What’s the big deal?
The secondary and tertiary Israeli goods boycott ended a full 10 years ago by the GCC, and by the provisions of the Bahrain/USA Free Trade Agreement, no boycott can be entered into without a direct order from the UN Security Council.
Even without all of these laws and regulations, did the boycott actually do anyone any good? If anything it made Israel even stronger and us weaker! It’s not as if we, the Arab world, are the most industrialised nation on Earth. Far from it, we’re bottom feeders when it comes to industry… other than oil that is, but then again, the majority of that sector if not being run by foreign scientists and engineers, is without a doubt run by western technology. And yes, some of that technology embodies parts (or whole) designed by and in some cases manufactured in Israel.
Are we then to close the taps and get back to our tents, camel milk and dates because we have to boycott Israeli goods and technology?
If we were, we should burn every single mobile phone we possess, and while at it, throw all of our personal (and big iron) computers out, and then stop our printing presses, because the drum scanners used to process those nice pictures in all magazines and papers are actually also done on Israeli technology.
Does the list end there? Not a chance. Israel is the most technologically powerful state within the Middle East. This is a fact. Live with it.
Until when are we going to hold our future hostage to our past? And if the past was anything else but a failure I would have understood, but as it is not, I honestly don’t understand.
I understand double-standards though: Egypt, Jordan and Mauritania have full diplomatic ties with Israel. Qatar, Oman and the Emirates have full trade representation with Israel with physical offices in these countries regardless of the “official” version. And if all GCC states (other than Saudi, but that’s coming in the not too distant future) are actively negotiating their own bilateral FTAs with the USA, they will have to end the primary boycott of Israeli goods and close their boycott offices. Whether they like it or not.
And yet Bahrain is being picked on now for adhering to an agreement that has been approved by our parliament?
On top of that, we now have a dickhead preparing to question a minister because a ministry bought Israeli technology? (pdf) Why the fuck did you approve the FTA then you moron?
Get over it. Find creative solutions to the Israeli/Palestinian problem. All the ones entertained for the last 55 years didn’t work. Let us not hold our future perpetually hostage to our past.
Comments
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
“… did the boycott actually do anyone any good? If anything it made Israel even stronger and us weaker!”
This is simply a fallacy. It is true that the boycott hasn’t done anyone any good, but Israel’s strength and our weakness are not in any way related to the boycott. Instead of eagerly rushing to import goods from Israel (and giving them yet another power tool to control us with… and certainly not the other way around!), we should fix our many problems at home that are the main reasons related to our weakness.
As for the comment, “60 years of a one dimensional economic policy has not changed anything in the Middle East” …
Nothing has changed because the problem is NOT economical, it is POLITICAL! The Middle East has corrupt leaders sitting on their chairs, with USA approval, for the protection of Israel! Do you think that the USA/Israel is going to allow another “Jamal AbdulNasser” to rise in Egypt or any other Arab country posing a threat to Israel??? The mere existence of Israel throughout these years amidst Arab neighbors is due to ‘inderct’ and secret trade with these neighbors as the occupied land of Palestine has no natural resources, such as gas and oil (Israel imports its gas from Egypt!). Therefore, keeping someone like Mubarak on his chair is an ideal situation … not to mention the wonderfully cooperative royal families sitting on the oil wells!
Neil L: You actually said it, “America has no influence over Iran because the Iranian economian is not dependant on America in anyway”. THAT is what the Arab nation should strive to achieve!
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
Anonymous: I did not say the problem wasn’t political. Of course it is, but the solution will be both political and economical. My point was that a continuing policy of isolation has achieved nothing. And remember that any country that exports goods, needs you to buy them as much as they want to sell them. The buyer has the power in an economic relation far more than the seller, something that the countries buying off OPEC don’t seem to have worked out.
If you believe that copying the Iranian policy of economic isolation is the way to go for Arab countries, then prepare yourself for chronic unemployment, even worse than afflicts Middle Eastern economies now and creaking infrastructures which have had no investment in decades. To prosper in the modern world, you have to interact with the world. It may not suit the political position of governments but that’s the reality.
Your comments seem to justify my main point: Arab countries seem to think it is -as important- to NOT asist Israel in anyway as help the Palestinians. This is called zero-sum thinking and has been the hall mark of Arab countries’ positions since 1948. It has not worked and it certainly has not helped the Palestinians in any way. Paraphrasing Keynes, when something is wrong or does not work, I usually change my position. What do you do?
Re: Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
Why is it a falacy? List the gains the Arabs have had in the past 60 years as direct or indirect result of this boycott.
Re: Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
What’s another Nasser going to do against Israel? Forget the men of destiny – its the people’s desperate search for the politician as redeemer which means accepting dictatoral rule is so easy in the Arab world. Any old tinpot dicator can set himself up by playing the nationalist card and the people give him the benefit of the doubt on this basis. Its this political culture which is a primary reason for the absence of democracy.
Judging by the crowds in Starbucks it seems to me that Bahrainis gave up the boycott on Israel long before the Gaza pullout or the FTA. The head of Starbucks is notorious for pouring money into the settlements, but it doesn’t seem to have bothered too many Bahrainis.
So if you want to play the blame game the best place to direct the self righteous bullshit isn’t with the automated response of blaming the West but by looking in the mirror.
Re(1): Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
Well Mahmood some of the “gains” in the past 60 years have been rampant unemployment in the region. More religious fervor and a greater disparity between the classes. I say this of course with a tear in my eye. For it is easier to solve problems you have with a nation when you do DIRECT business with them. As a single unit or as a whole. .
Now Mr. Ano. above me seems to be following the time tested blame game that the GREAT SATAN America is at fault for all of the regions ills. Mudering thieves or Thieving murders. Damned if you DO Damned if you DON’T. America is screwed no matter what it does. I wonder what would happen if tomorrow America boycotted all ARAB oil? Would that be economic or political in nature? Both? The GCC states would be in a world of hurt.
Let us hope the pesky travel visa issue will be done away with as well. Tourism is good for all.
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
yes wwe shouldnt stand as arabs or muslims in any act or how
i think we should act in a diveded manner
to see where is the best economy , or run after the buck
money is most important now days…we shouldn’t show any signs of unity at all it hasn’t worked has it for the past years…lets just see where our best of interest each country on its own is…and work after it…
until when are we going to show even the simplest acts that we still support palestine ?
time to change i guess…or at least as much want to guess
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
When something does not work I try to find out WHY it didn’t work and then I try to find the best solution to that problem. The problem in this case is NOT the boycott! Again as I’ve said, the Arab countries stand in a very weak position because of politics and weak rulers that have sold their countries out.
Arab countries are weak becasue they are completely dependent on foreign countries and not the other way around – the lack of interaction with the world. The weakness comes from the fact that they are not able to manufacture as much as a screw-driver in their own countries without foreign help (not because they lack the means, but sadly because they lack the will/intention).
I didn’t say economic isolation is the solution. I agree that to prosper it is essential to interact with the world, but an economic dependence on the – USA – has obviously not strengthened the Arab nation in any way. So tell me again… how is doing the same thing with Israel (the number one Arab enemy) going to be any better? Won’t this be repeating the same mistakes of the past (i.e. not changing our position when something hasn’t worked)? Just to prove that you can argue using the same “Keynes” theory from a different angle!
Re(2): Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
What you said here is a fallacy: “… did the boycott actually do anyone any good? If anything it made Israel even stronger and us weaker!”
It is true that the boycott has not achieved anything good apart of values & ethics issue.. and it is also true that Israel has become stronger throughout the years and us Arabs weaker. Both statements are right, however, Israel is not stronger as a consquence of the boycott (nor are we weaker because of the boycott). This is the fallacy.
Re(3): Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
Israel has built an economic country based on diverse free enterprise and democratic principals. What has any Arab nation done to match this? Israel is not your enemy. The biggest enemy Arabs have is themselves. So Israel, despite the Arab boycott HAS grown stronger, Arab nations mostly at the best have remained static so the argument can be made that they are stronger as a result of the boycott. It is time the Arab world/GCC pulls its head out of the sand and enters the 21st century. Hopefully this is another good step.
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
Shame on you for being early adopters.
.nibaq
Re(4): Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
So if I don’t shop at Marks & Spencer and it is doing financially well…. that means M&S would be doing well because I stopped buying from them? Wow… very logical! LOL!
Re: Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
I guess you didn’t click on the link provided Nibaq! Have a quick look:
The Bahraini government did come out today and clarify the situation: they have removed the boycott, but there are no plans (at the moment in any case) to normalise the relations… but that won’t take too long I don’t think.
And no, I’m not ashamed of Bahrain’s decision to end the boycott.
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
[url=http://qassooom.blogspot.com/2005/09/bahrain-2-end-embargo.html]That’s all what I wanna say[/url]
MGBWY
Re: Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
Nibaq
It should truly be shame on the Arab world for not doing this sooner. I have no doubt that if normal ties had been established years ago the Palestinian issue would have been resolved a long time ago as well. What has this past mentality gotten anyone in the Arab world? Nothing expect more pain death and despair.
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
I am glad to hear you say this. If something doesn’t work, you try an alternative. This is the essence of success! 60 years of a one dimensional economic policy has not changed anything in the Middle East. I had a recent mini-debate, or tried to at
http://sugarcubes.blogsome.com/2005/09/14/israeli-exports-to-the-arab-world-rose-48-in-2004/
My argument here is that normalising economic relations with Israel is more likely to allow the Arab world to influence Israel politically and therefore help the Palestinians. An analogy with Iran is useful: America has no influence over Iran because the Iranian economian is not dependant on America in anyway. Economic influence revolves around giving the middle classes what they want. Once they have the goods and material stability they crave, they do not want to lose it, and in a democracy, which let us not forget Israel is, the middle classes form the dominant power base. They will elect people who will continue their economic well being and the politicians will choose policies which satisfies the electorate.
Trade strenthens the incentive to find moderate paths to disagreement to ensure that all sides benefit. However, the problem appears to be, without resorting to simple sociological or Orientalist arguments, as revealed in the above link, that a solution must be zero sum: if Israel benefits in anyway, then someone else must be losing. This argument seems to dominate political and economic discourse in the region, which seems to me to be the real root of the problem. If I asked the hypothetical question in the region: “would you be happy to see the Palestinian problem resolved, if it meant giving every Israeli citizen $1000”, the answer would probably be no. This tells us much. Economic trade is not zero-sum.
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
For years Israel has been used by Arab leaders as a focus for the frustrations of their own repressed societies. “You want to spout off about politics? Sure! look at what Israel is doing to our Muslim Brothers and Sisters in Palestine!” This missdirection of National ire has been useful to those leaders in the Arab world who don’t want us raising LOCAL issues.
It is also the policy that has us so up in arms(litterally) against the Americans…who sponsor Israel…yadda yadda yadda.
Listen.
By engaging Israel, longer lasting, more comprehensive changes can be acheived. To see into that country with our own eyes, to establish businessess there, to engage with the people of that country directly gives us a distinctly clearer idea of what it’s like to be Israeli.
imagine being able to phone up Israelis at home and lobby for their vote against a particular bill.
Consider debating with them in public and challenging their ideals and moral values.
They are wary,cautious, untrusting and frightened, but argue with them we must. Argue you will note, not battle or combat or terrorise. Through arguement lasting change can be acheived.
Right wing Israel doesn’t want this. We will be able to see them more clearly than ever before.
They will also be looking at us, much more clearly than before. Who will have the courage to open a business with an Israeli in Bahrain?
Have we grown up sufficiently to be “OK” with Israelis in our midst. What if the 1st to arrive here are Arab Israelis? Would that be ok?
Or were you expecting some long haired, black hat wearing Torah qouting radical to be bouncing around the Seef Mall singing ‘if I were a rich man’?
Their country exists by World concensus. Voted into being by the U.N. assembly. The same U.N. assembly we say has no teeth.
Lobby,
Argue,
Logicalise,
Introduce,
Legislate,
Market,
Sell.
These are the real tools of the Israelis. Not America, not nuclear weapons,not Russian immigrants who can’t speak Hebrew(The Palestinians actually take the piss out of those Israeli border guards from the former Soviets republics because their Hebrew is so bad.)
not superior technology.
We as a society are not ready for them to be here in my opinion.
I beleive the stigma attached to a business partnership in Bahrain would be too great.
I can’t think of anyone who would openly do this. More’s the shame.
But I can’t blame Bahraini society. For years we are told they are the enemy.
But now.
Level heads people. Calm consideration. A plan for engagement.
P.T.
Live long and prosper
Re: Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
I was discussing this issue with one my best friends, who happens to be a Palestinian. He agreed with your arguments and mine, but with reservations.
He was not rabidly against ending the boycott though, pragmatically he thinks that whatever Arab governments do, the people have been fed so much hatred by their very same governments over decades that there is a huge stigma associated with dealing with Israelies. It is like asking a Muslim to eat pork volentarily. Pork is available everywhere here for instance, but extremely few Muslims would even enter the pork section in a supermarket, let alone buy it and eat it.
The same ideology carries through for buying Israeli goods and services. Even though the doors are widely open now legally, people would be extremely hesitant to engage in business with Israelies or buy their products. He cites Egypt and Jordan who have full diplomatic ties with Israel, yet, he says not a single person (Arab/Muslim) would volentarily even buy a matchbook manufactured in Israel. That is so deep in our psyche that it will take more than a generation to bridge.
My response is: at least this is one generation less that would perpetuate violence and hatred as a means to achieve a lasting peace!
In practical terms however we have been dealing with Israel and Israeli technologies for decades. Let me give you a couple of examples I personally know of: Kuwait TV and Al-Jazeera (as well as Al-Arabia, Qatar TV and Bahrain TV) all have Israeli products they depend on. It only needs a scratch on the surface for the “real” label to come through…
Now the real question is, will the government in Bahrain cancel that 5 fils stamp we had to pay which goes to “prepare for war against Israel? (war tax)” or will that stay? Maybe diverted to fight against the Islamists and bin Laden?
Re: Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
what’s MGBWY supposed to mean?
Re(1): Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
I think in this case it means MAHMOOD GOD BE WITH YOU. Hench MGBWY
Re(1): Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
In my humble opinion, Nasser did more damage to Egypt and the Middle East than Israel ever did .. He was an idiot, and his policies even more so…
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
You have a good line here, Mahmood. Apart from political issues, boycotts are the stupidest and most counterproductive way of damaging a supposed enemy. Look at what happened with the USA and Cuba – I believe that Castro would be kicked out in a matter of days if the US ended the boycott and let the cuban people see what they’re missing.
Cheers,
mac
http://re-immigration.blogspot.com/
Re(2): Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
Not to mention Russia who is the real great satan.
billT
Trackback :: Bahrain: Boycott of Israeli goods
TrackBack from Global Voices Online
Mahmood is convinced that Bahrain should ends primary boycott of Israeli goods.
…
Re: Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
I agree with you castro wouldnt last long without the boycott. The problem with lifting the boycott on cuba is that all those good republican voting cuban americans in florida would be highly pissed and the republicans need their vote. Hell of a way to decide national policy.
billT
Re(1): Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
As long as (and even after) the USSR propped up Castro the boycott made no differance. Europe has been trading with him, as well as the Mid East and South America. The only effective time to have stopped Castro besides using a bullet would have been to leave him alone after he took power. The US didn’t and as a result the US pushed Castro into the open arms of Russia. So while the continued boycott may or may not be based on “votes” please note Clinton nor Carter did anything to lift it so that arguement seems a little thin.
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
I think in the Arab world we have 2 strategies :
GCC countries 1
Other middle class Arab country 2
GCC build there goals by money and just money they want to buy every thing with there money even peace with Israel .
Other Middle class country like Lebanon buy the peace by Power of gun .
I think GCC have the money to buy peace and people .while other have to believe in Gad and fight for there rights .
Any way let see where each one will arrive
Arabian Citizen
Bahrain ends primary boycott of Israeli goods
–
U.S. Foreign Assistance to Egypt @ Year – $2,000,000,000.00
–
U.S. Foreign Assistance to Israel @ Year – $2,200,000,000.00
________________
Is this what all the trouble is about? = 200.000.000.00
Au