The Arrogance of the French Embassy
I was supposed to travel to Greece later this month to attend a Middle East Conference at the invitation of the Greek Foreign Ministry. Unfortunately for us poor souls from this area of the world who intend to go to Greece, we have to go through the hallowed and completely arrogant portals of the French Embassy first.
With my documents almost completely in order apart from a stamped letter from the hotel I am supposed to stay at, a requirement that I thought would be dismissed especially that it was specifically mentioned in the invitation letter that it is the organisers who will pay for both the tickets and hotel charges, was not a sufficient excuse for the gatekeepers at the embassy. But when it was explained to the lady behind the bullet-proof glass, she brought out another fillip in that I have to provide a company letter and commercial registration. Apparently the explanation that I was the owner and detailed six months of the company’s bank statements weren’t enough as proof of sources of funds – if that is indeed what they require – or proof of ownership, as I doubt very much that a company would hand such sensitive details to an employee.
Add to all of this that I sat in a sterile room – which contained notices in English which seem to have been translated from Arabic or French by an 8 year old with an attitude – for more than 10 minutes without knowing when I would be called even though my appointment was supposed to be 10AM, a time which I respected but seems to mean nothing to the French Embassy. Nor does time appear to be of much importance to the French Consul, M. Philippe Touieain whatever who scoffed rather abrasively and arrogantly at my complaint of having to wait for that “just ten minutes, pfah!” and demanded rather loudly to give him a valid excuse of why I withdrew my papers and expressed a wish to no longer wanting to go to Europe!
“It is the arrogant attitude of the lady behind the glass. She could have been a bit more customer friendly at least in explaining the missing pieces of information”
“Ah, it is the attituuuuude then! pfah!”
This is when yet another defender of the European Nation jumped up from behind another plate of glass vouching for her colleague in that I had the attitude problem and that I had that right form the moment I stepped into the Visa section because I had the temerity as to enquire why when my appointment was at 10AM was I not called at the prescribed time and why I had enquired – rather politely I might add – as to what the procedure was?
I suppose I should have felt rather privileged to be in their hallowed offices and that I should just sit, shut up and dream up rather beautiful French thoughts and images while whiling away the time taken from running my business or pleasure, for theirs.
I can now completely understand how the French ambassador rejected allegations made by our very own Ministry of Foreign Affairs “over the ill-treatment of Bahrainis applying for Schengen visas to Europe” but only with the proviso that the respected officials at the embassy must still be wearing rather dark and completely opaque glasses as to restrict their vision and have that abject belief that it just cannot be that their staff are actually in error! Oh mon Dieu!
What shock and horror that the peasant Bahrainis complain of ill treatment and the arrogance of particularly M. Philippe Touieain who I am sure looks at himself as the gallant Asterix who, together with his chosen cabal, protect Europe from the invading Bahraini hordes!
What is it that the lovely lady behind the second plate of glass said in parting? Oh yes: “if we had to deal with just three customers like you in a day we would be shut down.”
Well, don’t let me stop you. Shut down. I don’t think a self-respecting person is going to miss you.
You can keep your precious Europe – at least the part that you have put your hands on for some reason – to yourselves. And thanks to the French Embassy, I shall miss participating in the forthcoming conference in Athens.
![[MtvSM] Amsterdam, here we come!](http://mahmood.tv/wp-content/themes/currents/functions/thumb.php?src=wp-content/uploads/2010/06/amsterdam-canal-view.jpg&w=240&h=130&zc=1&q=90)
Consulate employees are the closest genetic link to airport customs officials. its true.
Your first mistake was not approaching them on your hands and knees. Your second mistake was to assume anything with regards to documentation.
Lastly, consulate employees don’t view applicants as customers. They view them as an inconvenience.
Oh dear, yet another victim of French rudeness. Don’t take it personally Mahmood, they’re like that with everyone.
I ask the Bahraini government and the Minister of Foreign Affairs to explain what they are doing to improve the stature of the Bahraini passport and the visa requirements imposed on us. Why is that Bahraini nationals need visas to countries that we welcome visa-free? Europe, UK and US being some of them!
Have a look at these links of what the UAE government is to remove visa requirements on its nationals based on a simple concept of reciprocity:
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/08/06/29/10224533.html
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/08/06/30/10224758.html
Nonetheless Mahmood, whatever you have faced at the French Embassy, pales in comparison to the US Special Registration System. They will give you the visa but once you land at a US Airport, good luck with the wait and the endless questions until they register you in their “special” database before allowing you to enter (everytime). This is not what Bahrainis should expect from hosting the US Navy’s Fifth Fleet, being a major Non-Nato Ally, being a major Free Trade partner, and a proven ally in the war on terror. We should be on the Visa Waiver Program and we shouldnt be put through this horrendous registration system everytime we visit!!
Again – I ask of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to clarify what efforts or steps they are taking to improve the stature of the Bahraini passport?
Yes, it’s only fair to be reciprocal with our visa issuance. I see the current situation where we have to submit to rudeness and arrogance as that I have experienced this morning and return that favour by their citizens receiving visas at the points of arrival in our country without so much as by your leave.
To be fair to our American friends, I have not had any problem whatsoever on my recent visit to the States. I do know several who continue to have problem when visiting there; however.
Abu Arron there is no way I’m taking this personally, I still enjoy my French-CANADIAN chanteuses and the PSEUDO-French cuisine I partake in once a month!
But how can we find out more from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs? Is there a way to ask whether any initiatives are underway to deal with this issue?
So far, that has been the most secretive ministry we have had. I don’t know if we can get answers on their plans, other than what they want to leak or talk about in the press.
I have no in route to them either, so maybe I should just write a letter to the minister explaining my point of view and experience and then he could take that up with hopefully some feedback to me.
Or, to make it more interesting, how about starting a petition to demand reciprocal rights? That should be fun!
Mahmood, was the woman behind the bullet proof glass at the visa section Egyptian? Because the times I tried getting a visa to enter France, she was always the one to deal with my application (to my misfortune). The arrogance she displayed was simply disgusting.
Mahmood – Letter or petition either way, I think many people are fed up with this issue and demand answers. Let me give you an example, can someone explain why a tiny nation such as Brunei, who is Muslim, oil dependent, ruled by a monarchy and has no more than 300,000 people is practically on every visa free / waiver program that exists in Europe and the US? I am sure the answer has something to do with their government’s initiatives to secure a dignified status for the passport of that nation. I want to see some of that happening for us, dont you??
I don’t know Salman, two of them looked Moroccan and one at least (the one that was offensive – or discourteous to say the least) might have been an Egyptian. But regardless of their nationality, they need to go on a good course in public relations, a course that their own consul is in dire need of too.
Merlin, I’ll have to write a letter in Arabic and send it to the Foreign Ministry as a complaint. Let’s see where that will take us.
Eh, it sounds a lot like the stereotype of government employees here in the US: They talk and treat you as they please because their jobs are secure.
Is the French Embassy any better than our CPR office?
Well, so “normal” I don’t know what to add. Happens all over the Europe, and actually USA are the worse. There you can’t say you actually are born and raised in Europe, your color skin tells it all anyway; you are and will always be that terorist looking person trying to kill every white person getting cloes to you! Always! Rememeber that!
Question Mahmood:
Is Bahrain similar to the UAE with regards to allowing most Western tourists to travel there without a visa? (Or more accurately, to have their visas stamped on their passports as soon as they arrive?)
Why is that? In the Emirates, an American can come waltzing in at a time and day only limited by his chosen flight, but Lebanese, Jordanians and other Arabs need to apply for a visa beforehand. Why is that? And is Bahrain similar to the Emirates in this regard?
The reason I brought this up was because I was just going to say “Reciprocation!” regarding the treatment of Bahrainis by the French Embassy, but if Bahrain is like the Emirates and gives visas to “farangees” of the Western persuasion willy-nilly, then there cannot be proper reciprocation. Argh!
-Ibn
Ibn, yes. Unfortunately. This makes us feel like third-class citizens – or plebes, to be more accurate – as even select foreigners are welcomed with open arms in our countries while we get treated with this form of disdain in their embassies in our own countries, let alone at the immigration checkpoints in theirs.
About a year ago, a family member of mine came home from a visit to the French embassy and said “I’ve never been so humiliated in my life”.
Whatever letters/petitions you guys draw up please CC it to the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Paris.
The more noise we make, the more action they’ll take (i hope).
Would be nice to see the likes of M Philippe booted!
Shame there’s no vomit emoticon to use here..
Take a look at this…a very similar topic…
http://oneofthose3.blogspot.com/2007/07/whos-hurting-who.html
Mahmood you should have been to the German or the Italians, i tried the 3 of them and the Germans are the best! tell me about the French- the definition of the word “rudeness”! As for the letter, and i dont mean to put you down but it wouldnt work- a petition might!
Good luck anyways!
Lol! It seems people are trying to blame the ministry instead of the embassy itself?!
From personal experience, the minister is very proactive and always welcomes such inquiries. I really doubt a petition is necessary.
Why not give it a try and talk to his office. Ask them to look into the said Embassy’s process of granting visa’s to Bahraini nationals.
You, Mahmood, more than anyone else, knows the power of productive reasoning even if it takes a bit of time…
I am so sorry to hear this. This has been going far too long and nothing has been done. The French embassy has to be stopped doing this. It is not right and I hear horror stories daily. Sadly, our Ministry of Foreign Affairs is incompetent and is there for only 1 purpose, open embassies in countries where the royals visit so that they can meet and greet them. Bahrain gives the impression that foreigners are better than locals from the airport. This is the only place where the specific GCC line for immigration includes only white people as well as GCC individuals. Imagine you standing at the EU line at Heathrow. Foreigners from the first minute realize that they can bend the laws by going to the GCC line and have their passport processed. They always say that your first impression of a country is the immigration officer. So unless we correct these things, have our government actual intervene and require that its individuals are treated with respect than these things will continue.
As for the US embassy, I respect them a lot. There is a system and they tend to be very good. No one can complain about a clear system and I hail them for that. It was chaos at the beginning but now it is very good. I wish all embassies could have a system like the Americans.
Have to say, non-GCC people in the GCC line at the airport REALLY does annoy me.
the funny thing is they are like that with each other as well. I have a friend who is a french national who was told that if he doesnt like their rules he can go back to france. How typically french he told me.. AND HES FRENCH!!!
The rudeness occurs in France too – directed towards individuals of any nationality. I was invited by the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs to spend a year in France as a Visiting Professor from Canada. On arrival I was informed that I must visit a specific individual in Paris (I was to work and live in another city) and present my passport and documents. I did so (a 2 h train ride each way) – four times! On each of the first three visits (which could only be made between 0800 – 0900 on Thursday mornings, I was told that I must submit more photographs or I was missing a document or I didn’t have the right stamp/signature, etc. On the fourth visit, that same bureaucratic again looked at my passport and documents and told me that I was exempt from the requirements as I was a guest of the Minister of Foreign Affairs. He knew that the first time I visited but made me go through the hassle and inconvenience of the trips to Paris as well as providing needless documentation and photographs. No apology or comment – just a wave of his hand indicating that I should leave his office. I understand that nothing has changed in France, and the same games are played at the whim of the bureaucrat behind the desk.
docxray, unbelievable. Simply unbelievably uncivilised.
anon, unfortunately as Greece’s affairs are handled by the French embassy here, I was specifically asked to go to them as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Greece will instruct them (!) to issue me a Schengen visa! Little did they know how they are here…
Thanks Migy Mao and all for your encouragement and understanding.
Mahmood: “You can keep your precious Europe – at least the part that you have put your hands on for some reason – to yourselves. And thanks to the French Embassy, I shall miss participating in the forthcoming Middle East Regional Security and Cooperation Meeting in Athens.”
Mahmood, no Texan could have said that first sentence above better. Congratulations to all for finally finding deserving Westerners to scorn: The French! Those rude and arrogant, gratuitously uncivil, cheese-eating surrender monkeys deserve all the approbation you can unload on their big pompous heads, all the approbation you have wrongfully been unloading on us kind, sweet Americans. Why, they are oppressing you, the French. THIS OPPRESSION MUST STOP! Why, they’re probably chuckling THIS VERY MINUTE about running les petites Bahrainis around in circles.
Are you going to take this laying down? Put down that anti-American banner and pick up that ANTI-FRENCH BANNER! Are you going to let a bunch of snail-eaters boss you around? Go get ‘em, I say.
Merlin: “Why is that Bahraini nationals need visas to countries that we welcome visa-free? Europe, UK and US being some of them!”
Because Americans have no state religion that encourages us to blow up Bahrainis to make them submit to our creed of rock ‘n’ roll, fast food, short skirts, and free speech. You might note that all those countries/continent with the visa requirements have suffered Muslim terror attacks. That might be why they want to keep finer control of Arab Muslim visitors than Bahrain needs to keep over Western tourists who have no inclination to behead Bahrainis to please Jesus.
Merlin: “Let me give you an example, can someone explain why a tiny nation such as Brunei, who is Muslim, oil dependent, ruled by a monarchy and has no more than 300,000 people is practically on every visa free / waiver program that exists in Europe and the US?”
Name a Muslim terrorist who came from Brunei. If you can’t, then you have your answer.
Mahmood: “I don’t know Salman, two of them looked Moroccan and one at least (the one that was offensive – or discourteous to say the least) might have been an Egyptian. But regardless of their nationality, they need to go on a good course in public relations, a course that their own consul is in dire need of too.”
As long as the French embassy maintains a monopoly on issuing visas, they don’t need no stinking public relations. You have to come to them and endure their abuse. That is the way of government service everywhere. The government has no natural incentive to provide good service.
Business always organizes itself to be as convenient as possible to its customers. I recall Mrs. Fields writing that they designed her cookie stores so that customers could walk right up to the cookies behind the glass counter because they found that if customers had to take even one step up, they lost 15% of them. Businesses do everything they can to remove even the smallest barriers to making transactions with customers. Government figures its barriers are your problem.
Government organizes itself for its own greatest convenience. They centralize everything in one big office so they can control all their employees the easiest, even though that means all their customers have to travel from afar to get service. They never have enough windows nor employees to serve customers expeditiously. They make no attempt to manage your expectations. They don’t care if you wait in line an hour. In fact, the longer the line, the more government managers consider themselves to be efficiently using their people, eliminating any slack time between transactions. They limit their hours to what’s convenient for them and to hell with you.
That’s why government should run the absolute minimum of anything. When I got my visa to go to India here in Washington, I was amused to find the Indian embassy had outsourced its visa office (!) to a private company. There was one person in line in front of me when I went in. My business was done in fifteen minutes. When I came back a week later to pick up my visa, I was in and out of the office in five minutes.
Ibn: “The reason I brought this up was because I was just going to say “Reciprocation!” regarding the treatment of Bahrainis by the French Embassy, but if Bahrain is like the Emirates and gives visas to “farangees” of the Western persuasion willy-nilly, then there cannot be proper reciprocation.”
When the US allowed Saudis in with a minimum of visa requirements, even an expedited program, they butchered Americans by the thousands. The European countries have similar problems with Arab Muslims jihadis posing as legitimate immigrants, students, and tourists. Given all the Westerners slaughtered by Muslim mass murderers, I would not demand reciprocation if I were you.
You suffer extra security requirements when visiting the West because your culture indoctrinates its people to regard non-Muslims, particularly Westerners, as the enemy in an insane eternal religious war. Arab Muslims do not receive the kind of easy treatment citizens of other nations receive because they take advantage of every such courtesy to make war on us directly or undermine our countries indirectly. The bad behavior of Muslims in every Western democracy leads them to find ways to keep Muslims out rather than to expedite their entry.
The solution is for Arab Muslims to give up their war on the world, to give up terrorism to promote their religion, to give up their bigotry and supremacism. When Muslims are recognized as people who come to join you in building up your society instead of colonizers seeking to undermine and destroy the existing order, that is the day all those obstructions disappear. The greater the net benefit you bring, the greater your welcome and the faster you will be whooshed through customs. However, when your greatest cultural export is terror, you will encounter every obstacle your destination country can erect.
Mahmood to add more fuel to the fire, have you seen the article today:
Walk-in visas to promote tourism
By SOMAN BABY
NEW walk-in visas for Indians and Russians visiting Bahrain will boost business and tourism, a top official declared yesterday.
They will be granted two-week visit visas on arrival in Bahrain under a system being implemented “very soon”.
Their countries are being added to the list of countries approved by Bahrain for visas on arrival, said Interior Ministry Under-Secretary for Nationality, Passports and Residence Shaikh Rashid bin Khalifa Al Khalifa .
Currently, nationals of 35 countries are granted visas on arrival at entry points, including Bahrain International Airport and King Fahad Causeway.
India and Russia are being added to this list as part of a government plan to encourage more business and family visits to Bahrain, Shaikh Rashid told the GDN.
“The move will further develop tourism and promote Bahrain as a destination for tourists, families and businessmen from India and Russia,” he noted.
“It will substantially contribute to the development of Bahrain’s economy in general and that of tourism, trade and commerce in particular.”
The visitors should carry a valid passport and a return ticket and provide either hotel reservation details or family contacts in Bahrain.
The new flexible rules will come into force very soon, said Shaikh Rashid.
The countries whose nationals are already granted visas on arrival now are: Germany, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, Holland, the UK, Ireland, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Finland, Austria, Denmark, Switzerland, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the US, Japan, Hong Kong, Portugal, Greece, Brunei, Malaysia, Monaco, Iceland, San Mario, Vatican, Honduras, Liechtenstein, Singapore, Republic of China, Thailand and Turkey.
Nationals of Britain and Ireland are granted a three-month visa and others a two-week visa, at a cost of BD5.
The visa can be extended for a further two weeks through the General Directorate of Nationality, Passports and Residence. Shaikh Rashid warned that there would be hefty penalties for those who misuse the facilities and overstay in the country. soman@gdn.com.bh
Steve The American – I completely agree, you could not have said it better. We all suffer due to the patheticness and stupidity of a unrepresentative, backward and fanatical minority. It is your average guy who ends up suffering and losing out. Another reason why they must be stopped and not through mediation or political reasoning as some suggest. This disease needs to be eliminated and arabs need to be the first in line to hold a gun to the head of extremists and pull the trigger.
Ok, so the bureaucrats were rude. What’s new.
The bottom line is Mahmood’s application was inadequate. What’s the big deal, happens all the time in Bahrain. Just need some wasta to get it processed by riding roughshod over the rules. Except when everyone tries the same thing, we get anarchy. Which is why Arab countries’ public services are all a mess – the bazaar writ large.
Only thing is that this time, Mahmood didn’t have “wasta” so he feels slighted. Just like those poor 3rd world expats get slighted when they come to Bahrain looking for work. Except no one listens to them.
So he throws his toys out of the pram and bleats about “customer service”. Guess what, there’s no such thing outside the private sector.
I sympathise with the exasperated Consulate staff who’ve had to deal with a million “yes, I know its not complete but I’m special…” Bahraini applications. How were they to know if Mahmood is special or not.
The moral of this story is : “read the fine print, and be prepared”.
Mahmood: I’m sorry, but this one won’t run. Definitely a summer Silly Season story.
Fair enough. Technically yes the papers were not complete, I accept that. That is still not a reason to accept their rudeness. It would not have cost them – all of them – anything to just smile and ask me to furnish further papers. There must be several ways of doing that.
It doesn’t help when their consul just stomps around and be completely and arrogantly address anyone and everyone. When I tried to reason with him and asked him his name in order to at least calm him down he turned on me with: “I have no name! What do you want my name for? Are you going to go and complain about me to the police?” in a completely arrogant and challenging manner! He abjectly refused to tell me his name! And this is the person in charge of the floor!
Does being civil require a wasta too?
I fully accept that my papers might have been incomplete. I do not accept being insulted and to be subject to rudeness like this from them or anyone else for that matter.
Would you?
Steve the American: why do you generalize? in Bahrain and the Gulf in general we have a saying “evil is usually generalized, while the good is not” and maybe thats the case with you. If a few terrorists commited barbaric and unacceptable crimes that doesn’t mean that that rest supported them. I personally do NOT support these crimes and offer my full sympathy to the victims and their families. Coming to your comment about our culture, come and visit Bahrain. We are a tolerant society which respects other religions and allow them to practice their rituals freely. All what I’m trying to say it is unacceptable to generalize and label us as terrorists, and our religion does not have anything to do with these terrorist acts, its unfortunate that many people link Islam to these acts and this could be related to the misinterpretation or the lack of knowledge on our religion. I wist that my message is clear: do not generalize.
* excuse me for my grammar and typos
Hi Mahmood. You scared me a little bit with this post. I will be going to Greece within first week of August. Haven’t gotten interviewed yet for the Shengen visa .. but supposedly I will be entering the doors of “hell”? next week. Now you got me really worried there.. but does the saying say ..? when in rome do like the romans do .. I’ll be “French” in attitude
Mahmood.
I’m sorry you had this experience with what sounds like an odious little man. He’s obviously still a bit sore because someone with “big wasta” ripped him a second orifice recently, so he’s taking it out on all the other Bahrainis.
I’m more than a little confused here.
Why does a Bahraini citizen traveling to Greece need to deal with the French Embassy anyway ?
Personally before I had to deal with any arm of the French Government I think I’d walk instead.
Maybe I missed the explanation.
Mike
Steve,
“cheese-eating”
Wonderful stuff. You made me laugh!!
I needed that following the blows I was getting over the past few days somewhere else in this blog!
No embassy treats you with respect, like the Swiss embassy does. Always greeted with a smile and welcomed with warm hospitality. Only thing missing is being served a fondue or some fine Swiss chocolates.
I believe they will be entering the Shengen soon. They have said they will be since 2003 but I am still awaiting the rumor to becomes news.
If that happens, kiss all your worries of having to put up with arrogant employees of other embassies goodbye. Well, at least I can
As someone in an earlier posting pointed out, why should we be talking about visas at all? I would like to see visa restrictions removed from Bahraini passport holders in the same manner that we are liberating Russian and Indian visitors from such requirements, given recent announcements. I wonder whether this is on the priority list of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs at all….
Has the french embassy contacted you since you posted this? Have they even tried to remedy this situation?
You should still go apply to the Germans…. take a copy of your blog
anon
While I accept that Bahrain is less restricted than most Gulf countries I don’t think you could say that it allows other religions to practise their rituals freely. I doubt if I could distribute bibles freely in the Seef Mall.
Muslims in the UK have over a thousand mosques in which to worship, have a muslim Council of Britain, a muslim parliament,muslim members of parliament, halal shops and full freedom of expression in the media. Bahrain is nowhere near giving this kind of rights to Christians and other non muslims. A muslim woman can’t even marry a Christian. You are still living in the 1400′s and there is no sign of improvement.
California Mike
It’s quite common for embassies to help various other countries. Greece may not have interests in Bahrain so will ask the French embassy to either help it’s citizens or to issue visas in it’s name. Happens all over the world.
John your quite right however I was pleasantly surprised to find that a certain bookshop in Seef Mall were actually selling a book by evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins called ‘The GOD Delusion’ which questions the very existence of God!
it seems a little bit weird to me,I went through the experience off applying for a visa at the french embassy a year ago. I had all the needed documents, the treatment of the staff was quite decent. The visa was ready withing a week. Moreover, i wrote a letter to them that i would like to visit other european countries in the future and got a the shcengen visa for a whole 1 year.
I believe it all depends on the qualities of the person youre dealing with and their mood that day!!
John Smith, thanks for your reply. Regarding your comment about distributing bibles, according to my religion -Islam- it is unacceptable to switch religions after becoming a Muslim, and its against the rules here in Bahrain. Muslim men are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish women, however Muslim women are not allowed to do so as their children would follow their fathers religion, and its against my religion’s rules.
However Christians in Bahrain could practice their religion freely as we do have several churches. The main thing is that each respects the other and the rules and regulations of the country.
What I find a bit irritating is the fact that still some people look at ALL Muslims with an eye of suspicion and label them as terrorrists just because a few had participated in terrorrist attacks which were condemned throughout the Islamic world. Furthermore comments like that we are still living in the 1400′s aren’t acceptable, respect our religion and its teachings.
What we need is an increase in the level of awareness on Islam, and show the rest the good and bright side of it instead of focusing on negative issues.
Salam
anon
Thanks for your reply.
I apologise if I offended you by saying you were living in the 1400′s. I spent a few years in Saudi and Bahrain and all the official correspondence at work and when dealing with officialdom was always in the Islamic calendar which was 600 yrs after the death of Jesus. ( ie The 1400′s )
As for having to remain muslim from birth to death. This is a terrible restriction on your free will and your ability to be open minded to new ideas. This will always prevent the Islamic world from achieving it’s full potential.
I thought women were equal under Islam ? Apart from in important matters like marriage and children and the courts ?
The majority of Westerners used to welcome muslims to their countries but after the bombs in Madrid, Bali, London, New York, India etc we’re a bit more wary.
You seem like an open minded and fair person so hopefully we can re build trust with like minded people in our two countries.
Salam
John Smith,
We use the Christian calendar just like everyone else, but we also have our own Islamic calendar onto which refer to, which we use to celebrate or mark religious occasions. We accepted the birth of Jesus Christ as the beginning of the calendar, and respect it. Why can you not respect our calendar as well? When our calendar began is irrelevant here. I am sorry, but you have a weak argument regarding that matter my friend.
As a Muslim myself, no one has hit me on the hand and forced me to be a Muslim. I am old enough to make my own decisions, and I understand my religion, have been educated about the other faiths in the world and have myself chosen to remain a Muslim. If tomorrow my opinion changes to the point that I renounce my religion, thats entirely up to me. I have the free will, to make my own decisions in life.
And regarding female rights, you seem to look at what rights the governments or societies have given females. That does not reflect what rights Islam has given them. Read into it further please
Well John smith what do you have to say about the Thai Buddhists and there different calender are they in the same category?
Good grief! Why are the Greeks allowing this? I am Greek and can’t understand it. Family and Friends in Greece say “the Europeans come, vacation, shit here, and then leave.”
Perhaps you might enjoy this:
Most Obnoxious Tourists? The French, from TIME Magazine
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1820358,00.html.
Hey Merlin, the many questions you have wondered about have one simple answer. In Bahraini and Arab goverments eyes, their people are cheap and worthless. However US, UK and EU people in their governments and Arab governements are called “Human beings”, ok? That’s why you have to get a visa and they don’t. Consider China for example, they impose a Visa on U.S. citizens because the U.S. imposes a visa requirement on their citizens, even the Chinese charge the same visa fees as the U.S. does to their citizens.
However, Mahmood, I have applied to a EU visa at the French consulate in Atlanta and got it in few days, no questions asked! It seems when you live outside the cursed region, then you should be ok
Salman
Thanks for your reply.
I do respect your calendar. It’s good to celebrate special occasions. I just felt that the mentality of the middle east is reflected in the 15th century calendar that they refer to. Things like Absolute monarchy, one official religion, seperate laws and rights for non muslims and women etc.
Being free to worship in a church in Bahrain isn’t the same as having equal rights in education , employment and roles in government etc. This is what we see as being equal and free in the West.
I’m glad you have studied different religions and have decided that Islam is for you. Life would have been difficult for you if you had chosen Christianity , Budhism or whatever.( I’m assuming you live in Bahrain or Saudi ? )
Even worse if you had been female since you state that Islam has given them different rights. I think you mean less rights ? How inconvenient for the females.
But of course different muslim countries have different interpretations of what the Koran says with regards to women. Full veil ? Driving ? Owning property ? Divorce ? Genital Mutilation ? Child access after divorce ? Employment ? I could go on forever but it’s just a big muddle. Hasn’t Islam gotten itself twisted in knots over this subject ?
Basically what you were taught or studied in your religious education and what you have decided to dedicate the rest of your life to is purely your teachers and your personal interpretation of Islam. You could have tried a different school of thought on the matter and been given different interpretations and you may have decided that Islam wasn’t for you. All very complicated.
If you’re happy then I’m happy for you. Contentment in life is what it’s all about. I personally don’t believe in any religion and living in the West this has absolutely no consequence in my daily life because people here aren’t bothered. And even if people were bothered and tried to discrimante against me then they would be dragged through the courts and be heavily fined.
Peace
Franklin
I’m not sure what you mean about the Budhists and the same category with regards to their calendar.