Most definitely, if you read the majority of what has already been written and analysed to death about Hamas winning the elections in Palestine. Some have even suggested that we (the Arabs) are not ready for democracy, simply because Islamists might (read most definitely) get to power.
Hogwash. Democracy as an ideal is rule by the people either directly or through elected representatives. So now that Hamas, who are considered by Israel and the rest of the (non-Islamic) world as terrorists have chosen to enter the political game that the definition of democracy must change? Or that a whole country is blackmailed in order for it to “reconsider” its chosen representatives? The US, that bastion and modern guardian and marketer of democracy is even indulging in this blackmail, and I have no doubt that the wells will start drying up and we will see hundreds, possibly thousands of Palestinians suffer, and children will die, just to prove a point and to make Palestinians “reconsider” their choices.
So does democracy mean that you can go to the polls and elect representatives but only if your choice agrees with “sanctioned” individuals and parties? Of course not. People should now shut up. Completely. No one has the right to tell a legally elected government that they should not govern. I don’t care if Hamas was a terrorist organisation or as peaceful as a dove. Its people chose it unanimously for various reasons, probably most important of which is that they have been disillusioned with previous parties and governments. Regardless; the deed is done and the people have spoken.
Hamas now must re-evaluate itself. They have been absolutely stupid in using that politically inappropriate word; you know the one: “never”. Now – as we say in Arabic – they have to put their foot on their head and take that back. If they want to be reckoned with on the world stage, then they must reconsider their various positions: recognise Israel’s right to exist, rescind all violence, and agree that the way to salvation is not the gun, but sitting at a table negotiating the end of hostilities and spending their time and energy by serving their people, rather than enticing them to blow themselves and others up.
It is an historic moment to be sure, and it reminds me of that famous speech in the UN by Yasser Arafat all those years ago: the olive branch, or the gun.
Which will Hamas choose now?
Comments
Is democracy distastful?
I agree with you, that it’s not up to the governments of other countries to judge, if the palestinian people did elect the “right” or the “wrong” representatives. It’s their country, it’s their election, so they can elect whoever they want to elect. I wouldn’t even care, if they’d elect Mickey Mouse for president.
But on the other hand the EU and the US have every right to freeze their funds for the Palestinians, if high ranking Hamas activists like Chaled Meschaal or Ismail Hanijeh immedietely after the elections are already talking about recruiting their own army and wiping Israel off the map. Last year the EU gave over 280 Million EU to the palestinian government, and I guess they wouldn’t be very happy to see some dimwits using this money to start another war down there.
Is democracy distastful?
I agree with the above. Those people have chosen, and they have every right to do so, and more power to them. However, the people of the USA also chose and their representatives passed a law that no US funds can go to anyone on the Terrorist List. We would not expect our President to defy that law. This may actually be a good thing for Hamas. Living on charity, especially from the Great Satan, cannot be honorable in the eyes of Allah. Perhaps he will smile on them more now.
Is democracy distastful?
It’s a bit more complicated than you suggest, Mahmood. You’re right that other countries cannot overrule the democratic choice of a country, but they can certainly decide that they no longer wish to donate aid to that country, or to assist it diplomatically etc. In short, they can respond quite simply that “you have every right to your choice of government, and we have every right to choose not to assist it, trade with it or deal with it”.
And democracy is not a perfect system in any case. Hitler was democratically elected, despite it being patently obvious that once elected he intended discarding democracy itself. What should a democracy do if voters elect a party that has, as part of its agenda, the destruction of democracy itself? I’m not saying that Hamas has such an agenda, but you see the problems that can arise.
Is democracy distastful?
Thank you for opening this important topic with your insightful comments Mahmood.
I agree with you regarding the right of the Palestinian people to elect a government of their choice, but don’t agree with your characterization of the likely diplomatic responses from the US and EU. If Hamas really does conduct themselves in goverment as their history and public statements suggest, then there will of course be diplomatic and foreign policy consequences, as suggested by previous posters.
I don’t know what the long term consequences of the Hamas victory will be. Perhaps the most hopeful view is that the responsibility of governing may change Hamas considerably… but I doubt it. A larger danger may be that the Palestinians will become disillusioned with them, but find it impossible to dislodge them. Democracy may not last with Hamas in charge.
An interesting, directly related topic is why Hamas was elected. The URL below leads to a lengthy article about the legacy of Yasir Arafat from the September issue of The Atlantic Monthly, an American monthly journal that I admire for its range and depth of coverage. Agree or not with the conclusions of the author, his case is carefully and responsibly articulated:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200509/samuels
Palestinians were clearly rejecting Fatah and its culture of corruption at least as much as they were supporting Hamas. I can only hope that Palestinians will be able to continue with fair elections of their leaders and that those men and women will represent their interests effectively and responsibly.
Jared in NYC
Is democracy distastful?
I wonder how much of our taxpayer money that was sent to Palestine now sits in Arafats Swiss accounts? I would feel better if the money actually DID go to the people, but I would bet that most of it gets put into secret accounts, or to pay off homocide bombers families.
Is democracy distastful?
Mahmood, I certainly support the right of Palestinians to elect whoever they choose. Hitler was also elected in free and fair elections… well, except for the thuggery of the brownshirts… but still, he won because he was the most popular candidate.
The problem with Hamas (as far as the great satan is concerned) is that the US has formally declared Hamas to be a terror group. We’re at WAR with terror groups. We certainly cannot continue to support Palestians when we consider tehir elected leadership to be terrorists. Can we? Should we?
Lebanon will face the same problem if Hezbollah ever becomes the dominant political faction. Hezbollah is an enemy to the United States. If Hezbollah runs Lebanon, Lebanon is an enemy of the United States. Democratically elected or not. It IS possible to have democratically elected enemies.
I’d venture a guess that if there were free and fair elections in every country in the ME tomorrow, they would all elect governments that were overtly hostile to the US.
Egypt would certainly elect the MB. One difference between teh MB and hamas, is that the US does not consider the MB to be a terrorist group. In other worsd, the MB (until proven otherwise) would be considered an enemy (only) politically, not an actual enemy in deeds.
I’m actually hopeful about the election of Hamas. It’s a change from the past, and the past hasn’t worked. They may be able to do something. But, they’ll have to do it without the US. That’s not blackmail, it’s simple fact. We’ve been throwing people in jail for running charities that fund Hamas (here in teh US) for the last few years. Now the US government is going to fund a terrorist group? And what about all the people got got sent to prison for doing teh same thing!?
Not gonna happen.
Is democracy distastful?
The money donated by the EU and the US to the Palestinians Authority is not for Hamas … and for sure was not supposed to be for Fateh!.. It was given to support the Palestinian “Government” which is selected in a very democratic way by the Palestinian people to manage life in the land of the Palestinian Authority!
So now when EU & the US start mumbling about stopping their donations.. then
first.. they are giving up their earlier obligations they voluntarily took ..
second .. if this is the start .. why shall Hamas accept going ahead with the agreements Fatah signed with Israel? They can claim that they were not even part of the Palestinian Parliament when those agreements were signed!.
Third .. The international donations shall be going to the Palestinian Govet. which will be lead by Hamas but with strong international monitoring donating countries can keep close eye on where the money is spent and ensure that it goes directly into projects that serve the Palestinians !
Fourth .. worse to worse .. give them a trial period .. test them .. and don’t jump into conclusions !! We are talking about politics here where everything can change when the needed circumstances exist
Otherwise, all these threats will sound like punishing the Palestinians for their choices .. and send the Very wrong message to the Palestinians and the rest of Arabs!
When I hear such stories I just wonder .. won’t it be better for the US to get in and select our governments in the Arab world (and then do the same for the rest of the world specially in South America) and forget about the (joke) democracy they breach day and night!!!
Ahmed
Is democracy distastful?
The palestinian people have spoken, and their voices must be heard in order for there to be any diplomatic progress. Hamas has a lot of distorted views, such as the destruction of Israel, which it must reconsider in order for it to enter the political stream and maintain peace with neighboring Israel. The same goes for Israel. Many Israeli politicians favor the destruction of Palestine, and even though this hasn’t been brought to media attention in the U.S., it is obvious that Israel’s actions in many circumstances reveal a will to fight rather than sit and negotiate. Thus, both sides have to start talking, and stop killing.. But, I, like Mahmood, do not have hope that this will happen at any time soon, especially since the U.S. and Israel are already imposing stringent policies on Palestine. Our only hope is that both sides have learnt from history that the only means for peace is negotiations and not violence!
Ahmed
Is democracy distastful?
M…I think democracy is certainly more than majority rule. Democracy also involves minority rights, human rights, etc. Certainly it is NOT democratic to believe in rule by the gun.
I’m not sure the Ps are a real democracy since there is no civil society structures to back it up yet.
thinker
Re: Is democracy distastful?
Ahmed, just because the EU and the US have contributed a huge amount of aid to Palestine in the past doesn’t mean that we have to keep doing so forever. What is done voluntarily can also be stopped voluntarily. It’s not an “obligation” to donate money to Palestine; it’s an act of generosity. If Hamas pursues a hostile course of action against Israel then, obviously enough, Western countries are not going to sponsor that through donations.
Is democracy distastful?
Mahmood,
I respect your opinions and value your observations on the Middle East, but I must disagree with you on this point. The Palestinians certainly have a right to elect Hamas – I’m not challenging that at all. But as other commenters have pointed out, does the United States government have an obligation to give money to the P.A. if it is run by Hamas? I don’t think so. In general, we don’t have an obligation to give money to any other country – we do it because we want to for various reasons, some are good, some are bad. I have supported the U.S. giving money to the P.A. with the hope that the money will be used for the good of the Palestinian people – not to line the pockets of the more venal members of the P.A., where it has often gone. But I don’t support the U.S. giving money to the P.A. if it’s run by Hamas, because Hamas is sworn to the destruction of the state of Israel. If Hamas changes its goals and decides to work for a Palestinian state living peacefully beside Israel, then I would be in favor of the U.S. continuing to give money to the P.A.
I understand that many Palestinians probably voted for Hamas because of the corruption and incompetence of the Fateh-led P.A. If Hamas just stood for clean government, good social services, and Shari’a law – then I still wouldn’t oppose U.S. government aid (even though I’m certainly not thrilled by the idea of Shari’a law). If you see some real hopeful signs that Hamas is going to change its views on Israel, I would be happy to see them – but I don’t see them now.
Is democracy distastful?
تم تشبية الانتخابات الÙ?لسطينية بالزلازال التى عصÙ? بالمنطقة وخصوصا للسياسية الامريكية Ù?Ù‰ الشرق الاوسط Ù?Ù?Ù‰ اعتقادى المتواضع انالسياسية الامريكية ستكونامام امتØÂÂانصعب جدا جدا وخصوصا مصدقيتها ودعواتها ومشاريعها المتكررة Ù?Ù‰ المنطقة تØÂÂت عناوينمختلÙ?Ø© باسم الاصلاØÂÂات والديمقراطية Ù?هل يوجد شخص يشك Ù?Ù‰ نزاهة الانتخابات الÙ?لسطينية وخصوصا ادا علمنا انمعهد التنمية الديمقراطية الامريكى برائسة جيمى كارتر الرئيس الاسبق لامريكا اشرÙ?ت عليها وانالرئيس الامريكى جورج بوش اشاد بها ولنعلم دائما انالشعوب تØÂÂدد خياراتها منخلال صنادق الانتخابات ونوع الØÂÂكومة التى تريدها وهناك تجارب مماثلة كثيرة منها على سبيل المثال لا الØÂÂصر ايرانوالعراق وتشيلى وبوليÙ?يا وغيرها Ù?هل ستØÂÂترم امريكا واوروبا اختيار الشعب الÙ?لسطينى ام لا ØŸ هدا هوالسوال الصعب والامتØÂÂانالقادم لهذة الدول الراعية للاصلاØÂÂات والديمقراطية
مريم Ù…ØÂÂمد ابراهيم
مملكة البØÂÂريÙâ€Â
Is democracy distastful?
The real test here is up to Hamas. Because of their previous and continuous (read their own reactions to suggestions of change) commitment to the destruction of Israel, it will be up to them to PROVE that they want peace and will not attack Israel. After they have proven themselves, not just mouthed words, the American gifts might be appropriate. If the Palestinian peoples want to build a nation, they, who elected Hamas, must communicate with Hamas that they expect them to honor a peaceful co-existence with Israel. It continues to be up to them.
Glad they can express themselves – let’s see what the ‘say’.
Is democracy distastful?
The EU cut Austria off when the Austrians elected someone the rest of the EU didn’t like.
So there is precedent.
Is democracy distastful?
I’m sure Suha Arafat will be willing to take up where the US leave’s off when they cut funding to Palestine. I’m sure she can do without some of her 11.5 Million that sits in her swiss bank account. And Fatah wonders why the people are sick of corruption?
You all must know how much the average Palestinian makes per year– no wonder the handouts, schools and propaganda that Hamas constantly feeds the ignorant masses work. It’s almost like the GDN!
Iran now has a green light to meddle.
Is democracy distastful?
You said:
[quote]The US, that bastion and modern guardian and marketer of democracy is even indulging in this blackmail, and I have no doubt that the wells will start drying up and we will see hundreds, possibly thousands of Palestinians suffer, and children will die, just to prove a point and to make Palestinians “reconsider” their choices.[/quote]
You think EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL will work in this situation? I have seen the Palestinians send retarded kids into Israel to blow themselves up. I have seen the wonderful family photos of the babies all dressed up in their cute little bomb belt outfits. The reports of the special “boom boom” camps they send their kids to. The damned guns are bigger than the kids!
These kids should be taken and their parents locked away but here they are being used as a bargaining chip YET AGAIN!! Shame on all and quit telling me how I should be spending my money.
Is democracy distastful?
Interesting read. Yasser Arafat is gone with his party too it seems.
Salam–[x]
nezitic.blogspot.com
Is democracy distastful?
Hamas is imposing Sahri’a Law.
[quote]JERUSALEM  The incoming Hamas government will move quickly to make Islamic sharia “a source� of law in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and will overhaul the Palestinian education system to separate boys and girls and introduce a more Islamic curriculum, a senior official in the movement said yesterday.
(…)
Mr. Abu Teir, who was No. 2 on the Hamas list of candidates for Wednesday’s election, said introducing sharia  a controversial moral and legal code based on the Koran  would be the first act of the new Hamas-controlled Palestinian Legislative Council.[/quote]
http://tinyurl.com/9u8pj
lovely
Is democracy distastful?
It’s not just about keeping “things in line”. Personally I have a strong objection to the taxes I pay being used to “donate” to a government that engages in terrorism and intends introducing Shariah. People can do what they like in their own countries, but don’t expect me and my countrymen to pay for it when it breaches international human rights legislation.
Re: Is democracy distastful?
Yes, and “donation” sounds so much better than “bribe.”
Steve
Is democracy distastful?
The short term situation in Palestine doesn’t look very optimistic. Hamas and Fateh will probably spend some time killing each other, until the Palestinians start asking the real questions – like what does it take to get jobs, security and a stable economy. Now that they’ve got a government that’s supposed to serve them, it’s going to be a lot harder to blame the “Joooos� for their problems. Ideally, that might force the emergence of a third political party, one that’s dedicated to Palestinian development instead of thuggery and violence. Terrorism has been approved of for so long that it’s become entrenched. The Gaza Strip has become the Wild West because the militants won’t put down their guns.
The US and the EU aren’t obligated to dish out aid to governments they don’t like. However, they shouldn’t have been giving aid to the Palestinian Authority before, when it was known to be a cesspool of corruption, crime and gangsterism.
Aliandra
Is democracy distastful?
Well, I’m late to the party but I might as well jump on the pile:
It’s wonderful to see the Palestinians have elections but we Americans have no obligation to subsidize the winner, especially when the winner is a terrorist organization that would use that money to blow up civilians in a religious war.
The money we paid to Palestine was wasted. Only 15% of it made it to the people. The rest went into Arafat’s pockets and those of his cronies. All those billions and Arafat did not build a single hospital for his people. I doubt Hamas will improve on that.
You might also consider that such subsidies maintain Palestine in a state of political immaturity. They get paid whatever damned silly thing they do to run their government into the ground. If their subsidies were cut, they would have to focus on building the infrastructure to support business to create wealth. Terror scares investors, as you have noted long ago, Mahmood. Faced with the hard choices to make a living, the Palestinians would be forced to make rational choices that improved their lot. They might even build a nation, instead of slum run by gangsters.
Steve
Is democracy distastful?
It is too soon to know exactly what will happen.For the first time Hammas is going to have to pull finger…I think we will see some pragmatism prevail on all sides in this ongoing farce.But as long as we have a situation where one side “celebrates” death and the others are seriously “death averse”, a solution is hard to find. Is democracy distasteful? Ultimately no,but getting there, in Palestine’s case is neither imminent , despite the election,nor easy. I have the luxury of pondering this from a South Pacific country so my blood is not boiling.But I have a feeling that more lives will be lost “because” of this Election than “despite” it.
Is democracy distastful?
Well, Mahmood, the Palestinians have the right to elect their representatives. So do we, Americans. Our leaders said long ago we would not give money to terrorists, and would not hold dialogues with terrorists. And we elected them. Well, the Palestinians exercised their democractic will, and we will exercise ours.
Is democracy distastful?
Yes of course, it is totally within the donor-nations right to limit of cancel donations to a whole country at its will. Donations after all are just political tools to keep things in line.
Is democracy distastful?
just because a group is elected democratically does not mean the group itself is democratic. the fact that hamas is already talking about implementing sha’aria as law reflects how ‘democratic’ their regime will most likely be.