I feel like snarling and drooling all the time… haven’t heard from you in a while.. did you have fun mit ze germans? vere you haffing a vild party mit some people from shtoootgart… “supa-oopa-aufengile”.. Spelling is totally off, but I think it means “super dooper monkey something” the germans, what will they think of next… anyways happy belated birthday…
bahrainirants
mahmood
Re: ehm…
thanks man.. I did completely enjoy myself there. good company. good food. and most important is a helluvalot broadcasting toys to look at and touch. add a few gigatons of snow and you get the picture. it was cooool 🙂
anonymous
ehm…
BIRTHDAY
houston we have detected Birthday
many happy returns of the day whenever that was
mahmood
Re: ehm…
while I was in Germany last week, the 23rd to be exact and yes, I did celebrate thanks to good friends, the freezing weather and a lot of mulled wine! 🙂
anonymous
Re(1): ehm…
why don’t you shove your islam up your hairy arse and leave us alone then you moron?
[deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
Re(2): ehm…
Enough of that. I don’t need you on my side if you don’t have an intelligent point to make backed up with facts and logic.
Scat!
Steve
[deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392
Re: ehm…
[quote]JJ: u aint missing anything. think of it like the catholic church banning pre marital sex. [/quote]
My guess is that Muslims take the alcohol ban to heart as much as Catholics take the premarital sex ban to heart.
Steve
7alaylia
Re(1): ehm…
Steve writes “My guess is that Muslims take the alcohol ban to heart as much as Catholics take the premarital sex ban to heart.
Steve”
I guess it all depends on what you call a Catholic or what you call a Muslim. Everyone has different ideas. In the US we talked about a “cultural Catholic”, which means that they are people who do not practice the religion, rather hold onto bits and pieces of it. It would seem that some in the Muslim community are the same way. They say “Ramadan Mubarak” even though they didnt fast a day, they say “Insha’Allah” when they havent said a Rakkah of prayer in years or decades. I dont think this way. A Catholic, a Muslim, or anyone else that matter, is defined not by their words, but by their actions. If one doesnt not follow the teachings of the Catholic Church, one is not a Catholic. If one does not follow the teachings of Islam, whatever Madhab they follow, or in the case of the Shi’a, which scholar they follow, they are not Muslim. For me, the term “Muslim” is more of an adjective, not a noun. It describes a person who does something.
This is my idea, and I am sure many here might disagree. At the end of the day I would never say someone isnt a Muslim, that isnt for me to decide. That is up to God. I will certainly say that there are accepted norms as to what is “Muslim behavior” and what is not. These vary slightly depending on school of legalistic thought, or greater still with the Shi’a compared to the Sunni.
What is most important is that every person must answer, individually, for their own actions. So if someone drinks, it isnt my issue. If someone has pre-marital sex, it isnt my issue. They have to live with the consequence of their actions, good or bad.
I will state that the majority of Muslims I know do not drink. I do know some that do, they dont pray or fast either. It is interesting to note that when most of them found out I was Muslim, that I dont drink and I do fast and pray, they felt guilty. I know this because I had some of them tell me. A few changed their ways and stopped drinking and started praying again because of it.
No matter what the radicals and the extremists preach, the best Da’wah (outreach) is to just live a good clean life. It is better than any radical preaching, texts, or sermons. It is also interesting to note that those who have strayed from the faith, if they find their way back, usually become very strong in their faith.
anonymous
Re(2): ehm…
Malik,
How strict is the alcohol ban? For example, in Italian cuisine, wine is added to food for flavoring.
-Aliandra
7alaylia
Re(3): ehm…
Posted “How strict is the alcohol ban? For example, in Italian cuisine, wine is added to food for flavoring. ”
There are differences here. Many people will contend that since the alcohol is mostly cooked out of the food it is okay. This goes for all sorts of things that one doesnt think about but has alcohol, like candies, especially chocolate and cakes.
Others will shun everything touched with alcohol, they use perfume oils instead of the sprays because they have alcohol. They wont use mouth wash with alcohol. I am moderate in this, like I am with everything else. I shun anything cooked with alcohol because there is most always an alternative out there that is just as good. However, I use cologne with alcohol and use mouthwash. Although, I must say, since I met Arabs and traveled in the Middle East I have fell in love with Oud. I love the oil and love the incense. It is a distinct scent that most westerners would be unaccustomed to, but it is lovely. It is rather expensive, a very small bottle in the USA, not of fine quality, costs about $200, and the incense is about $28 for a small bag. I buy it when I go to the Middle East because it costs only about a 5th or less of the price here. I stock up on bottles and bottles of the oils and boxes of the incense.
You might not have heard about it, but the Arabs here will all know it. Back to the alcohol, all Muslims agree alcohol is banned, the devil is in the details. Different people have different ideas about what the intention of the ban is and how best to carry it out. My motto “when it doubt, throw it out”. For me God is more important than eating a chocolate with chocolate liquer. But, like I have said before, everyone accounts for their own actions. I have friends that have different views, but that is their thing.
anonymous
ehm…
No offense and not try to ruin your fun, but aren’t Muslims forbidden to drink alcohol? Or perhaps I am missing something here.
wisnu
Steelangel
ehm…
I actually did some research into the alcohol ban in Islam, and the results were rather intriguing.
Apparently, Alcohol was a big thing in the early days of Mohammed’s prophethood. As caravans were raided, his followers would get drunk and party, but they would be a lot less ‘astute’ when it came to morning prayers.
So over time, Mohammed started telling his followers to stop drinking. He did it in steps: No being drink during prayers, then no being drunk at all! Then no alcohol or intoxicants. Then no music, no dancing, no mixed groups, no fun – but those commandments came later. 😀
The point is is tht Mohammed was very canny – hung over soldiers were dead soldiers, and half-drunk people were very bad to have in your political entourage when you’re trying to convert every living thing to your group. And certainly Mohammed would prefer if he’d not have to deal with drunk people during the daily ‘praise allah’. So, you toss the intoxicants. He turned the frat-party raider group into a real mercenary team.
Historical Islam is very very interesting when you cut out the religious symbolism. As Paul ‘spoke for Jesus
anonymous
ehm…
u aint missing anything. think of it like the catholic church banning pre marital sex.
JJ
7alaylia
Re: ehm…
As a person who was raised Christian and has converted to Islam, let me tell you, you are not missing anything by not drinking either. I havent had a drop since I converted, and I dont miss it one bit. Islam is not the only religious movement that bans or frowns upon drink, many Christian groups do so as well.
mahmood
Re(1): ehm…
You’re evading the points raise. as usual, and are going for personal attacks once again rather than answer or at the very least accept that you don’t know everything. If google sometimes can’t find an answer.
but, here’s the wringer:
If you are Muslim there is no such thing as a defined line between religion and politics, they are one in the same.
NEWSFLASH: I AM a Muslim and I unequivocally say that the line MUST be defined and they are NOT the same.
If Islam is to survive, it MUST undergo a reform and MUST seperate politics from religion.
Go ahead… label me a kaffir… I’m not even wincing!
7alaylia
Re(2): ehm…
Mahmood writes “NEWSFLASH: I AM a Muslim and I unequivocally say that the line MUST be defined and they are NOT the same.
If Islam is to survive, it MUST undergo a reform and MUST seperate politics from religion.
Go ahead… label me a kaffir… I’m not even wincing!”
I do not think Islam can ever be completely seperated from politics. The question is how can it be managed so that religion is not set by the state and does not control the state. There will always be a religious angle in government and religious parties involved. That is my belief. I will not label you anything, I am not an extremist. You choose to label yourself as you will. It isnt my issue. I dont have to answer for your actions so it really doesnt matter to me what you do. This is what it is all about Mahmood, being able to have your own personal beliefs and not trying to force them down anyone’s throat and not having to label people to try and shut them up.
Islam is undergoing a reform, it is moving slow, but it is happening. I honestly think much of the reform can and should come from the US where we are not as bound by culture and cultural institutions as are many traditional Muslim countries.
Mahmood, I think you have really misread me. I am far from an extremist. There must be a middle. Why do people have to force labels upon others? To you I am an extremist, to an extremist I am “weak in my faith”. There has to be a middle ground, there has to be room for difference. That is the problem here, neither side is leaving room for difference. Those of us in the middle are either “extremists” or we have “mafee deen”. It is the middle of the road that will reform the religion, not the extremists on either end.
You have misread me Mahmood. I am not some short thobe, diggan wearing extremist. I am simply an American convert to Islam trying to find the middle of the road here. It would seem that I can do no right, the extremists on both side have no time for the middle of the road. It is either their way, or be labeled and shut out.
anonymous
different views from different angles
…i wish more of us could accept different perspectives … wiping away some of the dust can make things clearer
anonymous
ehm…
…and funny too 🙂
…deviant behaviour
7alaylia
Re: ehm…
Ethan writes “So over time, Mohammed started telling his followers to stop drinking. He did it in steps: No being drink during prayers, then no being drunk at all! Then no alcohol or intoxicants. Then no music, no dancing, no mixed groups, no fun – but those commandments came later.”
For a professor I would have thought you would find certain things more entertaining that geting drunk and dancing with women, but to each their own.
Ethan writes “The point is is tht Mohammed was very canny – hung over soldiers were dead soldiers, and half-drunk people were very bad to have in your political entourage when you’re trying to convert every living thing to your group. And certainly Mohammed would prefer if he’d not have to deal with drunk people during the daily ‘praise allah’. So, you toss the intoxicants. He turned the frat-party raider group into a real mercenary team.”
Daily praise Allah? You are aware that Muslims pray five times a day right? Calling the early Muslims nothing more than a mercenary team is to ignore their role in history. It has been said that Mohammed (SAW) was one of the greatest political and religious leaders to have ever lived. You ought to at least give him his due for that.
Comments
ehm…
I feel like snarling and drooling all the time… haven’t heard from you in a while.. did you have fun mit ze germans? vere you haffing a vild party mit some people from shtoootgart… “supa-oopa-aufengile”.. Spelling is totally off, but I think it means “super dooper monkey something” the germans, what will they think of next… anyways happy belated birthday…
bahrainirants
Re: ehm…
thanks man.. I did completely enjoy myself there. good company. good food. and most important is a helluvalot broadcasting toys to look at and touch. add a few gigatons of snow and you get the picture. it was cooool 🙂
ehm…
BIRTHDAY
houston we have detected Birthday
many happy returns of the day whenever that was
Re: ehm…
while I was in Germany last week, the 23rd to be exact and yes, I did celebrate thanks to good friends, the freezing weather and a lot of mulled wine! 🙂
Re(1): ehm…
why don’t you shove your islam up your hairy arse and leave us alone then you moron?
Re(2): ehm…
Enough of that. I don’t need you on my side if you don’t have an intelligent point to make backed up with facts and logic.
Scat!
Steve
Re: ehm…
[quote]JJ: u aint missing anything. think of it like the catholic church banning pre marital sex. [/quote]
My guess is that Muslims take the alcohol ban to heart as much as Catholics take the premarital sex ban to heart.
Steve
Re(1): ehm…
Steve writes “My guess is that Muslims take the alcohol ban to heart as much as Catholics take the premarital sex ban to heart.
Steve”
I guess it all depends on what you call a Catholic or what you call a Muslim. Everyone has different ideas. In the US we talked about a “cultural Catholic”, which means that they are people who do not practice the religion, rather hold onto bits and pieces of it. It would seem that some in the Muslim community are the same way. They say “Ramadan Mubarak” even though they didnt fast a day, they say “Insha’Allah” when they havent said a Rakkah of prayer in years or decades. I dont think this way. A Catholic, a Muslim, or anyone else that matter, is defined not by their words, but by their actions. If one doesnt not follow the teachings of the Catholic Church, one is not a Catholic. If one does not follow the teachings of Islam, whatever Madhab they follow, or in the case of the Shi’a, which scholar they follow, they are not Muslim. For me, the term “Muslim” is more of an adjective, not a noun. It describes a person who does something.
This is my idea, and I am sure many here might disagree. At the end of the day I would never say someone isnt a Muslim, that isnt for me to decide. That is up to God. I will certainly say that there are accepted norms as to what is “Muslim behavior” and what is not. These vary slightly depending on school of legalistic thought, or greater still with the Shi’a compared to the Sunni.
What is most important is that every person must answer, individually, for their own actions. So if someone drinks, it isnt my issue. If someone has pre-marital sex, it isnt my issue. They have to live with the consequence of their actions, good or bad.
I will state that the majority of Muslims I know do not drink. I do know some that do, they dont pray or fast either. It is interesting to note that when most of them found out I was Muslim, that I dont drink and I do fast and pray, they felt guilty. I know this because I had some of them tell me. A few changed their ways and stopped drinking and started praying again because of it.
No matter what the radicals and the extremists preach, the best Da’wah (outreach) is to just live a good clean life. It is better than any radical preaching, texts, or sermons. It is also interesting to note that those who have strayed from the faith, if they find their way back, usually become very strong in their faith.
Re(2): ehm…
Malik,
How strict is the alcohol ban? For example, in Italian cuisine, wine is added to food for flavoring.
-Aliandra
Re(3): ehm…
Posted “How strict is the alcohol ban? For example, in Italian cuisine, wine is added to food for flavoring. ”
There are differences here. Many people will contend that since the alcohol is mostly cooked out of the food it is okay. This goes for all sorts of things that one doesnt think about but has alcohol, like candies, especially chocolate and cakes.
Others will shun everything touched with alcohol, they use perfume oils instead of the sprays because they have alcohol. They wont use mouth wash with alcohol. I am moderate in this, like I am with everything else. I shun anything cooked with alcohol because there is most always an alternative out there that is just as good. However, I use cologne with alcohol and use mouthwash. Although, I must say, since I met Arabs and traveled in the Middle East I have fell in love with Oud. I love the oil and love the incense. It is a distinct scent that most westerners would be unaccustomed to, but it is lovely. It is rather expensive, a very small bottle in the USA, not of fine quality, costs about $200, and the incense is about $28 for a small bag. I buy it when I go to the Middle East because it costs only about a 5th or less of the price here. I stock up on bottles and bottles of the oils and boxes of the incense.
You might not have heard about it, but the Arabs here will all know it. Back to the alcohol, all Muslims agree alcohol is banned, the devil is in the details. Different people have different ideas about what the intention of the ban is and how best to carry it out. My motto “when it doubt, throw it out”. For me God is more important than eating a chocolate with chocolate liquer. But, like I have said before, everyone accounts for their own actions. I have friends that have different views, but that is their thing.
ehm…
No offense and not try to ruin your fun, but aren’t Muslims forbidden to drink alcohol? Or perhaps I am missing something here.
wisnu
ehm…
I actually did some research into the alcohol ban in Islam, and the results were rather intriguing.
Apparently, Alcohol was a big thing in the early days of Mohammed’s prophethood. As caravans were raided, his followers would get drunk and party, but they would be a lot less ‘astute’ when it came to morning prayers.
So over time, Mohammed started telling his followers to stop drinking. He did it in steps: No being drink during prayers, then no being drunk at all! Then no alcohol or intoxicants. Then no music, no dancing, no mixed groups, no fun – but those commandments came later. 😀
The point is is tht Mohammed was very canny – hung over soldiers were dead soldiers, and half-drunk people were very bad to have in your political entourage when you’re trying to convert every living thing to your group. And certainly Mohammed would prefer if he’d not have to deal with drunk people during the daily ‘praise allah’. So, you toss the intoxicants. He turned the frat-party raider group into a real mercenary team.
Historical Islam is very very interesting when you cut out the religious symbolism. As Paul ‘spoke for Jesus
ehm…
u aint missing anything. think of it like the catholic church banning pre marital sex.
JJ
Re: ehm…
As a person who was raised Christian and has converted to Islam, let me tell you, you are not missing anything by not drinking either. I havent had a drop since I converted, and I dont miss it one bit. Islam is not the only religious movement that bans or frowns upon drink, many Christian groups do so as well.
Re(1): ehm…
You’re evading the points raise. as usual, and are going for personal attacks once again rather than answer or at the very least accept that you don’t know everything. If google sometimes can’t find an answer.
but, here’s the wringer:
NEWSFLASH: I AM a Muslim and I unequivocally say that the line MUST be defined and they are NOT the same.
If Islam is to survive, it MUST undergo a reform and MUST seperate politics from religion.
Go ahead… label me a kaffir… I’m not even wincing!
Re(2): ehm…
Mahmood writes “NEWSFLASH: I AM a Muslim and I unequivocally say that the line MUST be defined and they are NOT the same.
If Islam is to survive, it MUST undergo a reform and MUST seperate politics from religion.
Go ahead… label me a kaffir… I’m not even wincing!”
I do not think Islam can ever be completely seperated from politics. The question is how can it be managed so that religion is not set by the state and does not control the state. There will always be a religious angle in government and religious parties involved. That is my belief. I will not label you anything, I am not an extremist. You choose to label yourself as you will. It isnt my issue. I dont have to answer for your actions so it really doesnt matter to me what you do. This is what it is all about Mahmood, being able to have your own personal beliefs and not trying to force them down anyone’s throat and not having to label people to try and shut them up.
Islam is undergoing a reform, it is moving slow, but it is happening. I honestly think much of the reform can and should come from the US where we are not as bound by culture and cultural institutions as are many traditional Muslim countries.
Mahmood, I think you have really misread me. I am far from an extremist. There must be a middle. Why do people have to force labels upon others? To you I am an extremist, to an extremist I am “weak in my faith”. There has to be a middle ground, there has to be room for difference. That is the problem here, neither side is leaving room for difference. Those of us in the middle are either “extremists” or we have “mafee deen”. It is the middle of the road that will reform the religion, not the extremists on either end.
You have misread me Mahmood. I am not some short thobe, diggan wearing extremist. I am simply an American convert to Islam trying to find the middle of the road here. It would seem that I can do no right, the extremists on both side have no time for the middle of the road. It is either their way, or be labeled and shut out.
different views from different angles
…i wish more of us could accept different perspectives … wiping away some of the dust can make things clearer
ehm…
…and funny too 🙂
…deviant behaviour
Re: ehm…
Ethan writes “So over time, Mohammed started telling his followers to stop drinking. He did it in steps: No being drink during prayers, then no being drunk at all! Then no alcohol or intoxicants. Then no music, no dancing, no mixed groups, no fun – but those commandments came later.”
For a professor I would have thought you would find certain things more entertaining that geting drunk and dancing with women, but to each their own.
Ethan writes “The point is is tht Mohammed was very canny – hung over soldiers were dead soldiers, and half-drunk people were very bad to have in your political entourage when you’re trying to convert every living thing to your group. And certainly Mohammed would prefer if he’d not have to deal with drunk people during the daily ‘praise allah’. So, you toss the intoxicants. He turned the frat-party raider group into a real mercenary team.”
Daily praise Allah? You are aware that Muslims pray five times a day right? Calling the early Muslims nothing more than a mercenary team is to ignore their role in history. It has been said that Mohammed (SAW) was one of the greatest political and religious leaders to have ever lived. You ought to at least give him his due for that.
Ethan writes “As Paul ‘spoke for Jesus