAL’ not ‘HUMAN’.. Muhammad S.A.W doesnt want or ordered people (ISLAM) to kill each other except in war. In war you kill just using a bullet, an old days you use knife (same as you guys using to kill nick) so you (killers) are too lack of Islam knowledge. Not even know what is really islam. Allahu Akhbar I heard from the video, but do Allah S.W.T agreed on what you guys did? Where in the Quran saying beheading innocent people is a must??? As I said your Islam is not the same as mine, but truly to say “Our Islam Jihad is Civilized!”.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I watched the video on the internet, and I have never in my life seen something so horrible as to what I saw today. It literally made me sick. I hurt so much for that man who had to suffer such a tragic death. I’m only 17, and I never in my life have seen something that horrific. I don’t know how someone could do something like that. I really don’t. I see things kind of like that on stupid horror movies, but I was thinking to myself, you know, “This Is Real!” I just could not believe my eyes. Nick will always be in my prayers. I just hope he’s in yours.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    To Pater Havlasa, Editor, eBigBang.com

    Maybe Nick’s parents will be glad to know that he was never executed, dumb a-hole.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Horrible video yes. My prayers go out to him and the family.

    BUT…look at how the American people have treated their people. Women and children die there everyday, their cities are in shambles, the prison humiliations, everything destroyed over greed for oil, Weapons of mass destruction my ass. This should be a wake up call, pull all the troops out and leave well enough alone, before it gets ALOT worse. Hopefully another term for you know who is OUT OF THE QUESTION. Everyone should blame “HIM”, “HE” has caused this all and is the root of evil. For the poor people that still support Bush, I feel very sorry for you. For the people that agree with me, MAKE SURE YOU VOTE THIS YEAR!
    A concerned American

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Historically, EVERY society of humans, once great and powerful during its “season”, eventually suffered collapse–more often than not, overthrown, enslaved, or exterminated by the next (temporarily) great and powerful society…ie: the Aboriginees, Greeks, Aztecs, the many tribes of Africa, Native Americans, etc. etc. etc.
    Although our season of “greatness “and “power” has been brief in comparison, could it be that our time of collapse is nearing? It seems to me that we are consuming ourselves from within–from our lack of education (or the “dumbing down”, at least , thereof), to our acceptance and tolerance of those who consistently fail to accept personal responsibility for their actions–leading to wanton letigiousness.
    Considering that we are THE superpower, it is tragic that we cannot medicate and treat our elderly, demand higher standards of our youth, and insist that everyone be responsible for him/herself. Or perhaps it is that we CAN, but have chosen not to. Our elected leaders’ poor choices, ultimately our own choices, may very well lead to our own demise.
    If only a fraction of the billions being spent on the destruction and reconstruction of the Middle East, were spent on research into the economical mass production of hydrogen fuel cells, then we could once-and-for-all end our dependence upon the Middle East. It is a farce to believe that we are there for anything other than oil. It is a greater farce to believe that they desire us for anything other than money.
    We must make better choices! Clean up our mess in Iraq and end our occupation, remove our troops from near Mecca (this is highly offensive to many Muslims), forego siding with Israel, and return home to truly take care of business HERE–in our great nation!
    Peace to the Berg family…and to everyone of us in the world affected and, sadly, no longer affected by the atrocities a few inflict upon the many. [color=green][/color][color=green][/color][color=green][/color]

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    you know what? the radical isamists would come after me too, an arab moslem, because i dont practice their version of islam.

    its like the inquisition, or mao’s cultural revolution in china. its all bs at the end of the day – because these guys dont care about God, these guys want power. at any cost.

    please dont mix between these f**kers and most of the non violent, tolerant arab moslems out here. and dont think that these guys are just out to get you. they are out to get us too.

    which is why, even though i am not a bush fan, i acutally support him in the war against terror. like i support the saudi government in their internal war against terror as well.

    but you guys – yo have to separate iraq from the war agaisnt terror. they aint the same ..

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Can you read the Koran in its original language? Have you spoken to Muslims who have verified that that is what the radical Muslims want to do to all “infidels”? I suspect not. I suspect that, like far too many people around the world, you are relying upon the information provided to you through the various media of the world, some of which might be right, some of which might be wrong. Myself, I prefer to withhold my judgment about the Muslim faith and its commandments until I have spoken with a large number of Muslims. As for attacking us, have you noticed that they attack only certain nations? My suspicion is that they dislike both our involvement in their internal affairs and our support of Israel.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    I don’t doubt it. Obviously the answer is to get you first before you get us.

    May I also note that here in America people of any faith can walk around in perfect safety, unlike your savage neighborhood.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Are you claiming that Zarqawi the head cutter is not part of Al Qaeda and its parent Wahhabi movement? In that case, what do you claim he represents? Why did they kill Berg if not as an attempt to intimidate the US? From my seat, it appears that this is more of the same Wahhabi Terror.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Well said. I hope that you are on the winning side. Terror is taking a terrible toll in Arab countries in the opportunity cost of enterprises never started.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Chris, that is an insane accusation.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Let’s all splash a little cold water on our faces before we go on, shall we? Violence is always polarizing, divisive, making it hard to think, easy to hate.

    I think rather than judge people in groups, it might be better to judge them one at a time. The images and words coming from the Middle East tend to prejudice me against Muslims but at the same time the Muslim girls at the furniture store where I just bought my bed don’t look like head-cutters to me nor the Muslim women who work in my office. I don’t want to be carried away by this.

    I recall a passage by a Jewish survivor of the Holocaust who said that the worst thing the Nazis had done to him was to teach him to hate. Perhaps it’s best to come to terms with this conflict with a cold and sober eye, not reacting to the inflammatory. Maybe that’s what the Wahhabis want us to do, to hate like them.

    We can refuse to do that.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    The UFOs only visit America because they can’t get a decent cheeseburger anywhere else in the world. God only shows himself to men because even He can’t get the women to stop talking to get a word in edgewise. If Moses had been a woman, God would probably have only been able to send down three commandments instead of ten because a female Moses would have been complaining about having to walk clear up the mountain to get them.

    I hope that clears things up.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    OK, so South America has UFOs too and the Mexican Air Force photographed a few flying around their bases. Big deal. Have any of them taken the locals for rides? There are far more Americans kidnapped by UFOs than any other country. We’re pretty proud of that. All you non-Americans might want to ponder the fact that the UFOs are passing you by when kidnapping human specimens for their otherworldly experiments.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Actually, we Americans are responsible for our government and our military. This is a democracy. We vote. Our government reflects our will. The plain fact is that our troops are in Iraq because we support them. Come November, if the majority wills it, we could elect Kerry who would surrender immediately and pull the troops out of Iraq.

    I am one of those Republicans but I’m not rich like, for example, Ted Kennedy or John Kerry. If you are not partisan, why are you attacking Republicans? That’s something of a contradiction in your argument, isn’t it?

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    It’s a sad event, alas there is alot more to come. Seas of blood will stain the Middle East until one people rises under the illusion of being chosen by God/Allah/The Lord in The Sky. As all of money becomes concentrated in the hands of a few and natural ressources become used up, greater conflicts will emerge, and what you pain over today will only be a small warning of the unavoidable tidal wave of horror which is already wiping across the planet. May animals and nature have a better faith once Manking has finished exterminating itself in the name of God.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    I wholeheartedly agree. One of the most idiotic thought patterns being taught in our schools today is that there is a fixed class system from which you cannot escape nor change. It’s time that Marxist claptrap was tossed out. Thanks for illustrating that so handsomely.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Nick Berg agreed with you. He considered everyone his pal. He didn’t consider culture nor religion to matter at all.

    His naivete cost him his head.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Requiring that we read the Koran in the original is a specious test to have a valid argument. The Wahhabi Islamists are not shy about publishing their ideology and opinions. You don’t need to rely on secondhand opinions to read exactly what they think. You can get it straight from them.

    Here is what they say: All faiths but Islam must be eradicated. They go on to say that includes not only other religions but also beliefs such as democracy and capitalism. They don’t like the Shia Muslims either. In fact, they don’t like the other Sunnis. Only the Wahhabi version of Islam is the true Islam.

    And their jihad is not restricted to just Iraq or America or a handful of countries. Of the sixty wars currently being fought in the world, at least a third of them are Muslims making war on other faiths, most if not all of them supported and funded by the Saudi Wahhabis.

    Just this last week, Wahhabi-inspired Muslims attacked Buddhist temples and police stations in Thailand.

    Yes, they dislike us being in the Middle East in force. Yes, they dislike our support of Israel. But even if those were not so, they would still dislike us for being us, for being infidels. The Wahabbi Islamists flatly state that they want to plant the black flag of Islam on the White House, to establish the Second Caliphate, ie a world-wide Muslim empire.

    You may withhold judgement about them if you please but they have not withheld judgement about you.

    Steve

  • mahmood
    16 May 2004

    Please DON’T put a link to the video

    we don’t need it, and if anyone is morbid enough to want to see it, then please search for it on google or whatever search engine you prefer, but [color=red]please don’t[/color] put the link on this site.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Could N. Berg’s execution be fake?

    Pater,

    The CIA identified Zarqawi as the head cutter through voice analysis. The military also thought it had killed Saddam twice during the Gulf War. Such confusion is called the fog of war. The same goes for Zarqawis lost leg. Apparently, Zarqawi does not reply to our enquiries demanding a full accounting of his limbs.

    Your complicated theory about how Al Qaeda could not have reacted so quickly to include Abu Ghraib prison abuse as their excuse is hardly persuasive. It’s pretty obvious that they are opportunistic. Had Abu Ghraib not fallen into their laps, Al Qaeda would have dreamed up another reason to kill Berg. For Al Qaeda, every day is a good day to kill Americans.

    As for Zarqawis assertion that Al Qaeda offered to trade Berg, why do you put your faith in the word of head-cutters? When has Al Qaeda ever spared a life or traded hostages? The entire history of the Wahhabi jihad for the last two hundred years is that they kill their prisoners.

    As for the beheading being faked, please give us a break. You can see Nick struggling and screaming as his neck is sawed. This is no Hollywood production where the violence is perfectly lit and every drop of blood perfectly rendered.

    It’s pretty clear Nick resisted. You lose me when you claim he didn’t. My guess is that you are going to give up the ghost pretty quick once your jugular is severed. Even in a normal judo choke where you put pressure on the jugular, it’s common to pass out in a couple seconds.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    some very good points there which I can’t argue against rationally. But one I can: ‘If it only takes one video’ – This wasn’t a film from blockbuster you know.
    My posting was as honest as I can be but also very emotive after the weeks events. After all, that is my democratic right isn’t it. I wouldn’t do Mahmood the disservice of lying about how I feel.
    I think you are right about tolerance taking work and it is something I am going to have to think about for a long time and work on as much as possible.
    You certainly give me more food for thought than the gimps who say I’m as bad as the guys who carried out this execution. Doesn’t really offer me any reason to change my mind does it.
    I’m just tired of it all
    UK – Intolerant.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Please DON’T put a link to the video

    At last a reply from you! I asked, waited but you didn’t answer so i took it as a yes, please excuse me.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Thank you Mahmood. Truly.

    It is easy for us in the west to slip into the mode of blaming all muslims for this and other terrorist attacks. We know in our hearts it is simply not true. Sometimes we have to remind ourselves that muslims are just like the rest of us. I really wish more muslims would get up and condemn such things. To keep reminding us that it is only a few that are dishonourable cowards that did these things, not muslims in general.

    One of the major problems caused by some of the comments I have read here is that they perpetuate the hatred of muslims. How many muslims have suffered in the west because of what the terrorists did? I know in my own country, Australia, that school buses carrying muslim children were attacked. This is just as cowardly, but it is an indication of how easily we can all become animals. You people that are saying what happened to Nick berg is good are simply causing more muslims to suffer hatred. Stand up and condemn all such acts. Show the rest of the world that true muslims are no worse or better than anyone else. We will admire, respect and apprecate it. Maybe then we can start to being friends on global scale.

    Strip away culture and religion and you will find that underneath we are all honourable, true, loyal and good hearted. Lets just none of us get carried away with hating some other group; Muslims or Christians.

    As someone said above, your a good man 🙂

  • mahmood
    16 May 2004

    Re(1): Please DON’T put a link to the video

    Sorry about that. For the last few days I’ve been busy receiving well-wishers by the hundreds (litterally) throughout the day and then at night to pay their condolances and respect to the family. The only way I have to connect is through my mobile phone, and if you know the Nokia 6600 for all of it’s good points, its screen is far too small to do anything really! Add to that that I can only do that for a few minutes/seconds and you will know why I didn’t reply earlier.

    Today is the last day where we’ll visit my grandmother’s grave, being the 3rd and final day of official mourning. I should – taking everything into consideration – be back to connect normally from tomorrow.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    ……uhh…What?

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Dear Intolerant in the UK ..
    Hang in there just a little longer – and if you can overcome the initial reaction to lash back .. then you will have come a long way.

    When dealing with complicated issues, the easiest thing to do is to place labels on people and find one central point – and direct the rage and the anger against that person, or that religion, or that system.

    It is much more complex than that. Take a deep breath – and let that anger turn into sadness – and then you will develop a much more in depth understanding of what motivates people, and how easy it is to help hate proposer, even inadvertantly. And then you will know your role is to foster understanding and to build bridges – and not to help others build walls.

    Best of Luck.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    may you slowly burn in hell. Your kind will be wiped off the face of the earth. every single one of you. The world has no room for sick bastards like you, who think your religion makes you supperior to everyone else.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    the path no one should take, but has been taken often by many.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Until i saw the footage of Nick Berg I was all for the United States being over there. Now my belief is this: the Middle East has been good for nothing but war for thousands of years and there is nothing we as civilized Americans can do to change that. We need to pull all of our people out and let all the “Ragheads” kill each other!!! Only then will the world be a better, safer place!
    We need to protect our own borders and let them continue to RUIN theirs!

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    to the atheist who blamed Bush, haven’t you noticed that we were being attacked for years? havn’t you noticed that radical islamists say, quite clearly, that the reason they hate us is because we are not MUSLIMS!!? if we were to withdraw every westerner from the middle east, they would still come after us. They beleive they have a mandate from God to convert or kill every human being. Wake up! THey would kill you to, if they have a chance, and they wouldn’t care less that you are an atheist.

  • anonymous
    16 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    seems that there are still some nuttahs out there that have nothing to do with islam. thank god. for a moment there i thought we had patented them all ….

  • mahmood
    17 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    not at all, there has always been conflicts and war from Kane and Abel to date. I think there has not been a single week where there were no wars on any place on the planet.

    It is just that now we have global media that “important” wars are concentrated on.

    Have faith and hope, that’s the least an optimist can do…

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    If the worst thing that happens to you during a war is you are embarassed then you have been lucky. Don’t even compare nakedness with having your head chopped off you idiot!

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    chinese is very difficult to learn.

    your post gave me food for thought. except – i dont think it started with clinton. i actually think the problem is structural – the current feedbacl loop system is not comprehensive. intelligence gathering in the US isnt solid enough in the middle east. not enough arabic speakers. and certainly, before the iraq war, reliant on false prophets.

    maybe chinese isn’t that difficult after all.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    i agree… And when they do kill each other off, we should make it a disneyland!!!

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    You need to go back to your country then!!! And die their too…

  • Ash
    17 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Hello Mahmood: I hope you doing as well as can be expected, and your family too. Loosing a loved one is always sad, but you amaze me with your ability to give kind and supportive words, while you’re going through a personal loss yourself.
    For the poster above Mahmood, when I’m feeling overwhelmed by the constant bad news of the world or feeling down in the dumps, I plug into my favourite music and it helps. Sounds lame, but it works for me. Humour is another great tonic.
    Thanks again Mahmood.

  • fekete
    17 May 2004

    Confused

    I have been reading this blog off and on for the past few days. The one thing that I cannot get my head around is where people are getting the impression that net net -there are more moslems on this post who support Nick Berg’s execution than not.

    I seem to hear a lot of Arabs and Moslems condemning the act.

    I did hear some idiots mouthing off – but I heard them on both sides. I ignored both because they didnt seem worthy of a response. I did see a few honest attempts by a few moslems to counterbalance some of what they saw emitting from their own side, and the same for the US persepective.

    Nick Berg’s execution was wrong. Irrespective if it was staged or not, or whether he had ties to the CIA or not, or whether he was searching for the holy grail or not, or whether he had fallen in love with some iraqi woman and went to the ends of the earth to find her. It was wrong. The concept is wrong. This was not an honor killing. This was a terrorist act. Period.

    However, let me share with you all what worries me. What worries me is how easy it is to spread hate. How easy it is to write off a whole culture, race, people. How easy it is to manipulate perspective and perception.

    There were a few intelligently written posts here – some, sadly, with an agenda. All you need is some nutter (on either side) to get worked up and start discriminating.

    Those of us who really give a damn should really try and build bridges of understanding and not try and divide. The criticism leveled against the USG has nothing to do with hating infidels… it isnt about moslem hatred. It is about shirking the responsability of a super power.

    let me explain.

    The USG sold the war on Iraq as a WMD search. It went in solo without the world. In fact, agaisnt the world. The USG told the US people that the reason the world werent on board was because they were scared and they were cowards. They didnt tell them the truth – which was that the world had more exposure to this region and knew that a job half done would be much more devastating than a job not done.

    So, the US went in, thinking that they were liberators. And they really beleived that the Iraqi people were waiting for a savior. And so they went in, listening to Chalabi et al, expected roses at their feet.

    And what did they find?

    they found a people, who were confused, scared, angry, frightened, and most fundamentally, extrmely mistrustful of anyone who claimed to have thier better interest at heart.

    So – the tide turned. And these poor 18 year old kids from Missouri ended havign to deal with a very adult task of trying to reconcile with what they were told, and what they were seeing in front of them.

    Some elements within Iraq decided to take advantage of this uncertainity. Sadr et al. And they decided to rally around religion. For their own sake. This caught a few people by surprise. As did the difficulties of nation building and creatiing ‘democractic’ institutions. What the US started to realize is that it aint as easy as adopting superior air power. If the US really wanted a representational demoncracy – they would have to end up with an Islamic state. (Islamic meaning sharia based, religion as part of the constitution). But no – the democratic state were told that it must not be religious in nature.

    (side note – I am not disagreeing with what the US did in this regards, I am just trying to show that there is always a difference between what the official party line is, and what really happens on the ground. its called a political compromise).

    So .. we have a war that isnt going very well. we have a country that has a fighting chance – if the USG gets this right. The USG is coming up the learning curve. And it is an expensive curve.

    Meanwhile the US public is realizing that things aint what they seem. And they are , finally, learning to ask the right questions about the USG foriegn policy. There is a thirst for more knowledge, more information. Of course, that also comes with an increase in extremists who seem to think that it is probably better for the brownies in the ME to just kill each other off. But – we all know – that aint the answer.

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch in the ME, the people here are finaly starting to wake up and realize that they have to start taking sides. The apathy has gone too far – and the battle for the soul if Islam has now begun. So, instead of tolerating a stupid comment here, people are now realziing that at the end of the continum is terrorism. And beleive you me, more and more people are realizing what the cost of keeping quiet is. Note – I am talking about the silent majority. I cannot speak for the fundies or the extremists. Nor would I ever want the honor.

    So .. that is where we are in the story line. Except – our hero – the USG – has just threatened that it wants to pull out of Iraq. Which will be DEVASTATING for everyone.

    We would like the world’s only super power to act with conviction, stamina and wisdom. Coming into Iraq is a long term commitment. A job cannot be half done. It has be seen through till the end.

    Meanwhile, lets indivually try and make sure that we understand each other and that we have more to lose on opposite sides than on the same side.

    And as far as I am concerned, I will fight my daily battles and will respond to stupid comments that I end up hearing instead of keeping quiet.

    And if those UFO’s ever need to stop for some veggie burgers, we can offer some great ones here in Bahrain.

  • mahmood
    17 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Life’s too short. I know it’s a cliche, but it’s also very true so why not at least try to look at the good side?

    Another thing I learnt long ago (actually it’s something that our local cinema puts up before any movie and still does I think) is that “Courtesy is Contageous”!

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    [color=red]i think this is the most terrible thing that could ever could have happened to someone like that ………[size=18][/size][/color]

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    yes i know what is the world coming too this

  • fekete
    17 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    interesting that you brought up the palestinian suicide bombers when talking about islam.

    now do you see why people keep telling you that any real sustainable relationship between the US and the Middle East has got to be based on a solid solution to the Palestinian problem?

    I am not Palestinian – so I cannot answer if these suicide bombers have a father figure or why they do it.

    However, I can say that any victimized, institutionally repressed people over a period of time end up blowing up at some point. Until justice is served.

    If you dont believe me, ask the African Americans pre civil rights , or Black South Africans during apartheid, or the Persecuted Jews in Europe pre 48….

    For the record, I am NOT condoning suicide bombing. I think it leaves significant social scars within the fabric of society that will take a few generations to heal. All I am saying is that if there is a real attempt to ujnderstand the problem – then one has to go in and disect the root. Not to just stop at the symptom. Suicide bombing is a symptom. The root lies in the institionalized humiliation that Palestinians feel day in and day out -with a significant lack of hope that things are going to get any better.

    (And, with Ari Sharon at the helm, where even he dares trump the will of the Israeli public re dismantling settlements, I dunno …. one wonders whether he would have the guts to do that without the tacit support of Uncle Sam)

  • mahmood
    17 May 2004

    Re: Confused

    well said… I’m not nit-picking here, but I assume the “USG” is a typo? Or does that mean something else?

  • fekete
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Confused

    Mahmood ..

    USG = United Stages Government
    US = United States
    Fundies = Islamic Fundamentalists (my phrase)
    Jihadis = some term I have seen US people use time and time again. Probably used for Fundies- but I dont like the term. It misinterprets what the word Jihad and Ijtihad stood for to begin with.
    UFO = unidentified flying objects. Most people doubt their existence – like the intelligence of Al Maawdeh.

    Glad to see you are back in action Mahmood. Losing family is really tough. At least she lived a long life and managed to see all her kids have their own kids … 😉

  • mahmood
    17 May 2004

    Re(2): Confused

    😆 thanks for the glossary of terms, we should start a whole page for that and refer people to it! Especially the UFO’s definition!!!

    Thanks for your wishes re my grandmother, she was a great lady and yes she has had a full life and saw not only her children’s children, but her children’s children’s children! May Allah allow her soul to rest in peace.

    Come on now, back to work!

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Greeting My fellow human Being
    I believe the choice of me going to heaven or not is really not up to you but rather Allah Himself. so peace be with you.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    TERROR LINKS OR HONOUR KILLING

    I don’t see his murder has anything to do with revenge on the abuse in Abu Ghraib prison or any terrorist network.

    I think this is about honour killing. The guy is so outgoing and i think what motivates him to go to the middle east is because of a middle eastern woman. that’s what got him killed.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    As I grow older, I become more disappointed with how civilized humans behave. I would like to take my kids to live somewhere secluded and away from all this, but the only place left to go is antartica. How sad God must be when he looks upon most of his sons and daughters in the world. Would you make the seat of your religon in a place where this kind of violence has been going on for 4 thousand years?

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    christianity, judaism and islam. all in the same region. intersting, isnt it.

    And the first murder? Cain and Abel. ‘I am not my brother’s keeper’.

    what does that say about human nature?

    we cant afford to go to antartica – we have to all stay and battle it out – fight for tolerance and whats right.

    (it might help if more people realized that jesus was not a blue eyed blonde but a brown eyed ‘arab’ a semite definitely ??)

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    The words no blood for oil make me sick. Everyone knows this is not about oil. This is about a sick, disgusting religion that preaches death to infidels. The things that took place in this video happen every day in muslim countries. We are just taking notice because it is a western victim. This was not payback for prison abuse, this was a sick religion carrying out a sick deed. People seem to forget that we as americans have a bad ass military, and if we wanted to behave in a manner like they do, the whole of the muslim world could have been fucked up without thought. They ought to be glad our military has restrained itself

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    if you feel so strongly about your fucked up religion, do something to change it. i am so disgusted that the entire palestinian society does nothing to stop suicide bombers. do any of these bombers have a father figure? maybe if someone from these societies looked after their children, they would not let them become martyrs. their fathers probably blew themselves up. palestinians are lucky the jews are good people, or they would have been run into the sea years ago. The US would not tolerate such acts from mexico, and israel shoudl be allowed to exact revenge.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    is that why ubl dolls and cereal are available in the middle east?

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re: Insurgency of stupidity

    when you put good people, who have seen what these animals have done, in charge of such animals, you get people treated like animals. no apologies should be given. the military should treat animals like animals. we have seen what these people do in the berg video, countless suicide bombings, and on september 11th. These people want to fight like animals, and should be treated that way.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Let me repeat what has been said in case somebody didn’t understand.
    STOP BLAMING US (americans who oppose war)
    WE ARE SICK OF HEARING YOU PUT US DOWN
    WE HAVE GOTTEN TO THE POINT OF INDIFFERENCE BECAUSE OF ARROGANT ‘NON-AMERICANS’ TAKING EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO TELL AN AMERICAN (north american) HOW LOUSY OUR COUNTRY IS AND WHO GO ON AND ON AND ON ABOUT HOW THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IS EVIL, HOW THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT MURDERS, STEALS, HUMILIATES, RAPES, TORTURES ETC.
    I just dont give a **** anymore.
    I work hard.
    I pay my bills.
    I study.
    I vote.
    Yet, my voice is not heard.
    no one hears
    Why?
    Because I am invisible to the American government.
    Why?
    I am poor.
    I am single with no children.
    I am not religious.
    I don’t own property.
    I am not on welfare or food stamps.
    I AM PART OF, YET APART FROM, AMERICA.

    jUST SAY NO TO DIRTY MONEY, DIRTY POLITICS, AND PLEASE PRACTICE YOUR RELIGION PEACEFULLY, DO NOT DISTURB PEOPLE LIKE ME, IF YOU GUYS WANT TO FIGHT OVER WHOSE SIDE GOD IS ON, THAN WHY DONT YOU JUST GO OUT INTO THE DESERT, AWAY FROM PEOPLE, AND DO EACH OTHER IN

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    you advocate that americans do not know what animals they are up against?

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Two wrongs do not make a right, but when people understand force and destruction, that is how you communicate with them. If we are soft with them, which i believe we have been, then they will have no reason to end their inhuman behaviour. if we treat them like the animals they are, we might instill a bit of fear into them.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    lol. these stupid dolls and cereal are not manufactured here my friend .. they are manufactured in asia! does that mean that the asians are taking sides in this war? no – it means that someone saw an opportinity to make money ..

    these dolls aint a big deal. certainly not as big a deal as naif of saudi saying that it is a zionist plot. or bush saying that this war is a crusdade. and certainly not as important as people confusing between the war on terror and the war in iraq ….

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Steve!!

    I see you have been posting. But, now, I discover that you have a sense of humor. Skewed. Twisted. But its there.

    UFO’s are vegetarian, my friend. They dont east cheese burgers. They have veggie burgers.

    Moses and Jesus and even our own glorious Mo spent a lot of time alone trying to deal with the responsability bestowed upon them by God. If it were a woman, she wouldnt have had to deal with all that angst and would have just got on with the job.

    Besides – those 10 commandments are a bit too long any wyas. ‘Thou shall not covet they neighbours wife?’ I think that was written for men – not women. How about, ‘Thou shall not participate in the dumbing down of the most important public in the most important superpower in the world by claiming to have Him on your side?’

    Bring Hillary back into the White House … at least we know she aint going to be too busy chasing booty to actually let that interfere in her doing her job right ..

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Have you heard of the KKK???!!!! (ooops – not faith based, but color … hmmmm. but you get the point?!)

    incidentally – do you know who persecuted the jews the most in the 20th century? it wasnt the arabs – it was the europeans. are you going to call them savage too? or wil you withhold that accusation from the UK because they sided with you agasint the war?

    steve – peeps on this post aint as ignorant or as hate filled as u would like.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    and who is buying them?

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    well .. i just read in the UFO blog that they only reason they kidnap people from America is because they are trying to see why there is such a huge gap between brain capacity and brain usage …

    😉

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    stupid dolls have a profound effect on the children who own them and view them as heroes.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    The FBI did visit Mr. Berg one time in NY after the 11-09-2001 and the CIA detained him for 13 days in Iraq

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    It’s funny how they discount the fears of christians and jews about a demonstrable threat of muslim aggression and poopoo it as wacky conspiracy theories. Yet the neo con zionist is held as scientific fact. You’re starting to piss off the american street and that, as histroy has shown and will show again is a big mistake….

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Hi there

    I am truly amused by this common US way of thinking in which they believe that their country is the guardian of peace in this world. Hello…people…wake up!! read international news papers, try to understand what your government is concealing from you through their immaculately manipulated media. I did not say that Sadam is an angel, I said that years ago and I still say it he is a bustard. But who brought him to power and supported him twice to become the leader and then gave him all the technology to gas the Iranians and then his own people in the north. Well, the answer for those questions is in three letters, C.I.A.

    The famous scene of the downing of Sadam’s statue in the centre of Baghdad was well orchestrated; the same people were scene in different cities doing the same thing in front of the international news agents who were so mesmerised by the scene.

    The invasion of Iraq was planned years ago and don’t tell me that the US government care for the Iraqi people and take this for an example. After the bombardment of Baghdad all kind of telecommunications were severely damaged. The Iraqi people had no way to know what was happening even few blocks away from their homes. Both the Bahraini and Kuwaiti telecommunication companies came in right after the fall of the former regime and managed to provide an adequate service for cellular phones in Baghdad. But guess what, the US government ordered them out of the country and that was for one reason, to allow for better competition. The people of Iraq lost that service for months till the US telecommunication companies brought back. Ah…one more thing, to make it difficult for any Arab telecommunication company to come back to Iraq, the US government made a new condition; that is any company with governments owning 90% or above of its shares cannot compete in Iraq!?

    Yes this is how much the American government care for the Iraqi people

    For better understanding of the horrors of this war please take a look at this site

    http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

    Fuad (A lover of real democracy, not the US type)

  • mahmood
    17 May 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    The wahabi interpretation of Islam absolutely forbids toys for children. Further, it forbids creating any likeness to man as they believe that this is the exclusive domain of Allah. Hence, the dolls will probably be used by children as Barbies, putting nice dresses on them, which if it were the case, then Osama would have never looked better!

    So in essence, not only do we have a problem with the West understand us, but this clearly shows the the East doesn’t either!

    Time to bring in a good PR firm I think!

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re: Confused

    Well said mate…and I hope that the UFO’s would bring me to Bahrain along with them because I miss it so much

    Fuad

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    U PEOPLE!

    “If we keep bowing down to the Americans, our honor is at stake. Those people are heroes. I only hope there are more like them. Allah is great!” <--- Do you know how many THERAPY U NEED!! Allah teach you to cut the head of a human being? All you care is your HONOUR. U know wat,u r sick in the head?! Look i m not siding with no one here. No one is rite in this matter. The U.S attack Iraq,just to get Saddam out of the country.U.S is solving one problem,but creating 5 problems! Look wat they have done to Iraq nothing but chaos.Tell me it is not true that U.S is eyeing for the OIL. Nobody is a hero here. U.S fight their own beleive and the terrorist fight their own beleive as well. Who to say who is right or wrong? The terrorist should not get their religious involve. They use the name of "ALLAH" to execute Americans (Nick Berg). I wonder is that the teaching of Muslim? All religious is the same. They teaches us GOOD! All humans are the same,because we have our own beleive that makes us feel different. I cut u and u cut me,u see is blood. Doesnt mean muslim blood is brown,or christian blood is white. Because of political issues,make us hates each other! GOD BLESS NICK BERG.AMEN

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    You’re right, me not being an american. And more than making better choices, have a better super-power stretegy for enduring: as i once heard: USA: 30% of the wealth of the planet, 50% of the military budget, 5% of the population. Sustainable without creating a foundation of positive agendas with the other 95%? Fighting terrorism with (just) repression is like putting out fire with gasoline. True Diplomacy and a vision for the world and understanding of other civilisations within is required for any clever empire to last. And guerrila (of which terrorism is a form), as Sun Tzu would say in the art of war, is the only effective method for the weak to combat. Thus, trying to make them any weaker will make them stronger, with the side effect of gradually loosing any hope of any moderate majority to remain. For a systems engineer this would be what one would call an ‘unstable, highly derivative system’. Such systems – if to be ‘controlled’ – need to have the right feeedback loops to stabilise into global order – or else, disruption (in this case, initial disruption or ‘butterfly effect’ may have been Clinton, leading to Monica Lewinski, leading to Gore loosing (sort of), leading to Bushism & US Militarism rising, leading to 9-11, leading to Shock and Awe, leading to… discontinuity of the present world order (which might not necessarily be worse in general, but worse in the opinion of many – New Orders are painful to create these days. So in any case lots of suffering still to come, and politicians ever more hopeless… ONE WISH: we will entangle western and muslim thinking one way or another beyond absolutes, morphing these civilisations into something new and more familiar to all, so we can all live today as if we’re more alike than different. This or we all learn Chinese.

  • mahmood
    17 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    thank you Meggie

  • mahmood
    17 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Do you truly think that they need an excuse? I believe that they have practiced terror (thought and action) for so long that it has just become their way of life. They don’t need an excuse. Even an amoeba has more intelligence AND sense of honour than these animals. So lay off the “honour killing” bit, there is no honour in killing a fellow human being.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    WELL, NOW WE UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH THOSE MUSLISMS OR THE IRAQI PEOPLE HATE US. THEY DO NOT FREAKING UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE THERE TO HELP. SO WHY THE FUCK WE THERE? LOOK OUR SOLDIRES DYING EVERY FREAKING SINGLE DAY USELESSLY. AND THE ECONOMY IS GETTING MESSED UP. 4.2 BILLION DOLLARS PER MONTH. WHAT THE FUCK? IT IS WORTH WE WOULD HAVE TO SPEND THOSE TO UPBRINGING HOMELESS PEOPLE IN OUR OWN HOMELAND WHICH IS AT LEAST WORTH RATHER THAN WASTING MONEY LIKE THIS USELESSLY. BEFORE MORE HEADS ARE CUT OFF, IT IS BETTER TO MIND OUR OWN BUSINESSES. IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK WORLD TRADE CENTERS. WE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT. NOW PEOPLE HATE US BECAUSE WE ARE THERE TO DIMINISH THEIR LIVES IN THEIR POINT OF VIEW. I CANNOT IMAGINE WHY WE FREAKING THERE.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Insurgency of stupidity

    Be careful who you label as “animal” lest ye be one….[quote]Up to 90 percent of Iraqi detainees were arrested “by mistake,’ according to coalition intelligence officers cited in a Red Cross report disclosed Monday. It also says U.S. officers mistreated inmates at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison by keeping them naked in dark, empty cells.[/quote] [url]http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204~21474~2139895,00.html[/url]

    You can’t just label everyone as animal, because it’s most definitely not the case. Some have done horrendous acts, and for that I hope they are punished. But [b]that doesn’t make it okay to label all as animals[/b]. And for the matter, I don’t care if they are all animals or not, if we allow such horrible and offensive acts to happen in our name, then we become the animals.

    As to Nick Berg’s death, well.. there’s no way in hell such an act should be defended. Murder is murder. And those who killed Nick Berg are murderers. No ifs, ands, or buts.

  • mahmood
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Allah is Great indeed. For He has given us brains to think with and a conscience to ascertain right from wrong, those two main traits of humanity is absent from any other of His great creations.

    These things you call heroes have brought more shame and sullied our collective Muslim honour than the Americans ever did. They have proved without a shadow of a doubt that they lack conscience and thinking, hence they must be nothing but animals.

    If you truly want to defend the honour of Islam, then it is your duty as a Muslim not to join them.

  • mahmood
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    What, and give up?

    My friend, with power comes responsibility. As the US is the most powerful nation on earth, it does have at least the moral responsibility to make things better. If you do give up, then every single life which has been lost including Nick’s would have been in vain.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    …and now the head of IDU and the IGC was just killed by an ambush, or car bomb in Bagdad. The end of June is coming too fast! Soon there will be no one left but the terrorists! Another dark day in Iraq!

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    It saddens me that you think this is over OIL. Don’t the Iraqi children deserve clean water, schools and electricity (among other things our BRAVE soldiers and American are doing at this minute). I am so SICK of American whining about Bush!! It’s about time we had a president stand up to these terrorists! By the way if we are there for only OIL why is my gas over $2.00 a gallon.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I would hardly say that barbaric acts are a thing of the past. Just read the news. Here in America we have serial killers, parents killing their kids, pediphiles, rapists, people going postal, kids shooting kids in school, gangland shootings, corrupt police and politicians, I could go on and on. Not that we don’t have good stuff here too, but you get the point.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Does anyone know nick bergs date of birth ?

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    everything is collapsing, terror all over the world, fear and injustice everywhere. I strongly feel that the end of the world is coming and its really closer than it ever was.

  • anonymous
    17 May 2004

    Re(1): Insurgency of stupidity

    Please, let’s not insult animals in this manner. Animals do not behead other animals and then gloat about… animals do not force other animals to masturbate in a group for fun.

    Chan’ad

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Thank you for this blog. It’s nice to know that not all of humanity is inhumane. I have hope that one day we all can just learn to get along. There really is no alternative. It starts with one person, choosing to try. And then another, and another, don’t ever give in to hatred. It may capture your soul sometimes, but keep your mind open and the light will eventually shine in. Peace.

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    as’kum, all religion around the world teach us guide on how to live on earth and how to go to heaven… which is in our believes..

    so the act of killing other people are WRONG… especially the innocent people.. which conclude that the act of killing nick berg are WRONG to any religion and wrong to the humanity…

    …..i wonder why we keep blaming other people rather than ourself, are we good enough? are we deserve not to be blame by others…

    fr.my

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    the saudi press taking stupidly about eichmann – david duke(ex KKK) talking stupidly as part of the US government .. we all have our nuts…

    but – the saudi govt has recently declared war on the terrorists, did they not? is that not enough for you? or at least, is not that a decent enough first step?

    and this is the second time that someone western has brought up the jews and israel in response to the middle east. what you dont understand is that there is a problem with zioinism here – not with judaism. we have jewish families in bahrain who live quite well, thank you very much. in fact, we, here, have probably more in common with the jews who marched in the peace rally in tel aviv a few days ago than we do with ari sharon … so please dont throw the ‘anti semitic’ card at me ..

    so back off a bit …

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    oh … and this deserves applause??

    “I don’t doubt it. Obviously the answer is to get you first before you get us. May I also note that here in America people of any faith can walk around in perfect safety, unlike your savage neighborhood.
    Steve ”

    Think before you write – think before you speak – and for the love of god – if you have anything to do with this current administration -think before you act. Before you realize ist – you will have strengthened the very enemy you are trying to fight – alienating your friends in the process.

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    lol. size aint all that matters buddy. what about wisdom??

  • [deleted]0.44130000 1099323329.268
    18 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    How sad that we can not just live in peace with one another. What justification is there for killing in the name of religion?? The United States of America was founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION! Do you think that God/Allah can not handle His own affairs?? Oh ye of little faith!

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(1): Confused

    fuad ..

    i guess u missed the ride .. the ufo’s have all landed here already .. they disguise themselves behind long beards… or brown shirts.

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(7): Nick Berg

    David Duke was never part of the US government, though he ran for office several times. The people would not elect him. He is in prison now. You seem to have a lot of your facts mixed up, which may be why you have a distorted view of the US.

    David Duke is a lone nut. The KKK is a criminal organization. The KSA is a government. Those are important differences. The views of Duke and the KKK have no support in the USA. Al Qaeda’s views have wide support among Saudis and are funded by Saudi prince’s, the government of Saudi Arabia. That is an important distinction as well.

    The Saudis were OK with Al Qaeda killing foreigners. They did not mind when Al Qaeda killed Westerners in Saudi Arabia. They did not oppose Al Qaeda until it started killing Saudis and challenging their power.

    The Saudis are not against terror as long as it isn’t directed against them.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    The previous poster to which I responded threatened to cut my head off if I were to visit Bahrain. It’s rather straightfoward to say the answer to such violence is to preempt it. And really, somebody who casually threatens to decapitate me is hardly my friend. Anybody who objects to neutralizing such a threat is no friend either. Any neighborhood that makes such threats and performs on them is indeed savage. Your objection is simply feeble-minded. The only way to deal with thugs is with overwhelming force.

    However, since you’re such a deep thinker. feel free to lay out the better response in your view.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    as a moslem myself, i disagree with you wholeheartedly my friend. i dont think our ‘brother’s have been humiliated, nor do i think we need to avenge anyone.

    what is happeneing in iraq is an iraqi problem. it is not a moslem problem. i dont think islam is the answer – because there are so many idiots out there who claim to have the only moslem answer.

    so speak for yourself, and not for me or for the tons of moderate moslems out there.

    and since you are all for killing yourself for what you beleive – why arent you out there already? or do you like armchair wars??

    give me a break and lay off speaking in the name of islam when there are thousands of moslems who dont agree with you. grow up and realize that we cannot go anywhere until we all learn how to live with each other first. and it wont start by killing people.

    and if u do decide to go into therpay – i’ll help pay for it.

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Fuad ..

    If you are going to palce blame on the United States for their prior support for Iraq – then the GCC countries are complicit allies in this as well.

    We ALL preferred Iraq to counterweigh Iran at the time. It was called dual containment.

    And – there is a lot to learn from how the United States is run as a country. Don’t knock it because you don’t like their foriegn policy. The quality of life that it affords its middle class beats any other country in the world. Bar none.

    A Bahraini

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    there is good and bad in every race and religon, these people who cut off the head of nick berg are the worst of the muslim religon and will be delt with either here or in the after life. but dont think their actions will make us afraid they will make us fight harder. since 9/11
    more americans have joined or tried to join the military since world war two. americans are not afraid to die how do you think we became america. its just that we believe in making the enemy die for their cause!

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    I’m not ready to die for my beliefs, but I am more than ready to make you die for yours

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    “but the world’s barbaric acts are of the past and should stay that way”

    that’s what i said, I never said there arn’t any barbaric acts that are currently going on, dumbass!, I meant that we should stop them now and make them be long gone, get it??? MEANING A FRESH START !

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Everyone should follow the Dalai Lama if they want a better world.

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    why do you ONLY rise up against the west? why not the torture, despotism and bigotry practiced by your own leaders? WHY?

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    This is a foolish, racist, and wrong comment.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    Have you heard what the FBI and US Government did to the KKK? Do you know the KKK has been crushed, its leaders in jail or ruined? What is your government doing to crush the Islamic terrorists?

    Yes, I certainly do call the Europeans who carried out the Holocaust savages as does every civilized person. The Nazis were barbarians. You have your facts mixed up, though. There were no death camps in the UK. However, if you are convinced there were, please name them.

    So now that we both agree that the Europeans who persecuted the Jews were savages, why are the Arabs using Nazi propaganda verbatim to persecute Jews? When the Israelis convicted Eichman, the Nazi who managed the Final Solution, why did the Saudi press describe him as the man “who had the honor of killing six million Jews.” How do you explain that? Wouldn’t you say it is worse for a government like Saudi Arabia to target an ethnic group than for a criminal organization like the KKK?

    Steve

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    You’re wrong. The majority of Iraqis want the US to stay and keep the peace. Only a minority hate us, mostly those Sunnis who held a privileged position under Saddam. To cut and run when we suffer casualties is simply cowardice. We must relentlessly pursue this to the end and face down our foes implacably.

    Iraq is our business. The Middle East is our business because their problems show up in our country in suicide jets. We can not ignore that. We tried ignoring it in the 1990s which simply stored up trouble for the future. The smoking World Trade Center and three thousand dead Americans is the result of ignoring the problem.

    Iraq very likely did play a role in the Sep 11 attacks. Atta met with an Iraqi agent in Prague. The leaders of the attacks on the WTC had false identities provided by Iraq. Those are solid links.

    There’s also the rather common sense observation that Al Qaeda did not have the expertise to pull off the Sep 11 attacks. Al Qaeda does not do hijackings. September 11 was their only one. Al Qaeda does simple attacks, making big bombs and driving them to where the infidels are. The hijacking expertise came from outside Al Qaeda. The complexity of the plan, the training required, and the discipline with which it was executed are indicative of a professional intelligence organization, not a religious mafia living in the Afghan wasteland.

    The reason why we fight in Iraq is to bring a new birth of freedom to the Middle East, which is the antidote to Islamic extremism. Democracy and tyranny are incompatible. One or the other will rule. We favor democracy and the freedom to own property, to vote for a government that represents you rather than itself, to speak your mind freely in public, to gather in public with whomever you please. These also are the prerequisites for creating wealth by unlocking the potential of people to manage their own affairs. In short, we are in Iraq to ensure that government of the people, by the people, for the people does not perish from the Earth.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    It’s true. Our brains are way bigger than we need. We can pretty much outwit the rest of the world at 5% utilization.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Hi mate

    I did not deny any of what you said and I am not closing my mind or not learning from the experience of the others. We did help Iraq with money and weapons for many reasons, some of them were facts and many others were pure delusions

    I am not a person who likes to blame the others all the time for everything, the reason they are behaving in that manner with us is because we are weak and susceptible to their abuse

    But did you ask yourself how is the US achieving this economical prosperity? Their internal policy is deeply linked with their external one and it is all based on the policy of facilitating, maintaining and opening new markets regardless of the methods used in doing so.

    It is better not to mix the cards please; my previous posts were about the case of Mr. Berg nothing else and nothing more. And the whole idea of it was not to increase hostility between us, and when I say us I mean the inhabitants of this planet.

    Cheers

    Fuad

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Nick Berg—GENERAL COMMENT >>NEED ANSWERS

    this is my first time looking thru discussions like this ….only after seeing nick bergs beheading video i thgt i shld put my view also……the fact is that muslims have to thnk for a sec……..abt their religion….where is it going….i dont know any country in this world known as a muslim country without having problems….where ever these guys are its F$#@! UP………today one funny thing happened while i was working (i have many collegues with me who are muslims frm diff countries)…. the guy was listening to some audio from some site….it was claiming americans did the behading of nick berg bcoz if u listen close to the audio message u can here …THY WILL BE DONE…. its funny ….but the fact is this guy & many peole i know r PhD holders….(thts max u can go education wise)…he believes that crap ……wht ever u try to say to these people they just … find fault in christinaity or judaism it not western things ….westerners in muslim talk means christians & jews..
    another friend of mine from a 3rd world country says the only enemy they have are JEWS….& the funny part is he is frm a country where common people dont have proper infrastucture …..& he hates jews …where he got the idea of jews…is it frm MOSQUES where they get the teaching s frm ….
    one question to the readers please clarify if i am wrong …frm wht i know there is no religion in this world other than islam which preaches violence ….?????
    secondly…….in many anti islam discussion sites i saw people writing abt mohamed (their prophet) as a person with 11 wives & most of them where in the aged 8-14…he also married his adopted sons wife…(tht sucks …..disgusting)..wht a leader these guys have…..one more thing is ..i heard according to islam when a guy dies for religion means killing himself with a bomb hurting innocent people….he goes to paradise where he gets 72 wives & WINE…..wht a fucking religion ,…. ….we cannot expect more
    please…. if muslims are also involved in these discussions please correct me if u know how to read khuran coz i heard most of them dont know how to read arabic ……they mug it up…….

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    I say let them kill eachother off, then we americans go in and kill all the rest. If they can do nothing but create violence and chaos, they have no place on this earth. I do not believe in any sort of religion, there is no god to me just a rotting corpse in the ground. Which is were all the “ragheads” deserve to be. There is no justification in killing someone just because he is american.

  • anonymous
    18 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Thank you for your suggestion. I am sure therapy helps. Still it doesn’t change the fact that we muslims need to rise up and avenge our humuliated brothers. Why are so afraid of the west? We have oil and they need us more than we need them. So old nick died. tough luck.We muslims need to show the world that they cannot mess around with us. We are ready to meet our creator. We are ready to die. Are you normal, westerner ready to die for what you believe?

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    I agree with u. Revolations of the bible lines up with alot that is going on right now

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    I agree with the moderator of this site. I was raised in Chicago surrounded by every race creed and culture. I have great empathy for the people of the middle east. I can only imagine what it is like to be brainwashed by radical clerics who believe killing innocent life is the answer. Education is the key because if these people knew the lives they could have if they worked with the world community I beleive that they would change their tune.
    And for the Nationalistic Americans(my twin brother) who believe that it should be our way or no way. Think again. This is quickly becoming a world community and unless we learn how to live together there will be some serious problems in the future. And remember that the downfall of every civilization is their imperialistic nature. Even the great Rome fell.

  • mahmood
    19 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Well said. You’re the first to recognise that this is NOT a local/American/Iraqi or whatever problem but rather a global one and what you say about the whole world is a community rather than distinct geographies is absolutely true.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Thank God that you are not to judge civilization. We as human beings are not fit to judge anyone. We are too flawed to do so. God is perfect in all his qualities and it is best to allow HIm to do the judging. I would call you hypocritical, but then I would be judging you……

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    do you believe that God will forgive this? hero? do you know about Hero? he was a greek ancient. not a modern human animal hiding behind God. Only God can judge. We all know this to be true. Asshole.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    A genuinely imbecilic post. Looks to me like a piss poor excuse of an Islamist to get out of criticising fellow Islamist murderers of Nick Berg.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    hey asshole, why dont you cut your own head, that way you’ll be a real hero or better yet, ask those coward extremist to behead you. Allah loves all kind of people equally, stop hating, you are so ignorant!

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Steve,

    One of the traits I do not like in the Arab Culture is that often times, when we disagree with each other, and we cannot get our points across, we revert to getting very personal/ emotional with each other.

    In fact, you display this trait quite well in your comments about being feeble minded and the sarcastic reference to the ‘deep thinker’ above. There is no need.

    But since you ask for my response about what to do when you are participating in a blog that can either highten the difference between the US and ‘Islam’ or actually and increase the understanding between either – and you get an assonine threat from some idiot who will probably never get to meet you in real life – I would ignore it. Like I, representing the Middle Eastern view, have chosen to ignore some of the crude insults that have come across.

    It is not worth it. If you respond at that level in the manner that you have, you have indirectly fueled their cause. Look back at this blog and think honestly about whether you have contributed to a deterioration in the level of discussion, or whether you have hightened it.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(8): Nick Berg

    Three Points.

    1. At one point, before KKK was labeled as a criminal organization, they had some significant support from the police and probably high ranking members of the local society. Once KKK was labeled a criminal organization – things changed. Ditto for Saudi Arabia.

    2. The views of Duke and the KKK have no current support in the USA. But, at one point, they had significant support.

    3. The Saudis were OK about Al Qaeda killing foriegners like the CIA was OK with Al Qaeda (in its initial stages) killing Russians.

    4. Significant amounts of money were channelled from Boston to the IRA at one point, was it not??

    Steve – I am not pro Al Qaeda. I am not pro terrorism. But, for Chrissake .. please accept that the way that you are framing your case makes others extremely defensive. Do NOT claim the moral highground based on virute.

    I will give you and the USG the highground in creating one of the best systems of capitalism around … an American from the middle class will live a much better life than his equivalent anywhere else in the world … BUT .. you dont claim exclusivity on the moral highground of values, irrespective of what your election year politics look like.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    you cannot talk about this subject without mentioning the palestinians. interesting how you used the word, however. not one muslim will condemn the murder of innocent civillians without using the word however, or but. why can you not just say, no matter what, there is no excuse for killing innocent civillians? The US cannot afford to not support israel, because we are at war with the same people. the weapons, the twisted media, and lack of condemnation from surrounding countries only fuel this fire. Israel happens to have more balls than the US, though, because they will deal with this problem violently if they have to, and don’t have a problem telling the world to go to hell if they don’t like it. Interesting why Israel is expected to allow these people into their country, and no one asks why other countries will not step up and allow them into their country as refugees. If neighboring countries truly felt bad for the palestinians, why not take them in? Nobody wants them, they just want to fuel terrorist money to them so they can carry on their INTIFADAH with Jews.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    General Comment – Attempt at a Response

    Interesting.

    Now we get to the heart of the matter. Which is .. Nick Berg aside, and Iraq side and US Foreign Policy aside .. what are we, the Moslems, going to do about Islam.

    Before I even attempt to address some of the issues raised above, I am going to raise all the caveats. Bottom Line, I am not a Moslem scholar. Having said that ….

    The Koran and Prophet Mohammed both emerged during a specific time and place in history. Many of the values that he was trying to instill was in direct reference to the temporal issues of the time. What people forget is that the rule of law in Mecca and Medina at the time was based on strong tribal norms and cultures. And these ‘laws’ were not exactly the most fair or comprehensive of laws. I think the Prophet did his best, at the time, to move things forward. Like all leaders though, he was limited by where he started from.

    An example. Look at the emphasis that is put on cleaning before prayer. There is so much detail about what to do when there is no water to clean with, and how to use sand instead. If one were to go by the spirit of the law, the emphasis is put on cleanliness. If one were to go by the book of the law, the emphasis is then on how many grams of sand, etc. Point is – the Prophet was trying to introduce some hygiene at the time. Which is why eating meat from pigs was also ‘banned’. (BSE anyone?)

    Regarding women. This is an interesting one. I think the Prophet did alot for women at the time. At least, inheritance, marriage, civil code governeing women was all codified into the Koran. At the time, it meant that different tribal leaders HAD to stop being subjective in how they dealt with these issues. There was now some sort of law of the land. I am convinced that, at the time, this brought more consistency and offered more systemic and insitutionalized protection to women than it had previosuly.

    But – now we get to the main problem in Islam. Which is, what was right and appropriate and forward looking at the time of Mohammed, may not be applicable today!

    To understand this – we need to talk about ‘ijtihad’. Which inidentally,comes from the arabic root of ‘jihd’ which means ‘effort’. It is the same root for jihad.

    Ijtihad in Islam effectively means the ability to reinterpret the scriptures and study them in order to innovate our understanding of what they mean and how they apply today. Islam tried to avoid the problem that Christianity faced with having an interpreter between man and God – (the pope). (Incidentally, in Arabic, we call him Al Baba, the Father). So – man was allowed to practice Ijtihad and reinterpret and study the scriptures.

    What happened in reality is that this ‘critical thinking’ was killed. It was stopped by force. Man found that it is easier to govern each other by promising absolutes and moral authority (Bush anyone?) than by allowing each individual to interpret and make a concerted effort to understand and incorporate the teachings of this religion.

    And so, we have some idiots like the Wahhabists who claim that only thier version counts.

    Add to that the fact that Islam is younger than Christianity and Judaism .. and if we trace the relationship between Church and State in Europe – we realize that we have some while to go before we ‘mature’ into secular states. Or rather, states where all denominations, even that of Moslems, are protected by civil code.

    (Right now – for example, the Shia are not allowed to demonstrate during Ashoora in Saudi Arabia. Nor were they allowed to do that in Iraq pre Saddam).

    So … yes, there does need to be a reformation in Islam. I dont think that the majority of the Moslems realized how bad the extremsits had gotten until 9-11. I also think that some of the criticism that is leveled here against Islam puts most of the moderates on guard and on edge – because the criticism isnt really that fair or objective. (For example – in reference to the preaching of violence – Cain and Abel were the first sons! And one killed the other! Thats not really a Moslem phenomenon now, is it ….)

    For those who follow this blog and local politics, watch what is happening with Al Wifaq. They are essentially a sectarian society that gleans significant legitimacy from its consituents based on a combination of religion and anti government. they boycotted the previous parliamentary elections. Some of their rationale was valid, others werent.

    We have elections coming up in a few years. Watch the dynamics that operate. Watch how they are trying to galvanize the popular support on the street by trying to replace the role that the legal and constitutional opposition have. Watch how they use religion. And watch how the street reacts. This is a small example of Political Islam in action.

    As for the academic and intellectual reformation in Islam? I have no clue how that is going to start. I would suggest that someone who is more familiar with what happened in Christianity explain the history so that we can see whether there are any patterns we can learn from.

    Why didnt I choose Judaism? Simple. Because I dont think the Jews have yet to deal with the issue of a secular state. Yet. The political identity of the Jews is now 100% linked to Zionism. they havent separated church from state. Israelis can get nationality based on religion. (Although – demographics alone might force their hand in about 20 years when they will have a majority of non Jews living in their land. )

    And that, my friends, is that for the moment.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(2): Insurgency of stupidity

    there is a problem with muslim societies. rather than condemn terrorism, they reach to justify it. The soldiers did not ask to be there. The soldiers see a people they are there to help turn against them every day. They see dead come back, or just hear reports, how the people they are there to help killed their friends, or someone they cared for in their unit. we ask them to be patient, and put all that aside. we ask them to put aside the fact that these people will endanger women and children to kill us. We ask them to die for a people who do not want a change. is it so unbelievable that these people would treat their captives poorly? I don’t think so. I call these people animals because there is a problem in their society. They do nothing to put an end to this. When someone is at war, there are no innocents. The people living in a society create the munitions,the anger,and the philosophy behind what their people are doing. Why are the families of suicide bombers, militants, and insurgents, telling them to stop? devote their energies to something useful? This is not a war the insurgents are going to win. Maybe because they believe the US has backed out before. I don’t think anyone realizes that september eleventh killed more people since the attack on pearl harbor. This battle was brought to us. I think the world community under estimates the will and power of the american people. I think if countries thinks that we will change presidents, and back down, they are woefully wrong. Bush is the next president, like it or not. Bush will be a stronger president in his second term, and the war on terror will have new fronts.
    This will make muslims unhappy because they will not have kerry to push around. In order to avoid world war, muslims will have to step up, put an end to terrorism in their borders, and denounce terrorism. So far no muslim country has done this, and will have to think about their future when bush is reelected.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    This is from an american. I think that if people like those who killed Nick Burg were more common then the wolrd would be a mess and if there wernt a united states there wouldn’t be anyone to clean what mess there is and set dumb people straight. My sincerest appolgies to the family of Nick Burg who was murderd by a bunch of retards who find the most defense less person to make an example out of.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    one does not have to understand its enemy to destroy it when it has the weapons to do so. there is no motivation for me to understand when i am so pissed. I hope you all go to hell

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    do your people not have the moral responsibility to put an end to terrorism themselves? I suppose it is ok because you have been wronged. This would explain why every muslim will say, i do not support the actions against israel, BUT! If you want to get along with the US, just get rid of the BUT!

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(2): Insurgency of stupidity

    it is ok for us to be animals when dealing with animals. if these people wanted to change, they would

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    I do admit i am veering towards the ‘ leave the moslems to implode’ scenario. The wests misguided atempts to ‘help’ is truly one sided and arrogent on our part.

    We cannot interfere in the evolution of a cultural society’s destiny.

    We in the west need to put up the sandbags and prepare to defend ourselves, you will export your hatred towards us because you have NO OUTLET to target in your own countries because your leaders will either torture, prison or kill you! So you target your rage towards peoples of free speech.

    I am aware that I should not generalise BUT your countries NEED to go through this evolution on your own in order to become a part of the world community as viable contributors.

    You need to do this without the west interfering.

    It is evolution, no more innocents need die for a cause that is regional and from the west’s point of view (a relic of their own past) backwards… get on with it, evolve and become a part of the world and its future or regress into barbarism.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    what crap!

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(2): Confused

    I hope they’ll not try to enslave us otherwise it will turn into planet of the apes

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    Israel are backward idiots, no more, no less! So are the Palestinians although they have been provoked BUT the worst assholes in the world are the stupid so called arab states and peoples who ‘pretend’ to be horrified and shocked over the palestinian treatment…… how many arabs joined the international community in protesting (sometimes with their lives) how many of you come out of your little government protected shells to stand up for your so called Palestinian brithers? I hear you every day talk about how stupid/thick/backward they are….. you are all piss merchants. The western human rights groups do more for the palestinians than you ever will or care to do……. take a moment to sit and get bloody real… you do nothing except BLAME and pass on stupis conspirecy theories……. target your selve to your TRUE enemies PLEASE… or else you risk so much more than you can contemplate… PEACE TO ALL

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    hello!!!

    al qaeda are rising up against their own leaders and the west!! the bombings in spain, in riyadh, the planes in nyc ….. these guys are out to get everyone!

    as far as i am concerned, an ordinary bahraini citizen, my leadership might not what it could – but they sure as hell beat al qaeda. so – ill take my leadership and live with them, thank you very much.

  • kaka
    19 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    You guys are being too retarded!

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    [quote]BUT…look at how the American people have treated their people. Women and children die there everyday, their cities are in shambles, the prison humiliations, everything destroyed over greed for oil, [/quote]

    You are seriously misinformed. Iraq is recovering, though out of sight of the liberal Western media and the Arab press. Here are the facts:

    The CPA has formed 88 neighborhood advisory councils which are sending representatives to nine district councils which send reps to the Baghdad City Advisory Council to form a democracy from the ground up. Iraqi salaries are rising, in one typical case from $17 per month to $300. Retired government employeess are getting real pensions. The new Iraqi Minister of Labour and Public Affairs is taking care of 80,000 needy families and will take care of 300,000 in the near future. Five million kids are back in school with Saddam purged from their textbooks. Thousands of Iraqi academics have returned home from abroad to teach them in a reverse brain-drain from the West, where they fled Saddam’s tyranny. One hundred thousand healthcare professionals have re-opened 240 re-opened hospitals and 1,200 clinics, rebuilding a healthcare industry neglected and starved of funds by Saddam. Iraq has sold $9 billion worth of crude oil since the end of the war of which $9.28 billion have been deposited by the Coalition Provisional Authority in its Development Fund for Iraq. The US government has budgeted $18.4 billion to rebuild the infrastructure – roads, public utilities, schools, housing, and more – implemented by 20,000 contractors, most of whom work with no serious security risks.

    We need to continue this effort until Iraq is the envy of the Middle East.

    [quote]Weapons of mass destruction my ass. [/quote]

    Yesterday, our troops were attacked with one of those non-existent weapons of mass destruction you have confused with your ass. It was a binary artillery shell with nearly a gallon of sarin nerve agent. Saddam never declared any such weapon. How many more do you think are hidden out there in the desert. My guess is a lot, an awful lot.

    [quote]This should be a wake up call, pull all the troops out and leave well enough alone, before it gets ALOT worse.[/quote]

    You couldn’t be more wrong. Abandoning Iraq to anarchy would make it a lot worse. America is Iraq’s only hope for a peaceful, prosperous, secure future.

    [quote]Hopefully another term for you know who is OUT OF THE QUESTION.[/quote]

    You may be out of hope. Only half of those who intend to vote for Kerry think he has any chance of winning. It is perfectly consistent for those who are defeatist about Iraq are likewise defeatist about Kerry.

    [quote]Everyone should blame “HIM”, “HE” has caused this all and is the root of evil. For the poor people that still support Bush, I feel very sorry for you. For the people that agree with me, MAKE SURE YOU VOTE THIS YEAR! [/quote]

    It was not Bush shooting at our jets patrolling the no-fly zone or digging mass graves in the Iraqi desert or throwing people into the plastic shredder or defying the UN resolutions to make a full accounting of his WMDs. Saddam was the evil one who created this mess, which is obvious to any reasonable person.

    I imagine come November after the Bush landslide you’ll be feeling very sorry for yourself. And the situation in Iraq will continue to progress toward a happy ending, adding to your sorrows that you can not enjoy a second Vietnam.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Yes, this snuff video tends to confirm that we Americans are lucky to have such a foolish and self-destructive enemy. Their appeal to the basest emotions will be their downfall.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(9): Nick Berg

    [quote]1. At one point, before KKK was labeled as a criminal organization, they had some significant support from the police and probably high ranking members of the local society. Once KKK was labeled a criminal organization – things changed. Ditto for Saudi Arabia. [/quote]

    The KKK was an archipelago of disconnected local social organizations with a common hatred of blacks, Catholics, and what have you. It enjoyed local support from city governments in the South, whose members were most likely members. It died out by the turn of the century.

    It was resurrected during the Depression and enjoyed local support once again. State politicians in the South were often members to gain support in elections. However, when the ugly talk turned to real violence, support for the KKK collapsed in the US.

    When a third resurgeance of the Klan came after WWII, it was hammered by the FBI.

    By contrast, the more infidels that Al Qaeda killed, the more popular he became with the bloodthirsty Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia. Support for Al Qaeda by ordinary Saudis is strengthened by the violence it does to the West. The Saudis hardly think of Al Qaeda as criminal, as America does of the Klan. And the Klan never had support of the national government of the US as Al Qaeda had from the government of Saudi Arabia. Billions of dollars of support during Afghanistan. Tens of millions of dollars afterward.

    [quote]2. The views of Duke and the KKK have no current support in the USA. But, at one point, they had significant support. [/quote]

    False. The KKK had regional support in the South, marginal support in the North, and was viewed with contempt in the West. Duke had no support in the US outside of his lunatic circle. That’s why he was not elected anywhere. When he pretended to be a Republican in an election in Louisiana, the national Republican party rejected him, going so far as endorsing his Democratic opponent, who won.

    [quote]3. The Saudis were OK about Al Qaeda killing foriegners like the CIA was OK with Al Qaeda (in its initial stages) killing Russians. [/quote]

    It’s a non sequitur but fair enough. These are not morally equivalent positions. It’s a good thing for America to support Muslims defending Afghanistan against a Soviet invader perpetrating a war of conquest. It’s immoral for Saudi to support Al Qaeda invading America to butcher thousands of Americans because they are not Muslim.

    Can you understand the difference?

    [quote]4. Significant amounts of money were channelled from Boston to the IRA at one point, was it not?? [/quote]

    True enough. However, the US government tried to stop it. This money came from the ethnic Irish community in New England, not from the government, and opposed by the government. That is the opposite situation with KSA and Al Qaeda. The government of Saudi Arabia actively supported Al Qaeda. It would not exist without Saudi funding.

    [quote]Steve – I am not pro Al Qaeda. I am not pro terrorism. But, for Chrissake .. please accept that the way that you are framing your case makes others extremely defensive. Do NOT claim the moral highground based on virute. [/quote]

    I would hope that virtue is a universal good and that there is room enough on the moral high ground for all of us. Saudi Arabia certainly does not stand on the moral high ground. If you defend them, you are neck deep in the moral swamp with the alligators.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    [quote]Bring Hillary back into the White House … at least we know she aint going to be too busy chasing booty to actually let that interfere in her doing her job right .. [/quote]

    I’d rather have Bin Laden for President.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    No, we Westerners are not ready to die…we’re ready to LIVE for our God, our country, for our honor, our freedom and our children. My, aren’t you a little sensitive about our American sisters making your raghead brothers take their pants down…think she spanked ’em? HA!! If humiliating those terrorists we captured was a way to give us names of more terrorists, then so be it. Hell, at least they were able to walk away, which is more than we can say for Nick Berg. You stupid fools…you preach so much about Mohammad and “peace be upon him”…blah, blah, blah…how about peace be upon YOU? Anyone who believes it was justified to kill Nick Berg to “avenge the honor” of anyone is NOT OF ISLAM. I know some REAL Muslims who really do believe in peace and KNOW who they speak of when they call upon Mohammad and KNOW he did not condone killing the innocent.

    I see one of two options approaching for our war on terror: Either we get out of Iraq and let them kill and torture each other, or we make another parking lot (Hiroshima ring a bell?). These people cannot, will not, stop because they have no respect for human life.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Your quote about Iraq not attacking the Twin Towers…you’re not getting the big picture:

    True, Saddam wasn’t piloting a plane. But his connections to al Qaeda are now surfacing left and right. Just because Saddam and bin Laden didn’t sleep in the same palace doesn’t mean they didn’t have connections through levels of the same terrorist organization.

    Saddam’s evidence of involvement with 9/11 was buried underneath layers of secrecy…it had to be, and he knew that. If it would have leaked that he, a “head of state” was involved, it would have given us permission to make Baghdad a parking lot.

    You should do a little more fact-finding and research on Saddam’s history, his ties to al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations in and around Iraq and his involvement with it all before you start rattling off liberal media garbage designed to make you want to cry, sulk and quit.

    Just think if we would have quit before the job was done in Germany, 1945…

    Either we fight the war now – in the streets and deserts of the Middle East, or we’ll soon be cleaning up the blood on our own streets. Don’t you get it? Terrorists won’t stop until we stop them.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Hey – Al Bin Muslim Lover:

    Don’t get too close to any military posts, or a woman soldier might take your pants down so you can jump in a naked pile of other Muslim Hero Lovers while she takes pictures to show your friends and family.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    tsk tsk steve … we have ourselves here a misogonyst. (sp?)

    great. with you and your kind in the white house, and with ubl and his kind in the middle east .. we have ourselves a great state of affairs .. lovely partisanship.

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    steve ..

    i am not defending saudi arabia .. all i ever did was point out that the saudis have changed their tune – and they are heading in the right direction. granted, it might be a case of too little too late – but at least they are starting to deal with the terrorists instead of ignoring the problem.

    incidentally – if you hold the current govt of Saudi Arabia responsibel for financing al Qaeda, then I can hold the USG govt for financing and training the CEO and Chairman of Al Qaeda … unless you dont consider the CIA part of the USG?

    also – just following the logic – US tax payers go into USG funds which go into aid for ISrael which goes into building the wall – which is unethical and wrong. Isnt this also a case of a government funding a wong cause?

    Why the double standards?

    Steve – argue based on strategic interests and the difficuly of prioritizing conflicting interests. Dont argue on the basis of moral highground – it aint there …

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    prove it wrong …be a MAN

  • anonymous
    19 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg—GENERAL COMMENT >>NEED ANSWERS

    well shit.. you can’t even read or write english!

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Think of all the Iraqis spared from Saddam by the Americans. The Iraqis examing Baathist records estimate Saddam would have killed 70,000 Iraqis in the year since the US invasion. Perhaps 10,000 were killed in the war. The American invasion gave tens of thousands of Iraqis their lives, millions of Iraqis a future.

    If you walk the streets of New York, you can see a lot of Arabs doing business on the street, working in shops, and driving cabs. Who asked them to go to New York? Luckily for them, Americans are not savages who cut off the heads of foreigners who hail from different cultures and worship different gods. They are free to pursue their personal happiness. We don’t spit on their graves.

    That’s the difference between us, between civilization and barbarism. You firmly favor barbarism. Why?

    Steve

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    …are you trying to tell us that the USA is the only non-muslim country in the world?! what about China, those guys never attacked it.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    fuck all you sandniggers i hope you all rot in HELL! Nick Berg was an innocent human being and didnt deserve what you cowards did to him!!! shove your oil and your fucked up country up your asses we americans should pull out and let you dumb fucks kill each other off!!!!!!!!!!

  • kaka
    20 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    i am fucking upset about what the stupid iraqis did to nick berg. that is the most fucking disgusting thing that i have ever seen. you people need to know that your religion sucks and you need to change. dont you know that people who blow themselves up and kill people go to hell. you say bless the marytrs they will be blessed in heaven. i say go to fucking hell and burn forever.MY GOD IS BETTER THAN YOUR GOD isnt that what it is all about. God bless nick berg, god bless our beloved troops, god bless AMERICA. may the troops blow you to peices. i hope one of us cuts your head off and see how you feel about it.AMERICA WILL RULE THE WORLD FOREVER!! LETS GO RED WHITE AND BLUE!!

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Trackback :: Nick Berg via Mahmood

    TrackBack from Wyome

    If you haven’t read the discussion on Mahmood’s Blog about Nick Berg, then you haven’t read a discussion on the subject. Very interesting conversation.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    we are trying to help you not harm you. have you no respect for us at all? we give you our money our toops and our family in sacrafice to make your country better. if you are going to take an american like nick berg and slice his head off, well then i say burn in hell you stupid bastards.I think in my opnion, every muslim country should be blown up!!! the good muslims should live. OUR AMERICAN GOD THE ONLY ONE TRUE GOD OF THE WORLD BLESS AMERICA AND NICK BERGS FAMILY. my condolences go out to his family and friends. and to his killers may you die a worst death than he did.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    The best thing that can happen is if they do NOT let any rag heads, muslims or any one of those crackpots from over “there” into the U.S. or Canada..let them rot in their own country they LOVE so much….just stay there.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re: Expletives

    my mistake …i got carried away……i dont understand why people kill others in the name of religion ….or say religious verses…. when they do such gruesome things……i didnt c anyone condemning it …nobody is doing so……educated muslims shld act against these kind of things……make some organization or something …..frm whts happening now it seems …..all of the muslim commmunity is happy that people r blowing themselves up in the name of religion…

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    It is interesting to read all the comments regarding nick Berg. All the fuss over old Nick. So he lost his head, big deal. Think of all those people killed by the americans in Iraq. Think of the americans who have kidnapped President Saddam. Old Nick deserved to die. Who ask him to go to Iraq? He can stay at home and be a homeless bum, but no, he has to go to Iraq to look for a job. If anyone has been to New York recently, you will see a lot of homeless bum safe nevertheless. we have absolute no sympathies for old Nick. Spit on his grave and cursed his entire family. May Allah gives them what they deserved.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    ya if thts the case u shit head …listen & answer this
    why u guys gave chance for the americans to come to iraq…..means …..
    1. why didnt osama or other muslims arnd those region ( arnd kuwait) fight back with saddam or used some suicide bombers to finish him off…. in the first place when he was attacking kuwait …before allowing americans to come in …u fuckin assholes paid for americans to come over there……in millions… bcoz other than oil, wives & chidren u dont have naything ..

    2. why would osama a guy frm saudi go to afganisthan to fight in the first place it was none of his business….. wht u thnk… so he was there to have fun using american weapons i dont c any justification for that…..

    3. do u know how many muslims ( i mean arabs) are there in europe & america …if americans & europeans start beheading it would be fun for u all i guess …..

    4. i dont know whiich word to use …u MotherFuckers….. why u thnk whenever israel attacks palestine ….young kids are killed ….have u ever thgt abt it……u shit heads… whtever level of education or life u get …u dont understand all u guys are blind … its kind of hypnotism….or some black magic the leaders in muslim communities do on people …

    4. do u thnk in the right mind if this violence & other things goes out of hand i mean beyond certain limit ..u guys have any chance from america or europeans coutries which u all thnk are against u as muslims….

    also to all muslims …is there any muslim country in this world flourishing ….. or if its doing so ….its only bcoz of oil……u guys dont have anything else…………

    ..the people who attacked the world trade center where all MUSLIMS from muslim countries who came here (US) to study.. or do something .or get enough money to help ur fucking families back in ur country……if u dont know MOSQUES aare still here in US ( atleast respect tht fact)…….frm ur heart tell me if it where chritians or jews who attacked a monument in ur country when its filled with 100s of people wht would u do…..eventhough nobody is attacking i dont thnk u guys allow other people with their beliefs to live in ur country ……i’ve heard officials burning bible in airports from christians in some muslim countries……
    THE WAY ITS GOING I DONT THNK THERE WILL BE VERY MANY MUSLIMS ARND BY THE NEXT 50-100 YRS….ALL OF THEM WILL BE IN PARADISE HAVING 72 WIVES & WINE …..
    ITS SAD ………

  • mahmood
    20 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Steve, this guy is a troll, just ignore him. He logged in from Malaysia so he might be Muslim, but he is so far removed from this situation, area and Islam it seems that his opinion really doesn’t count. So let’s not give him the light of day.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    We can agree that the Saudis are finally taking on the terrorists in their midst. We don’t agree on why. The Saudis are doing the right thing for their own private interest and falsely portraying it as their contribution to a noble fight against terrorism. I’ll admit it’s a better plan than blaming Westerners for Al Qaeda bombs and convicting them of attacking themselves. However, if Saudi Arabia was serious about fighting terror, all they would need to do was stop paying the terrorists.

    You have your facts mixed up about US support of Bin Laden. It didn’t happen. The US via the CIA ploughed money, small arms, and Stinger missiles into the Afghan resistance via Pakistan, whose intelligence service, the ISI, steered it to the Taliban. It was the intention of the ISI to build up the Taliban to take control of Afghanistan as a client state.

    Bin Laden got his money and weapons from Saudi Arabia, not the US, to the tune of two billion dollars. He had his own agenda, separate from the US and Pakistan. As far as he furthered the goals of the ISI in the fight against the Soviets, Pakistan was OK with him.

    It wasn’t until the Soviets left Afghanistan and the US cut off its support that Bin Laden was able to buy the Taliban off to use Afghanistan as Al Qaeda’s base of operations. This happenned not with US support but rather with US neglect.

    Your argument that US dollars are building Israel’s wall is quite a stretch. Using your logic, wouldn’t buying a Happy Meal at McDonald’s in Bahrain be building the wall as well? If you truly believe your own logic, I recommend you present yourself to the world as a Zionist oppressor. Tell your fellow Muslims you didn’t know that crispy french fries fed the world wide Jewish conspiracy. I’m hoping they let you keep your head.

    As for the wall, your opposition to it defies common sense. Of course, people are going to build a wall to stop crazy Palestinians from killing them. To my American ears, the Arab argument seems to be: “How will we kill Israelis with that wall between us? It’s not fair!”

    My friend, whether you like it or not, America is operating from moral principles in this war. It comes down to this: Will the countries that allow people freedom to live their lives as they please expand the domain of liberty or will the tyrannies expand their domain of oppression. The lesson of Sep 11 is that we can not ignore the tyrannies of the Middle East. If we do, they will do evil to us.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Thanks, Mahmoud.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Calm Down

    It is sooo intelligent to see such well articulated arguements and discussions going back and forth in this blog. Towel head, Rag head, infidel …. great inspiraiton for the future.

    If people are going to post, then please try and be somewhat intelligent about what you are trying to say. And remember – it is so easy to be destructive – much more work to be constructive.

    One question for all of you .. since when did the war on terror become the war for the liberation in iraq? Since when did they become one and the same??

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Another brain washed one. Imagine that!!!

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    tsk tsk steve ..

    us and them? the barbarians and the civilized world?

    now – what were we saying about making intelligent and helpful comments that actually build bridges and not giving people simple absolutes?

    Savages are found in every country. Nick Berg’s executioners were inhumane. As were the torturers at Abu Ghraib.

    someone is being a naughty boy here …

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    how u compare death of innocent man to the abuse of prisoners…..comeon man they where prisoners not saints….thts doesnt get to ur head……

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Dear Steve,

    I was jut beginning to like you, you know.

    US Tax Payers – US Taxes – USG – Foreign Aid – Israel – Wall. That is a linear flow of funds. Not the same for Mickey Dee’s. I doubt the Mickey D’s would have the power and the clout to be able to tell the Israeli government to stop building the wall. Nor would Ronald McDonald ever be able to withold Israeli housing loan guarantees. (Can you say #41??!!)

    Also – so what if the motivation for the Saudis aint that ‘noble’. I dont see any government that is ever really that ‘noble’. Once you are in power, the main point becomes to stay in power. As true for the USG as it is for any other government in the world. Why the need to play the moral card?

    I am telling you – you will lose if you play that card. The US does NOT have credibility out there in the world. Not just here mate, but also in Europe. Drop that line of thinking.

    And, I may be an Arab, I may be a moslem, but I am certainly not stupid. So, no need to take my comment that the USG supports the Israeli Wall (financially) to an extreme where I am now being branded a Zionist oppresser. My point was merely to illustrate that Israel would not be able to do what it wanted without the support of the USG.

    And -how do you know what I think of the Wall? Or the situation in Israel? Why are you so willing to label everyone who doesnt agree with you 100% as a savage, or a barbarian, or a ‘zionist oppressor’? Why wont you accept that the USG, like other governments, makes mistakes? And can sometimes miscalculate?

    And for the record, the Wall will not solve any problems. Apartheid does not last. The only way to solve the real problem is to actually create a decent 2 state solution.

    But we digress, dont we. Because, the only people who know whats best is the USG. Oh – not only that. but they are also the strongest, most techincally advancs, and oh .. wait a minute … i almost forgot .. they have God on their side! They own nobility and honesty.

    Hubris anyone?

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    hold on a bit …. i never said that nick berg and the prisoners were one and the same. i said that nick’s executioners and the abu ghraib’s interrogators are both inhumane.

    think about it. one loser who sees a captured iraqi, (with a high chance that he may be a false positive), tortures him enough to kill him (there were a few who died in custody), and enjoyed the humilaiition of a weak and captured man. another loser who decides to publicly behead nick berg in a sadistic terrorist act.

    both took other people’s lives into their own hands and acted as judge and jury. both had no right. (and before you go down the road of relativism, killing a pow is not the same as killing him whilst in combat.)

  • mahmood
    20 May 2004

    Expletives

    There are far too many expletives entered in the comments and it is changing the course of what could be a fruitful discussion into personal attacks. This unfortunately forced me to switch on the censorship engine to automatically remove some of those expletives.

    May I remind everyone that you are more than welcome to discuss your views, but remember that in order to get your message across and engender discussion that Courtesy is Contageous!, and when you are courteous people will be compelled to answer your questions or comment on your thoughts, if you just ramble and curse then in most probability your post will be ignored, or at worst I will have to delete it. I will not stand for any personal attacks, anti-semitism, and inciteful posts.

    No matter how you stand on the Nick Berg murder issue remember that Nick had a family who are still going through an awful lot of pain at his loss. So please show them your respect for his life in at least trying to understand the issues and bridge the huge gap between cultures. Only when you contribute to bridging that gap can we reduce the chances of yet another Nick Berg-like atrocity to happen.

    Thank you for your understanding.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    You are an absolute jackanape.

    Your parroting of the liberal American lines does nothing to impress anyone. It is a shame that innocents die in war (and in peace), but America DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY TARGET CIVILIANS. If a target is misidentified and turns out to be a non military one, we have investigations to understand what went wrong. That’s why these regrettable prison abuses came to light. If we needed to extract information we certainly could have done it with more decorum and with no pictures. Worse goes on in the American penal system, and it’s even more serious because there are so many nonviolent offenders in our system.

    If you care as much about humanity as you profess to, where were you when Saddam put people into shredders? Where was your outrage then? How about when he gassed entire towns? Do you think he cared when he did that? Did he do anything but afford himself the most extravagant luxuries? He did not rebuild the destruction he visited upon people and towns. Why do you only condemn America which, by comparison, makes fairly benign missteps (7 people out of 135k + are bad apples)? Your duplicity and lack of critical analysis is showing.

    Have you read bin Laden’s manifesto, released in September 2002? You are a target because you participate in a democratic government, ergo you are no longer a civilian. He wants to kill you and your family. I suppose you want to negotiate with him? He wants the entire destruction of Isreal, a theocracy in America and a complete conversion to Islam and the banning of offensive art, the prohibition of drinking, gambling… the list goes on. Is that a price YOU are willing to pay? Why would you even countenance negotiating with someone like him? Because the assumption is always America is bad and everyone has a legitimate greivence against us? We’re guilty and cannot prove ourselves innocent?

    Why do you harp on the things that are bad but minor in comparison? Today girls in Iraq are in school. The average wage of an Iraqi is up (just look at any of the Iraqi blog sites and they’ll give examples); the people will have access to the revenue from oil sales, instead of it going into Saddam’s pocket. Hospitals are better equipped than ever before. The good news is around to see- why do you CHOOSE to try and find the worst in America?

    If you read bin Laden’s manifesto you’ll see that our lack of decisive response in the past only emboldened him. What do you think pulling out of the Iraqi endeavour would do?

    One more question- if poor Nick Berg was murdered because of the mistreatment of Iraqi’s at Abu Ghraib, what was their excuse for Daniel Pearl and 9-11? What contrived answer can you come up with to excuse their murder of THOUSANDS on a beautiful September day, women, children, Muslims, Christians, agnostics, and Jews? Do you think bin Laden will ever stop, or only when he is killed?

    Personally, I am looking forward to the day when I can visit the cradle of civilization and go to Baghdad. It will happen.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    interesting.

    at which point did the war for ‘liberation and democracy’ in iraq become the ‘war against terror?’

    as for visiting the cradle of civilization .. i dont know. i dont think the outlook is that rosy. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1220792,00.html

    (incidentally – i love america. i went to school there. what i dont like is someone disguising racism by couching it behind a moral highground).

    jackanape

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Good point, Steve

    Its great to know that the invasion of Iraq can be now declared a success having rid Iraq of its one shell WMD arsenal. A triumph.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re: Calm Down

    Re: since when did the war on terror become the war for the liberation in iraq? Since when did they become one and the same??

    That’s easy. When Bush didn’t find WMD’s. He had to think of something to save his monkey face.

    -An American Infidel

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    One thing that seems to have gotten lost in all this is the character of poor Nick Berg. This isn’t the first time he traveled to a wounded country to aid it. He went to Africa and helped set up a factory to make bricks (for building), so that people would have better houses than the huts they had. He came home with few clothes, skinny and with no money because he “gave it away”. He saw people had nothing and realized his blessings and tried to give some measure of relief.

    Don’t sully someone’s name by characterizing them as greedy just because they have an interest in business. The pursuit of success has done more to enrich the lives of people (through creating employment and opportunities), than anything.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    REAL nice. ” I didn’t do it… pick them to kill and maim!”.

    The standard of living for the poor in the US is far better than anywhere in the world. I’ve been from lower middle class, to poor, to middle class again. Another poster is correct, you the “poor agnostic” have great internet access, which is better than what the middle class of many countries have. You live in a country where the top 50% of wage earners pay over 96% of all income taxes which leaves half the country paying almost no taxes and the top half funding everything from the military to welfare. Before you want all of us ‘Republicans’ killed off, you might want to think of who will fund social programs and provide jobs for people. Most entrepenuers I have met are Republicans.

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Enough is Enough!

    Mahmood: Your patience is extrordinary! This is how I aliken my being able to post here-same as if I was invited into your home – graciously and with respect! Common curtsey and maners should always prevail.
    Some of the posters of recent have reaked havoc on Iraqi blogs ( I suspect, due to writing stye {so to speak}, syntax, and grammer) until there were sucessufully banned, seems they only want to “hear” themselves.
    Not condusive to forward thinking.
    But on the other hand the more they ‘shout’ means the more you are reaching others of like mind and I think that’s what’s driving them (more) nuts!
    There is a new link from a Muslim woman who wote a book she is considered controversial but so far I have learned more about muslim religion and like the clairty of her writing style.
    As always, best regards,
    Leap Frog (forgot to login agian; due to new program that eats all cookies at end of sessions, sorry!)

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    There are always 2 sides to a story and you have to admit the Berg beheading was quite timely- as if staged to get people to stop thinking about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. Take a look at events from a different perspective here: http://thememoryhole.org/ and http://marc.perkel.com/

  • anonymous
    20 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Thanks Mahmood, things were getting pretty nasty. Don’t usually see it here. My condolences, to the family and loved ones of Nick Berg.
    Leap Frog (forgot to login)

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re: Lets wrap this up

    I find little to admire in this column written by Michael Berg, Nick Berg’s father. It is grotesque for a father to invent sympathies for his son that were never felt by the very ones who cut off his head. It is grotesque that this “father” feels more sympathy for his son’s killers than his own president. It’s crazy to say that his son’s killers felt more sympathy for Nick than George Bush because they got the chance to look in his eyes before they killed him. Nick Berg’s psycho killers felt no sympathy for him. That’s why they killed him.

    Berg’s comments on Sep 11 show the most astounding ignorance of our enemy, Al Qaeda and its evil parent, Saudi Arabia. Contrary to Berg’s assumption, we did not label Al Qaeda an enemy until Osama declared war on America, straightforwardly announcing his intention to target every American who pays taxes. They even declared their right, THEIR RIGHT, to kill two million American children. Shouldn’t Berg reprimand Osama for labelling us as enemies rather than vice versa?

    Bin Laden and his ilk are completely intolerant of our way of life, of other religions, of other philosophies, of capitalism, of democracy. Why doesn’t Berg condemn Bin Laden for not listening to us rather than vice versa?

    Bin Laden is a psycho mass murderer who boasts that he would like to kill more Americans. He doesn’t want anyone to live free and autonomously. He insists everyone must follow Wahhabi Islam or die. He wants to plant the black flag of Islam on the Western capitals. He wants to establish a Muslim world empire, a Second Caliphate, where all the world would be Wahhabis. Or dead. It is Osama who makes rules for the rest of us, not the US. Berg has events precisely backwards.

    Nick’s stay in jail probably prolonged his life. It was the safest place he stayed in Iraq. He was in danger everywhere else and took no precautions, evidently out of naivete. Had he took that Boy Scout course on how to handle a handgun, he might well have been equipped to save his life when the jihadis came to kidnap him. Good intentions are no defense against evil. Nick Berg was like a dumb little happy bunny rabbit, hopping in to the wolves den, expecting them to reciprocate his good will. Wolves don’t do good will. They eat happy little bunny rabbits.

    To provide more context, Mike Berg admits that he is a member of ANSWER, an organization which funded and organized many of the anti-war marches in the US, all of the ones in DC. ANSWER is a front group for the World Workers Party, a Stalinist group that is working for a socialist revolution in the US. It is composed of former members of the Communist Party of the USA. ANSWER does not say where it gets its money, as all the other anti-war groups do, but the WWP makes a lot of trips to North Korea and propagandizes on its behalf. North Korea is probably the source of its money. North Korea obtains such hard currency through sales of Scud missiles and drug smuggling through its embassies. Mike Berg’s use of his son’s death to promote this Stalinist agenda is the rotten fruit of a poisonous tree.

    Mike Berg’s position is shameful and wrong, a position reasonable people who oppose evil and who really want peace should reject.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    You have no god b/c reliegion is a form of comfort for the weak. The only thing that is real is the COLD BLUE STEEL

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    End Game

    Steve,

    Since your thinking closely resembles that of the neo con cabal in dc at the moment, could I ask you to lay out for me how you think the next 5 years are going to play out in the region?

    Specifically, how do you think the end June deadline for withdrawal will play out? What do you think that another Bush White House in November will do re its policy in Iraa and the rumors about withdrawal? How do you see the Iraqis responding? And will the net effect be of this on the Gulf States?

    (and, please .. not what you would like to happen, but what you think will happen based on what you see happeneing today?)

    jasra jedi

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    The local Iraqi police, not the CIA, detained Nick Berg.

    The CIA is not everywhere, all the time, doing everything to everyone as conspiracy nuts would like to think.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    The Dalai Lama seems like a good man but he’s a man without a country. The Chinese conquered Tibet and chased him out. If we emulated the Dalai Lama, then tyrannies would take over. The Dalai Lama demonstrates that the pacifism that is admirable in every day life is not effective in confronting evil.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Hmmm.

    If you are insinuating that China was evil in the ‘conquering’ of Tibet – then why did the United States give them MFN status?

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Heh.

    Don’t worry. I think the limits of the CIA are known to all. If it were a capable organization, you would not have had to depend on Chalabi et al in Iraq, would you.

    And look at the relationship between Chalabi and Bremer now!

  • mahmood
    21 May 2004

    Re: Enough is Enough!

    Don’t worry about them, I certainly don’t! This issue, important that it is, will dissipate with time as unfortunately human nature will create another even possibly more horrific in the future. Then these posters will just find another place to post their poison.

    For the time being, just enjoy and participate in decent, thoughtful, thought provoking and intelligent conversations and there are plenty in these threads. Just ignore the chaff.

    From time to time I come in and remove inflamatory comments and then I just carry on!

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Rafah

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3734581.stm

    Here’s what I dont understand. 1,600 residents (civilians) homeless. Lots of people killed. The UN Security Council adopts a resolution condemning the raid, 14 – 0. And guess who abstains?

    Why the double standards?

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I agree with much of what Steve has said; it is unacceptable the Mr. Berg has used his son’s murder to advance his own long held political agenda. I would rather have seen him stay true to his son and advance Nick’s philosophy of life, but he is entitled to his view.

    I think Mr. Berg does have it right when he says people are fed up with peace conferences and the like. No excuse in this day and age for all the horrors that go on in the world in the name of power, money or religion.

    The only problem with Mr. Berg’s philosophy is that bad guys just don’t stop being bad guys because you ask them to. At some point you have to force their hand, and I believe that is what the war in Iraq is really about. We can all turn our backs and live with the status quo as the decades drag on or we can do something about it.

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I apologize for all the stupid anti American comments. I can understand the anger and the need to lash out – it happens on both sides. And the thing is here – there aint two sides. There are more. All we can do is hope and pray that the Iraq story ends well. I hope we all remember what the goal was/is, and we define success according to that.

    That makes the November election one of the most important ones for the Middle East. And, much as I fault George Bush for not doing Iraq right, and much as I would probably vote democrat if I were a US citizen, I find myself hoping that George remains in the White House for 4 more years! We really need stability and continuity in this area. We cant afford now for the troops to be pulled out. We cant afford for Iraq to be embroiled in a civil war. We cannot afford an about turn in policy.

    We need the US to ensure that the Iraqis streets are safe. We need the Iraqis to beleive in the US admnistration and the leaderssip in Iraq. And then, we need our own countries to start looking inwards and work on our own leadership and democratic processes. And we also need Islam to go through its own trials and tribulations like the Renaissance in Europe.

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Fuad,

    [quote]I am truly amused by this common US way of thinking in which they believe that their country is the guardian of peace in this world.[/quote]

    That’s right, Fuad, we are the only guardians of peace the world has. If Saudi Arabia or Iran decide to take over Bahrain, who are you gonna call? It won’t be France, will it? Ask the Kuwaitis who the guardian of their peace has been.

    [quote]Hello…people…wake up!! read international news papers, try to understand what your government is concealing from you through their immaculately manipulated media. [/quote]

    Fuad, this is a deeply silly statement. Go to any newsrack in any bookstore in America and you will find newspapers and magazines that cover the whole political spectrum. If they are not popular enough to sell in a bookstore, you can order them. You can even order fundamentalist Islamic literature if you want.

    I’ve read plenty of international media. Most of it is doctrinaire socialist crap. A good portion of it is flatly dishonest. It is hardly the place to look to find the truth, though a good place to confirm your prejudices.

    [quote]I did not say that Sadam is an angel, I said that years ago and I still say it he is a bustard. But who brought him to power and supported him twice to become the leader and then gave him all the technology to gas the Iranians and then his own people in the north. Well, the answer for those questions is in three letters, C.I.A. [/quote]

    Pure nonsense. Saddam murdered his way to the top by himself.

    Saddam also developed his chemical weapons largely on his own through secret programs. Maybe the French and Germans helped him deliberately or inadvertently, but not the Americans. It appears he took elaborate measures to disguise his phosphate mining in the western desert and his factories in the east as fertilizer production, rather than its manufacturing cousin, chemical weapons production.

    It appears that your diet of international media has given you a head full of wacky conspiracy theories.

    [quote]The famous scene of the downing of Sadam’s statue in the centre of Baghdad was well orchestrated; the same people were scene in different cities doing the same thing in front of the international news agents who were so mesmerised by the scene. [/quote]

    More nonsense. There is plenty of video from many cities which show Saddam’s image being defaced, shot up, burned, and toppled.

    These accusations fly in the face of reality.

    [quote]The invasion of Iraq was planned years ago and don’t tell me that the US government care for the Iraqi people and take this for an example. [/quote]

    The US military has contingency plans for many war scenarios. It’s hardly a stretch of the imagination for the generals back in the 1990s to consider a war was possible in Iraq, what with Saddam shooting at our jets every week. They would be derelict in their duty not to have a plan ready to start from. However, the plan they presented to Rumsfeld did not meet his approval. When the President passed the word to get a plan ready to invade Iraq, they had to toss out the existing plan to come up with the invasion plan they actually used.

    [quote]Ah…one more thing, to make it difficult for any Arab telecommunication company to come back to Iraq, the US government made a new condition; that is any company with governments owning 90% or above of its shares cannot compete in Iraq!? [/quote]

    This is news to me but it sounds like a good idea. Governments should not control communication. Why do you think they should?

    [quote]Yes this is how much the American government care for the Iraqi people [/quote]

    Yes, it is. Smashing government monopolies on goods and services is the best thing for the people. First, they do not deliver goods and services of quality in a timely manner. Second, you can not get rid of them when they perform poorly. Third, telephone services should be provided by private companies so that there will be a profit incentive to provide enhancements to service. Fourth, consumers should have the choice to purchase from a competing phone service if they don’t like the one they have.

    [quote]For better understanding of the horrors of this war please take a look at this site
    http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm [/quote]

    Robert Fisk is a British propagandist who hates the US. Does he also have a website that exposes Saddam’s victims?

    [quote]Fuad (A lover of real democracy, not the US type) [/quote]

    The US democracy is the best you’ll get on Earth. If you’re looking at it through the eyes of socialists like Robert Fisk, you don’t know it.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    “if you aint with us – you’re against us”

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    [quote]The only problem with Mr. Berg’s philosophy is that bad guys just don’t stop being bad guys because you ask them to. [/quote]

    Exactly. When Stalin was informed that the Pope opposed one of his policies, Stalin laughed and asked, “How many divisions does the Pope have?”

    Tyrants are not intimidated by virtue. They sneer at it. They crush it. Virtue requires an active defense, sometimes an offense, too.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Hey Steve ..

    The US’ involvement in Najaf and Karbala is seeing repercussions in Bahrain. We had riots today. Shia youth – very upset. Anti government, (both ours and yours).

    How do you propose we calm them down? Did the US realize that it would be fueling sectarianism? Or did Chalabi forget to tell you that when he was selling you his vision of the future pre War?

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Quite frankly, we prefer enemies who are ready to die for their beliefs. For example, the Japanese made three thousand kamikaze attacks on our forces, of which three hundred made it through to sink thirty ships. We could make ships faster than they could sink them. We conquered Japan, occupied their country, and forced them to give up their aggression. That whole kamikaze strategy failed.

    The Arab Muslims who oppose us have not shown themselves to be quite so ready to die for their cause as the Japanese. When the US landed on Iwo Jima, out of around 30,000 Japanese defenders only a few dozen surrendered, many wounded. Their commanding general fought to the death.

    When the US besieged Tora Bora, the Al Qaeda defenders ran away like cowards. They did not stay and fight. That would be, well, suicidal. Their fearless leader, Osama, was the first to lead the cowardly flight, calling back to them on the radio as he ran away to fight to the death. The Muslim leaders of the jihad against the West certainly don’t believe in their cause enough to die fighting for it. They talk chumps like you into dying for it. You are their disposable pawns.

    We Americans very much like living. If you had any sense, you would, too.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Because we have more influence over them through trade than by not. Closing off trade is pointless, because they can always buy our goods through third parties. However, opening trade allows Chinese to come to America and Americans to go into China, often Chinese-Americans. Where trade goes, it carries ideas, dangerous ideas like liberty, democracy, free speech. When the Chinese see how America works, they will want to put our ideas into practice at home. This is a much more effective policy to change China than a trade ban or a war, though it appears counter-intuitive.

    China first started sending exchange students to America more than twenty years ago. It took that long for the American ideas to seep into the youth there. The result was the rebellion in miniature on Tiannamen Square, where the Chinese students erected a papier mache Statue of Liberty and demanded rights for citizens, just like the West had. These ideas are loose in China and can not be bottled up. Already, the Chinese government is shifting, ever so slowly, toward free minds and free markets. Free trade erodes the basis on which the Chinese tyranny rests.

    One day, the result of these exchanges and trade will be a modern, prosperous China with property rights, free speech, democracy, and the rule of law. Where that papier mache Statue of Liberty stood will be erected a new one in bronze and stone, erected by the Chinese people.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re: Good point, Steve

    Do you honestly believe that that was the only chemical shell Saddam made? I invite you to explain your position.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    I’m not against women but I am against socialists like Hillary. At least if we elected Bin Laden as President we’d have somebody who was honestly trying to destroy America rather than Hillary who would be covertly trying to destroy America.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    I hate to point out the obvious, but authoritarian governments do not suffer terrorist attacks from the inside because they have an iron grip on their population throught secret police and rigid laws. Free countries suffer attacks because they are easy to move around in.

    For example, Dr. Wazahiri left Egypt because the Egyptian government was very effective in killing and jailing the Muslim Brotherhood. He tried heading for Chechnya but the Russians caught him soon after he crossed the border and tossed him in jail, trying to figure out what he was. He ended up in Afghanistan because it was the easiest place to operate from.

    They struck America because it was easy to enter. Nobody stopped them every time they entered a city, like they would in China. They didn’t need any papers to move around.

    Steve

  • [deleted]0.31014800 1099323478.248
    21 May 2004

    Lets wrap this up

    Hey guys, this debate is getting out of hand, and if we really want to discuss Nick Berg’s killing then we should respect his family’s wishes and opinion regarding his death. In today’s Guardian, Nick’s father, Michael Berg has written an article called “George Bush never looked into Nick’s eyes “. It is a poignant well-written peace which expresses his love for his son and his wish for world peace.

    [quote]George Bush never looked into Nick’s eyes

    Even more than the murderers who took my son’s life, I condemn those who make policies to end lives

    Michael Berg
    Friday May 21, 2004
    The Guardian

    My son, Nick, was my teacher and my hero. He was the kindest, gentlest man I know; no, the kindest, gentlest human being I have ever known. He quit the Boy Scouts of America because they wanted to teach him to fire a handgun. Nick, too, poured into me the strength I needed, and still need, to tell the world about him.
    People ask me why I focus on putting the blame for my son’s tragic and atrocious end on the Bush administration. They ask: “Don’t you blame the five men who killed him?” I have answered that I blame them no more or less than the Bush administration, but I am wrong: I am sure, knowing my son, that somewhere during their association with him these men became aware of what an extraordinary man my son was. I take comfort that when they did the awful thing they did, they weren’t quite as in to it as they might have been. I am sure that they came to admire him.

    I am sure that the one who wielded the knife felt Nick’s breath on his hand and knew that he had a real human being there. I am sure that the others looked into my son’s eyes and got at least a glimmer of what the rest of the world sees. And I am sure that these murderers, for just a brief moment, did not like what they were doing.

    George Bush never looked into my son’s eyes. George Bush doesn’t know my son, and he is the worse for it. George Bush, though a father himself, cannot feel my pain, or that of my family, or of the world that grieves for Nick, because he is a policymaker, and he doesn’t have to bear the consequences of his acts. George Bush can see neither the heart of Nick nor that of the American people, let alone that of the Iraqi people his policies are killing daily.

    Donald Rumsfeld said that he took responsibility for the sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners. How could he take that responsibility when there was no consequence? Nick took the consequences.

    Even more than those murderers who took my son’s life, I can’t stand those who sit and make policies to end lives and break the lives of the still living.

    Nick was not in the military, but he had the discipline and dedication of a soldier. Nick Berg was in Iraq to help the people without any expectation of personal gain. He was only one man, but through his death he has become many. The truly unselfish spirit of giving your all to do what you know in your own heart is right even when you know it may be dangerous; this spirit has spread among the people who knew Nick, and that group has spread and is spreading all over the world.

    So what were we to do when we in America were attacked on September 11, that infamous day? I say we should have done then what we never did before: stop speaking to the people we labelled our enemies and start listening to them. Stop giving preconditions to our peaceful coexistence on this small planet, and start honouring and respecting every human’s need to live free and autonomously, to truly respect the sovereignty of every state. To stop making up rules by which others must live and then separate rules for ourselves.

    George Bush’s ineffective leadership is a weapon of mass destruction, and it has allowed a chain reaction of events that led to the unlawful detention of my son which immersed him in a world of escalated violence. Were it not for Nick’s detention, I would have had him in my arms again. That detention held him in Iraq not only until the atrocities that led to the siege of Fallujah, but also the revelation of the atrocities committed in the jails in Iraq, in retaliation for which my son’s wonderful life was put to an end.

    My son’s work still goes on. Where there was one peacemaker before, I now see and have heard from thousands of peacemakers. Nick was a man who acted on his beliefs. We, the people of this world, now need to act on our beliefs. We need to let the evildoers on both sides of the Atlantic know that we are fed up with war. We are fed up with the killing and bombing and maiming of innocent people. We are fed up with the lies. Yes, we are fed up with the suicide bombers, and with the failure of the Israelis and Palestinians to find a way to stop killing each other. We are fed up with negotiations and peace conferences that are entered into on both sides with preset conditions that preclude the outcome of peace. We want world peace now.

    Many have offered to pray for Nick and my family. I appreciate their thoughts, but I ask them to include in their prayers a prayer for peace. And I ask them to do more than pray. I ask them to demand peace now.

    · Michael Berg is the father of Nick Berg, the US contractor beheaded on video in Iraq this month by a group believed to be linked to al-Qaida. This is an extract from his message of support for the Stop The War Coalition’s demonstration, End the Torture – Bring the Troops Home Now, which will be held at 11am tomorrow at the Embankment in London

    [/quote]

    His message is GEORGE BUSH IS TO BLAME as much as anybody else, ITS TIME TO END THE KILLING ON BOTH SIDES.

    This is a man in sorrow, yet is not seeking revenge. We should respect that.

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Yeah its just a pity there are people out there who respect these Iraqi insurgent killers to such an extent that they call themselves after them.

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    IF THEY ARE SO PROUD OF WHAT THEY DID,THEN WHY DO THEY COVER THEIR FACES? THE REPUBLICAN GUARD DIDN’T COVER THEIR FACES.

  • tss
    21 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    you and everyone that follows these cowards who make people kill because fuckers like Bin Laden are too pussy to do the shit themselves should be the ones decapitated. Religious extremist who kill for god don’t have a fucking clue. You idiots make your religions look bad.

  • anonymous
    21 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I apologize for all the stupid American comments. People are really upset about Nick, and it has clouded their prospective. I know I felt so angry that I didn’t want to say anything, because it would be said in anger and I didn’t even watch the video. I would have felt the same way if it were an Iraqi or anyone else being killed that way in the name of God.

    I urge people to read other articles here on this website. Don’t make the mistake of lumping people as being the same as someone else just because they are Arab or Muslims. You all know better than that. I think you will find we have more in common than you would think.

  • anonymous
    22 May 2004

    Re: End Game

    Jasra,

    I think Iraq will steadily improve by degrees in the background while our attention is distracted by guerrilla violence in the foreground fomented by the remainder of Saddam’s regime, jihadis looking for a ticket to paradise, Syrian troublemakers, and Iranian secret agents.

    The supposed transfer of sovereignty to Iraq this summer looks like an empty gesture to me. Who exactly is receiving it? I don’t see much of an organized government in Iraq. It looks like a publicity exercise.

    It would make more sense to me for the American government to simply take possession of the Iraq governmment functions, build up the governmental structure, train its Iraqi replacements, and steadily relinquish its posts from the bottom up as qualified Iraqi candidates are produced until the Iraqis take over completely.

    The current Abu Ghraib scandal will play out for months, fueled by photos. It has all the things the liberal media here in the US love: it’s violent, it has visually interesting images, and it places the US in a bad light. If it had no photos, it would not be a big story. As far as the media goes, if you don’t have pictures of it, it didn’t happen.

    The jail scandal is a one-shot deal. I doubt there is any more scandals like it. The thing that will hurt the American effort in Iraq more will be the inadvertent killing of innocent civilians. Since the guerrillas hide in the civilian population, fighting them will inevitably kill innocent Iraqis being used as their shields or innocent Iraqis who are mistaken for bad guys. These deaths will be exploited by our enemies in Iraq and in the Middle East. There is no solution to this other than to win.

    Offsetting the bad publicity of the American occupation will be the bloodthirsty stupidity of our enemies there. They will continue to promiscuously bomb, killing Iraqis, and hardening the Iraqi opinion against the foreign fighters who want Iraq to fail.

    All in all, the violence in Iraq will be exploited by Al Jazeera and other Arab media to castigate the American occupation in Iraq, because that’s what most of its Arab audience wants to hear. The bulk of the Arab Muslim world, uneducated and ignorant, irredeemably prejudiced against non-Muslims, will oppose America in Iraq no matter how well it goes and will rejoice if it fails. The educated Arab elites will make public lip service to opposition against America’s involvement to get along with their neigbors, but will secretly hope for its success. When a small opportunity to advance liberty and free markets in their own country presents itself, they will cautiously seize it.

    However, all the above is a minor factor in the success or failure of the American occupation of Iraq. The success of Iraq will depend on the construction of the infrastructure, primarily the oil industry but also the communications network, schools, ministries, legal system, police, and military. This will improve Iraq by degrees but it will receive scant attention in the media because it has little visual impact and does not make a good story. Bombings and beheadings make news. If it bleeds, it leads, the journalists say.

    Stories about progress can not compete with stories drenched with blood. A village getting a clean water supply, government retirees getting their pension checks, new textbooks in the schools, workers getting a raise in salary, military recruits being trained professionally and humanely, satellite TV dishes going for sale, telephone service restored. These are boring stories, but they are the foundation of a normal, civil life. These are the things that will prove decisive for the success of Iraq, and they are being steadily accomplished with little acknowledgement.

    The success of Iraq depends on the development of its economy. The foundation of the economy in Iraq is the oil industry, which must be built up. That’s about a five year project to drill new wells, build new processing capability, repair pipelines, et cetera. When the oil industry starts producing at its potential, it will begin pumping money into Iraq and progress will accelerate.

    For the next five years, it looks like things will go about like they are now. Terror bombings and the occassional beheading. America arrests some innocent people, kills some innocent people, while steadily whittling down the organized resistance of bad guys. But behind the bloody headlines, steady progress on building a civilization will continue, with Iraqis playing an ever-expanding role. It will not go smoothly, but in fits and starts.

    I don’t see America leaving Iraq in five years, or any time soon. There will be a large American military footprint in Iraq for a decade or more. America will probably be in Iraq for a century, though its presence will be reduced to a few military bases. We still have bases in Germany and Japan, sixty years after WWII. We have a base in Cuba more than a century after the Spanish-American War. We will be in Iraq for generations, to stabilize the region. Our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan will restrain and pressure Iran’s vile theocracy. Hopefully, the Iraqi democracy will be contrasted with the Iranian mullahcracy to its detriment, steadily eroding its authority until it is overthrown by its own people.

    It will take a generation for Iraq to become a stable democracy. The more successful it becomes, the more it will undermine the authoritarian states in the Middle East. If Iraq becomes a showcase of how democracy can bring prosperity and freedom to an Arab Muslim state, it will be a powerful encouragement for change in all its neighbors. Arab Muslims will visit Iraq, return to their own country, and ask why they can’t do the same at home.

    But if Kerry is elected President, we will likely pull out, Iraq will fail, and a new generation of Muslim terrorists will be encouraged to do their worst.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    22 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I just viewed this video, and until now I have tried to remain relatively removed from the entire Iraq/war-on-terror situation since I consider myself a pacifist. I realized early on that my “type” of approach would never have a large (or receptive) audience so I mainly interject my views through my daily encounters with friends, family, coworkers, and classmates. That is until now. I am literally crying and sick to my stomach. Regardless or nationality or religious belief, I can not begin to fathom what could possible compell a human being to carry out such a horrifying act. I’m going to just come out and say it: this is not normal behavior. Although beheadings were common practice in the middle ages in most places (including both Europe and the Middle East), we as human beings are capable of progress and improvement. In constantly challenging ourselves to better realize our own and others’ humanity as well as better our concepts and practices of justice, most modern societies have moved beyond such torturous behavior. While I am against the death penalty, the practice of lethal injection does not compare to what I just witnessed in this video. Why is it that these people – and I would make this statement regardless of nationality – refuse to move along with the rest of the world? Is it power? Well, power can be exerted in other, far less disgusting means. Is it religion? If so, then I just don’t understand. Obviously the people who maintain this archaic lifestyle do so despite having the access to and knowledge of modern concepts of justice and humanity. They have purposely chosen to remain in a state of infancy regarding justice and humanity. How to resolve this is far beyond me or any political or moral theorist in all of past history. All I know is that this is absolutely disgusting and unjustifiable under any circumstances and I find it impossible to adopt the mindset of someone who could at any time find this an acceptable means to any end.

  • anonymous
    22 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    I don’t accept that the US government is responsible for the Shia kids rioting. My experience is that good people do not riot, only bad people do, usually for bad reasons. Any excuse will do for them. From what I’ve seen of riots in America, kids riot because it’s fun, not for any abstract political reason.

    Likewise, the US is not responsible for the various Muslim sects hatred for each other. They are responsible for their own hate. They should be ashamed of it rather than parading it on the streets. It’s really quite goofy to blame America for divisions in the Muslim world.

    However, your accusations handsomely illustrate the main problem of the Arab world: The inability to take responsibility for your own problems. If you spent as much time and effort fixing your problems as you spend trying to blame them on outsiders, however unlikely, you would live in a far better world.

    So my question to you is: What are YOU going to do to stop Muslims of different sects from hating each other?

    Steve

  • anonymous
    22 May 2004

    Re(1): Calm Down

    Iraq played a part in the Sep 11 attacks. Saddam may well have been the patron of the operation. His agents met with Al Qaeda. Atta met with his intel officer in Europe. His intelligence service provided the Sep 11 planners with false identities.

    With Pakistan selling nuclear bomb plans, it was only a matter of time before Saddam bought one and mated it with a Scud bought from North Korea. Or put it on a ship bound for New York harbor.

    And for those who don’t keep up with the news, we have found a shell with a gallon of sarin nerve agent. We have found munitions with traces of mustard gas on them. It’s likely there are more buried in the desert.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    22 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    Not quite everyone. I have yet to see Al Qaeda plant a bomb under one of the Wahhabi religious leaders. Why do you think that might be?

    Steve

  • anonymous
    22 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Do you see any Americans killing each other over religion? Are the Presbyterians here launching suicide attacks on the Baptists? Are the Methodists launching RPGs at the Mormons? Are Catholic priests fulminating at the pulpit to kill Jews, steal their property, and take their women as concubines? Are the Christian Scientists beheading Hindus in their reading rooms and sending the videos to NBC? Are the Rastafarians flying suicide jets into skyscrapers?

    Do you see religious nuts running our lives?

    You could learn a lot from American wisdom, my friend.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    22 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Fuad,

    New markets are good for the US but they are not the source of our prosperity. Our economic system is the source. We would still be prosperous without new markets.

    You are subscribing to the false idea that wealth is obtained at the expense of others, that capitalism is a zero sum game. It is not.

    Steve

  • mahmood
    22 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    “riot” is an unfortunate choice of word for what was actually a peaceful demonstration. It only turned ugly when the “riot-“police decided to turn it into one and they have now paid for it with their jobs, and the head of that organisation has been fired.

    What are YOU going to do to stop Muslims of different sects from hating each other?

    Very interesting question indeed which must be explored.

    You’re right of course in pointing out our shortcomings in this regard. Lacking any means of expressing ourselves, having an education system completely catering for a single sect and not acknowledging any other, let along touching on other faiths I think has led to this huge schism between the various sects of Islam. That same lackluster educational system has propagated hate against other religions. But it’s not as simple as that, that same schism has existed for some 1,300 years with very few movements to bring sects together. Then culture, tradition and tribal politics continued and solidified differences.

    All is not lost however; we do see and hear of some efforts being mounted by the King on one side and from the Shi’a religious establishment on the other, the latest of which is a clear call by a very respected Shi’a leader in Bahrain – Shaikh Isa Qassim – for the formation of a board or society composed of members of both mainstream sects to try various rapprochement discussions and activities. I wish them much luck. They – if this association is enacted – will have a very long and hard road ahead of them. The least of which is coming to an agreement regarding everyday issues like common personal laws, common Eids, and a common calendar amongst many.

    Apart from that association however, it is incumbent on every Muslim individual to break down the walls and be creative about bringing members of Muslim sects together. For instance, how much would it take for a Shi’a to pray in a Sunni mosque and vice versa? How much would it take for a Sunni to attend one of the Shi’a ma’atems? Not very much physically, but a huge amount emotionally. These are everyday things which could set a standard, and light a way forward.

    But as to your assertion that

    I don’t accept that the US government is responsible for the Shia kids rioting.

    I must make my point clear: Karbala and Najaf are two of the most holy cities for the Shi’a faith because of their sect leaders’ mausoleums. The importance of these cities are third only to Mecca and Jerusalem. So when a Shi’a sees that these cities are being desecrated of course they will feel wronged, as those cities do not just belong to the Iraqis but rather to the whole of Islam generally and the Shi’a particularly. Just as Catholics regard the Vatican their city regardless of the geography they reside in.

    The desecrated of these cities lies squarely on Al-Sadr’s shoulders and his thugs. The Americans have shown great patience with Al-Sadr thus far, but I suspect that their patience is wearing thin. Even with that, they should not have entered the cities but left the issue to other religious leaders to force Al-Sadr out of the city.

    I know that this situation is akin to letting the Arabs and the Iraqis to get rid of Saddam, and it might never happen, but the theory at least is good, if not very practical. So my opinion is for the Americans to clearly declare their intentions regarding Al-Sadr’s capture through a higher Shi’a figure who in this case is Al-Sistani and seek his advice on how to resolve the situation. Because if either party (Al-Sadr or the Americans) damage any shrine in these cities, there will be hell to pay, and the war will take a path much worse I fear than what has already been seen in Falujah.

    I hope this can be resolved quickly.

  • anonymous
    22 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    u go mahmood!

    🙂

  • anonymous
    22 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    DOES ANYONE KNOW NICK BERGS DATE OF BIRTH ?

  • anonymous
    23 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    [quote]So when a Shi’a sees that these cities are being desecrated of course they will feel wronged, as those cities do not just belong to the Iraqis but rather to the whole of Islam generally and the Shi’a particularly. Just as Catholics regard the Vatican their city regardless of the geography they reside in.[/quote]

    Mahmoud, do you think “desecrated” captures what the American military is doing in Karbala and Najaf? Our object is Sadr, not Shia holy sites. It’s hardly fair to open fire on our Marines from the minaret of a mosque and then claim the return fire is aimed at the Shia religion rather than the gun-toting thugs. Our military response has been very restrained.

    I’m not much of a Catholic but I would consider it wrong for a foreign power to attack the Vatican. However, I would withhold my sympathy if the Pope were found to have an arsenal in the Sistine Chapel and told the priests to open fire from the church steeple on troops to provoke a violent confrontation.

    [quote]The desecrated of these cities lies squarely on Al-Sadr’s shoulders and his thugs. The Americans have shown great patience with Al-Sadr thus far, but I suspect that their patience is wearing thin. Even with that, they should not have entered the cities but left the issue to other religious leaders to force Al-Sadr out of the city.[/quote]

    It looks like they have done a little of all the above. They have confronted the Shia militia but not made an all out assault on them. Iraqi troops were brought up to enter at least one city, but they refused to believe that Muslims were fighting other Muslims. When they came under fire while in convoy, they fled back to their base. So that solution did not work. It looks like the other Shia leaders like Sistani took a long time to make up their minds about a course of action. It looks like they wanted to wait to see who was stronger.

    [quote]Because if either party (Al-Sadr or the Americans) damage any shrine in these cities, there will be hell to pay, and the war will take a path much worse I fear than what has already been seen in Falujah. [/quote]

    Mahmoud, I think the radical Shias in those cities would love for the Americans to trash a shrine. That would be the incitement they crave. I doubt the American commanders are so foolish as to give them what they want. And of course, we are not interested in fighting over religion.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    23 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    [quote]I was jut beginning to like you, you know. [/quote]

    Give it some more time. I’m an acquired taste.

    [quote]US Tax Payers – US Taxes – USG – Foreign Aid – Israel – Wall. That is a linear flow of funds. Not the same for Mickey Dee’s. I doubt the Mickey D’s would have the power and the clout to be able to tell the Israeli government to stop building the wall.[/quote]

    You buy a Happy Meal. Part of the money goes to McDonald’s corporate headquarters in Chicago, then to the USG in taxes, then on to Israel to buid the Wall. Using your logic, the purchase of that Happy Meal makes you a Zionist oppressor. Why are you oppressing the poor Palestinians with your brutal purchases of Chicken McNuggets? You probably buy buckets of fried chicken at Kentucky Fried Chicken too, dontcha? Don’t you realize that supports Colonel Sanders, infamous symbol of America’s war machine? You know, I wouldn’t be surprised if you had an Israeli flag tacked up on your wall at home, with all your money going to support American imperialism and Israel oppression.

    [quote]Also – so what if the motivation for the Saudis aint that ‘noble’. I dont see any government that is ever really that ‘noble’. Once you are in power, the main point becomes to stay in power. As true for the USG as it is for any other government in the world. Why the need to play the moral card?[/quote]

    The Saudis are evil lying murderers who relish the death of American infidels. They funded Al Qaeda. The $500,000 that paid for Sep 11 was Saudi money. When it was revealed that 15 of the Sep 11 skyjackers were Saudi, the Saudis denied it. They maintained for at least six months that those Saudi skyjackers were innocent, the victim of racist Americans seeking to defame them. It wasn’t until the evidence was too great to ignore that the Saudis grudgingly acquiesed, though without apology.

    Lets also remembered that we defended Saudi Arabia in the first Gulf War. They repaid us with mass murder.

    The Saudis have resisted the investigation of terrorist acts on Sep 11 and on Saudi soil. We still don’t know the details of the Sep 11 hijackers because the Saudis blocked it. They have blocked the investigation of other murders such as the Khobar Towers and smaller bombings.

    They blamed many Al Qaeda bombings on the Westerners who were targeted by Al Qaeda. The evil Saudis beat confessions out of the wounded men and sentenced them to death. They did all this to avoid telling the truth.

    Saudi Arabia is a thoroughly evil tyranny which can hardly speak without telling a lie. They will continue to launch attacks on America as long as they have cash to do so. America will not be safe until Saudi Arabia is destroyed.

    [quote]I am telling you – you will lose if you play that card. The US does NOT have credibility out there in the world. Not just here mate, but also in Europe. Drop that line of thinking. [/quote]

    We don’t care what Europe thinks. If we did not act on moral principle, there would have been nobody defending the Muslims in Kosovo when they were in danger of extermination. Saving their lives did nothing to advance our strategic objectives. And Europe could have cared less if they died. Think about it.

    [quote]And, I may be an Arab, I may be a moslem, but I am certainly not stupid. So, no need to take my comment that the USG supports the Israeli Wall (financially) to an extreme where I am now being branded a Zionist oppresser. My point was merely to illustrate that Israel would not be able to do what it wanted without the support of the USG.[/quote]

    And my point was what a stretch that argument was. Your logic would allow any purchase anywhere to be tracked to financial support for the Wall. Anyone who buys any American product anywhere in the world could be fallaciously shown to be supporting the Wall.

    Certainly without US support, Israel would not survive the religious war of extermination the Arab Muslims are waging against it.

    [quote]And for the record, the Wall will not solve any problems. Apartheid does not last. The only way to solve the real problem is to actually create a decent 2 state solution. [/quote]

    Under the current Palestinian leadership, it will never succeed. They are far too violent, self-serving, and corrupt.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    23 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    [quote]now do you see why people keep telling you that any real sustainable relationship between the US and the Middle East has got to be based on a solid solution to the Palestinian problem? [/quote]

    I understand that you want us to help you to exterminate the Jews in Israel in your religious war, but I don’t respect that desire.

    [quote]I am not Palestinian – so I cannot answer if these suicide bombers have a father figure or why they do it. However, I can say that any victimized, institutionally repressed people over a period of time end up blowing up at some point. Until justice is served. [/quote]

    Actually, they rarely do. Stalin made quite a career out of institutionalizing repression and victimization and nobody rose up against him. The Jews of Europe never rose up against their oppressors. Real oppression does not give much slack to rebels. It simply kills them.

    Blowing up kids in shopping malls, butchering people in pizza parlors, and shooting people in their homes is hardly a quest for justice.

    [quote]If you dont believe me, ask the African Americans pre civil rights , or Black South Africans during apartheid, or the Persecuted Jews in Europe pre 48…. [/quote]

    The Civil Rights movement in the US made a point of being non-violent. Martin Luther King followed Ghandi’s approach in this. This hardly bolsters your case for the insanely violent tactics of the Palestinians. Neither did the Jews attack their oppressors in Europe.

    [quote]Suicide bombing is a symptom. The root lies in the institionalized humiliation that Palestinians feel day in and day out -with a significant lack of hope that things are going to get any better. [/quote]

    Their violent tactics have made things worse for themselves. Why have they not made a peaceful campaign which appeals to the Israelis conscience and courts?

    Steve

  • mahmood
    23 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    It’s hardly fair to open fire on our Marines from the minaret of a mosque and then claim the return fire is aimed at the Shia religion rather than the gun-toting thugs. Our military response has been very restrained.

    I know and agree with you. Had the American military wanted to erase Karbala they could have done it, they have the means to do so. No one disputes that fact other than Sadr it seems. But he thinks that he’s acting smart by drawing the Americans into the city in the hope that they will trash the holy sites. That’s a very dangerous game he’s doing and I think he realises it. But the jerk should also realise that the whole Shia world is against him by playing chicken with our most holy of sites, hence Sistani’s (belated) action in telling them to get out of these two cities. Will he listen? I doubt it. Sadr must be a big fan of Rambo and thinks that he can stick it out and come out victorious. Fat chance of that happening.

    I think the radical Shias in those cities would love for the Americans to trash a shrine. That would be the incitement they crave. I doubt the American commanders are so foolish as to give them what they want. And of course, we are not interested in fighting over religion.

    You’re mistaken there. This would suggest that all Shias in those cities are willing to give up the shrines. They don’t. I cannot even come close to condoning them giving the shrines up. There is far too much emotion and religion associated with them and they will see it as their duty to defend the shrines, NOT Sadr, he in this case will take a definite back seat and you will probably find that people will get bored with him and his misguided tactics and you will receive his head as a present!

    Caution is the best thing to do here. No one wants to see the destruction of an important site. Ultimately I think the residents of Karbala and other holy cities in Iraq will demand that Sadr give himself up and leave them well alone. After all, he’s really just an aprentice living on his father’s reputation rather than his own knowledge.

    [Modified by: Mahmood Al-Yousif (mahmood) on May 23, 2004 09:24 AM]

  • mahmood
    23 May 2004

    Sadr’s support is dead

    this from the New York Times:

    “It looks like they just packed up and went home,” Col. Peter Mansoor, commander of the First Brigade of the First Armored Division, said in an operations tent on the city outskirts where he monitored field reports. Referring to Mr. Sadr, Colonel Mansoor said, “I think his days are numbered.”

    An Iraqi reporter for The New York Times in Karbala said he had seen militiamen putting their weapons in bags in recent days and trying to leave the city. Some residents of the city have distributed fliers denouncing Mr. Sadr and the presence of his fighters.

    New York Times

    Note the second paragraph quoted above, the residents themselves got fed up with Sadr, he completely lost support, so now reports are coming in that he’s opened a bajilla stand (butter beans) in Basra so he can eke a living.

  • anonymous
    23 May 2004

    Nick Berg DoB

    Just did a google search and came up with nothing. Why?

  • anonymous
    24 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    Does anyone remember the video of the Russian Soldier being killed by Chechnyan Rebels? Funny how things pass on with time. We used to show it in SOF as a “training” video for new kids as a reason not to get caught.
    It has been an accepted reality for centuries that bad guys do bad things. It is equally accepted that goods guys sometimes do bad things. At the end of the day we should all realise that this “war” is not about religion, it is not about who can kill the other guy better faster and get more publicity. Or even about who is more right or wrong.
    It is a war about the haves and have nots. 10% of the people of the world “have”, and 90% “have not”. This “war” will surely continue and re-manifest itself in many ways before things get better. The next guys could well be some wacky group from middle africa that finds a resonant cord with others in the world, along with the means to pursue their agenda. Somalian power seekers wanted the US out of Somalia, what did they gain? Nothing. In the end, the perpetuated the same issue that brought the internatinal comunities attention in the first place, but then acheived unprecedented greatness by being dismissed by the 10% at large as to difficult to deal with. And now with dismissal, they have for ten years become mostly forgotten save a few frenchmen and italians, and a small US military force that has taken residence in Djibouti, Africa with nothing much productive to do but wait with the idea that Somalia may become interesting again for the 10%.
    I do not propose to have better solutions than the next guy, but I do propose that we all keep trying to make the world a better place.
    That is what is is all about. Iraq had and has issues, many other countries have issues (sic – All), (including my own the US). But at the end of the day I do believe it is about keeping as best we can bad people from being bad while we all work to bring the construction of infrastructure around to the 90% world. The end idea being lets strive to give us all something better and more productive to do. This idea is, according to me, why the western countries have predominantly become the 10%. We, for the most part and with fits and starts that continue today, have learned that day to day is best spent living, loving, learning and growing vice killing and destroying for perceived power. Wasn’t there a political cartoon at somepoint addressing the idea of waging great destruction to become the king of nothing.
    Before the clowns out there start shooting at me for speaking, understand the truth of my world: BS Degree. 19 Years US Military. Protestant. 10 years married to a Wonderful Muslim Lady from Turkey, enjoying and loving our 2 Kids (boy and girl), We have lived in the Europe last year and a half. I participated last year during the war (I do not subscribe to the Gulf One, Gulf Two, etc as there have been centuries of them and thus too many to count) with a multinational group representing (gasp) Europe – including Germany and France – in the Middle East.
    I believe that the US has in its collective heart the desire to do good things for others. I also believe that we have made some grave errors as well as some great successes in this pursuit. For the un-initiated it is called learning. I fully support our efforts to build a better Iraq, but also fully recognise that our Public Relations efforts at times have really sucked. Saddam had to go, the whys and wherefores truly blurred by Information Warfare and the Media at Large acting as they do these days. I also fully believe that our efforts to understand both our friends and enemies in these current efforts are somewhat lacking. Truly a world apart in some cases. But surely this same error is made across the board. This can be fixed as noted by others, time and effort always produces something.
    Mahmood, thanks for the opportunity provided here, outside of the clowns and stupid clowns, a clear exchange of ideas is taking place.
    Steve, I may not agree with all you have written, but I do appreciate your underlaying sense of humor. I have come to understand that you have a distaste for hypocrits, and a lot of time on your hands to stay informed, or maybe it is your job.
    Peacnics – Peace is a wonderful thing, but what will you do when the other guy doesn’t believe in peace?

    In these days, future peace is very expensive, but failure is surely more expensive.

    To borrow from others, my heart goes out to Islam for being shamed by Stupid Clowns with Knives and old ideas, my heart also goes out to the Dumb Bunny that went into the wolves den, and for his family who certainly have some things to deal with as a result.

    I will strive to make my children Smart Bunnies, and at the same time work to build a world for them to grow nice carrots. And surely the Girlscouts and Boyscouts will never get to teach them firearms, as I will have done it already.

    LJ

  • mahmood
    24 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Than you for sharing your thoughts with us LJ. It is refreshing to find people who cross bounderies and thoroughly enjoy it. Even more, accept to be enriched by their experiences.

    Peace and regards to you and your family.

  • pepper925
    24 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Dear all,
    If the Americans don’t believe in God, Shall we follow them? If the Americans are acting inhumanitarian, shall we act like them? Who gave the authority for those men to slaughter Nick, is it God? is it the Islam? No, neither God or Islam authorize such acts, I am sorry to read some comments that agree with such acts and talk in the name of God. Look better inside yourselves, you will see that it is shame for Islam to have such beasts.

  • anonymous
    24 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    [quote]You’re mistaken there. This would suggest that all Shias in those cities are willing to give up the shrines. They don’t. I cannot even come close to condoning them giving the shrines up. There is far too much emotion and religion associated with them and they will see it as their duty to defend the shrines,[/quote]

    Mahmood, I’m not suggesting the Shia people as a whole would want their shrines damaged, but their radical leaders might encourage such a thing in a cynical calculation to bolster their support.

    [quote]NOT Sadr, he in this case will take a definite back seat and you will probably find that people will get bored with him and his misguided tactics and you will receive his head as a present! [/quote]

    I hope not. There have been enough heads cut off. I’d be happy with a jury trial for Sadr.

    [quote]Caution is the best thing to do here. No one wants to see the destruction of an important site. Ultimately I think the residents of Karbala and other holy cities in Iraq will demand that Sadr give himself up and leave them well alone. After all, he’s really just an aprentice living on his father’s reputation rather than his own knowledge.[/quote]

    Agreed. I’m in favor generally of preserving any historic or religious site. I hate to see cultural landmarks destroyed for a passing advantage in a war. Look at all that was lost in Europe in the world wars. Everyone has an obligation to preserve the heritage placed in their care and pass it on to the next generation in good condition. Our military commanders in Iraq have an obligation to preserve these sites for the sake of world civilization.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    24 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    You made me get my dictionary out to find the definition of jackanape.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    24 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    i didnt know what it meant either – but the poster reffered to me as such, and i responded in kind

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Nick Berg

    I’m sure you’ve seen this e-mail:

    Arabs are “outraged” over the humiliation of Iraqi prisoners at the
    hands of a few American servicemen.

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when necrophiliacs in Fallujah
    mutilated four American soldiers by stepping on their burnt skulls and
    hung their burnt bodies from a bridge?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when “palestinians” mutilated and
    dragged the bodies of two IDF soldiers in Ramallah?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when 19 Muslims blew up the World
    Trade Center and the Pentagon on 9/11/01?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when Muslims continue to slaughter
    Sudanese Christians?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when Muslims blew up Pan Am Flight 103?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when Muslims bombed the marine
    barracks in Lebanon killing 241 Americans in 1983?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when Muslims bombed the USS COLE ?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when Muslims bombed the American
    embassies in Africa killing 231 people?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when Abu Mazen engineered the “Black
    September” Terror Attack during the Munich Olympics, which killed 11
    Israeli athletes and a U.S. citizen ?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when ABu Abbas threw the wheel-chair
    bound Leon Klinghoffer overboard on the Achille Lauro?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when “Palestinian” rioters torched the
    Jewish-only Joseph’s Tomb ?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when the Taliban blew up the Buddhist
    statues in Afghanistan?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when simultaneous blasts rocked two of
    downtown Istanbul’s synagogues killing at least 15 people and wounding
    at least 140?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when “Palestinians” handed out candies
    celebrating the deaths of 3000 Americans on 9-11-01?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when Jemaah Islamiyah suicide bombers
    killed 12 people and injured 150 at the J.W. Marriott in Jakarta,
    Indonesia?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when bomb attacks in Morocco killed at
    least 28 people and injure more than 100?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when suicide bombers killed 12 people
    at an Israeli-owned beach hotel in Kenya and two missiles narrowly miss
    an airliner carrying Israelis?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when nearly 200 people, including
    seven Americans, were killed in bombings in a nightclub district of the
    Indonesian island of Bali?

    Where were these “outraged” Arabs when 300,000 Iraqi’s bodies were found
    in mass graves?

    Where was their indignation, folks? You know where? NOWHERE.

    It was nowhere because Arab outrage when someone non-Arab is a victim,
    does not exist, it does not rate. Why? Because the Arab culture knows
    nothing but how to be proud and arrogant. The culture is a cohesive
    political glob of people united simply by religious identity and not at
    all by morality.

    It’s time for the rest of us, who DO know the difference between right
    and wrong, to tell the world that these “outraged” idiots are too
    pathetic to warrant any sympathy from the rest of us.

    We’re waiting for these “outraged” Arabs to get up the manhood to be
    disgusted BY THEIR OWN people for the disgusting crimes they have
    committed against others.

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    [color=red]see now that is sick… all who believe that the beheading of Nick Berg was ok need to go back to your own country because you don’t even deserve the rights and freedom that you recieve from OUR COUNTRY. I am sick of these digusting happenings. Maybe you need to go home and see whats really happening, insted of living it up in the US! To Nick Berg’s family, i am from philadelphia myself, you are in my prayers along with nick. God Bless You!

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    steve ..

    methinks the gentleman doth protest too much. just give us a head’s up before you go into iran and syria. and for the record – i prefer mcnuggets.

    incidentally – whats your view on chalabi? 😉 or has he been cast out with the saudis as a ‘has been’ friend????

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    steve steve steve ..

    if the israeli pro peace silent majority (who have full and equal citizienship, voting rights, etc.) cannot be effective in having their voice heard against ari sharon and likud -how do u expect the palestinians to accomplish the same?

    the mcnugget lover

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Do you have children? And if you do, I guess it would be just bad luck if they were beheaded!

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Do you have children? And if you do, I guess it would be just bad luck if they were beheaded!

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Do you have children? And if you do, I guess it would be just bad luck if they were beheaded!

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Do you have children? And if you do, I guess it would be just bad luck if they were beheaded!

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Do you have children? And if you do, I guess it would be just bad luck if they were beheaded!

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    “There’s also the rather common sense observation that Al Qaeda did not have the expertise to pull off the Sep 11 attacks. Al Qaeda does not do hijackings. September 11 was their only one. Al Qaeda does simple attacks, making big bombs and driving them to where the infidels are. The hijacking expertise came from outside Al Qaeda. The complexity of the plan, the training required, and the discipline with which it was executed are indicative of a professional intelligence organization, not a religious mafia living in the Afghan wasteland. ”

    Steve … I am becoming more and more convinced that you have Arab Blood in you – because – your line of thinking and conspiracy theory is EXACTLY why a lot of Arabs think that Mossad was behind the 9-11 bombings!!!

    Q: Who had the most to gain from the trajectory of 9/11-bombing of Afghanistan- remove WMD’s in Iraq -sorry – introduce democracy in Iraq- sorry – fight the war of terror in iraq?!
    A: I dunno. hmmm. Israel, perchance? At the expense of Saudi, perchance?

    Who let the dogs out, who?

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    Steve ..

    The comment about wisdom was in reference to UFO’s.

    But – since you asked .. America was created out of Puritan fundies who left the old country for being persecuted, were they not? After they ethnically cleaned the indegenous population in what is now known as the US or A? And then ensured that the US constitution was based on religion? In God we Trust and all of that? And then we also have the eye and the pyramid? (but shhh .. lets not talk about the freemasons …)

    As for religious nuts running your lives … lol! Look at the White House my friend – dont you think its pretty scary that Dubya honestly beleives that his commitment to Israel is based on the Old and New Testament?? And that he has to play his role??

    I would rather have a Kissinger dictate policy based on strategic Macchiavellian interests than have a ‘religious nut’ dictate it on the back of a book of human stories ..

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    WHAT A GREAT IDEA!
    Did ALLAH request a parking lot somewhere in the Middleast?

    PARKING will cost $5.00 American dollars daily. HA!
    Radioactivity is included with this deal…..

    Cheers Osama!

    EMAN

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    Sub-humans don’t need a reason to be idiots!
    it’s just the way it is….

    Take a look at the stone-age!
    EMAN

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    Well spoken my friend.

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Typically anonymous

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    the hell they don’t know what they are doing

  • anonymous
    26 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    You bring shame and disgrace to Islam. No wonder…with one’s such as you, westerners will never warm to what role Islam has in the world..

  • anonymous
    27 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    learn to spell

  • anonymous
    27 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    For all of you, who are ignorant to think that we Americans need your oil, think again. We produce more than 50% of our own oil, and only obtain roughly 8% from Iraq. Do not pass on ignorance to others, learn about what you are preaching. That is the problmen with the fundamentalists. The majority of them don’t know how to read their own bible, so they depend on the extremists to teach them what “Allah” wants and they are being taught not what God wants, but what those murders want. It is control by fear. There is not God that would want someones head to be sawed from their bodies. It amazes me how people say that he had his head cut off. It wasn’t that clean. It is repulsive and those animals need to be broght to justice.

  • anonymous
    27 May 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    no they are typical,if they were the worst there would be an outcry from decent people from that area,but none is shown. follow the money and how these people are paid to do there cowardly acts. paid to send there children to die so there families can get money from other cowards who wont die for there cause . it is easier to pay idiots to do there dirty work

  • anonymous
    27 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    I cant say that Im for violance but when you are dealing with people that live their lives for it, and use there religeon to back up there hatred you have to deal with it as such. They come to the US for schooling and building there business’s while they are sending their riches home to suport this violence. We need to restrict the money leaving this country that goes to suport this from the Muslims that want to live in the US. Seperate there oil from the rest of their country, and bomb them like we did (at the time) the violent and growing Japan to break there backs and show them that this type of behavior isnt going to be tolerated any longer from anyone US or the world. You CAN’T deal or negotiate with people that kill their own kind with words or hope !

  • anonymous
    27 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    I agree religion should not be used as a back up of killing another human beings, humans in general have been choping off heads, torturing and killing other human beings for centuries in sick manors that suited the times, but were not in the medieval days anylonger ! their are better ways to deal with situations then cutting another mans head off! For your OIL, what would it matter if we were eyeing it you dont have the man power to run your own refinerys who else is going to do it? obviously not the Muslims, you build the refinerys and they sit and rot in the deserts becuase you dont know how to run them.
    The US have done alot of bad things along with the rest of the world at times, how ever we got rid of a Hitler that ran your country and killed and raped your women and children !
    If you had the capibilty to deal with and set up a government that ran your country in a manor other then choping off heads, maybe we would leave Iraq, because we dont like our men being there anymore then you want them their, duh.

  • mahmood
    27 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    duh, having the world’s largest oil production companies we CAN and DO run our own refineries and oil fields thank you very much. We have world reknowned oil & gas scientists in the world, have some of the world’s most powerful computers and have written some of the world’s best O&G software to help us run this industry.

    Please get your fact right before mouthing off. Oh, you might want to check your Hitler facts as well while you’re at it.

    Duh!

  • anonymous
    27 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    What a load of bullshit! I support the President and I support the people of Iraq and the muslim world. The cowards that slaughtered Nick Berg are hiding behind a faith that does not want them.

  • anonymous
    28 May 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    I say the united states should leave all other countries alone and fix the problems that we have here instead of trying to solve other countries problems, and try to control them as well. It’s going down hill and fast. This country started out as a big melting pot of different cultures. Now, it’s just every man for yourself. I’m sorry for the death of nick berg, but should he have been over there in the first place? NO, I don’t think so. Why was he allowed to go to Iraqi in the first place? The united states just needs to leave other countries alone and let them fix their own problems. The problems here are being ignored by our leaders. If we had severe punishments for crimes, maybe we wouldn’t overcrowded prisons, a national debt and so on.

  • anonymous
    28 May 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Hitler=Sadam their’s a differance? You moran they are both killers and men that like to kill other human beings. and if you can run your own country then why do you need people there like nick berg to set up your new communication towers and american refinery workers their for your refinerys, and mind you these men have to be under american supervision and live behind steel fences to keep you people from murdering them. and how do I know this, my husband works for a refinery. o and where would your money come from if you didnt have american and other countrys spending there money on your oil? you’d have nothing which is what you people deserve. You say your in with the technology because a very select few and wealthy have computers? bleh what ever most of your people are starving, have little food, funiture and have been suffering at the hands of your own government.
    UPDATE: and btw people that are in with the times don’t make their women cover their faces or hair, treat them like their sub human and use them as baby making machines to suit your whim, then kill other humans in the name of the “mothers and wifes of your country”.
    Get out of the medieval ages and in with this century…
    enough said to you…
    you and your blind stupidty are dismissed from this conversation.

  • mahmood
    28 May 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Suggestion to the wise: join your husband, maybe then you will learn about the culture first hand, rather than carry on with a misbehotted diatribe.

    Technology in the Gulf – personal use: my house is typical of a high percentage of others in the area: we have a computer in every room, all connected to a local area network, served by a Linux server through then to the internet. I’m also installing a wireless network here next week.

    Technology in the Gulf – O&G level: Saudi Aramco, Zadco, QGPC, Bapco, and tens of others have the most powerful computers on Earth doing everything from 3D reservoir modeling, sceismic interpretation, through to downstream proceses in oil and gas production. They are manned by professionals where the “locals” number quite high.

    Security: If your husband is content to live behind steel barricades and not attempt to know the culture and people of the place he is a guest of, that’s his problem, not ours. Still he is most welcome and we thank him for his contribution.

    Notes:
    1. it probably would be helpful to you to use a dictionary once in a while, I suggest dictionary.com, it might help.

    2. Do keep an open mind. Although a dangerous thing, you will find that you will benefit most of your experiences rather than believe what you watch on TV. You will also have a very fulfilling life should you do.

    3. You are MOST welcome to carry on this converstation and please do not feel excluded, however may I also suggest that you post your comment respecting the thread and throughts written and keep on-topic? The whole Nick Berg article is very difficult, let’s not throw away his memory by concentrating on the negative, let us instead find ways of rapprochement.

  • anonymous
    29 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    And who are you? John Kerry?

  • anonymous
    29 May 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    [quote]I must make my point clear: Karbala and Najaf are two of the most holy cities for the Shi’a faith because of their sect leaders’ mausoleums. The importance of these cities are third only to Mecca and Jerusalem. So when a Shi’a sees that these cities are being desecrated of course they will feel wronged, as those cities do not just belong to the Iraqis but rather to the whole of Islam generally and the Shi’a particularly. Just as Catholics regard the Vatican their city regardless of the geography they reside in.[/quote]

    Actually, rather than compare the situtation to a hypothetical of how Catholics would react to someone attacking the Vatican, you only need look back two years to how riveted the entire Christian world was to the Iraqi/Palestinian standoff inside and around the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem – particularly when the fire broke out that almost destroyed the Basilica.

    I for one can understand being afraid of losing such a valuable and irreplaceable part of a cultural and religious heritage. The thought of Christ’s birthplace being destroyed mortified me, and I held the Israelis just as reponsible for chasing those people in there as I did the Palestinians for deciding it would be a good place to run to.

    brihana25

  • anonymous
    29 May 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    [quote]Where was their indignation, folks? You know where? NOWHERE.[/quote]

    I think you’re wrong.

    You’re asking the same kinds of questions that people just love to hurl at Americans, as if we each, personally, have wronged the world.

    The Arab outrage at acts committed by Arabs is there, just as American outrage at acts committed by Americans is here.

    It’s in the hearts and minds of souls of the people – the places it really matters. It may not be public, or a matter for front page headlines in the New York Time, but it is there. And so long as it is, so long as we all have the humanity left within ourselves to tell on our own – religion or birthplace or color of our skin notwithstanding – then the world has a chance.

    One chance.

    When we can say to each other, “You may call Him Allah, and I may call Him Jehovah, but I would be honored to call you “friend,” then there will be no need for anyone to apologize for anything that they themselves haven’t done.

    brihana25

  • anonymous
    30 May 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    I will meet you one day, and you will pay.

  • anonymous
    2 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    The world is lucky that the U.S. is not what much of the world says it is. Why send Americans to die in Fallujah and Najaf when we could sit back and shell the entire city from a safe distance then carpet bomb what is left? Or we could just push a button back in the U.S. and Vaporize every living thing in those cities. It’s what our enemies would do to us if they had the chance. But we don’t.

  • anonymous
    2 June 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    I’d agree with this statement, and I say that as someone who opposed the Iraq war and the necon manipulated second rater who led America into it. But I’d acknowledge that the way the US Army fights is many times morally superior to the adversaries its facing.

    Americans have a lot to be proud of in their military, with General Anthony Zinni a prime example of the quality of its leadership. Unfortunately America’s soldiers have been undermined by the bunch of draft dodging civilians who run the Pentagon.

  • anonymous
    2 June 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    [quote]”Re(3): Nick Berg
    Posted by: ANONYMOUS on May 27, 2004 02:16 AM
    learn to spell”[/quote] –
    You really do have mental isues if you cant ignore a few spelling issues. Grow up. Spelling is not the point here. Who ever wrote this is a sad, small minded individual

  • anonymous
    3 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    Hello,

    I am a Christian. Do you know why? Because the family I was born into raised me to be Christian. If you as a Moslem, why is that? Was it an enlightened choice? Or was it simply a circumstance of birth? And what if you had been born into a Jewish family? Wouldn’t you have then been raised as a Jew? Would that make you better or worse? You would be the same person really, just happen to be born here or there. It is hypocritical to think that being raised as a Moslem or a Christian or a Jew defines who you are. You can neither take credit for it nor be blamed for it. The prophet Mohammed clearly stated that these are all children of Abraham and people of the Book. Nick Berg is just some guy who happened to be born in the U.S. It could have been you.

    The idea that brothers in the muslim world should be left to kill each off is babaric and stupid. There would be no west if the muslims had not saved our culture for us while we slaughtered each other mindlessly in Europe in the dark ages. 9/11 taught us a lesson: if you allow fellow human beings to live in despair, they will find a way to share it with you.

    Freedom, peace and security are truly universal. We all want it. And none of us can have it unless all of us have it.

    Think about that.

    I would rather not post as anonymous and my name is David Edwards.

  • anonymous
    4 June 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    If the killers were REAL men, they would’ve untied Nick, given him the knife and faced him uncovered, 4 on 1. Pathetic little gangstas who hide in rat holes, cover their faces and are so stupid as to blow themselves up just to injure women and children on buses are the best martyrs that Islam can offer? Holy “warriors”? Geez. What they did took no courage, no guts, and there was no glory in it. They are going straight to hell if they do not repent of their false religion and murderous actions. Read the Bible, the new testament. Jesus, the REAL son of GOD preached peace, loving your neighbor, turning the other cheek. Some Muslims claim that Islam teaches the same, is it true? Not many extremist Christians out there, beheading helpless, bound prisoners. No honor, no glory, no brains. The guys who killed Nick Berg were pathetic wussies, and anyone who supports them is the same. If you want to be a “real” man, try understanding and accepting those who don’t support you and follow your ways. Living in peace is much harder than behaving like an animal.

  • anonymous
    4 June 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    fuck you towl head I hope you all die

  • anonymous
    4 June 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Needless to say, I disagree with this foolish remark.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    6 June 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    What happend to Nick Berg can never be justified. Killing someone, when he is defenseless and then air this brutral crime can only pay those murderer’s our hatred. I am not an American, nor i m a muslim or a firm believer of any religion. I am first a human being.
    But, such brutal acts against the US proves that how much hate the people from other part (so called-third world) are keeping against the Western world. This is all result of the Dubious policy of US and its allies. Today US takes independent actions, bypassing UN.
    But they attacked on Iraq, when they American’s themselves feel insecure. But, did they really intervene, when killings were made in Kashmir…When China supplied Weapons to PAK…etc. They need to Re-think, where they went wrong..and then take appropriate actions. At the same time, the people who were behind the Nick berg murder…BEWARE OF GOD | ALLAH.

  • anonymous
    11 June 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    We die everyday for what we believe. We believe in the God almighty maker of heaven and Earth. We take a vow to defend our Core, Unit, God, and country. We die for the beauty that we believe can still be lived in on this Earth with all brothers and sister, black, white, green blue. We fight to have a free world. We fight and die for the freedoms of others. Maybe it is you who fight and die for world domination that needs therapy. Fact is Nick’s death was a tragedy. But the memory of him is in the hearts of us all forever. And it will make us fight harder and die with more pride then ever before.

  • anonymous
    11 June 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    [Everyone knows this is not about oil. This is about a sick, disgusting religion that preaches death to infide]

    First of all as Christian woman who comes from a family that believes in many walks of religion I can tell you that you are so WRONG about the Muslim religion. They DONT preach death. They preach LOVE.
    Many Christians have claimed to be very active in their belief yet they murder and rape young children, men and woman. There are sick people with twisted beliefs of the facts in every religion. So to you I would suggest that before you judge another relgion and attack them you study up on what the religion is about. I’m proud to be a christian, but even more proud to be from a country that fights for others relgions in the manner they should and were intended to be practiced.
    Rachel Meagan

  • anonymous
    14 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    Should have just left Saddam in charge! Then there would not be all this shit!

  • anonymous
    14 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    How many Iraq women and children must die in order for us to say we avenged 9/11?

    We already killed over 5000!

  • anonymous
    14 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    Dumb ass should not have been over there! He was looking to get rich, but got fucked!

  • anonymous
    14 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    Joining the US military is like committing suicide! They give paper thin flak vest and shitty m-16 paper spit wads! US soldiers are better off with ak47’s!

  • anonymous
    14 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    NO one can mess with us Asians!

    Americans only defeated Japs, but with the a-bomb! (cheaters)

    A Draw in Korea!

    Lost in Vietnam!

    Philipine was more about Spanish folks!

    Representing the AZN, bitches!

  • anonymous
    14 June 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    [quote]The Arab outrage at acts committed by Arabs is there, just as American
    outrage at acts committed by Americans is here.

    It’s in the hearts and minds of souls of the people – the places it really
    matters. It may not be public, or a matter for front page headlines in
    the New York Time, but it is there[/quote]

    Rubbish, you obviously dont live in the Middle East, there was NO indignation here, from governments OR the media! The ONLY indignation and outpouring of anger is when Muslims are killed! This is a fact!

    There are many individuals who are outraged on a personal level, but thats about it, they only speak out when Muslims are killed.

  • anonymous
    14 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    Take into consideration the consistant updgrades in weapons of mass destruction. The debate on US military occupation of Iraq is heated. It comes down to one simple fact, if we (humanity) leave terrosists…leaders such as Saddam in charge, free to enact their misguided hate upon the US and other civilized cultures we are only condoning future acts of violence and terror.

    The only way we can truly be rid of this threat is to strike at the root of the problem. As with any problem, ignoring it only allows it to become more of a problem.

    A major issue for most people is the focus on Iraq and the lack of focus on US internal issues. Ultimately terror is a problem for everyone. The US is not just another club, nor is any culture/country. We, as people are all in this together. I may be an American and I want to see America prosper but in the end we are all on the same team. Granted the odds of the World’s population ever evolving to this stage are unlikely, I would hope to see it happen someday before it is too late.

    My condolences to Nick’s family. After seeing what kind of man Nick was through news articles I can only say that despite the tragic end he met, his life had real meaning. Nobody can choose when or where their time on this planet ends, but they can choose how they spend the time they have. Nick clearly spent his well.

    Geoff

  • anonymous
    14 June 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    [quote]I may be an American and I want to see America prosper but in the end we are all on the same team.[/quote]

    Go tell the Wahhabis that you’re all on the same team and they will cut off your head and send the video of it to Al Jazeera.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    14 June 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    [quote]”Go tell the Wahhabis that you’re all on the same team and they will cut off your head and send the video of it to Al Jazeera.”[/quote]

    Steve is it? Read between the lines. My argument is about striking the root of the problem. In the end, when all is said and done, we are all human, we are all in this together. Doesn’t mean for a second that I’m trying to understand or side with the filth that beheaded Nick or any other similar act of violence.

  • anonymous
    15 June 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    I’m not implying that you side with the Wahhabis but rather that your appeal to a common humanity is naive. We and the Wahhabis are not all in it together any more than we and sharks are all in it together. Appeals to their decency are in vain. The only effective way to deal with them is to crush them like bugs.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    15 June 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    The US “suicide” troops are using their M-16s to kill Sadr’s militia, armed with AK-47s, in Fallujah with “paper spit wads” rather effectively. The US is trading one dead GI for sixteen dead Sadr militia. Which side of that battle would you rather be on?

    In Afghanistan, some Marine units are trading one dead Marine for eighty dead Taliban and Al Qaeda. I’ll bet those Taliban would like some of those “paper thin flak vests” the Marines have.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    15 June 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    Sharon was elected because the Palestinian terror tactics make peace overtures ineffective. No peace party in Israel is going to have any traction with the electorate if the Palestinians reject peace in favor of war.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    15 June 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    That won’t work. We can’t ignore other countries problems because they become our problems, crashing into our skyscrapers in suicide jets. It’s better to proactively preempt problems overseas before they land in our laps here in the States.

    Also, your argument about needing more severe punishments for crimes so as to reduce prison populations doesn’t make sense. We have larger prison populations precisely because the punishments have been made more severe.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    15 June 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    I probably should elaborate. We seem to be on the same page for the most part anyway. I would hope for some form of union between humanity realistically within the next 1,000 years. We are far from it. Naive? Wishful thinking would be more appropriate. When I saw the video of Nick Berg I was enraged.
    The garden variety terrorist has no sense of honour, pride, or respect for humanity. Ultimately I have more respect for bugs.

    Geoff

  • anonymous
    15 June 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    I can not beleive the hate that you people have. I tried time and time not to judge all Muslims, but for the love of God….”what is wrong with you”? Do you not have any peace and love within? You seem to be very troubled and misled. I hope that “God” (yours or mine) will one day save you. Remember, everything done has a consequence. There are so many tragedies and illnesses in life that it makes no sence to carry on with this madness. SAVE YOURSELVES. We all know the difference between right and wrong. How can we ever compare a human life to oil and other material things. Get over it and I hope that the generations that will follow, will not have to pay for all the Evil you preach and do.

  • anonymous
    16 June 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    I personally seen the Nick Berg video…That was a god awful experience.Im an american and i do not hate the islam people for this.I am dissapointed in you, sir watch this video as they destroy a piece of humanity and love… then say that they are gods….

  • anonymous
    16 June 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Steve, I like you and your posts, you bring a good balance to the proceedings, BUT I hardly think the Dalai Lama is in any way guilty of his country being occupied?

    Supposng we were all Budhists, then surely the Dalai Lama is doing his ‘job’ he is surviving to pass on his message?

    As it is, I am NOT a Budhist, but I do see where the Dalai Lhama is coming from. For I DO respect other cultures and try to learn as much as I can about EACH persons cultures and beliefs, how they became what they are, how they were brought up, what is the moral /cultural/religious background of the person, what is their societies view of the future of their country and where that view fits in with other cultures/religions!

    I see YOU Steve as someone who is TRYING and doing a bloody good job of researching your countries percieived enemies before making your mind up….Evil does NOT exist in a religous frame Steve, it only exists in the mind of man in my opinion. Evil is as Evil does!

  • [deleted]0.57833900 1099323359.369
    18 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    I wish to express my horror and despair at the reported barbaric murder of Paul Johnson, and to extend sympathy and support to all his family and friends.

  • anonymous
    18 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    I am utterly sickened by the murder of Mr Johnson. Absolute barbarity.

  • anonymous
    18 June 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Whether you believe in Allah,Jesus or Buddha ,any religion that believes killing is “the right thing to do” is crazy. If you believe you will be rewarded by blowing yourself up or other people, then somewhere you have gotten off track with your beliefs. I am an American and would never kill someone to achieve a goal.

  • anonymous
    18 June 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Just a few thoughts on the Mid-East Conflict. A lot of the Hatred toward the United States comes from their support of Isreal. I have a few questions for you. Why do the Arabs and other Mid East peoples look at themselves and place some blame there? The Palistinans(spelling?) were sold out by their own people. The wealthy ones are the people who sold the land to create Isreal. Then they all took of to France, Switzerland and left the the poor ones behind. What lands were taken after the war are up for dispute. Why do the Mid East nations pitch in, if Isreal gave up the Gaza Strip (which they are doing) and Jordan,Syria and Lebonon gave up a little piece of land there would be plenty of room for a Palistinian State. Keep in mind they were sold out by their own people.

    The United States serves as a buffer between the two. Bear in mind with out the United States Isreal would no longer exist. On the other side with out the United States I’m sure the palistinians would have wiped out by the Isrealies. All the other Mid East Nations do is Nothing.

    Why is it by day many Muslims declare their hatred toward the United States then by night they enjoy the benifits the U.S provides? You take advantage of our Universities you study here. You Drive our cars, drink our Coca Cola and wear our jeans take our medications. How Many of you U.S. Haters are posting here using a Dell? a gateway? Microsoft?

    As for the oil thing. The United States gets most of its oil from other sources Russia, Mexico Veniszuela and othe South American Countries. Only about 17% of oil is from the Mid East.

    The United States did not invade Iraq for oil. Why would they spend trillions of Dollars in War costs and recontruction costs years of manpower for a few billion Dollars in oil. It doesn’t add up.

    What has the United States done for you to distrust them? Look what happened in Afganastan. Is it not a much more stable place now? What was stolen? You think we want your oil? Please!

    Steve C.

  • anonymous
    18 June 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Risible post.

  • anonymous
    18 June 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    Please explain what you find Laughable about the last post?

    Steve C.

  • anonymous
    19 June 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    God be with Nick and the Berg family. May god also be with all of those misguided “soldiers” in our armed forces who helped bring this on our American people with all of their mindless shenanigans. GOD (Jesus) is Great!

  • anonymous
    19 June 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Hey come on! Not everyone has English as their first language, stop being an idiot, does the lack of fluency in English mean that the person has no right to speak out? Should we not give a little here, after all Mahmoods first language is not English, he just happens to be fluent in it, not everyone is you know!

  • anonymous
    19 June 2004

    Re: comment by American on how bad our country is

    Our nation is still one of the greatest on earth and our problems our nothing compared to that of other countries. Yes, look at our cities and our hungry and needy people and they still have it better than others do elswhere in the world. Better yet they have more choices and oppurtunities than others would in the same situation elswhere. If you are a Bush hater that is one thing, but that is a seperate subject entirely. I am 25 have a brand new house, a car, boat, 4-wheeler, college education, and money in the bank all of wich I achieved on my own made possible by the oppurtunities available to me by being an American. Oh yeah, and I’m female! Many people from other countries, especially females, are not fortunate enough to have such oppurtunities while many Americans are to lazy to take advantage of them. Why do you think so many people come to our country?

  • anonymous
    19 June 2004

    Not the us type

    you sound just as brainwashed and ignorant as the people you speak of

  • anonymous
    19 June 2004

    paranoid one

    you need to take your medication now so the mean little conspiracy theories will go away

  • anonymous
    19 June 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    This is to the person defending ignorance: What a stupid reply! Couldn’t you think of anything better? I can’t believe you actually think that way…how sad for you 🙁

  • anonymous
    19 June 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Honor??? You don’t know the meaning of the word “honor!”
    American’s may have humiliated your brothers, but we did not execute them. You have no right to speak of Allah as he condones this brutality!

  • anonymous
    21 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    To: the Asian defender…you must understand that with the Vietnam, and Korean war the United States military was under control of the congress. All has changed now; the US commanders are in charge of strategic matters. Plus you must remember that this my be a slight different matter for Korea considering this will be the first time they have not fought on their own soil since World War 2. Don’t talk about my country like that! Not to mention we baby-sit a lot of your country like Japan, South Korea, but in this matter its dumb ass’ like you that don’t think of future but the past you’re an idiot. You have now expressed how dumb people can be. Oh I’d be upset too if American’s like me can get nice Korean women like mine.

  • anonymous
    23 June 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    People who understand force and destruction????….The middle east has no idea of the kind of force and destruction that the US could rain down. With the weapons capability and the will, the US could blow the whole middle east off the map and the rest of the world wouldn’t have much choice but to sit back and watch cause they’d be next. This is wrong..do not misunderstand me…But the US is the most powerful and militarily superior country that the earth has ever seen but through compassion and a desire for a certain level of peace it wastes its time and the lives of its citizens on a region with no hope of peace until the little boys grow up and stop playing soldier and start sitting across from adversaries at tables and speaking like grown men do.
    I feel that the vast majority of arabs and muslims are peaceful and good people yet the media shows us only the fringe elements that seek attention by commiting acts of horrific violence as well as using their religion as an excuse to commit acts that said religion forbids and condemns.

  • anonymous
    23 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    Look…. if we don’t kill them all they’re all going to kill us! Americans have done so much for them and all they can do to thank us is kill the innocent. If i were Bush i would pull our troops and level the place! there never going to amount to any thing.
    Don’t you understand that they are always going to hate the Americans.. Everyone hates the good guy. They have no respect for life, they don’t care whether they live or die so why would they ever care about us!
    I say we kill them all before they all kill us! i don’t care if they live here or there… So god bless them… well yes…. but if they don’t beleive which obviously not …. then God Bless America! and save us from these Evil People! THANK YOU god bless

  • anonymous
    23 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    jesus loves you good bye (say is funny high pitched voice)

  • anonymous
    23 June 2004

    Kim Sun-il

    Why the bias here?

    Nothing BIG on the front/article page for the Korean who died a disgusting death Mahmmod? Are we just getting used to behaeadings or is because he was not western?

    My prayers for his family!

  • anonymous
    23 June 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    The problem for the wacky Mossad Did Sep 11 theory is there is no evidence to back it up, only wild speculation. By contrast, there’s quite a bit of evidence of Iraqi contacts with Al Qaeda.

    When you give the Mossad theory more than a cursory look, it looks crazier than the first look. Would Israel threaten its most important relationship for a passing advantage?

    Sorry, you need to go back to the drawing board, light up some more of that mujahideen dope, and come up with a new conspiracy theory.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    23 June 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    [quote]If i were Bush i would pull our troops and level the place! there never going to amount to any thing. [/quote]

    Interesting point of view, I don’t blame you for thinking this way. Consider this though, every terrorist killed is one less to deal with on the field and one less bad influence on islamic youth.

    It’s easy to turn on the news week after week and literally boil with frustration. Trouble is none of this will just go away. Everyone has to deal with the cards they’ve been dealt. Iraq is not a terrorist nation. This is a common misconception, you can’t simply walk down the street and point out 5 terrorists. There is a working government being formed as we speak. There are people just like you and me trying to live a normal life.

    We as Americans take certain freedoms from our life for granted daily. Democracy is not a monopoly, everyone deserves a chance at it. If we simply pull out and bomb away (which seems to be a popular opinion) we will probably kill a very small portion of the world’s terrorists and obliterate a society of innocent people trying to adopt our beliefs.

    Vent away, in light of recent events everyone is entitled to be angry, I know I am…but within reason. Lets attack the problem, the real issue. People tend to throw accusations and off the wall comments towards the opposite direction as a standard. It doesn’t do any good, it makes for a good debate sometimes playing the antagonist, but as a standard proves to be pointless and a waste of time.

    Geoff

  • mahmood
    24 June 2004

    Re: Kim Sun-il

    Not at all. I am as disgusted as you are and the rest of the world for the manner of his demise. I haven’t posted anything about him yet because I simply have not had the time.

  • anonymous
    25 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    You muslims or Allah lovers, Iraqi’s…all you middle eastern ass lickers…all of you are sick…telling each other “Oh, your not going to heaven” I mean, who the hell do you think you are telling the person next to you they are not going to heaven, you dont know that…let me tell you something…Did you know in the 10 commandments created by God…he said “Though shall not kill” ” though shall not hate” I am so glad and fuckin thankful I live in Canada…People are trying to rebuild your country and help get your shit together but instead you shit on them…and you kill YOUR OWN PEOPLE!!!! Yale are going to HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • anonymous
    25 June 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Ah, another fanatic has popped by… so different but SO similar in tone from the ‘other sides’ fanatics. It was but a fleeting visit but he is missed already.

  • anonymous
    25 June 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    I’m kinda glad you live in Canada, too.

    Steve
    USA

  • anonymous
    25 June 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    American soldiers had nothing to do with the Wahhabis cutting Nick Berg’s head off. Nothing. The Wahhabis were cutting heads off long before America went to Iraq. They cut off Daniel Pearl’s head before America went to Iraq. They like cutting off infidels’ heads and will use any passing excuse to shift the blame elsewhere, because there are always simple-minded fools who are easily distracted by such rhetoric.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    28 June 2004

    Terrorism in this modern day world!

    Everybody needs to take a moment to reflect on the reality of all these situations, and who is actually benefiting. (pause for a moment) The real one who is benefiting from this — but most of all sitting back and laughing at these people is: the Deceiver- himself, Satan – The devil- whatever you want to call him. His one and only job is to pull as many souls down with him; that he can. Because it never has stated in any “spiritual” books- to kill for gain. Remember this: The greatest trick the devil can ever pull is convincing the world he doesn’t exist. Thus– Ephesians 6:10-19 states: “For we do not battle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, for this we must put on the whole body armour of GOD”. Everybody states that if we start doing things differently we can change the world- but they are -way- wrong. That’s the whole reason of God’s elect- the chosen few-the real followers of Christ and of God thru the Holy Spirit. Ensure your spiritual freedom and do not die the second death= death of the spirit. Change your mode of thinking toward one another and things will really start to change. Read-Study-Learn the ways of Christ- which is the only real way to the kingdom of heaven!

  • anonymous
    28 June 2004

    Re: Terrorism in this modern day world!

    Your fervent assertion that the only way into heaven is to adopt your flavor of Christianity doesn’t sound much different from the Wahhabis assertion that they alone have the keys to paradise.

    We don’t need any more religious fanatics. We have plenty now, thank you very much.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    28 June 2004

    Here we go again, start hoping folks

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3845111.stm

  • anonymous
    29 June 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    i jut wanna say fuck Allah an fuck muslims , fuck you terrorists

  • anonymous
    30 June 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    [img]

  • anonymous
    30 June 2004

    Nick Berg

    The world is full of revenge and death everyday do we all have a reason to feel sympathy for one person who dies, YES we do cause we are human, But are we all human yes to a certain extent, When we wagw war against a country that insist on bad mouthing America. Americans seem to become a little upset, Since while we were sitting around our offices when two giant planes hit the buildings we worked in we might be a little torcked off. I don’t think that anyone should die for what i belive in I think I should die for what i belive in, Nor will i sit here and bad mouth muslims or allah for that would only make me the same. With war comes rules of war and with thid we know america follows them no matter what other countries do cutting off heads on videos or shooting peopl in the street its all a ploy to anger americans. I am a former us marine and seeing people fighting over what is in front of them is insane, If i killed your brother or sister you would kill my whole family to set things right or maybe you would just kill me or just my brother or sister, but my piont is there will never be an end to this war, they have been fighting for hundreds of years and belive in this fight, we have everything they want and they have nothing to live for but allah to them this is the only way to get honor, i fiind honor in turnig the other cheek, cuase as a usmc i know that i am still alive since god wanted it that way, and I hope and pray for all of you who belive more death is needed to solve this, we will never stop terrorism kill one and that persons family will jion to get even, we are human and we all bleed red blood if you spill it you have broken a comandment that was written by god no matter what your religion thou shalt not kill is a universal phrase and if you are not religious you still know that killing another is wrong and you will be punished for it, but that is gods job to do maybe we should learn a lesson here and let god do his job and revenge all of the deaths in this war as he has done for all the wars. This world is a material thing and will be gone soon while we are killing one another and murdering people here in america just think what would everyone do if Jesus came down during all that we would stop to check out what was going on in the sky and fall to our knees and ask for forgivness , to late cause anger and revenge has taken over our heartes, I will pray for all of you including myself for what i have thought about doing to them and continue to belive that god will solve this one not america or iraq or china or england or anyone of this matter. We look like a bunch of monkeys fighting over one branch to sit on, when we can all share the branch and let the freedom ring. I remeber cryong for all those people who died in the 911 attacks but i don’t want anyone from over there or from any were to feel the way i did that day i will take there pain and make it mine swallow it and go on with my life. My respects goes out to all the the people who are being beheaded and i would give mylife to stop anymore killings if it would help but kill as many as you want no one will stop this war no peace will ever come out of it we will always be a part of this war. Good luck america and good luck to iraq no one will prove anything to those who are already dead they can hear or see what is going on so they can’t be revenged. president bush has made mistakes as all of the presidents have but you would have made the same ones if you had an intire country morning over the deaths of americans i saw him crying in the church that day this president has be one of the best yet since regan or washington or lincon, but we don’t know the evil that lerks in the office either money make s the world go around no peace we will never have that we made that choice by the hand of eve and adam who ever belives in me shall have everlasting life and will live to see another day another day this is were we should look the bible tells of this war and all of the other wars is the worlds largest dictionary and will explain the future if you will listen to it. Lay down your guns america lay down you guns Iraq and anyone else ready to pick one up lay it down before we shed more blood, we always talk about never having a perfect unity between countries why? Cuase on man or woman wants more power than another FOR GODS SAKE WE CAN VISIT MARS HELL WE CAN LIVE THERE IF WE WOULD LEARN TO COME TOGETHER AND LIVE WITH OUT GREED BUT I SEE THIS FUTURE AND WORLD SLOWLY GOING AWAY NO MATTER WHAT SIGNS YOU ALL GET YOU CONTINUE TO KILL AND JUDGE. WE ARE ALREADY IN HELL JUST OPEN YOUR EYES. i HOPE GOD STRIKES ANYONE DEAD THE NEXT TIME THEY THINK OF KILLING ANOTHER PERSON OVER LAND MONEY SEX GREED OR ANY MATERIAL OBJECT, WE NEED ANOTHER MOSSES TO SHOW THE PEOPLE WERE THE TRUTH LIES, BUT NO ONE SEEMS TO HAVE ENOUGH FAITH TO EVEN BELIVE GOD CAN SOLVE THIS WAR. aMERICA BRING OUR SON AND DAUGHTERS HOME LETS NOT SHED ANYMORE DEATH LIVE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE GOT AND GIVE YOUR LUNGS THE CHANCE TO TAKE ANOTHER BREATH. bEST REGARDS TO AMERICA FOR THE EFFORT, WE GOT WHAT WE WANTED NOW LETS ADMIT TO IT AND GET OUT BEFORE ITS TO LATE. THE NEXT TIME WE WILL SEE AN ATTACK IS GOING TO BE IN AMERICA AGAIN AND WE WILL HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN BUT HERE WILL NEVER REPEAT NEVER BE AND END TO TERRORISM ANYWERE. THANX FOR THE CHANCE TO SPEAK JUST ONE AMERICAN TO ANOTHER.

  • anonymous
    30 June 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    [quote]THE NEXT TIME WE WILL SEE AN ATTACK IS GOING TO BE IN AMERICA AGAIN AND WE WILL HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN BUT HERE WILL NEVER REPEAT NEVER BE AND END TO TERRORISM ANYWERE. THANX FOR THE CHANCE TO SPEAK JUST ONE AMERICAN TO ANOTHER. [/quote]

    Your heart seems to be in the right place, not a bad argument all together. The only problem, and I have to remind myself of this daily, is that we do not live in a world free of death, destruction, and terrorism. Odds are there will always until the end of time be someone with a plan to maim and kill.

    This is our world my friend and the only way it is ever going to change, the only way we are ever going to break the chains of terror in this case is to dig down to the root.

    Granted many people will have to die to get there we have no choice. We can’t simply pull out and act as if it didn’t happen, we can’t teach love of humanity and honour to these people. Every life lost, every tragedy is worth it if it prevents one of the many potential terrorists from walking across the Canadian or Mexican border and setting off a nuke or any other weapon of mass distruction, this applies to all countries world wide.

    As far as I’m concerned these terrorists are going to live on and on and on, teaching their children, their children’s children and so forth. Their ideals, their beliefs which contradict every principle of our modern society have to be exterminated as if they were a plague or infestation of rats. Now, generalizing all other defects traveling from generation to generation…those can be dealt with in time. By this I mean general parenting. Nobody is perfect though when a child is taught from birth to hate their enemy that the greatest moment of their life consists of a bag of plastic explosives and an easy target generally containing civilians we have a problem….one that can only be dealt with head on intensly until it is gone or very close to it. The fact that there is organized terrorism tells me that we have a problem that everyone should acknowledge worldwide. If we quit now, we are neglecting all those that have died starting from 9/11.

    We started it, lets finish it.

    Geoff

  • anonymous
    30 June 2004

    Re(6): iraq people are so stupid this is to iraq people the are jews entersand man and barney jews.

    they are so stupid nick berg just went there to help them clean up there city and other things if i was there nick berg would still be alive and the iraqies who killed him would be dead.god bless nick bergs family.

  • anonymous
    30 June 2004

    Re(6): iraq people are so stupid this is to iraq people the are jews entersand man and barney jews.

    they are so stupid nick berg just went there to help them clean up there city and other things if i was there nick berg would still be alive and the iraqies who killed him would be dead.god bless nick bergs family.[color=darkblue][/color][size=24][/size][size=18][/size]

  • anonymous
    30 June 2004

    Re: Terrorism in this modern day world!

    SNORT…. ooh lookie here, an evangelist GUFFAW.

    I have studied the bible, koran and budhism, this is WHY I am an athiest! Satan does not exist in my opinion, evil in the hearts of men does however! There are such things as athiest arabs you know, we dont try and shove athiesm down your throat though. You talk as though we are all religious here, what has your christ got to do with the mess the world is in?

  • anonymous
    1 July 2004

    Nick Berg

    The following was written by a CANADIAN – Gordon Sinclair – who died in 1984… I suggest that all Mid-Easterners read this carefully and please tell me what/when and HOW the countries of the MidEast have “helped” other countries:

    Begin:
    This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

    Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

    When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

    The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I’d like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States Dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas 10? If so, why don’t they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American planes?

    Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon — not once, but several times – and safely home again.

    You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

    When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

    I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don’t think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

    Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I’m one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those.
    ———-end———-

    Now, Instead of Americans –coming from thousands of miles away– and attempting to “fix things”, WHY AREN’T these “Mideast problems” completely solved by OTHER Mideast countries?

    Americans are getting pretty tired of it themselves.

  • anonymous
    1 July 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    if Nick berg was a mossad agent, which he most probably was, then God is not with him,and he deserved to die!

  • anonymous
    1 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Excuse Me! its the Arabs who civilised you! Go read the correct history and you will find out that the Arabs have been and are more civilised than you ragheads. Well…if you want to solve all the problems in the Earth, then just kill all the Jews…only then will there be true peace in this World. We should go with the motto: “Anyperson, whatever your religion, kill one jew for Paradise!”. God damn all jews like nick berg!

  • anonymous
    1 July 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    My dear brother,
    Jesus is not God/Lord! He never claimed to be. Infact he always said that he by himself can do nothing. There is not one verse in whichever Bible you bring forth in which Jesus says:”Im God” or “Worship Me”.
    Dear Brother, by regarding Jesus as God you are committing Blasphemy.
    We Muslims believe that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of God. We believe in his miraculous birth and all the other miracles which he did with God’s permission, which many Christians do not believe. There is more detail in the Quran about his birth than the Bible. There is and entire chapter dedicated to the mother of Jesus(may peace be on him) Mary. there is hardly any mention of Mary in the Bible. I mean no offence brother, but this religion of Christianity was started by the Jews in order to take you people astray. Jesus was a Muslim(one who submits his will to God). i invite you to the true religion of God, Islam and to the last testament, the Quran. I invite you to Muhammad’s religion who Jesus has spoken about in the Bible. The translation of of one of the verses of the Quran is as follows:”When truth is heard over falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood is bound to perish”. This is the reason why so many people are coming into the fold of Islam in the West, especially. Even if you dont accept Islam,…please dont Blasfhemize!

  • anonymous
    1 July 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Posted by: ANONYMOUS on June 29, 2004 03:01 PM
    i jut wanna say **** Allah an **** muslims , **** you terrorists

    in reference to this pathetic line written….it just shows how shallow some peoples’ minds are. i dont understand why this person has so much hatred in his heart!. If Muslims were terrorists, then there wouldnt be people in the west converting to Islam by the hundreds and thousands! its your brothers and sisters who have seen the truth and hence accepting Islam. Allah means God, which is also the same word used in the Hebrew, the language in which the bible was revealed. thus my friend, you are cursing God. By cursing Muslims you are cursing the people who submit their will to God. thus indirectly cursing God. And finally coming to the point of terrorists, my friend its your brothers and jewish friends(like Madeline Albright) in the US state department who are the real Terrorists. Because of them more than 500,000 Iraqi children died due to the embargo. Saddam was the closest ally to these brothers and “Friends” of yours. The weapons he used were provided by American companies. Christian Crusaders have killed more number of people than anybody else in the world. Christians like Hitler have killed millions. For this if i say that all Christians are Terrorists and Murderers, then it would not be right on my part , so please dont generalise.
    if you have made this statement on the basis that Islam promotes War and Fighting, then that is a totally wrong perspective. let me point out and Quote the words of Jesus(the messenger of Allah): “Dont think that i have come to spread peace, i have come to spread the sword”. this is from the bible!

  • anonymous
    1 July 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg- [b]Islam respects all religions[/b]

    Islam makes it compulsory for all Muslims to respect other religions. We are not even allowed to make fun of the 4 headed or 10 handed Idols that people worship. the Jews have been persecuted evrywhere in the world accept when they were in the Muslim countries. We muslims respect every human. In islam everybody is equal. A king and a pauper both stand side by side, shoulder to shoulder to pray in front of God. We have been thought by our prophet to support the truth, even if a muslim is on the wrong and a non-muslim is on the right. What happened to Nick Berg, should not have happened. But there is nothing to prove that this was carried out by the Iraqis themselves or by somebody else for their own vested interests and to spoil the image of the Muslims.

  • anonymous
    1 July 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Why the terms “Islamic Extremists” or “Islamist Terrorists”? Is this because these people happen to be Muslims? if so, then we should call all the dozens of terroist groups in Africa(Lords resistance army), Indonesia(East timor and the other islands), America(people like Timothy Mcveigh), Europe(Hitler and the Crusaders) and the rest of the world as “Christian Extremists” or “Christian Terrorists”! right?!…wrong! just because a person belongs to a particular religion, you cant hold the religion responsible for what that person is, only ignorant people do so!

  • anonymous
    1 July 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    Stop giving excuses, whoever you are. America may have been formed on great “principles” but no other nation has committed more atrocities than it/yours. Your country has killed millions in Korea, Vietnam, Hiroshima, Nagasaki and hundreds of places around the world. You saying that people are dumb that they think about the past and must look at the future, is totally basleless!!! if we go with your logic then, we should not try saddam for the war crimes he committed in the past(dont think about the past) and think about punishing him in the future IF he commits any crimes.

  • anonymous
    1 July 2004

    Nick Berg was a Mossad Agent

    Nick berg had ties with the Alqaeda. He didnt go to Iraq for money but as an agent for Israel. Like him the other 4 “contractors”( as they are conveniently called) killed in Fallujah also worked for an Israeli run Security firm (they were not innocent, there were merceneries!). Just because they were jewish more than 700 inncoent Fallujans were killed, not because they were American. America is controlled by the Jews and they use it for their own interests.

  • anonymous
    1 July 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Those men are SPINELESS COWARDS!!! Anyone who believes life is expendable are murderous swine. And they will not go somewhere greater when they die. They will go to a dark place. Made for scum like them. This does not scare the american people its just feuling a hate for muslims. For everyone they kill it makes us all suffer.

  • anonymous
    2 July 2004

    Nick Berg

    Re. the muslim who asserts that Christ was a muslim:
    The reason, my friend, that the word muslim and islam are not to be found even once in the whole new and old testament, is that M. aka the prophet, was not born till nearly 600 years after the death of Christ, and 2500 years after the era of Moses/Aaron.
    There was no such thing as islam, there were no moslems, until M. aka the prophet, ‘invented’ (or revealed, for the believer) his new belief system.
    The rest is what, politely, might be called cultural appropriation – ie steal the history of others.
    Arabs have lost their real history, the history before M. aka the prophet, and they have adopted twisted and incorrect versions of christian and jewish history, with the firm admonition from M. aka the prophet, not to read the jews story of their own history, or the christians own story of their own history because they were both lying and he, born hundreds to thousands of years after the events, knows the real truth.
    No wonder it took all those early wars recorded in the quoran in which M. aka the prophet, was himself a fighter and killer, – the war of badr, the war of uhud, the ahzab war, the bani qurayzah war, the bani mustalaq war, the khaybar war, the mutah war etc etc –
    to persuade other arabs to kneel and put their head to the floor, at least they still had one.
    Arabs did not submit willingly to M. aka the prophet, and his new religion. They fought him at every opportunity.
    It would be reasonable to me if arabs honored M. aka the prophet, as a founder of the arab ‘nation’.
    Any other perception of the guy is solely in the eye of the beholder.

  • anonymous
    2 July 2004

    Nick Berg

    Last two posts from Scarf.

  • anonymous
    2 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    u are rude! holy crap…are u sayin that ur happy that nick burg got killed? well w/e u need to find ur heart..and quit being so cold!

  • anonymous
    2 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    [quote]my friend its your brothers and jewish friends(like Madeline Albright) in the US state department who are the real Terrorists. Because of them more than 500,000 Iraqi children died due to the embargo.[/quote]

    Pure nonsense. Iraqi people suffered because Saddam was a tyrant who stole from his country without any care for the suffering of the everyday man on the street. Our forces captured nearly a billion dollars of cash that Saddam had siphoned off his illegal enterprises at the expense of his people. How much food, shelter, and medical care would that have bought? His sons were selling the medicine imported by the UN back out on the black market, uncaring of the suffering they caused.

    [quote]The weapons he used were provided by American companies.[/quote]

    More nonsense. As anyone can see just watching TV, Iraqis are armed with mostly Soviet weapons. During Saddam’s reign, the Soviets supplied about 60% of the weapons and Europeans most of the remainder. That’s why you see Iraqi soldiers carry AK-47s not M-16s, drive T-72 tanks not M-1s, fly MiGs not F-16s.

    [quote]Christian Crusaders have killed more number of people than anybody else in the world. [/quote]

    Most of the industrial scale killing has been done in modern times and involved no religious crusade. Mao killed the most, followed by Stalin, then Hitler. None of them were Christians and certainly none of them were fighting to promote Christianity but rather various flavors of atheist socialism.

    [quote]Christians like Hitler have killed millions. [/quote]

    Hitler was in fact a pagan who rejected Christianity. He favored the pagan gods of the Norse as depicted in Wagners operas.

    You have a lot of your facts scrambled, my friend. I think you need to find different sources of information other than your local radical mullah if you want to be respected for a thoughtful opinion.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    2 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    [quote]This is the reason why so many people are coming into the fold of Islam in the West, especially. [/quote]

    This is news to me. I don’t see many people here in America who are particularly attracted to Islam, other than a fringe of lost souls. Islam is particularly offputting in America now that it expresses itself in violence so regularly and unapologetically. There aren’t many people lining up here in the streets of Washington, DC to become Muslim.

    With a little research, I see that most of the Muslim increase in America is due to immigration, not conversion. Most of the few conversions are women who marry Muslim men who insist they convert. These women are often considered with pity here as foreign Muslim men have a reputation, fairly or unfairly, as abusive husbands and poor providers for their families.

    There are far more Americans converting to fundamentalist Christian religions like the Southern Baptists than to Islam. I’d guess that there are about as many Americans converting to Islam as there are joining UFO cults.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    2 July 2004

    Nick Berg

    Jews control America, sure, and Russia and China and India and all the planets worth controlling, several of the moons of venus and, well, we suspect much more but they deny, deny and deny.

  • anonymous
    2 July 2004

    Re: Nick Berg was a Mossad Agent

    Wow, you solved the mystery there friend. I suppose I could say that control is an illusion and the frequent racist, prejudice remarks made by the masses of ignorant drones like yourself are a result of a search for meaning and a pathetic attempt to make up for your own inadequacies but I’ll pass and simply ignore your comments until something intelligent is said.

    Geoff

  • anonymous
    4 July 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg- Conversions to Islam Quadriples after 911

    Brother, the conversions to Islam have quadripled. this is because after 911 people started exploring Islam and have found that Islam is the True religion, a religion without any fallacies or contradictions.

  • anonymous
    4 July 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    With you brother!

  • anonymous
    4 July 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    What im trying to say here is that some people here are generalising and holding Islam responsible for what a few people who happen to be muslims are doing. What im trying to get across to you is that a lot of people around the world kill and murder in the name of christianity, we dont call them christian fundamentalists or christian terrorists!… we shoudnt!. Sad that you people in the west so blindly believe in what your media gives you.

    I have never met a radical mullah in my life!

    It is many secular and fair western writers that are part of my source of information, who have proved that the weapons used by Saddam were infact provided by American Companies, under the “Auspicies” of the American Government to their great friend Saddam. it is not our Mullahs but your writers and critics of the Administration who have shown America’s true intentions in Iraq, why the embargos were imposed and what they achieved.

    Please refer to Robert Fisk, John Pilger, Greg Palast, Micheal Moore, to name only the very few individuals who unlike you any most others believe in the crap your media gives you.

    Pity on you.

  • anonymous
    4 July 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    Suicide Bombing may be wrong, some people say that they(bombers) are humiliated , but do you know to what extent?

    Any illegal occupier who comes in to your land, destroys your farms, bulldozers your house, kills your family members indiscriminantly, arrests your adolescent brothers, shoots, murders and maimes them, mentally tortures you by raiding your locality every other day and imposes embargoes and restrictions of all kinds….What do you do?!

    you cant go this occupier’s courts and file cases against the occupying army!… it just doesnt happen!!. it didnt work for the UN guy in gaza who was shot and killed with a bullet on the head by the Israeli army(among many such others, dont worry you people in the west wont even know about it!), high hopes its going to work for the Palestinians!

    There are thousands of palestinians in the Occupying forces’ jails, millions of refugees (in their own land), thousands of palestinians killed (more than 4000 since the latest intifada, most of them below 16 years of age) and thousands more maimed by israeli bullets while demostrating or throwing stones at the “tanks”.

    Reports say that the Israeli Occupiers have built a nuclear arsenal of more than a 100 warheads.

    international peace activists who stand by the Palestinians facing Israeli oppression, are beaten, arrested and killed. Dont worry in the western media youll never see those pictures.

    All the people who talk about America saving and helping so many countries, why dont they get the Israeli Illegal occupiers out and help the Palestinians get there land back. Why this hypocrisy by America and the west?

    Or is it that Israel is an exception? But why? Is there something that all western countries fear Israel for? Is there something that israel has that the west is scared of ? or more specifically is there something Israel controls which the west would die without?

    All questions, which i hope steve who is so “well informed” will answer!

    Good luck steve, but if you cant your friend here will surely do!

  • anonymous
    4 July 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Steve….i dont know where you get all this information from, your government could not determine whether there was a link between Iraq and Al qaeda, and here you are giving us such wonderful information….were you in any way involved in 911…just kidding!

    one of the major resons why i dont believe that the Arabs or Alqaeda would have done this act is because the flight manual that your country found was in Arabic., when even the flight manuals in Saudi Arabia are in English!!!!!!!!

    I dont understand why the government is not ready to show the evidence in public.

    hope you will provide us with genuine information and evidence that this was carried about by alqaeda and not by mossad.

    i dont know why steve, by all that i have read im starting to think that you yourself are a jew!

  • anonymous
    4 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Mr. Steve C. Who ever told you that if America was out Israel would not exist. its a joke!. America is “smaller Israel”, where are you my friend. The jews control everything in America, right from what you watch, what you eat, who your next president is going to be, how much your taxes would increase, they control your entire economy!

    i can prove it to you but i would first like to hear your case.

    If all the jews in America left one day and went to israel with all their assets, America would go back to the stone age!!!!!

    It is not America which does everything, it is the jews, the Zionists(same thing!) who do this for their own interests. If you didnt know, according to the jews Greater Israels’s terotary lies between the Euphrates and the Nile. They will do everything to get this portion of land for themselves. this is why they occupied Iraq.

    Go read the book by one great american, Henry Ford, the maker of the first car.

  • anonymous
    4 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    Of course you havent [quote]met a radical mullah in my life! [/quote]

    That would mean that you had met one who said, “lets live in peace, lets not be backward looking imbeciles, lets look to the future of our children within the framework of humanities future”

    No contest however on who supplied Saddams weapons or the rest of your comments, fair enough, you had a point there!

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    4 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    [quote]What im trying to say here is that some people here are generalising and holding Islam responsible for what a few people who happen to be muslims are doing.[/quote]

    That would be believable if Muslims as a whole publicly rejected and condemned Muslim terrorism. That’s not happenning. Many Muslims publicly voice their support for the terrorism but Muslims who publicly denounce it are few and far between.

    [quote]What im trying to get across to you is that a lot of people around the world kill and murder in the name of christianity, we dont call them christian fundamentalists or christian terrorists[/quote]

    Where exactly is that happenning? I read of many Muslims bombing churches and shooting up churchgoers, cutting off the heads of people of other religions, planting bombs next to synagogues, but I have yet to hear an account of Christian fundamentalists doing the same to Muslims or mosques. Please list a few of these incidents you claim to be happenning.

    To be frank, I think you’re lying to make your case.

    [quote]Sad that you people in the west so blindly believe in what your media gives you.[/quote]

    Were those jumbo jets crashing into the World Trade Center I saw via the media some sort of special effect? Was that videotape I saw in the media showing Bin Laden bragging about attacking the WTC some sort of a trick? Were those Palestinians shown dancing and passing out candies to celebrate the Sep 11 attacks not really there? Were the videotapes sold by mosques in American showing Muslim preachers inciting their congregations to fight jihad against America with guns not true? Are the beheadings displayed on the Islamic websites not happenning?

    [quote]It is many secular and fair western writers that are part of my source of information, who have proved that the weapons used by Saddam were infact provided by American Companies, under the “Auspicies” of the American Government to their great friend Saddam.[/quote]

    This is self-evidently false to the casual observer. The Soviet Union provided 60% of Iraq’s weapons with the Europeans providing most of the remainder. That’s why Iraqis carry AK-47s not M-16s, drive T-72 tanks not M-1s, fly MiGs not F-16s. I challenge you to back up your blatantly false assertion with even one weapon fielded by the Iraqis that is of US origin.

    Steve

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    4 July 2004

    Re(7): Nick Berg

    [quote]Is there something that all western countries fear Israel for? Is there something that israel has that the west is scared of ? or more specifically is there something Israel controls which the west would die without?[/quote]

    Is there someone who knows what the heck you’re talking about?

    Steve

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    4 July 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    Henry Ford was a great industrialist but also a despicable anti-Semitic. His family is embarassed by his Jewish conspiracy theories.

    Somebody has filled your head full of hateful nonsense, my friend. What you are saying is self-evidently crazy. I recommend you take a break from the mosque and get outside for some fresh air. Get a girlfriend. Nobody is going to take your opinion seriously if you just parrot propaganda conspiracy theories.

    Steve

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    4 July 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    [quote]No contest however on who supplied Saddams weapons or the rest of your comments, fair enough, you had a point there! [/quote]

    Actually, there is quite a contest between the truth and myth here. See my post below for the rather obvious truth that the Soviets supplied Iraq’s weapons. I challenge you to name one weapon fielded by the Iraqis that was supplied by the US. Since Saddam was supplied by America in your alternate universe, you should be able to name dozens right off the top of your head.

    You may begin now.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    5 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    nick berg was consorting with the enemy.

  • anonymous
    7 July 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    Steve! i had enough of this Wahabi Crap from you!
    Your Right Wing Neo-Cons are no better than the wahabis, infact far worse…maybe a thousand times worse. These Neo-cons of yours are responsible for the 100 of thousands killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These sub-humans are responsible for the murder of thousands of Afghan civilians. They are responsible for the approx. 2 million deaths in Vietnam. They are responsible for the thousands of Iraqi civilians bombed. They are indirectly responsible for the thousand sand thousands of Iraqis that died during the embargos. They are indirectly responsible for the murder in Palestine committed by their “big brothers” the Israelis.
    Your neo-cons are the real terrorists!
    You can see it so clearly through out the world, they dont let anybody live in peace. They destroyed Afghanistan to revenge 911. They made up a false case about Iraq’s WMDs, and invaded Iraq. They have helped big Organisations loot the 3rd world(presently looting Iraq!).described quite accurately by Naomi Klein in The Nation as “multibillion robbery”. They are responsible for setting up dictatorial regimes.
    Where do the Wahabis stand in comparison to this. Can anybody answer.

    Whatever i have said is true and i can prove it! can anybody prove that the wahabis are worse than the neocons?????!!!

    So, please, Steve stop spreading this propoganda of yours and talking about Wahabis and Islamic Extremists, when you got the real terrorists running your country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • anonymous
    7 July 2004

    Re(8): Nick Berg

    The jews have full or major control over everything in America. Lets start with the media and cinema:

    to name a few:
    Time-Warner
    AOL(almost full control)
    CBS
    Time, Inc.- Walter Isaacson, former editorial director
    HBO
    Warner Brothers Studio
    Castle Rock Entertainment
    New Line Cinema
    Walt Disney Company- Michael Eisner
    Touchstone Television-Michael Eisner
    Buena Vista Television-Michael Eisner
    Walt Disney Studios-Joseph E. Roth
    Hollywood Pictures-Joseph E. Roth
    Caravan Pictures-Joseph E. Roth
    Touchstone Pictures-Joseph E. Roth
    Miramax Films- Bob and Harvey Weinstein
    ABC-acquired in 1995 by Michael Eisner
    ESPN- Steven Bornstein
    Viacom- Sumner Redstone (born Murray Rothstein)
    Paramount Pictures-Sherry Lansing
    CBS- chief executive-Melvin A. Karmazin
    Simon & Schuster
    Showtime
    MTV
    Nickelodeon
    Universal Studios and Interscope Records-Edgar Bronfman, Jr.
    PolyGram-Edgar Bronfman, Jr.

    With two of the top four media conglomerates in the hands of Jews, and with Jews in executive charge of the remaining two, it is difficult to believe that such an overwhelming degree of control came about without a deliberate, concerted effort on their part.

    Fox Group-Peter Chernin, president and CEO
    Quote: Chernin- “I get to control movies seen all over the world. . . . What could be more fun?”
    20th Century Fox-Laura Ziskin
    Fox Entertainment-Peter Roth
    New York Post
    New World Entertainment-Ronald Perelman
    DreamWorks SKG-David Geffen,Jeffrey Katzenberg,Steven Spielberg
    NBC-David Sarnoff

    Over periods of several decades these networks were staffed from top to bottom with Jews, and the essential Jewishness of network television did not change when the networks were absorbed by other corporations

    http://www.stormfront.org/jewish/whorules.html

    go to this link and you will see how the jews control your media.

    this is just the media and cinema list, i hope i havent missed any.

    i could give you a list two times this size for corporate businesses.

    This is what i was talking about. If the jews leave America and go back to Israel, America will go back to the Stone Age!!!!

    You could do your own study and confirm this….Steve!

    i suggest you stop writing the bullcrap that you do!

  • anonymous
    7 July 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    You got to do a lot more reading, knowledge doent come through magazines and newspapers, man!. You just repeating what media tell you. You this big Democracy(by the people, for the people) freak. i suggest you read this book:
    “Best Democracy Money Can Buy” by Greg Palast.

    Maybe this book will open your eyes. Show you what kind of democracy exists in your country!

    do read the book!

  • anonymous
    7 July 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    very well said!

    dunno what steves got in his head.

    And steve about anti semetism- the Arabs are cousins of the jews and are hence also Semites. So if you talk bad about the wahabis you are being Anti Semetic!

    Remember! Anti semetism is a crime and is bad, but anti gentilicism is not! it doesnt matter if the jews call the Gentiles as “Goyim” meaning cows. They think that we are stupid and do not know what is happening in this world.

    maybe some people like Steve are Ignorant and so Arrogant that they refuse to accept it. But there are some gentiles(me!) in this world who know what is happening.

  • anonymous
    7 July 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Hitler was a practising Catholic Right up to the end and used his religion to justify his persecution of the Jews. Southern baptists used their religion to Justify their persecution of the blacks. Christians use their religion to justify persecution of the muslims, who use theirs to persecute Hindus; In Ireland protestants persecute catholics and catholics persecute protestants. all of which is against the specific teachings of all the so called great religions. Something tells me we have a common thread running through this.

  • anonymous
    7 July 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    Steve…
    i cant provide you the whole list as it is very large. i will however give you the following two links where you will find documented evidence of the companies, the people and the weapons involved! if you still dont believe, then only God can help you. if you still dont believe, then it only proves that your a victim of Propoganda and false news, and not me. Maybe you should start visiting a mosque, to help you clear your mind and get you closer to God!!!!!

  • anonymous
    7 July 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    Steve…
    i cant provide you the whole list as it is very large. i will however give you the following two links where you will find documented evidence of the companies, the people and the weapons involved!

    N.B: Please view these sites with an open mind!:)

    http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html
    http://www.laweekly.com/ink/printme.php?eid=43712

    Here is a small list if you dont have the time to visit the websites:

    1.HUGHES HELICOPTER

    (Was based in Culver City, California. The company is now called MD Helicopters, Inc., and is based in Mesa, Arizona, after being sold in 1984 to McDonnell Douglas.)

    1983 — Supplied Iraq with 60 civilian helicopters, eventually modified for military use. Sale approved by Reagan administration.

    2.MATRIX CHURCHILL CORP.

    (Formerly located in Cleveland, Ohio — company defunct)

    1988 to 1990 — Constructed in Iraq a glass-fiber production plant, which made missile rocket-motor casings. Plant built at Nassr State Establishment, was known as Project 3128. And with the company XYZ Options, Matrix Churchill constructed at Al Atheer, Iraq’s nuclear weapons design-and-research center, a $14 million plant used to produce high-precision tungsten carbide tools for Iraq’s nuclear program. The plant, financed by Italian banking giant Banca Nazionale del Lavoro (BNL), was completed in 1990, but later destroyed under first U.N. inspection program. Matrix Churchill, along with other U.S. and European firms, was part of a complicated Iraqi arms-procurement network, controlled by the Iraqi entity TECO or Techcorp, officially called the Technical Corps for Special Projects. TECO was a sub-unit of Iraq’s Ministry of Industry and Military Industrialization. TECO also ran Al-Arabi Trading Co., a front for Iraq’s biological-weapons program. Matrix Churchill also received a letter of credit for $81 million from BNL to supply machinery and other supplies to TECO and a letter of credit for $2,345,300 to sell precious metals to Nassr State Enterprises for Mechanical Industries, which procured equipment for Iraq’s missile program.

    these were just two small excerpts. please visit these sites for details.

    if you still dont believe, then only God can help you.

    if you still dont believe, then it only proves that your a victim of Propoganda and false news and how big a loser you really are, and not me.

    Maybe you should start visiting a mosque, to help you clear your mind and get you closer to God!!!!!

    Please remember that im not denying that the Soviets provided weapons. But what we are talking about is whether American companies with the help of the Government supplied weapons to Iraq or not!

  • anonymous
    8 July 2004

    Re: paranoid one

    Steve….
    stop branding evryones views/opinions as “conspiracy theories”, when you yourself spread propoganda. You speak without a string of proof!

    If you cant support what you say with evidence and proof, i suggest that you stop posting comments.

    Many people here, including me have had enough of the garbage that you talk about.

    Garbage like:

    1. When your government could not prove that there was a link between Iraq and Al qaeda, there you are saying, “no there was a link!”

    2. When your goernment did not produce the evidence that 911 was done by a group of 19 guys?, you expect us to believe you!

    i could go on and on, but thats enough for now.
    i hope you get the message.
    no offense brother, just trying to clean up the garbage in your head!
    dont blame you though!
    peace!

  • anonymous
    10 July 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    fuck all you muslim sand niggers

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    12 July 2004

    Re(6): Nick Berg

    Such racist sentiment should be beneath you.

    Steve

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    12 July 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    [quote]I don’t understand the arab mind set (fundamentalist). you fight for freedom but none of the people you fight for are free.[/quote]

    The Muslim fundamentalists, the Islamists, the Wahhabis, are not fighting for freedom. That is a popular myth. They fight to impose Wahhabi Islam on their victims.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    12 July 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    I don’t understand the arab mind set (fundamentalist). you fight for freedom but none of the people you fight for are free. they kill more muslims than than any other group has killed in history. arab countries have some of the poorest human rights records of any country, there people live in poverty. where is the fight for the honor of these people.

    maybe these groups should look at the things that they do to theie own people and ask themselves “is the blood of my people that I shead worth the honor of my brother that I am trying to protect?”

    at what point do you stop killing?

    another thing, if the fundamentalist want the US out of Irak, why are they doing everything to make us stay? If they would only leave the solders alone we could rebuild the country back to the way it was before the war and better then leave. don’t these people (Terrorist) see that the more you fight the US the longer they will stay?

  • anonymous
    16 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    It is not your place to decide that. We live in America so that we will have the freedom to chose what we want, just because I dont believe in the same thing that you do doesnt mean that you have to condemn me for it. I dont condemn you, believe what you want, if I am wrong in my religion and you are right then sorry for me, “allah” will deal with me, not you. I dont understand why you care so much about what we believe, you should worry about yourself, If i am wrong in my ways then when i die i will go to hell or whatever you believe happens after death, and you will go to heaven and we will not be together, that is what you want right? So why not let us live our happy lives not bothering one another? Muslims believe what they want and christians belive what they want no one bothers no one and everyone is happy? I love all people, I just hate some of the things that they do, I am not racist at all, I just dont understand why we all have to hate each other because we are what we are. I guess I am just young and do not understand, I do not wish to condemn anyone I just wish that everyone could get along and accept each other for what they are.

  • anonymous
    16 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    (Southern baptists used their religion to Justify their persecution of the blacks.) I guess that I dont understand this comment, I am a practicing Southern Baptist and we do not persecute blacks, in fact there are several Blacks that are members and REGULAR attendees. This is gereralized to the southerners/slaves mess. Like I said, I am Southern Baptist and I do not have the first problem at all with blacks, I also speak for the rest of the people in my church.

  • [deleted]0.13138600 1099323648.497
    24 July 2004

    Nick Berg

    Mahmood, (and friends)
    I found this site because I wanted to see the “Nick Berg video”. Yes, I do realize that it came out more than two months ago. hey, I’ve been busy. And my interest is not of gore-enjoyment origin. There is some question of it’s validity, and I’d like to see for myself.
    Let me explain the dept and length of my interest in middle eastern affairs.
    I grew up in suburban Atlanta- huge Arabic community. When I was a teenager, I had a friend from Iran. His name was Manoocher Karimi.
    His parents had sent him to the U.S. at age fifteen to avoid being put into the army in Iran. When we became eighteen and graduated, his visa was not renewable, so, I married him. Yikes! I was a gutzy girl. But he could have been executed.
    I have understood the severity of middle eastern society since then. Therefore, my interest has continued over the years. Infact, I have been paying very close attention for much longer than most Americans.
    Mahmood, thank you for the site. I wish you and your family well.
    I will continue to look in.
    Sincerely,
    Patti

  • anonymous
    24 July 2004

    Re: Nick Berg

    i meant the literal meaning of the word.”one who submits his will to God”. “A servant of God”!!!!! Sorry if you got the wrong meaning. Jesus never claimed divinity, thats what i was trying to prove!!

  • anonymous
    25 July 2004

    http://www.muslim-refusenik.com

    I am a muslim, and know I know what a muslim should do to reform the Middle East. Please check out http://www.muslim-refusenik.com

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    27 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg- Conversions to Islam Quadriples after 911

    If Islam is without contradictions, why then do Muslims celebrate their rejection of worship of stones during jahilliya in favor of Mohammed’s revelation, but a central tenet of Islam is to make a pilgrimmage to Mecca to kiss the Black Stone in the Kaaba?

    I don’t know where you think all this quadrupling of conversions to Islam is happenning. They are certainly not happenning in America or the rest of the civilized world. The Sep 11 attacks have certainly increased interest in Islam just as Nazi atrocities increased interest in Hitler’s “Mein Kampf.” If America were overrun with poisonous snakes, we would become very interested in poisonous snakes, though not because we wanted to become one.

    If anything, the more I learn about the practice of Islam, especially the Wahhabi brand, the more I am repulsed by its barbarism, ignorance, and thirst for innocent blood. Sep 11 is a shameful event by Muslims, not a proud one as you assume. You should be ashamed of such evil done in the name of your religion.

    Steve

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    27 July 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    [quote]And steve about anti semetism- the Arabs are cousins of the jews and are hence also Semites. So if you talk bad about the wahabis you are being Anti Semetic! [/quote]

    Dishonest word games.

    Steve

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    27 July 2004

    Re(1): paranoid one

    [quote]Many people here, including me have had enough of the garbage that you talk about.Garbage like:
    1. When your government could not prove that there was a link between Iraq and Al qaeda, there you are saying, “no there was a link!” [/quote]

    There is quite a bit of proof of complicity between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Iraq sent representatives to Al Qaeda in the Sudan, a fact that was reported at the time in both the Arab and Western press. Iraq. They had many ad hoc exchanges and communications which are widely reported in the press. The World Trade Center bombers, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Yousef, got their fake Kuwaiti identities from Iraqi intelligence. There is a lot more. However, you have to read current events to learn it.

    [quote]2. When your goernment did not produce the evidence that 911 was done by a group of 19 guys?, you expect us to believe you! [/quote]

    The identities of the 19 hijackers were known by the end of the day on Sep 11. In most cases, the flight attendants phoned in the seat numbers of the hijackers to flight ops. In some other cases, other passengers on the doomed flights identified them. In Atta’s case, his suitcase never made it on the plane and was opened to reveal a checklist of preparations for the suicide jets. Many of the Saudis who provided the muscle left behind farewell notes and suicide videos which have been played everywhere on TV. Ziad Jarrah, the pilot of UA 93, made a farewell phone call inflight to his girlfriend in Germany and wrote her a farewell letter. The voices of most of the Arab pilots are recorded when they mistakenly keyed the radio to make their threats. The cockpit tape of UA 93 survived to preserve the chatter of the Arabs flying the jet.

    The evidence is overwhelming. Why are you ignorant of it?

    Not impressed with your dishonest arguments,

    Steve

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    27 July 2004

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    I disagree. Predators avoid confrontation and seek out victims who do not resist.

    Let me point out that I have not threatened to cut the head off anyone, but merely point out that the best way to deal with such threats is to eliminate the source. That is a very reasonable and sound approach. Your attempt to make me the aggressor in this exchange is wrong.

    What I am doing is rectifying a misconception that many fundamentalist Muslims have of America due to ignorance of our culture: That we will collapse with a hard blow or two. We don’t. Such attacks elicit furious and lethal responses, not acquiesence.

    Tantor

  • [deleted]0.13138600 1099323648.497
    28 July 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    “Anonymous”, you hide behind a vail and you espouse hate. You are are no better or any different than which you hate. Strength is in kindness. You are weak. That is why you hate, because you are weak.
    P.

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    30 July 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    You are misstating my position. The Dalai Lama is not responsible for the Chinese occupation of his country. The Chinese are.

    What I am saying is that while the Dalai Lama’s pacifist philosophy is admirable in everyday life, it is ineffective in defeating evil on a large scale. Pacifists are no match for evil on an industrial scale.

    I disagree that evil does not exist in a religious framework. Certainly the thuggee religion of old India was evil when they killed travellers as part of their religion. The Catholic Church was evil when they killed heretics during the Inquisition. The Wahhabis are evil when they preach the destruction of all other religions and philosophies then act on it with murderous enthusiasm.

    Steve

    Steve

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    30 July 2004

    Re(5): Nick Berg

    Killing people because of their religion is hardly a mark of civilization.

    Steve

  • anonymous
    8 August 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    this war sucks, im on no ones side. deepest sympathy to nick bergs family.CAN’T YOU JUST FUCKING WORK SOMETHING OUT, AMERICA’S ARMY FEEL THEY HAVE TO BOMB EVERYTHING. OVER RUN BY FUCKIN FREEMASONS. FUCKING FREEMASONS. FREEMASONS ARE FUCKIN RESPONSABLE FOR THE ASSASINATION OF J.F.K. IM NOT BAGGIN AMERICA OUT, AS I SAID IM ON NO ONES SIDE, ALL I WANT IS THIS WAR TO END BECAUSE ITS FUCKIN BULLSHIT, IF YOU ALL HAVE BELEIFS, WOULDN’T YOU THINK YOUR GOD IS DISAPROVING THIS WAR? WAR IS NEVER THE ANSWER…..NEVER.

  • anonymous
    8 August 2004

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    this war sucks, im on no ones side. deepest sympathy to nick bergs family.CAN’T YOU JUST FUCKING WORK SOMETHING OUT, AMERICA’S ARMY FEEL THEY HAVE TO BOMB EVERYTHING. OVER RUN BY FUCKIN FREEMASONS. FUCKING FREEMASONS. FREEMASONS ARE FUCKIN RESPONSABLE FOR THE ASSASINATION OF J.F.K. IM NOT BAGGIN AMERICA OUT, AS I SAID IM ON NO ONES SIDE, ALL I WANT IS THIS WAR TO END BECAUSE ITS FUCKIN BULLSHIT, IF YOU ALL HAVE BELEIFS, WOULDN’T YOU THINK YOUR GOD IS DISAPROVING THIS WAR? WAR IS NEVER THE ANSWER…..NEVER.

  • anonymous
    31 August 2004

    Nick Berg

    un seul mot a dire sur ce sujet HORIBLE comment un être humain peut-il faire une choses aussi barbare a une autre être comme ce dernier. La décapitation n’a pas sa place sur la surface de la terre, a mon avis c’est un mode de frustration.

  • anonymous
    26 September 2004

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    you are monkey poop. alah will send you to the underworld.

  • anonymous
    16 December 2004

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Beliefs, Opinions and convictions keep the mind in a shoebox among God’s infinite universe. If you truly want to know God, then go beyond your fear and allow your mind to exit the box of beliefs, opinions and convictions.

  • anonymous
    8 March 2005

    Re: Nick Berg

    HI Warren, I am an Arab and a muslim, my name is Nasser and I live in Bahrain. I abhorre and condemn anyone who commits murder in the name of Islam to fullfill some extreme personal agenda.I detest the manner in which all of us are tarred by the same brush as those vile,repugnant creatures that would do us disservice by calling themselves Muslim, and then decapitating an innocent or combatant for that matter.In Bahrain we certainly do [b]not[/b] condone the random murder of women and children or suicide bombing or anything else that takes life. Here there is a forum for debate, allbeit in it’s early stages, in the form of an elected parliament and there are voices of digust and condemnation at what is being done in the name of Islam. To those voices the Royal family had added considerable weight, such that anyone who follows our news and history should be under no illusions as to where we stand.Having said that, I do agree that more could be done. Education is the key, and educational reforms in this country are being spearheaded by the Crown Prince no less, so it’s a major priority for us. The beheadings in Saudi and Iraq.As a way of ridding ones country of so called invaders, it’s highly inefficient. Yes it’s terrifying, but that’s the point. Minorities who by their definition have little public support allways resort to shock tactics to get heard. Consider the headline “U.S.Marine shot dead in Iraq” one is almost accepting of the fate of that individual in that he, as a soldier, was killed in a war zone.But if you read”U.S. Marine beheaded in Iraq” the attention required by the deviant and misguided sub-humans who commited the act, is duly given.As to nuclear weapons. The reason the US is engaged,at such cost, in this part of the world is not to spread the democratic word, nor is it to free repressed masses, it is to ensure the safe and steady supply of the fuel vital to your nations social and economic health.Fine,no objection here. You buy,we sell. The use of nuclear weapons would seriously risk contaminating the worlds oil reserves. I can’t remember what the half life of enriched uranium is, but it’s certainly many decades, and as i’m sure you know uranium enriched oil is useless to us, and more importantly useless to you. Warren,we are not barbarians. For the most part we live each day with the same aspirations and dreams as you. Try to own a house one day, try to get away once a year with the kids for a holiday,try to get on with the mother in law (in spite of that fact that she should be committed to Salmainya Psychiatric hospital for evaluation)try not to fight with my siblings, try to get on with my dad better, try to have more patience with mum and her prattling,try to build bridges with foreigners,try to foster understanding and try to erradicate the fear that germinates within ignorance.

  • mahmood
    8 March 2005

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    thank you Nasser. well said.

  • 7alaylia
    8 March 2005

    Nick Berg

    Good post Nasser. I have had the opportunity to meet the father of Nick Berg here in the DC area. He was attending an anti-war rally where he gave a speech. My condolences go out to him and his family. Many people faced with similiar circumstances would be given over to hatred, not this man.

  • anonymous
    8 March 2005

    Nick Berg

    I dislike all the “Anonymous comments here, My name is Warren and I’m an american living in Rochester NY. My problem with the majority of Muslims is that they are not Screaming loudly enough about all the Brutality being done in the name of your so called God Allah! You people seem to be stuck in the stone age back when Murder was a way of life, and Females were considered a lower life form. Your “Extremists” seem to think cutting off heads and blowing up innocent woman and children with their crazy Homicide bombers is an acceptable form of behaviour. This may have been accepted 2000 years ago, but the rest of the world has evolved over the past 20 centuries or so. It appears that Muslims have no problem with their families being blown apart by other Muslims. In a civilized society such as we have in the US, this form of behaviour is not tolerated and we hunt down the criminals and punish them. If the mainstream Muslim society does not learn how to behave and rein in their radical faction, you may find yourselves basking in the afterglow of a Nuclear Holocaust. No one has ever attacked the US on our home ground and lived to tell about it. Just ask the Japanese, this is only the beginning. We are a patient country, but time is running out for you barbarians.

    “It’s God’s job to Judge Terrorists, It’s our job to arrange the Meeting!”
    U.S. Marines

    Just my 2 cents worth,

    Warren

  • anonymous
    20 March 2005

    Nick Berg

    Hello Nasser, this is from Warren. You wrote a very good letter and I compliment you on it.

    It’s very hard for me to understand the actions of people like the cowards who hide behind masks and commit acts like the beheading of other humans. I can’t think of people like them being even remotely human. I have to believe that most of us have the same wants and needs, we all love our children, wives and families. We all want to live a safe and productive life and see a better future for our children than we have had. From reading your letter it’s plain for me to see that you and I are very much alike in our viewpoints on life. I have never lived in your part of the world and the only way I have of understanding what’s going on over there is from the information I hear from the media, and also from Military friends who have been and are currently over there. I do know though that actions such as what has been going on will not be tolerated over here in the US and if push comes to shove, we will not be the biggest losers, we will be forced to do whatever is necessary to protect our way of life.

    I hear it said by many that our countries only interest is in mideastern oil, not in protecting the repressed masses. I don’t think that is completely true. Our country has a long history of protecting freedom both at home and in other countries, not always as a completely selfish act, but to a great extent it has been. I don’t believe any country in history has been as generous as the united states has been or as willing to pitch in to help people in need. Unfortunatly, politics gets in the way of the good intentions of our people sometimes.

    Look at the recient Tsunami Disaster and see who contributed what to the asian relief. We were criticized for being Stingy because we initially pledged only 30 million dollars to the relief, but the amount of money given by private citizens and corporate donations was huge. I believe the disaster affected Muslims to a great extent, and from the information I read on the internet it appears that some of the richest oil producing countries were the ones who were really quite stingy. I probably don’t understand it all, but I don’t believe that we jumped right in to help because we were looking to get oil for our efforts.

    We have had our dark times. Slavery was once legal here, and we had a tragic civil war, but we have evolved and changed our ways over time. There was also a time when Women didn’t have the same rights as our men did, but those days are past also. I can’t understand why a society would treat their woman (who give birth to our children) as a lower life form than its men. It seems from what I’ve read that that is still the case in many areas. Take for example how the Taliban mistreated their woman not even allowing them an education or proper access to medical care for so called religious reasons. After the 911 attack here we invaded Afganistan and drove them out. I believe conditions there are much better now than under the Taliban regime. I’m not sure if we had any selfish motive for going over there except for going after El quida and Bin Laden.

    I want to admit that you probably have a much better understanding of the politics of your country, and I welcome the opportunity of you and others educating me some.

    Regards,
    Warren

  • [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
    21 March 2005

    Re: Nick Berg

    On the contrary, Malik, Berg’s father, an ANSWER sympathizer if not a member, is quite given over to hatred of President Bush. He has grotesquely used his son’s death to castigate Bush while sickeningly attributing human feelings to his son’s decapitators before they slaughtered him. He is a sad and twisted man who can’t tell good from evil.

    Steve

  • 7alaylia
    21 March 2005

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    Steve writes “On the contrary, Malik, Berg’s father, an ANSWER sympathizer if not a member, is quite given over to hatred of President Bush. He has grotesquely used his son’s death to castigate Bush while sickeningly attributing human feelings to his son’s decapitators before they slaughtered him. He is a sad and twisted man who can’t tell good from evil.

    Steve”

    Your compassion for a man who lost his son is astounding!

    The start of this thread included these words from Mahmood:

    “My heartfelt condolences to Nick’s family and friends. Although this could never be consolation to his family, if there is a definition of martyr, then surely Nick is one. ”

    I agree with Mahmood. I think it is in poor taste for you to attack this man’s father.

    [Modified by: Malik (celticview) on March 21, 2005 10:29 AM]

  • anonymous
    21 March 2005

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    Malik,

    You should read the nonsense this guy spouted after his son’s death. He had no condemnation for his son’s killers but plenty for George Bush, who never harmed a hair on his son’s head. He’s using his son’s corpse as a platform to condemn America with the venomous rhetoric of the ANSWER socialists. It is shameful and wrong-headed.

    Here is a sample of his diatribe: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0%2C2763%2C1221644%2C00.html

    While I’m sorry for any father losing his son, using that son’s death to make a political argument does not make him immune to rebuttal or critique.

    Steve

  • 7alaylia
    21 March 2005

    Re(3): Nick Berg

    Posted “You should read the nonsense this guy spouted after his son’s death. He had no condemnation for his son’s killers but plenty for George Bush, who never harmed a hair on his son’s head. He’s using his son’s corpse as a platform to condemn America with the venomous rhetoric of the ANSWER socialists. It is shameful and wrong-headed. ”
    I have read some of the stuff he has said, and I have met him and heard him speak. He has condemned his son’s killers, but he holds his government responsible for the adventure in Iraq. Over 1,500 Americans have died in a war based on false assumptions, lies, and alterior motives. The man has a right to be upset. Upset at the people who killed his son and at the people who sent Americans there in the first place. He is “using his son’s corpse”? A pretty sick sentiment Steve. So I suppose if your son died and you spoke out in favour of the war you would be “using your son’s corpse”? What about the dozens of familys of slain servicemen and women who have formed and joined anti-war groups? Are they all “using their children’s corpses”? What about the pro war sentiments of families of slain soldiers? Are they “using their children’s corpses”? Or do pro war sentiments, one could safely say the majority in families with lost family members, get judged on a different scale?
    I wonder if you think Michael Walsh, host of “Americans Most Wanted” is “using his son’s corpse? Honestly Steve, such a statement is pretty low.
    Odd that you dont level such attacks at members of our current government who consistantly use the sacrifrices our soldiers have made in Iraq to push through their political agenda.

  • anonymous
    4 May 2005

    Re(4): Nick Berg

    just remeber mate, that the so called westerners who are afraid of force as you put it, are very restrained in what they can do – rules of engagement, these people that killed nick burg are cowardly and hide behind veils – why? if america were to respond in force believe me brother you would not be around to tell the story. when will you people realise, the rest of the world doesn’t care about your cause – everyone in life has there own problems, so why take innocent lives, why was the beheading not of a high ranking military officer? the whole middle east is just one giant pimple on the ass of society, you fight amongst yourselves, and people lend assistance, you fight them, no one understands it, i think the best way to deal with the problems you have, is to build a giant wall around it, no one comes in or out, you’ll probably kill yourself off within a year. life goes on my friend, and nick burg will have his day – there is a saying, no honor amongst thieves, the people who carried out this act are a disgrace to the human species, get the fucking rags off your face, and we’ll see who has the most honor, you people pick on the innocent but are the first to cry for help. what happened to nick burg was a disgrace, he wasn’t even given a fighting chance, instead slaughtered. we’ll see whose honor shows through, when we are sweeping your ashes.
    pissed off – australia

  • anonymous
    19 May 2005

    Re(7): Nick Berg

    well this is jsut for everyone that posts negative things about muslims.
    Muslims are jsut people that belong to a certain religion, they are not all terrorists. The wrld should learn to get along with eachother because afterall we are all humans living upon the same earth, we are not equal nor supperior to eachother, we are merely human and i only ask for people to open their eyes and see both sides of the story, then merge the two into your own veiw.

  • anonymous
    25 August 2005

    to anonymous

    one on five truly glorifies allah doesent it? one man against five armed men. Not MUSLIMS, but TERRORISTS. Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddust, all should be sickend by the acts of those dogs who are not fit to harbor the fleas of camels!

  • anonymous
    7 October 2005

    Nick Berg

    we have a oil man president and they have oil.if anyone has oil bush has democracy for sale

  • anonymous
    24 January 2006

    Re(1): Nick Berg

    ALLAH IS NOT GREAT;i CANNOT BELIEVE THAT GOD ;OUR “ALL OF US”GOD ;REGARDLESS OF DENOMINATION; CAN ACCEPT THIS AS VICTORIOUS ALLABANSE IN HIS NAME .HE WOULD CALL IT MORTAL SIN AND A ABOMINATION OF SUB HUMAN BEHAVIOR. ALSO SUICIDE IS A MORTAL SIN.MOSLINS BELIEVE IN ANGEL GABRIEL AND JESUS AND THEY ALL RESPOND TO THE HOLY OF HOLIES SO HE IS WHOLE IN HIS ENTIRE SIGNIFICANCE.HE IS EVERYBODIES GOD AND THEREFORE HE CANNOT ACCEPT THAT AS GLORIFICATION .SATAN CAN BUT NOT HIM. IF GOD ACCEPTS THAT FROM THIS COWARD ANIMALS THEN I CANNOT BELIEVE IN GOD AND THEREFORE I HAVE BEEN LIED TO ALL MY LIFE AS TO WHAT GOD OUGHT TO BE ;GOOD,TOLERANTS LOVES ALL HIS CHILDREN AND IS NOT QUICK TO ANGER.ALWAYS FORGIVING. THIS ANIMALS ARE JUST USING GOD TO COVER THEIR CRIMINAL WAYS AND SAY THAT GOD SAYS IS OK TO KILL AND IS GOOD THAT THEY DO. I PISS ON ANY SO CALLED MOSLIN THAT THINKS LIKE THAT ABOUT GOD. MOSLIN RELIGION IS ONE OF THE MOST TOLERANT AND RESPECTFUL BUT DEFINITELY NOT ANIMALS NORE KILLERS. GO LIE TO SOMEONE ELSE WITH A HALF BRAIN !!!!

  • anonymous
    7 February 2006

    Re(2): Nick Berg

    watching another man’s head being cut off will only promiss more killing in revenge, no matter what the provocation, actions do speed louder than words, but video taped beheadings, only fuel more death on all sides of the issue,,,… I love my life in America and I love all those who breath the same oxygen I do.

  • Patrick
    11 September 2007

    Mahmood… Your site is fabulous. Thank you for some of the deeply insightful things you have to say and especially the manner in which you say it.

    Patrick South Africa.

Previous
Our matriarch has gone…