I didn’t watch it! Damn I’m really ticked off with myself that I completely forgot about it last night. Although I prepped myself up for watching it, I missed it. And that was one I shouldn’t have missed.
Anyway, what does Formula 1 teach us about French businesses like Michelin and F1? If you can’t compete, moan and groan and try your best to have your way. If you STILL can’t, then pull out citing “safety concerns” and blame everyone else including the design of a world renowned circuit that draws some 300,000 fans for other events. That, rather than simply asking their drivers to slow down on turns 12 and 13. With all the electronics in those cars, I’m sure there was a way to even limit speeds on those turns. But no, that would not work very well. Better try blackmail.
Michelin teams have now have possibly irreversibly damaged the F1 reputation in the States, which was not a great fan-base anyway, but an extremely important one nevertheless.
Congratulations Michael, Barrichello and Tiero on their well deserved win.
Much more coverage on this issue on http://f1-live.com/en
Comments
Indianapolis and that French outfit
F1 is becoming more like WWF wrestling….
If its not totally fixed, at least its semi fixed…
michelan issued the warning.. it was the teams’ choice whether to go or not
Indianapolis and that French outfit
So what was the problem at the race? Is it as simple as the French tossing another hissy fit like they have been known to do? (i.e. tires) Are the drivers PO’d at Michelin? I can’t seem to find any definitive analysis on this subject. Anyone know more? Whatever the reason this what not a good move. The F1 needs to get some traction in the US and this does not do anyone any favors.
Indianapolis and that French outfit
M…
The French are self-destructing all over the place. I have exchange students from Europe in the summers. I won’t take French kids because we have had too much trouble with them where I live. Drugs…Attitude…Spoiled. Spanish kids are considered the best.
thinker
Indianapolis and that French outfit
Mo
Rules are Rules are they not? Why should the rules be changed for Michellin’s incompetence? Seems Michelin wanted to “change” the rules to suit their needs when they had prior knowledge of the problem. [b]THEIR PROBLEM with their tires[/b]. It seems pretty clear to me at this point of where 99.99999% of the blame rests.
Of course the temper tantrum they have thrown has done great harm to the reputation of the F1 under the worn out guise of “safety”.
Re: Indianapolis and that French outfit
Seems like you’ve been reading Max Mosley’s comments.
Michelin completely admitted that it was their fault for the tires. They didn’t throw a tantrum, they tried instead to offer up alternatives. They had brought in other tires, but weren’t allowed to change the faulty ones. The risk was simply too high to race on the current tires. The teams even said they’d race for no points if only a chicane were put in (according to Frank Williams). Wouldn’t that have averted this mess? Everyone wanted to race, but the FIA being stubborn forced them all to withdraw.
Fine, it was a mistake on Michelin’s behalf. The question was, what was everyone going to do now to ensure that the show went ahead? The rules are the rules, yes.. but when it endangers the lives of the drivers and the spectators then they must be flexible. What doesn’t bend, breaks.
Oh, and it wasn’t just a Michelin thing. I just read a statement from Paul Stoddart, the Minardi team principal, that said that they weren’t going to race. The only reason they did so was because Jordan went back on a prior agreement to not race, thereby forcing them to do the same (or risking incurring the wrath of Bridgestone). All the teams bar Ferrari had agreed on the placement of a temporary chicane on turn 13 that morning. Safety was the main concern. If it was about points, then how did this fiasco help the Michelin-runners at all? They weren’t going to get the race cancelled or gain an advantage by withdrawing, but they are going to have two intact drivers to race in Magny-Cours in two weeks time.
-Mo
Indianapolis and that French outfit
Mo
To be honest I have no clue who Max Mosley is. I will admit I have probably read something by him today. My observations are from what I have read on the subject and from a fans point of view. Though I am not a die hard GOTTA watch the F1 race hell or highwater type I do semi pay attention to who wins what and where.
The chicane idea that was floated is quasi BS in my eyes. I submit that would be like allowing anyone over 40 on the PGA tour to able to take a cart on the course and everyone under 40 has to walk. Ever try to walk 18 at Riffa when it is 120? All things being equal my money is on the guys in the carts! Why in the hell would one want to slow down in a turn when anyone who ever raced a BIG WHEEL as a child can figure out the turns are where you can gain ground. I don’t blame Ferrari for nixing the idea. I would have to. Why should they give up an advantage for Michelins known problem/error? That is my biggest peeve. They knew about the problem and didn’t deal with it. Then they tried to change the rules to help themselves out of a jam. That bothers me a bit. If it isn’t safe then you better not race. Kind of a crazy problem huh? When is it safe to race? (just foolin’ with you!)
I could care less who gains by this. I can tell you who doesn’t and that is 1)The fans and 2)The reputation of the F1. Without fans who foot the bill directly and indirectly there will be no F1. While this problem won’t be a crushing blow for the F1 it will require some CPR(not the card either) for it in the US. A market the F1 needs to tap into. Of course these are my thoughts. Your mileage may vary!
Indianapolis and that French outfit
F1 is nuts. Michelin is nuts. And what event exactly are you claiming 300k attendance? Certainly not anything in the US. Michelin seems to be jumping to extremes in many regards. They threaten to completely withdraw from the British Superbike series because they lost a single tire.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=23017
Re: Indianapolis and that French outfit
Mo that was a very erudite answer, thank you for the explanation.
With all due respect to your points of view, which are valid, I would say that it is not the first time that Michelin raced the brickyard. They had ample data collected through the years. This data should have been evaluated much more thoroughly since Ralf’s crash last year, and harder compounds should have been specified much before the start of the weekend. Having the teams drive even for a minute on a compound that they knew going to cause problems was completely irresponsible of Michelin and their teams. My guess is that they wanted to blackmail the FIA and the other teams and raise the flag which says “we didn’t know”. That’s not good enough. They did know the facts for one year yet chose not to do much about them.
As for the chicane, it might have worked to slow people down for sure, but you know how fine tuned these cars are. They go through various computer simulations months before they hit a circuit. I remember reading somewhere that drivers drove the Sony Playstation Grand Prix before coming to Bahrain to get a feel for the circuit, although the game was not released until after 4.4.4! Adding a chicane at this late stage is actually therefore more dangerous, the teams would not have had time to adapt, evaluate and plan for this additional turn. In my view, this was not a measure to be taken lightly, and it is unfair on the teams who were not shod with Michelin.
In my view, Michelin and their teams were irrisponsible, and throwing that reponsibility as blame on the FIA because IT was irresponsible and unbending only compounds the problem.
They had more than a year to fix the problems with their tyres. They didn’t. They hoped their blackmail would work, it didn’t. They left tens of thousands of dissapointed fans who now would think twice on buying Michelin rubber.
Re(1): Indianapolis and that French outfit
Minardi and Jordan would go whereever the wind happens to be blowing. They’ve never shown steadfastness and they can’t afford to. They are the poorest teams on the grid and have to be flexible to continue to race. So their opinion is “nice” to have but certainly not mandatory.
I won’t repeat my arguments regarding Michelin as I’ve covered them in another comment above. I will say however that searching for alternatives is not a valid though. Not now. They should have searched for those alternatives throughtout the past year after Ralf’s crash.
Now what they wanted to do is blackmail the FIA and Ferrari to force a slow-down. Ferrari and the FIA won’t buy it. They correctly analysed the situation and arrived at the conclusion that if a company as big as Michelin and their teams can’t do their necessary homework before the exam, prayers and shenanigans won’t help them pass it.
Re(1): Indianapolis and that French outfit
Thanks for the compliment, even though I had to look up “erudite” in the dictionary.. =)
The compounds used this year are on a whole much harder than last year. This is for the purpose of durability, so the tires that caused Ralf’s crash and spontaneous ruptures for a few other drivers at Indy last year were NOT the same ones used last weekend. The problem with the Indy circuit is that it is barely used (the F1 track, that is) for most of the year, therefore collecting a lot of dirt and debris. I admit, Michelin might’ve been walking a fine line between the compound’s resistance to puncture and its softness to increase speed.. but they didn’t come back with the same tire! The tires they used were the same ones they’ve been using for the whole year, and that have withstood 8 grand prixs prior to sunday with no significant safety issues whatsoever. The only way you can really evaluate tyre performance on a track is by driving F1 cars around it on a few laps, and since most of the testing during the season happens in Europe, Indy tyre data can only be gathered on the race weekend and maybe a few other isolated instances.
As for the chicane being more dangerous, I beg to differ. The cars might be finely tuned but you’re neglecting the human factor that is the drivers. These are highly skilled individuals who have been racing every kind of vehicle since a very young age. By altering one turn on the track, its not like messing up a computer sequence in their minds. They can adapt to it quite easily, and after a few laps it would just be another part of the track.
I don’t get why Michelin would know about the problem for a whole year, refuse to fix it and then hope to get something out of it by “blackmailing” the FIA and Ferrari. Everyone wants to race, and no one wants to deprive the fans of their entertainment. What happened was a breakdown in communication and a political flexing of muscles on both sides which degenerated into farce. Michelin would gain nothing by showing up with a faulty tire on purpose, they only found out about it on race weekend. Its been the same compound they’ve been using for the entire season so far, and it was NOT the same one as last year (last year’s were a LOT softer, hence less durable and changeable during the race). They would gain nothing from showing up unprepared and demanding for changes.
It would be more understandable last year, when the cars running the Michelins were inferior to those of Ferrari and Bridgestone. This year, however, those teams have set the benchmark and a decrease in speed is by no means an advantage.. it is a DISADVANTAGE. Toyota clocked in at an incredible 340km/h (a whole 10km/h more than Ferrari) on the speed trap on friday and saturday. Why would they be so adamant that a chicane be introduced, only for that speed to count for nothing on a sector where it makes all the difference? The same goes with the Renaults and the McLarens, they have faster cars and would lose out in having the chicane placed. The reason why they withdrew was because even after disadvantaging themselves for the race to go ahead, the FIA was still unbending when it came to an initiative that they’ve been propagating themselves.. SAFETY. This means that the governing body must also be blamed for bringing the sport into such disrepute by refusing to work around the problem and simply saying it was Michelin’s to handle.
-Mo
Re: Indianapolis and that French outfit
I attempted walking 18 at Riffa when it was 120 once, but had to crawl back to the clubhouse to get a cart. That experience taught me not to be stingy and risk my life for a measly BD2.. =)
I posted my response to Michelin knowing about the fault prior to race weekend above, so give it a read.
As for the fans and sport losing out in the States, its a very unfotunate state of affairs. It has taken so many years to garner that fan base, and on one weekend all that good work was undone. A combination of Michelin’s error and lack of foresight coupled with the FIA’s stubborness and unwillingness to negotiate an outcome led to sunday’s disappointment. Both are to blame for a disappointment that many fans experienced the world over, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Indy circuit withdrew from next year’s racing. I really feel sorry for all the American fans that spent all that money and time in dedication to the sport, only to be let down in such a miserable way. A black day for Formula 1 indeed.
Re(2): Indianapolis and that French outfit
Thanks for that Mo. I’m on your side now as your arguments make more sense than mine. It completely escaped my mind that the tires are actually vastly different between last year and this one, on account of the inability to change tires this season as per the rules. You’re right. It was bad for the sport, and most importantly for the fans. Both Michelin and the FIA should have flexed less mussle and more brain.
The Michelin attrition in tires seem to be excessive though, look at what happened to poor Kimi in the very last lap a couple of races ago. That retirement was also very irrisponsible of both Kimi and his team, you can physically see the car vibrating unnaturally, yet they chose to take a risk and keep him out. If Button was a fraction of a second slower than what he was, he would have been taken out.
I missed this race though, and I hope I’ll be able to watch it on a rerun on Friday.
Re(1): Indianapolis and that French outfit
That’s why they’re re-named it in the States as “Formula None”! Very apt. I hope that they won’t cancel the race at the brickyard next year, but now ALL circuit managements around the world should demand a say in what happens during race weekend. They have far too little to contribute as far as decisions like these are concerned.
I’ve read a report that the Indy circuit management weren’t even consulted if they can in fact put up the chicane if needed! They were kept completely in the dark.
THAT must have been frustrating.
Have a look at the tags on this series of photographs from a fan who attended the race:
Re(3): Indianapolis and that French outfit
I’m glad that you see my point. I’m a Renault fan myself and I was quite disappointed when I saw the blue cars being pushed back into the garage. The boys were sitting there staring at some screens for the first few laps and I was hoping they’d come out at some point.. but then they took their helmets off and it was all over.
It was a freak race, and it might be something that you’ve never seen before in the sport.. but watching that re-run on Friday you are going to either fall asleep or walk away from the television. If you have any better plans then by all means, go ahead with them. This “race” doesn’t deserve your or anyone else’s time. Looking forward to Magny-Cours.
-Mo
Indianapolis and that French outfit
Following the two Toyota incidents where two Michelin tires failed on the same fast turn 13, (the one where Ralf had his vertebrae-cracking accident last year, and another scare this year) the tire manufacturer issued a statement stating that it was inadvisable to run those tires through 78 laps on the Indy circuit.
The tires themselves were more than competitive, they were (as they have been for the entire season) better than the Bridgestones on a flying lap and in terms of durability and grip over the course of the race. Michelin flew in harder compound tires immediately, but the FIA forbid the teams from touching any of the cars that had qualified already and were placed in Parc Ferme. So now the Michelin-running teams couldn’t replace the faulty tires, they had to come to an agreement to reduce the risk with the FIA. Their suggestion that a chicane be introduced in the turn was turned down, and they were offered one of two options:
1. Slow down on the turn. This is completely absurd, if you want to win a race then you don’t slow down on any turn. You push yourself to the limit, as Formula 1 is a sport of tenths and hundredths of seconds.
2. Start the race with the faulty tire, but when it can be proven that it is hazardous only then would a pit stop and change to another set be permitted. Not only would that add precious seconds to the pit stop timing, it would also mean that the line between fine and hazardous would be extremely blurred. How dangerous does the situation have to be for an agreement on a tire change from race control? Too vague.
I think the FIA were very inflexible on the issue and created the mess themselves. The teams and the drivers were more than willing to race, there’s absolutely no sense in gifting Ferrari 18 points just like that. They even said they’d promote all the Bridgestone teams to the top of the grid in case the chicane idea was approved, already putting themselves at a disadvantage and taking the hit on their qualifying efforts.
What Michelin did was place safety first. This is in line with the FIA’s recent changes to the rules, including the reduction of downforce on the cars and next season’s introduction of the V8 rather than the V10. The cars were getting too fast and dangerous, and something had to be done about it. The tire manufacturer treads on the safe side and admits a fault instead of hiding it, and the teams get punished for it having all their suggestions turned down by a very stubborn governing body. Surely this must mean that some of the blame for the Indianapolis embarassment rests on the shoulders of the FIA rather than simply stating that it was because of the French attitude of Michelin?
-Mo