The sleeping Bahrain Embassy in Washington seem to have awoken out of its slumber for some reason, that reason being the local press finally picking up the story of Juma Al-Dossary and the other six detainees of course who continue to demand just a fair trial:
Bahrain Asks US to Investigate Torture at Guantanamo
Washington, Oct 30 (Prensa Latina) The Bahrain Embassy in the United States has formally requested the US to open an investigation into alleged torture of a Bahraini prisoner at Guantanamo, a Bahraini foreign ministry source revealed Friday.At the urging of his lawyers, Juma Mohammed Abdul Latif Al Dossary, a Bahraini citizen held at the illegal US Naval base on Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, wrote a letter protesting his innocence and detailing appalling and repeated abuses at the hands of US personnel.
more at Presna Latina
Now will they get a fair trial? Or at least investigate their claims of torture and inhuman treatment?
Comments
Better late than never?
Juma Al-Dossary is not a criminal defendant but rather a combatant captured in an illegal war. Like any combatant captured in war, he can be considered for release when hostilities end. It’s unfortunate for him that his radical Muslim comrades intend to make war on America and the world until all the Earth bows to Mecca. It’s never gonna happen. Consequently, I would advise Mr. Al-Dossary to place no orders in Manama for any shawarmas to go, not just yet.
You can judge the factual quality of this article by the author’s desperate and dishonest attempt to slander America by calling Guantanamo an “illegal US Naval base.” This is quite easily demonstrated to be false with the slightest amount of fact-checking, a Western innovation rejected by the Arab media which prefers to deal in slander. Guantanamo was leased from Cuba in 1903 in a legal agreement that gave the US complete jurisdiction over its 45 square miles while leaving “ultimate sovereignty” with Cuba. America pays $2000 in rent to Cuba every year for Guantanamo. The current legal agreement with Cuba allows the US to remain at Guantanamo in perpetuity unless it abandons the base or makes a subsequent agreement with Cuba to leave.
As for the “inhuman conditions” at Gitmo, I think that the US would be glad to compare and contrast Gitmo conditions with those of any complaining Arab nation. I’m pretty sure that all the Gitmo prisoners still have their fingernails, teeth, and have suffered no bastinado. Can captives in Arab prisons make the same claim?
Al-Dossary’s claims of torture and abuse are undermined by the written policy of Al Qaeda to claim torture and abuse when imprisoned. He is simply executing that policy. It’s useful to remember that Al-Dossary is a member of Al Qaeda who went to Afghanistan in November 2001, after the US invasion, ending up at Tora Bora with his terrorist comrades. He escaped into Pakistan without papers where he gave himself up to Pakistani authorities.
However, you must admit that Al-Dossary’s claims of torture are not compelling and lack imagination. For example, after he went on a hunger strike, he complained that he lost weight. Although I lack detailed medical expertise, might I suggest he solve this problem by eating? Perhaps that would cure the physical ailments he claims, such as weakness and dizziness.
Al-Dossary claims he was served three bad meals out of the approximately four thousand meals he has been served since his incarceration at Gitmo in 2002. If that constitutes torture and abuse, then we all have been tortured and abused.
Al-Dossary complains that guards talk while he prays. The staff at Gitmo provides free Korans, paints arrows on the floors of the prisoners cells to indicate the correct direction to Mecca, and even provide jihadist literature in the library. Al-Dossary’s whiny complaint shows him as an arrogant Muslim for whom no concession to his religion is enough. This is an expression of the extremism which brought him to prison.
Al-Dossary claims that Gitmo tortured him by prescribing Motrin, which he claims is tearing up his internal organs. Motrin is basically ibuprofen, the same ingredient in many over the counter medications such as Advil, Midol, and Nupren. If Motrin is torture, then my local pharmacy must be Stalin’s gulag, because I buy Motrin there when my back flares up. Likewise, all the women who take Midol for menstrual cramps must be targets along with the weenie Al-Dossary of evil American oppression. Perhaps Al-Dossary could solve his problem by building his courage up to that of any ordinary woman.
All in all, these are the lamest claims of torture I’ve ever heard.
It is a shame to hear that Al-Dossary’s father may be dying of cancer and wants to see his son before he dies. Unfortunately, his son belongs to a terrorist organization which has sent many an American son and daughter to an early grave where their parents will never see them live out their lives. I’m sure that America would be happy to return Al-Dossary to his father if he would restore the 2986 lives Al Qaeda took on September 11 to their thousands of parents so that they could see them one more time before they die.
Al-Dossary can start with Mary Lou Hague. She was a 26 year old financial analyst at Keefe Bruyette & Woods located on the 89th floor of the south tower of the World Trade Center. She liked Twizzlers, Michael Jackson, and scuba diving. When she was feeling good, she would wave her arms in the air yelling “Woo-hoo” and do her Happy Dance. I’m sure her Mom and Dad would love to see their darling Mary Lou do her Happy Dance one more time before they die.
Steve
Better late than never?
Well Stevie-boy it looks like Juma Al-Dossary despite what you think might just get his “Shawarma to go” http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/RegionNF.asp?ArticleID=189609 Bahrainis to be freed from Guantanamo during Eid
Mahmood- Hamdila 3ala e-salama, maybe now the rest of us can get to the bottom of things and find out what did actually happen before their capture
A Saudi
Re: Better late than never?
I sincerely hope that they get released, but also hope that should they be proven guilty that they spend their deserved time in jail here after a trial and an investigation that is transparent so the right thing can be done.
I’m waiting for tomorrow to hear the good news, nothing is on the wires yet last I checked.
Re: Better late than never?
Saudi,
I’m sad to say you may be right. I am most impressed by Prime Minister Shaikh Khalifa Bin Salman Al Khalifa comment: “They are first and foremost our sons, and it matters a lot to us that they come back to their homeland and families.”
To my American eyes, that reads no matter what crimes they have committed, no matter how many innocents they killed, no matter how many Americans they killed, their blood ties trump everything. After all, they’re just killing infidels, and that’s a good thing for folks like you, right? Why should any Al Qaeda member suffer for that, huh?
I would think that a Saudi like you would be particularly well-placed to know exactly what any Al Qaeda member was doing at the time of capture. Doubtless, the Al Qaeda membership list is kept in Saudi Arabia along with the pay records and operational plans and the trophy infidel heads in the freezers. I’m sure there are many Saudi princes and Wahhabi clerics who could tell you all about it while laughing about how the Americans set their men free.
Allow me to note how Arab sympathy lies with an Al Qaeda terrorist like Al-Dossary prompting outraged demands for a fair trial and his release. Contrast that with the Arab silence when video of British hostage Kenneth Bigley was broadcast by Al Qaeda showing him in a cage in Fallujah, pleading for his life. Between the time of that video and the subsequent Al Qaeda snuff video proudly showing his beheading, where were the Arab cries for a fair trial and prompt release for Bigley? Quite clearly, the Arab world sides with Islamic killers while silently supporting their bloody work and turning a deaf ear to their victims.
This episode demonstrates the futility of negotiating with Arab governments to enlist their help in fighting radical Islam, a movement with which they sympathize. We’re just spinning our wheels with them, running a catch and release program with mad dog Muslim murderers. We should abandon such dickering and take the war to its source in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis will lose their enthusiasm for their jihad the more it is fought on their doorsteps. Let them experience the terror they enjoy unleashing on the world for their despicable death cult.
Steve
Re(1): Better late than never?
I am comfortable with the idea that if we (the US) release your Bahraini detainees then the US no longer has any use for them and they pose little direct threat to the US. Let us hope this is true on all counts Relaesed and Safe.. Now what action will Bahrain take to insure these “misguided” lads don’t go running off to play big boy games again. Either at home or abroad? What happens if they do? I fear Bahrain just turning them loose to continue on whatever path the left when they became captured. I hope in 6 months time we aren’t talking about some big BOOM at the Seef Mall or worse Senor Paco’s that is traced back to these poor “misguided” lads.
Re(2): Better late than never?
[quote]Anon: “I fear Bahrain just turning them loose to continue on whatever path the left when they became captured. I hope in 6 months time we aren’t talking about some big BOOM at the Seef Mall or worse Senor Paco’s that is traced back to these poor “misguided” lads.”[/quote]
If the recent history of Saudi Arabia serves as a model, that is what it takes to convince the local population of an Arab country that Al Qaeda is bad, not good like they thought when it was only infidel blood being spilt. There is the precedent of a dozen other Gitmo prisoners who were released only to return to terrorism; that is, the dozen of those we know. For those who sympathize with Al Qaeda’s utopian vision of an Islamic state achieved by violent revolution, I remind you that all such utopian revolutions end by consuming themselves.
No Al Qaeda member should survive contact with America to breathe free again. If we do not kill him on sight, he should be imprisoned for life with no parole.
Steve
Better late than never?
No one should either be above the law as our royals usually are. Or out of the law altogether in a conjured up legal limbo . To mete out a punishment to those who were detained and found guilty is just as important as a fair and transparent trial. Yes those are our children our brothers and our fathers, and because of that , because they arose form our neighbourhoods our society we are in part responsible for our actions,, it is very easy to relegate them as being “Deviant Elements� as the Saudi Government calls them. But that would be a scapegoat to what they have allowed to grow in the midst of us, Its also our fault as individuals to stay silent in the mosques when we hear an Imam filled with his own self importance call for the damnation of a perceived enemy or when we read ignore sections in out kids school books and find repulsive hate-mongering that in the end tries to shift the frustration of a people deprived of freedom and democray from a government to a foreign adversary.
“I would think that a Saudi like you would be particularly well-placed to know exactly what any Al Qaeda member was doing at the time of capture.”
A Saudi Like me? are you trying to imply something?? I spent my summer with a friend – A VFW/American legion member who served in Korea and the Dominican republic- Travelling thru the US in a beat up honda accord;from the west coast to the east coast and then to the west again, over 15 states,,, and yet everywhere I went I was met with courtesy and kindness. And you know what? I was content knowing that when Jim visits me I can expect my countrymen to return the same courtesy and hospitality to him… and yet when I read your posts they brim with utter hatred and contempt. With flights of fancy featuring a population gloating at severed heads in a jar and probably an igor in their midst just to ad to the the surreal picture . Why not include a blood libel too when we use the blood of infidel children for Passover wafers,,, oh wait that nasty myth has already been used … One thought unfortunately keeps on recurring in my mind; you’d make an Al Qaede recruitment officer proud with your deep seated hatred and paranoia.
” We should abandon such dickering and take the war to its source in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis will lose their enthusiasm for their jihad the more it is fought on their doorsteps. Let them experience the terror they enjoy unleashing on the world for their despicable death cult.”
Is this you message to the Saudi people at Eid?? funny when Bin Laden slammed those planes into the WTC buildings he had something eerily similar in mind -lets take their war to their doorsteps, lets kill enough people so they can lose the taste for fighting…that didn’t seemed to work either did it? This is problem within our society that is a fact. But how dare you paint us all with one brush? Would I call all Americans rabid racists because of the KKK? Should we send forces to lynch some whites and force Jim Crowe laws on them so that they lose the taste for racism?
Do you think I didn’t feel utter disgust and horror seeing a fellow human being brutalized and treated like an animal and then finally having his head paraded by thugs? Well I certainly did. You mention Arab governments and the futility of an alliance with them yet yours has propped them up for decades, including the Saudi one and this has been at the expense of the people and instead of trying to nurture a democratic and just society and a government that respects the rights of the individual and human live you want to wage a war that will punish civilians? After all that’s been said I am at least glad knowing after being in the midst of Americans again post 9/11 that you represent a minority and I won’t think less of your countryman, but after calling for destruction terror and chaos to be sent to us so that you can teach us a lesson?? Well I have better things to do in Eid then talk to a ruthless bloody-minded individual who for but an accident of birth could have easily been an al Qaeda member. It sickens me to know that while my loved ones,my nephew playing with the elmo toy I got him. my mother reading yet another book on holistic medicine and my dad walking gabby-my staffordshire terrier; you are advocating and calling for a war to terorrise them into what?? To stop their Jihad? “the death cultâ€?….for fuck’s sake man ,my mother doesn’t even allow toy guns in the house, get a grip and tend to your family instead of asking for families that are identical in substance if not in outward appearance to be killed…Here’s some sound advice
“…… Brent Scowfort, who was the national security advisor to the first President Bush,in which he excoriated the neocon vision of exporting democracy by force. “ You encourage democracy over time, with assistance, and aid, the traditional way. Not how the necocons do it he said. “This was to be part of the war on terror, but Iraq feeds terrorism.�
The Economist
…oh and by the way Eid Mubarek
A Saudi
Re(3): Better late than never?
Steve
My comments where meant “lounge in cheek” but serious at the same time. I don’t think you can equate the situation with Bahrain to Saudi Arabia. Though the nations lie less than 30 miles from each other the difference is like going from West Berlin to East Berlin. For one Bahrain has never truly had real Bedu’s. Bedu wannabe’s is more like it and for the most part they are more worried about what might be in a storefront window than anything else. Bahraini’s by nature are open and tolerant people and while there is a certain amount of “anti western” feeling I don’t think Bahraini’s are going to tolerate too much mischief on the Islands. So me and Mahmoods son Arif’s favorite Mexican Restraint should remain SAFE! (Anyone up for Senior Paco’s on the 17th?)
Seriously I feel comfortable and have confidence that if the US decides to cut them loose the threat they pose is minimal. Besides there isn’t much real pressure Bahrain can place on the US if they wanted to try and force our hand in a political sense to release them.
Still like anything else there is cause for concern with any of the GITMO crowd and history has shown more than a hand full have returned to their “misguided” ways. What I am interested in is if in fact we are to “liberate” the Bahraini Gitmo boys (some or all) what is or does Bahrain plan to do with them? Trial? House arrest? Will they have passports? etc etc etc. I strongly suspect they will be kept on a short leash if they get to go home. The last thing Bahrain wants is to lobby to get these boys home and have them creating problems in the streets of Manama.
Re: Better late than never?
Steve, ‘A Saudi’ has made a mistake by trying to engage you as he probably doesn’t know the amount of blind hate you have for Saudi in general. He made a genuine attempt at showing you that not all Saudis are terrorists nor do they support terror, yet you once again bring that huge, tired brush to paint the whole country black.
I don’t think that there is any chance of you changing your mind about Saudi or Arabs/Muslims in general. You, as I’ve said before, are as bad as the ones you preach against.
Better late than never?
[quote]Saudi: “No one should either be above the law as our royals usually are. Or out of the law altogether in a conjured up legal limbo .” [/quote]
Al Qaeda prefers to fight in legal limbo. They find it to their advantage until they are caught. There are plenty of international treaties concerning conduct of hostilities in war. Had Al Qaeda abided by them, their terrorist buddies would enjoy all the protections the Geneva Convention affords prisoners.
The responsibility for abiding by established law rests on the perpetrators of terror, not only on their targets. It is Al Qaeda which placed itself in legal limbo, not America.
[quote]Saudi: “To mete out a punishment to those who were detained and found guilty is just as important as a fair and transparent trial.”[/quote]
When do you think the Arab world will be demanding that the freed Al Qaeda members be punished? My guess is never.
[quote]Steve: “I would think that a Saudi like you would be particularly well-placed to know exactly what any Al Qaeda member was doing at the time of capture.”
Saudi: “A Saudi Like me? are you trying to imply something?? I spent my summer with a friend – A VFW/American legion member who served in Korea and the Dominican republic- Travelling thru the US in a beat up honda accord;from the west coast to the east coast and then to the west again, over 15 states,,, and yet everywhere I went I was met with courtesy and kindness. And you know what? I was content knowing that when Jim visits me I can expect my countrymen to return the same courtesy and hospitality to him… and yet when I read your posts they brim with utter hatred and contempt. With flights of fancy featuring a population gloating at severed heads in a jar and probably an igor in their midst just to ad to the the surreal picture . Why not include a blood libel too when we use the blood of infidel children for Passover wafers,,, oh wait that nasty myth has already been used … One thought unfortunately keeps on recurring in my mind; you’d make an Al Qaede recruitment officer proud with your deep seated hatred and paranoia.”[/quote]
You have been reading me correctly, Saudi. I hate the Saudi war on America and all who wage it. What fools we have been to treat you with respect, to lift you out of ignorance and poverty, only to have you repay us with mass murder. It would be different if this were an ad hoc act by some isolated cult. It isn’t.
We can read the translations of the hate spewing out of your holiest mosques. We can read about the slogan “Death To America” written by Saudi hands on the pillars of Mina for at least two consecutive years after Sep 11 for the indoctrination of Muslim pilgrims to Mecca. We know about the connivance of Saudi princes, businessmen, and clerics in the funding of terror acts against America. After so much evidence presents itself, it becomes clear that the Sep 11 atrocities and the Al Qaeda terror campaign are expressions of the general Saudi society. This rightly inspires my contempt.
Your assertion that an American can travel Saudi Arabia freely without fear, as you did in America, is flatly false. First, Saudi Arabia does not hand out tourist visas as America does. Second, Saudis are embarked on a savage campaign of killing Westerners, dragging their corpses behind their cars through their towns, bombing their homes, or kidnapping them for their snuff videos. I challenge you to name a Saudi who has been so treated in America.
The blood libel is a Muslim slander, not a Western one.
Quite frankly, I am little impressed by a Saudi who objects to my having a bad attitude about Saudis killing Americans. I am also little impressed by your characterization of such a bad attitude as paranoia. Sep 11 was no paranoid delusion. Neither is all the hate overflowing from Saudi Arabia toward America, its greatest benefactor.
[quote]Steve: “We should abandon such dickering and take the war to its source in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis will lose their enthusiasm for their jihad the more it is fought on their doorsteps. Let them experience the terror they enjoy unleashing on the world for their despicable death cult.”
Saudi: “Is this you message to the Saudi people at Eid?? funny when Bin Laden slammed those planes into the WTC buildings he had something eerily similar in mind -lets take their war to their doorsteps, lets kill enough people so they can lose the taste for fighting…that didn’t seemed to work either did it? This is problem within our society that is a fact. But how dare you paint us all with one brush? Would I call all Americans rabid racists because of the KKK? Should we send forces to lynch some whites and force Jim Crowe laws on them so that they lose the taste for racism?”[/quote]
Bin Laden’s plan to topple the infidel government of the US by one big attack failed because he was ignorant of America, its people, and its institutions, just as the Japanese failed at Pearl Harbor for much the same reasons. Returning the jihad to Saudi Arabia would end their jihad because the Saudis are a cowardly and primitive people, as demonstrated by their preferred mode of warfare: terrorism. They hail as heroes those who cut flight attendant’s throats, bomb people in their homes, or wipe out crowds of children in the streets. When Saudis are doing the dying in their own land as a consequence of their own jihad, they will fold like a tent.
We’ve already seen this in the last couple years. The Saudis supported Al Qaeda when it was killing infidels abroad. They even supported Al Qaeda somewhat when it was spilling infidel blood in the KSA. Al Qaeda did not start losing popularity until it started taking Saudi lives in Saudi Arabia.
You would be entitled to call Americans rabid racists had we incorporated the Ku Klux Klan into our government, as we are entitled to call Saudis supporters of terror for incorporating the Wahhabi death cult into their government. If our president had to kowtow to the Grand Wizard of the KKK and follow his advice, we could fairly be called as evil as the Saudis for the fact of their king kowtowing to the Wahhabi religious establishment. And you could have a field day of abuse if we had the KKK form their own religious police to enforce their views on the population. We would be hateful idiots to allow such a thing in our society.
[quote]Saudi: “Do you think I didn’t feel utter disgust and horror seeing a fellow human being brutalized and treated like an animal and then finally having his head paraded by thugs? Well I certainly did.” [/quote]
I just don’t believe it. I think that the savage Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia just ate it up. Had they felt otherwise, they would have gone public with their opposition, just as fervently as they have with their calls for jihad against America.
[quote]Saudi: “You mention Arab governments and the futility of an alliance with them yet yours has propped them up for decades, including the Saudi one and this has been at the expense of the people and instead of trying to nurture a democratic and just society and a government that respects the rights of the individual and human live you want to wage a war that will punish civilians?” [/quote]
Do any Arabs ever take responsibility for their own governments? Is it just some kind of fluke that all Arab governments are tyrannies? Were they all benevolent democracies before the evil Americans arrived and turned them into tyrannies?
You castigate America for respecting the Saudi government it found in place. Doubtless, you castigate America for overturning the Iraqi government. Whether America supports your governments or overturns them or simply neglects them, you will blame America for your governments. The secret is that your governments are bad because you don’t take responsibility for them.
And those Saudi civilians you speak of are the ones who fund Al Qaeda with their donations at their local mosques and celebrate the deaths of Americans.
[quote]Saudi: “After all that’s been said I am at least glad knowing after being in the midst of Americans again post 9/11 that you represent a minority and I won’t think less of your countryman, but after calling for destruction terror and chaos to be sent to us so that you can teach us a lesson?? “[/quote]
I don’t advocate war on Saudi Arabia to teach you a lesson, though its a badly needed lesson in religious tolerance, but rather because Saudis will continue to make war on America if it costs them nothing. We will not be safe on an airliner, we will not be safe from car bombs on the streets, our children will not be safe in their schools, until Saudi Arabia is no more. Specifically, I mean that the Saudi princes are dispossessed and sent packing and the Wahhabi clerics are decimated. More specifically, I mean that the oil revenue which supports both the House of Saud and House of Wahhab is cut off and redirected to a new moderate state built on the ashes of the KSA.
You may be making a mistake to consider my bad opinion of Saudi Arabia to be a minority view. There is very little good will for Saudi Arabia. Most Americans have the feeling that Saudi Arabia is bad, and rightfully so. There is no support for Saudi Arabia among the intellectuals nor the middle class nor any large group. And really, the more you know about the KSA, the worse your opinion about it becomes.
[quote]Saudi: “Well I have better things to do in Eid then talk to a ruthless bloody-minded individual who for but an accident of birth could have easily been an al Qaeda member. It sickens me to know that while my loved ones,my nephew playing with the elmo toy I got him. my mother reading yet another book on holistic medicine and my dad walking gabby-my staffordshire terrier; you are advocating and calling for a war to terorrise them into what?? To stop their Jihad? “the death cultâ€?….for ****’s sake man ,my mother doesn’t even allow toy guns in the house, get a grip and tend to your family instead of asking for families that are identical in substance if not in outward appearance to be killed…”[/quote]
There are plenty of orphans whose parents worked in the World Trade Center who deserve more sympathy than Saudis. Were it not for the hate boiling out of Saudi Arabia, their parents would be starting to buy them Christmas toys about now.
I would take your protestations of innocence more seriously if Saudis had admitted that fifteen Saudis perpetrated the Sep 11 attacks on America. Instead, they lied and accused America of racism in singling out innocent Saudi travellers. There has been no apology from Saudis for this heinous act. Instead, there has been lying and denying, stonewalling and evasion. Even now, we don’t know all the details of the Saudi skyjackers because the Saudi government will not give them up. These are not the acts of innocent parties. And I have read far too often that Saudis are telling their children that the Jews did Sep 11.
If it sickens you to hear me advocate war against your homeland, why weren’t you sickened when Saudis advocated war against my homeland? And acted on it.
[quote]Saudi: “Here’s some sound advice: “…… Brent Scowfort, who was the national security advisor to the first President Bush,in which he excoriated the neocon vision of exporting democracy by force. “ You encourage democracy over time, with assistance, and aid, the traditional way. Not how the necocons do it he said. “This was to be part of the war on terror, but Iraq feeds terrorism.â€? The Economist”[/quote]
I disagree with General Scowcroft. Islam generates terrorism, particularly the Wahhabi cult. Iraq acts as a giant bug zapper, drawing terrorists to it and exterminating them. That’s good. It appears that the terrorist networks in Iraq suffer steady attrition, especially among their leadership. Each new local terror boss is a little less experienced and dumber than his predecessor, placing their terror enterprise in a literal death spiral. Iraq is a meatgrinder for terrorists.
[quote]Saudi: “…oh and by the way Eid Mubarek”[/quote]
Happy Thanksgiving & a Merry Christmas. You may be reassured to know that none of our holidays nor religious festivals will be celebrated with the production of a snuff video featuring captive Muslims. As you travel America, take note of the churches, mosques, synagogues, and temples that are spread across it and mingled together. You might step inside a few and note that none of them are advocating a religious war on anybody, except some of the mosques. Such religious tolerance would be an important lesson for you to absorb and take home with you. You might even try it in Saudi Arabia, before its bloody religious imperialism does it in.
Steve
Better late than never?
At this point I can only throw my hands up and move on. “Allah yahdeek” as we say in Arabic or if you’d allow me to borrow its approximate equivalent from the Bible: “Forgive them father for they know not what they do.” Luke 23:34
A Saudi