After 455 votes in a week of polling, it is quite obvious that the majority of the readers of this blog (66.5%) think that the Danish Government should NOT apologise for the Jyllands-Posten published cartoons, while 30.7% of voters (140 votes) think that they should. 12 voters are undecided.
I personally firmly believe that Islam is not such a weak religion that it would be threatened by cartoons like these nor even bigger ones and this whole issue was politicised and blown out of proportion for personal gain and/or subversion from more important issues and events which we suffer from. But, that’s me.
Thank you all very much for taking part in this poll.
Comments
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Leila Al Atar – a female well-known Iraqi artist who exercised her freedom of expression by drawing a cartoon monkey face of Bush senior at the entrance of a hotel in Baghdad; was reduced to mere ashes when the US launched a smart rocket off of a cruiser at the Gulf in the late 90s, that took a direct hit of her house!!
Trobriander
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Comment on the Danish cartoons ?
The first question to ask is “who benefits?”. The answer must be the press. So as usual we have a press that sensationalises issues just to sell copy. And leaves most people with their moral tendons cut, in its wake. Without a spiritual or call it moral belief system, the West will slump into decadence and decline. This is one of the lessons of history.
Then, you can ask about respect and freedom.
[The end]
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
And I am absolutely sure that the US, in its power which supercedes that of God, plotted this with the help of the Jooos.
I mean wow. Without even a mote of reference, it’s stated as pure truth.
At least I can reference.
Can you?
Re(1): The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Peter,
When you have a bunch of crazy ass Muslims running through the streets with signs demanding the Danish cartoonists be beheaded, the job of sensationalizing an issue is fairly well complete. The media has nothing to add.
The parties who benefitted most from the cartoon jihad are the countries like Syria who used it to move their misdeeds in Lebanon off the front page and the Islamists who conjured up an external threat to unite and control dopey Muslims.
As for decadence and decline, the Middle East has maintained a strong spiritual and moral belief system and has remained in decline for the last three centuries. In fact, that belief system has been a major cause of its decline. The cartoon jihad demonstrates the death grip those dysfunctional beliefs have on the future of the Middle East.
Steve
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Tobriander,
No artist under Saddam Hussein had freedom of expression. They painted what they were told to paint or he killed them. You are also wrong, which is hardly a surprise, to say her mural of Bush was a monkey face. There are many photos of it on the net which show it to be a fairly decent though unflattering rendering of George Bush the elder. As I understand it, it went to the Bush Presidential Library.
The cruise missile attack which killed Al Atar was directed at the Iraqi intelligence headquarters, not Atar’s home. It was a reprisal by Bill Clinton for the attempted assassination of Bush the elder in Kuwait by Saddam. The headquarters was in the same neighborhood, the Al-Mansur district, as Al Atar’s home, which was struck by accident, not because she did a mural. Al Atar was not reduced to ashes, as you falsely claim. Her body was recovered intact.
Your post is a very good example of the ignorance and dishonesty from which anti-American critism is usually formed. If you could make honest criticisms of the US, you wouldn’t need to make things up and exaggerate, as you have here.
Steve
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
While the Danish cartoons do not threaten Islam, the resulting protests, riots, and murders demonstrate that Muslims will use any pretext to assault the West and impose its values on it.
Steve
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Let Allah do the punishing, it is His job.
And as we all know, He is compassionate and merciful.
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
this is very bad use of freedom of expresion . this action hurs muslims all oer the world he must bepunished for his action
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Steve
I agree that the cartoons do not threaten Islam in any way.
Your post demonstrates most peoples tendancy to generalize. Information out of context is akin to misinformation.
I was astonished at the reaction to the cartoons until I realized that out of the billion or so Muslims in the world there were perhaps 5000 protesters. I still do not know the real numbers.
We need to take the CNN drip out of our arms and start looking for the news that does not necessarily fit in between the McDonalds commercials.
Will from Canada
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Poor Denmark! A small tolerant nation being punished for something a newspaper did. It doesn’t make sense. I have come to believe that the Palestinians will be the big loser as the Danes were big supporters.
thinker
Steve .. for you darling
For the record, I voted, and I voted that the Danish government should not apologize.
However, for the sake of being intellectually systematic, I would like to ask Steve a question.
If I recall correctly, you wanted the Saudi Government to take responsability and apologize for 9-11 even though 9-11 was not an act that was sanctified/ordered by the Saudi government. Given the fact that there were god knows how many arab ambassadors who tried to see the Danish PM for a meeting post the publication of the cartoons, and that they were refused .. dont you think that this is actually a stupid screw up by the Danish government where they could have pre-empted this whole sordid affair? I am talking here about real politique .. not about Islam or freedom of the press.
Also, a personal point of view. I am actually glad that the JP editor Rose was racist and anti semitic, (and trust me, he was). I am also glad that the Danish government screwed up by not meeting the Arab ambassadors .. because it allowed the Moslems to completely overreact and behave stupidly in Afghnistan, Iran, Syria and Lebanon. I am glad that the UK government got the British muslim who was carrying inflammatory placards to apologize to the vitctims of 7/7 .. I am glad that the Moslems realize that they need to find/forge a new way. The moslem leadership is under fire.. and the fact that the protests were the most staged in Syria/Lebanon/Iran means that it is acutally the governments/intelligence communities in these countries that are stage managing all of this in order to keep the anger deflected away from them. Somehow, methinks the moslem doth protest too much …
I think that like 9/11 came back and the Wahabbis in the ass .. this obsession with Islam will come and bite the clergy in the ass too. The moslem clergy in Europe are being held to standards that the Moslem clergy in the ME should be. And they need to amend Islam and Islamic thought in order to make it easier for a European Moslem’s life in Europe. I am waiting for that day .. because that evolution in thought will certainly not come from the ME itself .. the civil war within Islam will be fought in Europe .. the separation of church from state.
As for the Middle East? I think that as long as the Moslems (and their clerical leaders) act like idiots, the more staying power for existing regimes, the less resistance to change. Catch 22 …
JJ
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
[quote] ANON: Nobody can make fun of Holocoust in Europe, nobody can oppose its existence nor questioning its creditibility[/quote]
In SOME European countries. Not in most. I don’t agree with such laws. Idiots have a a right to free speech too.
[quote] ANON: The rate of people who convert to Islam or get to know Islam or buy Copies of The Quran is increasing. In America, after 9/11 which was a bad day, Many americans converted to Islam it was not because of the 9/11 directly but because Amricans got aware and knew more about Islam[/quote]
Massive numbers of Americans did not convert to Islam after 9/11. Sales of the Koran and books about the middle-east did increase dramatically, but that was because Americans wanted to know more about the middle-east and why they were attacked.
[quote] ANON: was focusing on one topic The Boycott of Denmark, and focusing on how Denmark hurts our Pride. If I spoke in general, I would even write more 5 pages explaining how our pride has been hurt, damaged, and lost[/quote]
I think you need to focus less on your pride and more on modernizing your economies, your political systems, and your religious structures.
Aliandra
Re: The Danish Cartoons —NO THREAT BUT INSULT.
[quote]Anon: “It’s not about Threatening ISlam or not, it’s about our pride. Imagine someone is drawing your mother picture in a very offensive cartoonish look, and labeling her with names such as Terrorism and so on. Would You be happy? Would you feel comfortable? SURE NOT! If that happened to our prophet who is very important figure in our religion then that’s a big insult.”[/quote]
Then why aren’t you insulted when Islamic terrorists do mass murder and quote Mohammed and the Koran to justify it? The fact that you take offense to a Western cartoon and not to Islamic terror demonstrates that your rage is phony. Your cartoon jihad is part of the same bigotry against non-Muslims as the general Islamist jihad.
[quote]Anon: “I know the Western Media might use some images of the protestors to damage the islamic image even more. And, This is Media War. Media always plays a big role in changing the public opinions, it’s proven to be the most effective weapon any government can use. When South Park the american Cartoon made an episode about some superheros and pictured the prophet and other prophets fighting A monster, I was so offended and boycotted it forever. Nobody of us talked or complaint about it because that simply didn’t get Media cover from the middle east at least.”[/quote]
It is not the Western media’s fault that Islamic thugs take to the streets with signs demanding the cartoonists and others be beheaded or annihilated. That is the ugly face of Islam presenting itself to the world. These people are proud of their threats and are actually dumb enough to think that they will work. I am none too impressed with your attempt to shift the blame from the Muslims making these threats to the Western media for broadcasting them.
[quote]Anon: “I just wonder If the U.S did the same to us, would Arab governments boycott? No They won’t, No Arabic Governments can boycott Superpower nations, They only boycott the weak ones such as Denmark by using public emotional reactions. I wonder how many of us, nowadays, boycotting Coca Cola or Pepsi or KFC or Macdonalds since the Intifada or Iraq’s War?, which was part of the islamic world boycotting USA to support Iraq or Intifada. In fact, Coca Cola or Pepsi or KFC markets even increased more and got more arab customers.”[/quote]
Today crazed Muslims attacked the diplomatic enclave in Islamabad and trashed the McDonald’s and Kentucky Fried Chicken. Now what does Mickey D’s and KFC have to do with the Danish cartoons? Nothing. However it does neatly illustrate that the radical Muslims complaint is not limited to Danish cartoons but with the West in general and that they will use any pretext to attack the West.
The unintended consequence of the cartoon jihad is the hardening of resolve in the West. Americans see the riots and realize that the Muslim hatred for them is irrational and can not be negotiated. That is a useful lesson for Americans.
Steve
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
[quote]JJ: “However, for the sake of being intellectually systematic, I would like to ask Steve a question. If I recall correctly, you wanted the Saudi Government to take responsability and apologize for 9-11 even though 9-11 was not an act that was sanctified/ordered by the Saudi government. Given the fact that there were god knows how many arab ambassadors who tried to see the Danish PM for a meeting post the publication of the cartoons, and that they were refused .. dont you think that this is actually a stupid screw up by the Danish government where they could have pre-empted this whole sordid affair? I am talking here about real politique .. not about Islam or freedom of the press.” [/quote]
Jasra, my dear, I disagree that the Saudi government did not sanctify and support the Sep 11 attacks, and others. The Saudi government has made the Wahhabi death cult the state religion, which preaches war against the West, particularly America. It’s media and mosques preach war with America. It has institutionalized that concept of jihad in its schools and universities. Many Saudis graduate with a degree in Islamic studies which is essentially a degree in jihad. Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda are the natural consequence of this murderous Saudi state bigotry. Bin Laden is not saying anything which is not the official doctrine of the Wahhabis, supported by the Saudis. Furthermore, Saudi money supported Al Qaeda and interrogations of captured Al Qaeda members revealed connections to Saudi princes who support them. Saudi Arabia is playing a double game of pretending to be an ally while fomenting terror against us.
The Danish government on the other hand is not responsible for the cartoons. The Arab ambassadors want to act in a little political theater for their home constituencies by demanding an apology from the Danish government. They are taking their complaint to the wrong place. However, it doubtless plays well for the ignorant masses of most Muslim countries who don’t understand what a free press is and are convinced that European governments control their press just like Arab governments do. The Danish authorities were completely correct to say they weren’t responsible for what is printed in a free press. Those Arab ambassadors should take their complaints to the authors of the cartoons and the newspaper which printed them, not the Danish government nor the UN nor the Hague. I don’t think the Danish PM should have received Arab ambassadors demanding apologies for Danish cartoons any more than he should receive Arab ambassadors demanding apologies for too sugary Danish butter cookies or bad herring.
However, that disagreement aside, I agree completely with the rest of your post. The cartoon jihad is about as bloodless as the clash of civilizations gets and it has done much to educate the general population in the West about the threat of radical Islam. Hopefully, it has discredited the radical preachers in the eyes of moderate European Muslims, who have made some feeble efforts to counter them this time. Maybe, in time, they’ll construct a new Islam that embraces the modern world and jettisons the hate.
Steve
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
I am not here to convince any one, I gave my opinion and that’s it, no further argument. I am not expecting you to agree nor disagree. If you thought my pride or dignity was tribal traditional one then you are mistaken.
Salam.
The Danish Cartoons —NO THREAT BUT INSULT.
It’s not about Threatening ISlam or not, it’s about our pride. Imagine someone is drawing your mother picture in a very offensive cartoonish look, and labeling her with names such as Terrorism and so on. Would You be happy? Would you feel comfortable? SURE NOT! If that happened to our prophet who is very important figure in our religion then that’s a big insult.
I know some of these boycott reactions did not go well, I mean didn’t go peacefully some violence occured here and there. However, not all people are perfect, and not everyone is logically an einstein. People get emotional and lose control, but I myself prefer to be patient and use logics before jumping to conclusion. And logics lead me to many things.
I know the Western Media might use some images of the protestors to damage the islamic image even more. And, This is Media War. Media always plays a big role in changing the public opinions, it’s proven to be the most effective weapon any government can use. When South Park the american Cartoon made an episode about some superheros and pictured the prophet and other prophets fighting A monster, I was so offended and boycotted it forever. Nobody of us talked or complaint about it because that simply didn’t get Media cover from the middle east at least.
I just wonder If the U.S did the same to us, would Arab governments boycott? No They won’t, No Arabic Governments can boycott Superpower nations, They only boycott the weak ones such as Denmark by using public emotional reactions. I wonder how many of us, nowadays, boycotting Coca Cola or Pepsi or KFC or Macdonalds since the Intifada or Iraq’s War?, which was part of the islamic world boycotting USA to support Iraq or Intifada. In fact, Coca Cola or Pepsi or KFC markets even increased more and got more arab customers. Our problem is “We Forget easy and Talk like A Superpower nation that would invade JUPITAR before MARS!!” . Sorry to Talk a lot. And Salam–[x]
http://nezitic.blogspot.com
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
All I can say to all of this is
Religion is the root of all evil!!
But there again it isn’t god that tells you to do it. It is Religion, and who thought of this stuff but man.
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
But you’re wrong in all the concepts you brought forth:
1. You advocate collective punishment because of an independent newspaper’s action in printing cartoons.
2. You cannot comprehend that newspapers in the West are independent and that no government can control them. You have transposed what is completely true in the third world including the Muddle East whose government do control, and in a lot of cases own, newspapers and can direct what is and is not written.
3. You fail to understand that it is not about ego, pride or any other emotion. This is the bankrupted was of thinking. Muslims need to engage their brains before they engage their hearts and throats.
4. You assert in your thinking (and the people who think like you, which is the majority) that Islam is inferior as it is threatened by a simple insult to the Prophet. Failing to take into account what the Prophet has demonstrated himself in this situation: did you not hear of his jewish neighbour throwing rubbish at him every day, and when that did not happen for a couple of days the Prophet went to inquire about his jewish neighbour’s health?
5. You further assert that your points raised are weak, because you are not prepared for honest and objective debate, but come back with [i]I am not expecting you to agree nor disagree[/i].
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Communism was the biggest mass murderer of all time and that was an atheistic philosophy.
Re: The Danish Cartoons —NO THREAT BUT INSULT.
Calm down.
What we need is dialogue, not demagogue, and certainly not taking things personally, no matter how emotive the situation is. Think and be objective. Ranting and raving does not and will not achieve reasonable conclusions. It will make you feel good about yourself for a little while, but it will not change things to the better generally.
What has happened so far, due to the emotive handling of the situation, is alienate one of the most supportive countries in the west to our various causes. That’s the value of our “pride.”
Islam and the Prophet are entities protected by Allah as has been repeatedly affirmed in his book. End of story. Let’s now move on to practical solutions to the problem. I am not interested in an apology and don’t want nor need one. I am thankful for this episode as it squarely demonstrated our shortcomings.
Consider this:
What is the image of Islam and Muslims in the West, and specifically in a country that has always been supportive of our causes?
That image is not far from what they have portrayed.
Objectively:
and the list goes on…
Doesn’t it offend you (and your pride) that these terrorists besmirch the good name of our beloved Prophet Mohammed bin Abdullah when they utter his name and taking it as justification while they decapitate a hapless human being?
So what if they swore at our prophet?
It is OUR prophet, not theirs. The drawings from THEIR prospective are NOT blasphemous, from OURS if one of US drew them they would be.
Before I get to work, please consider this:
Denmark has embraced our citizens who have been thrown out of their own countries simply for having differing political views which our leaders and their agents found disturbing? There are about 800 Bahrainis in Denmark for instance. A country which has discovered the Delmon civilisation in Bahrain, I might add, mostly through their own resources and interest by mounting archaeological explorations here and virtually establishing our museum. Are their logicalness’s discoveries (which WE have been living on and destroying for hundreds of years) and the museum be discounted, banned and destroyed too?
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
I think the government should not be held responsible BUT the Danish prime minister refused to receive a protest delegation of Danish Islamic leaders and ambassadors from Muslim countries. It is only after international protests that Mr Rasmussen urged Muslim ambassadors to come and meet him. The Danish government’s insensitivity and rudeness was almost as offensive as the cartoons.
Amjid
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Salaam
It is my experiance that insults only work if there is some basis of truth to them. Otherwise they simply belittle the speaker. You should not be insulted unless you are an Islamic terrorist. I was always taught that acknowledging an insult only added to its weight. Your statement about the southpark episode illustrates this perfectly.
It is not the cartoons themselves or the rights of the publisher that threaten Islam. It is the handful of people and organizations that whip us all (I am not muslim) up into a frenzy that need rooting out. More importantly, these people and organizations are threatening alot more than Islam.
Mahmood,
I do not think that they did swear at your prophet. I think they swore at the terrorists.
[Modified by: Will from Canada (Will) on February 14, 2006 01:03 AM]
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Hey anon…I didn’t assume the ‘pride thing’ was tribal…just that in the ME people get their feelings hurt easier than we do…it seems anyway.
I don’t understand why anyone would expect a meeting with a prime minister over a cartoon or an occasional insult from the press.
thinker
Re(1): The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
[quote]Without a spiritual or call it moral belief system, the West will slump into decadence and decline.[/quote]
This old nonsense again. The West isn’t slumping into anything, except in your dreams. Moreover, Western societies are in many respects some of the most “moral” anywhere in the world: in what other societies are human rights so deeply and universally enshrined, the poor so well looked after in comparison to elsewhere, the principles of equality, liberty and justice so rigorously upheld, and the socio-political systems so stable and benevolent towards those they serve?
I’ll take the West’s “moral belief system” any day over those of Saudi, or Pakistan, or Syria, or Iran.
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Evil has lots of roots. It can grow in many different soils.
Steve
Re: The Danish Cartoons —NO THREAT BUT INSULT.
[quote]It’s not about Threatening ISlam or not, it’s about our pride. Imagine someone is drawing your mother picture in a very offensive cartoonish look, and labeling her with names such as Terrorism and so on. Would You be happy? Would you feel comfortable? SURE NOT! [/quote]
Another of those useless, inappropriate analogies. Mohammed isn’t just someone’s mother. He’s a hugely important religious and political figurehead for well over a billion people, and what he represents (or is claimed to represent) has a much wider impact even than that. Like any such figurehead, he is controversial and viewed differently in different societies and by different individuals. To Muslims he’s a prophet; to non-Muslims he’s just one of a number of dead ideologues who have become iconic embodiments of certain sets of beliefs (whether political or religious or some amalgam of the two).
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Amjid,
Accepting Arab ambassadors bearing complaints about cartoons published in the free press is to accept their premise that the Danish government is responsible for those cartoons. It is not. Both the complaints and ambassadors bearing them were rightfully rejected.
Instead of treating Denmark like a third world tyranny in which everything is controlled by the government, the Arab ambassadors and their fellow Arab subjects should bone up on how the free world works, at least enough so that they know the correct place to lodge a complaint.
Steve
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Here are photos of Muslim nutcases setting Ronald McDonald on fire. Now I could understand dealing harshly with the Hamburgler but what has Ronald McDonald ever done to Muslims but pass out Happy Meals? Who’s next on the Muslim hit list? Mayor McCheese?
Just how stupid is the Muslim world gonna get in waging their cartoon jihad? Roasting Ronald should take the prize but who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of those turbanned mullah geniuses. Maybe Colonel Sanders will be burned at the stake for the honor of Islam, seasoned with eleven herbs and spices? Perhaps they’ll behead the Michelin Man.
Does anyone think this does anything for the Islamic world other than make Muslims look like a bunch of violent idiots?
Steve
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
This isn’t about cartoons.
These radicals are waging a war against the West in general. The cartoons were just the excuse.
I’d give it another week before the testosterone burns out.
Aliandra
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
[b]To Anonymous: [/b]I won’t argue more, I said my points clearly, you disagree with me or not, that’s up to you.
It’s not useless analogies, it’s just a simple example to reach another’s low-IQ brain understanding.
[b]To Mahmood[/b]: Maybe you missed some statistic or never tried to relate this statistic to what’s going on. I always wonder about something very interesting happening in Europe which is that whenever there’s a terrorist attack or islamic protests against the west, The rate of people who convert to Islam or get to know Islam or buy Copies of The Quran is increasing. In America, after 9/11 which was a bad day, Many americans converted to Islam it was not because of the 9/11 directly but because Amricans got aware and knew more about Islam. The message here was delivered in a bad way, but it was effective indirectly. I am not saying, This way of doing is good or bad, All I am saying is that It’s always interesting to me and very mysterious how things go, in the end alll I say Allah guides whoever he wants to. And We muslims have failed again to deliver and spread the message instead we got busy watching Hayfa Wahbi Video Clips.
[quote]
What is the image of Islam and Muslims in the West, and specifically in a country that has always been supportive of our causes?
That image is not far from what they have portrayed.
Objectively:
# what have we (as Muslims) provided other than: massacres in Iraq, Afghanistan, 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Bali, and countless other terrorist attacks done in OUR name?
# On-air beheadings while shouting our God’s name and our beloved Prophet’s name.
# Continuous preaching of hate against everyone and everything who opposes our view.[/quote]
And, I didnt say that Islam’s image in the west is good What I said was that They will damage it even more. You went explaining how the islamic image is and so on, while In fact I didn’t even disagree with that. My Pride is every muslim’s pride, Terrorism is not my pride, you went on and trying to relate what’s going on to my/our pride. I was focusing on one topic The Boycott of Denmark, and focusing on how Denmark hurts our Pride. If I spoke in general, I would even write more 5 pages explaining how our pride has been hurt, damaged, and lost for more than a century now by Arab leaders themselves. I even wrote a whole post about it on my blog. All I focused on in this reply was Denmark, but you jumped into conclusion and trying to relate everything around me to Denmark Boycott and questioning my/our pride !
[quote]
Denmark has embraced our citizens who have been thrown out of their own countries simply for having differing political views which our leaders and their agents found disturbing? There are about 800 Bahrainis in Denmark for instance. A country which has discovered the Delmon civilisation in Bahrain, I might add, mostly through their own resources and interest by mounting archaeological explorations here and virtually establishing our museum. Are their logicalness’s discoveries (which WE have been living on and destroying for hundreds of years) and the museum be discounted, banned and destroyed too?[/quote]
I also said that Why Boycotting a weak country not a superpower one, So no need to go into further argument on that.
[quote]
It is OUR prophet, not theirs. The drawings from THEIR prospective are NOT blasphemous, from OURS if one of US drew them they would be.[/quote]
The same newspaper refused to publish cartoons about Jesus, and I am sure they won’t even publish stuff about Holocoust. Nobody can make fun of Holocoust in Europe, nobody can oppose its existence nor questioning its creditibility. However it was ok to insult One and half Billion Muslims in 12, not One, cartoons. Well There are some arab leaders [Moamar Algathafi first one] who insulted the prophet too, I won’t take any side but at least be logical. In Fact I would boycott Denmark if I see our leaders first on TV doing it, otherwise I don’t want them watching us protesting while they are eating some fancy danish cheese on their 32 inch plasma HD Tv. And, I would even prefer to boycott first- Libya, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Tunisia, UK, France, USA, ISrael then eventually Denmark, but I guess Arabs go in different orders, they start from the weakest, and stops at the weakest too.
Salam–[x],.
http://nezitic.blogspot.com
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
we will have to agree to disagree, as our points of view are diametrically opposite.
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Yes I am weak and THE MANJORITY!, and Mahmood is the strong one,very open-minded and the MINORITY, Can we finish the argument now? It’s not like I am going to convince you nor will you. It’s easy for you to judge. So keep judging, and make assumption about how I think as you think! and bullet them too.
Salam–[x]
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
thinker wrote:
Not true anon. The editor of the newspaper offered to publish photos about the holocaust. You can deny the holocaust in Denmark as you can in the US. It is not illegal. Every day anti-semetic or anti US cartoons are printed in the Middle East.
Personally, I applaud you for admitting that it is your pride that is hurt. That is true honesty. I think if you can relate not above others or below others but equal to others then pride issues go away. This ‘pride thing’ must be hard. Its a cultural problem in the Middle East. It is Not your fault. But…neither is it the fault of Denmark.
thinker
If Islam is peaceful, who or what’s responsible for all the violence?
For instance, if Bahrain is a tolerant ‘moderate’ islamic country, why aren’t there any Jewish Synagogues there?
The answer is simple: it would get immediately burned down.
This isn’t an anti-bahrain argument, in all of the countries in the gulf, the answer would be the same.
I don’t buy the ‘peaceful religion’ stuff any more than I believe that christians follow Jesus’ teachings. So why the huge outbreak of violence, when [b]common sense[/b] dictates peaceful protests are far more effective?
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Will,
While you are examining the number of Muslim protestors running amok in the streets in the cartoon jihad, examine also the number of Muslim counter-protestors demonstrating peaceably for free speech: zero.
When you look at what the Muslim world is doing, you should also sit back and think about what the Muslim world is not doing and consider the reasons for it.
Steve
The Cartoon Jihad Against Free Speech
The Muslim war against free speech continues online, where Muslims are organizing a global embassy burning day in which Muslims the world around will burn down every Danish embassy. Sheikhs Nazim al-Misbah of Kuwait has helpfully pronounced death sentences on the Danish cartoonists. However, that’s not enough for Usbat al-Ansar of the Ein Helweh refugee camp in Lebanon who calls for “reviving the “tradition of slaughter.” Silly me, I thought we were in the midst of a great revival of that Muslim tradition.
Muslims are busy elsewhere launching denial of service attacks on websites they don’t like and making death threats. Here are some samples of Muslim hate mail sent to Michelle Malkin after she published the Danish cartoons:
[quote]From: naser jianpour (n_jianpour@yahoo.com)
To: writemalkin@gmail.com
Mailed-By: yahoo.com
Date: Feb 10, 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: we will kill you
I am Iranian I am a mosleme .
We will kill you( every )
down with you( Crectian & jowe.)
world is mine.
***
From: monalisa monalisa (monalisa23h@hotmail.com)
To: writemalkin@gmail.com
Mailed-By: hotmail.com
Date: Feb 4, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: you are filth
the dishonourable the mean the prostitute I’am a müslim and turkish I kill
you devil you are goto the hell shit the whore
***
From: greatmastafa@web.de (greatmastafa@web.de)
Mailed-By: web.de
To: writemalkin@gmail.com
Date: Feb 11, 2006 9:41 PM
Subject: mohammed
you have one day to delete all pictures of mohammed from your server, or i hack this site and delete all files on this server. ok
mohammed have never a face. dou you now.
for ever islam[/quote]
The only thing missing is a reminder that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.
We must never, never, never give in to these Neanderthal thugs. At the same time, it would be wise to make sure the ammo lockers are full and the machine guns well-oiled.
Steve
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
[quote]Maybe you missed some statistic or never tried to relate this statistic to what’s going on. I always wonder about something very interesting happening in Europe which is that whenever there’s a terrorist attack or islamic protests against the west, The rate of people who convert to Islam or get to know Islam or buy Copies of The Quran is increasing. In America, after 9/11 which was a bad day, Many americans converted to Islam it was not because of the 9/11 directly but because Amricans got aware and knew more about Islam.[/quote]
Mahmood – please pardon my bluntness – for I must be insensitive. I have nothing, per se against conversion to Islam. I find it .. bizaare to say the least, especially considering the people (such as he-who-must-not-be-named) who seem to be the type to convert.
For every moron who saw 9/11 and thought “Hey, I hate America too, why not convert to an imperialist religion as espoused by maniacs who will fly into buildings and kill people!!” there were many MANY more who bought a copy of the Koran and sat down to read it, discovered it was, in fact, a [b]very badly[/b] written book, contained innumerable theosophical absurdities and an entire Sura (#111) devoted to a personal rant aganst Mohammed’s UNCLE, Abu Laban.
Interesting. Islam is the ‘Religion of Peace
Re: If Islam is peaceful, who or what’s responsible for all the violence?
erm.. once you get your head out of your ass, try using google and search for “bahrain synagogue” the results will surprise you, but won’t most everybody else:
1. Jews in Bahrain.
2. Rebellion in Bahrain.
Then you might want to do a quick seach on Mahmood’s Den, where you will find references that we not only do have an indiginous Jewish and Christian Bahraini community and have had for a long time, we do have both a Christian LADY AND a Jewish gentleman as members of parliament.
Ms. Elie Sema’an is also the first Christian woman EVER to CHAIR a parliamentary session in Bahrain and the whole Muslim world.
So don’t come here just chirping about things you have no knowledge of whatsoever and pretend to present an “intelligent” comment. Do your research, or just try to learn to read rather than just jump at the deap end. What you’re doing is just providing proof that you are a moron.
Re(1): If Islam is peaceful, who or what’s responsible for all the violence?
…and the head of the Bahrain Human Rights Watch Society is a Jewish woman. So Jewish Bahrainis are fully involved in civil society too.
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
[quote]Can we finish the argument now? It’s not like I am going to convince you nor will you[/quote]
When we stop talking we start fighting. I visit sites like this one with the express purpose of changing my opinions. I have learned more in the past month about Islam than in my entire life. I think Dylan said “those not busy being born are busy dying”
Mahmood, your eloquence is an inspiration.
Will from Canada
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
why should he? the iranian president or saudi arabian newspapers hurt jewisch all over the world. are they punished? they don’t even have to appologice. so, why apply double standards?
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Here is an analysis of the back story of the cartoon jihad from this morning’s Washington Post.
Steve
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Mahmood
Maybe I am a bit slow but I really hadn’t thought about it but totally agree with your point that in certain countries (unnamed) the government controls the press and therefore people who may be from those countries think that the press in certain other countries (such as Denmark) is controlled by the government too and so the Danish government can control this.
I am happy to see my colstore still slling Lurpack butter (for the moment anyway)….to be honest, most of my bahraini friends think this Danish ‘boycott’ is a nonsense.
Johnster
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
The Danish prime minister should have met with the ambassadors- it might have helped-
when will the muslim masses apologize the burning of the flag of Denmark- which incorporates the Cross- a sacred object to 2.4 billion Christians?-
Re: The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Johnster
Even ole Vlad Putin asked “W” why he didn’t fire Dan Rather during “memo gate”. It does seem the concept of a FREE PRESS is a hard thing to grasp for many. I am sure “W” would have loved to have pulled a Donald Trump and called ole Dan up and said YOUR FIRED!
The Big Picture
Just to step back from the Cartoon Jihad for a moment and look at the Big Picture, there is an excellent article in The Atlantic Monthly magazine, The Roots Of Muslim Rage, written by Bernard Lewis sixteen years ago in 1990, that provides keen insight and background to the ongoing truculence of the Muslim world to the West.
When you wonder why the Muslims in Pakistan run amok in the diplomatic enclave in Islamabad, you might be interested to know this isn’t the first time, or even the second time. Storming the embassies in Islamabad is a tradition for Muslim nutcases:
[quote]”In November of 1979 an angry mob attacked and burned the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan. The stated cause of the crowd’s anger was the seizure of the Great Mosque in Mecca by a group of Muslim dissidentsâ€â€Âan event in which there was no American involvement whatsoever. Almost ten years later, in February of 1989, again in Islamabad, the USIS center was attacked by angry crowds, this time to protest the publication of Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses. Rushdie is a British citizen of Indian birth, and his book had been published five months previously in England. But what provoked the mob’s anger, and also the Ayatollah Khomeini’s subsequent pronouncement of a death sentence on the author, was the publication of the book in the United States.”[/quote]
In short, whatever happens, the default course of action for Pakistani Muslims is to storm the embassies and denounce America.
Lewis explains that the principal complaint of the Muslim world is that it does not reign supreme over the world:
[quote]”What is truly evil and unacceptable is the domination of infidels over true believers. For true believers to rule misbelievers is proper and natural, since this provides for the maintenance of the holy law, and gives the misbelievers both the opportunity and the incentive to embrace the true faith. But for misbelievers to rule over true believers is blasphemous and unnatural, since it leads to the corruption of religion and morality in society, and to the flouting or even the abrogation of God’s law. This may help us to understand the current troubles in such diverse places as Ethiopian Eritrea, Indian Kashmir, Chinese Sinkiang, and Yugoslav Kossovo, in all of which Muslim populations are ruled by non-Muslim governments. It may also explain why spokesmen for the new Muslim minorities in Western Europe demand for Islam a degree of legal protection which those countries no longer give to Christianity and have never given to Judaism. Nor, of course, did the governments of the countries of origin of these Muslim spokesmen ever accord such protection to religions other than their own. In their perception, there is no contradiction in these attitudes. The true faith, based on God’s final revelation, must be protected from insult and abuse; other faiths, being either false or incomplete, have no right to any such protection.“[/quote]
So if you wonder why Muslims make no effort to reconcile their hypocrisy of protesting the Danish cartoons while publishing vile cartoons of other religions, the answer is for Muslims there is no hypocrisy to reconcile. Islam is right and everything else is wrong. Therefore, it is completely right to spew hatred of other religions, which are false of course and so deserve contempt, while demanding that everyone respect the one true religion, Islam. This is the mindset of narrow-minded barbarians.
The Muslims’ attempts to impose their religion on the West goes against the Western aversion to legislating religion. This is the point of collision of this clash of cultures. Our governments are out of the religion business while theirs are still in, much to their detriment. Islam, believing it already has all the answers, rejects all ideas from the outside and so stunts intellectual growth that is spawned by the free examination of ideas and cross-pollenization of intellect from the outside.
Lewis cites a letter from US President John Tyler from 1843 which argues for religious and intellectual freedom:
[quote]”The United States have adventured upon a great and noble experiment, which is believed to have been hazarded in the absence of all previous precedentâ€â€Âthat of total separation of Church and State. No religious establishment by law exists among us. The conscience is left free from all restraint and each is permitted to worship his Maker after his own judgement. The offices of the Government are open alike to all. No tithes are levied to support an established Hierarchy, nor is the fallible judgement of man set up as the sure and infallible creed of faith. The Mahommedan, if he will to come among us would have the privilege guaranteed to him by the constitution to worship according to the Koran; and the East Indian might erect a shrine to Brahma if it so pleased him. Such is the spirit of toleration inculcated by our political Institutions…. The Hebrew persecuted and down trodden in other regions takes up his abode among us with none to make him afraid…. and the Aegis of the Government is over him to defend and protect him. Such is the great experiment which we have tried, and such are the happy fruits which have resulted from it; our system of free government would be imperfect without it.
The body may be oppressed and manacled and yet survive; but if the mind of man be fettered, its energies and faculties perish, and what remains is of the earth, earthly. Mind should be free as the light or as the air.”[/quote]
Our minds will not be as free as the light or the air if we allow the bigoted and intolerant Islam to control them through threats and violence, as Muslims are attempting to do in their Cartoon Jihad.
Steve
Re(1): If Islam is peaceful, who or what’s responsible for all the violence?
Thanks for the link– it actually [b]proved [/b]my point, as the website says:
[quote]While the community does not have a permanent synagogue building, the community does maintain a small Jewish cemetery.[/quote]
As you can see, the reason no synagogues are burned, is because there aren’t any. If there aren’t any ‘permanent buildings’ than I guess the writer meant that they practise their faith in an unmarked house.
My head is not ‘in my ass’ Mahmood– this was from observation. Remember the unrest where youths were stopping cars on overpasses looking for westerners? They weren’t there to dance. This was the same time they molotov’d the US embassy, then trashed the McDonald’s across the street.
Another web site that you pointed me to: http://www.haruth.com/JewsBahrain.html
States that their synagogue was ‘raided’ in 1948, but that they weren’t Bahraini, but foreigners. Obviously ‘tolerant’ muslims– regardless of which country they came from.
I’ve known for years that there were Jews in Bahrain– the problem is, they are mostly in hiding and do not advertise their faith.
Moron? Don’t think so.
Re(1): The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
Exactly. It’s difficult for people to think outside their circumstances. Many Russian bureaucrats resist free market reforms because they seriously can not understand how an economy would work if there weren’t bureaucrats directing it in detail. They can’t understand how the producers of raw materials would know what and how much to produce for factories unless the state dictates it. Yet it is done in the US and the West every day to great effect.
Same thing goes for countries with a centrally controlled press. The people can’t understand that anyone can print anything he pleases and distribute it freely in America. So they try to fit it in their frame of reference, indulging in goofy conspiracy theories peddled from the mosque and media.
Steve
Re(2): If Islam is peaceful, who or what’s responsible for all the violence?
[quote]the problem is, they are mostly in hiding and do not advertise their faith.[/quote]
It is obvious you have never been in Bahrain.
Re: The Big Picture
Steve
I could not agree more. I think you make some excellent points.
The question for me is how wide spread is this Muslim hatred for those who do not subscribe to their faith? You asked somewhere earlier why arent all the peaceful reasonable Muslims out in the street protesting against the cartoon jihad and the embassy burnings. I wonder how much protesting I would do if there was a good chance that I might be arrested and beaten for expressing a dissenting opinion. In the last Canadian federal election we only managed to get about 65% of registered voters out to choose their next leader (I know that our choices were pretty lame but still). I dont think US voting #s are even that high. I realize that in the freer world complacency stems from comfort and is a sign that things are tolerable but I dont know that this applies to people who are repressed.
I do not mean to offend anyone but it seems to me that Religion in general has a tendancy to inhibit critical thinking. If sesame street had spewed idealogical rhetoric at me for years how open minded would or could I be. People are mostly all the same in the beginning.
Re(1): The Big Picture
[quote]Will: “The question for me is how wide spread is this Muslim hatred for those who do not subscribe to their faith? You asked somewhere earlier why arent all the peaceful reasonable Muslims out in the street protesting against the cartoon jihad and the embassy burnings. I wonder how much protesting I would do if there was a good chance that I might be arrested and beaten for expressing a dissenting opinion.”[/quote]
Will, there is a substantial Muslim population in Canada. Are you telling me that Canadians would arrest and beat Muslims who protested against Islamic violence? What do you think the chances are that such a dissenting opinion would be punished in Canada? Just how much courage does it take to take a public stand against religious violence in Ottawa?
Likewise for the USA. I’m sure that the general population of America would be pleased to see Muslims take a public stand against Islamic terror. I don’t think they would be arrested nor beaten for expressing a dissenting opinion. In fact, you can organize a huge protest march full of dissenting opinions right here in Washington, march up to the White House, and call the President every filthy name that spews out of your head. The police will stand there and protect your right to say it. I’ve witnessed that very scene several times in the last few years in Washington, DC.
A local Muslim lawyer tried to organize a demonstration against Islamic terror here in Washington about a year ago. Only fifty people showed up. It was opposed by every Muslim organization. The lawyer said that the problem was that the local mosque leaders supported the ultimate goal of the terrorists, a sharia state, though not necessarily their violent approach.
The silence of the Muslim world with regard to Islamic violence is consent. When you see no meaningful action by the Muslim world against Islamic violence, you can not help but come to the conclusion that the overwhelming majority of Muslims quietly support it.
Steve
The Danish Cartoons, the votes are in
The vast majority of Muslims around the world are poorly educated, if they have received any education at all.
Into these uneducated minds clerics and leaders alike pour inflamatory ideas, that because of the persons piety, and maybe stupidity, they act on.
Flag burnings, McDonalds attacks, Dane hating etc, are all typical of poorly educated people doing what they are instructed to do. The concept of free speech is utterly alien to them.
Also, in Islam, everything is preordained or ‘written
http://mohammad.islamway.com/
🙂
Now all twelve Danish cartoonists are in hiding from Muslim assassins. Now that the Muslims can not find them to kill them, twelve young Muslim men tried to get to one of the cartoonist’s daughters at school. Fortunately, she was not there.
Let me note here my complete contempt for Muslim thugs who want their religion to reign supreme by threatening the daughters of cartoonists. It confirms to me that Islam is a religion of barbarians.
However, the silver lining of the cartoon jihad has been the quiet but profound change in public perception of Islam in the West. Even the Left can not make the case that Muslim rage is due to some Western cause. Everybody has come to the belated conclusion that Muslim rage is irrational and does not spring from legitimate grounds. The West is reaching a tipping point, thanks to the cartoons, where the majority of Westerners of all political persuasions realize that radical Muslims hate the West because their own wrongheaded and backward culture. There has been a big quiet shift in attitude which can be seen not in what was said but by the lack of all the things that are usually said.
Steve
And you continue to confirm what an utter cretin you are. You have nothing to spread but hate for Islam and Muslims with your sweeping generalisations.
I think we all have read your “thoughts” quite clearly that you do not need to repeat them here again.
I most certainly am fed up with them and say to you quite clearly that if you don’t have anything constructive to say, then you’re not welcome here.