SilverGirl has a fantastic initiative going that females only might be interested in. Check it out and good luck, I fully support you in this initiative!
Girls Only!
Mahmood's Den
An Arab man's attempt at bridging the cultural gap and trying to make a difference. Failing a lot. Succeeding once in a while.
Comments
It seems like people are taking this the wrong way (judging from the comments on the entry,) so I would just like to clarify here as well that the reason why a lot of female bloggers don’t show up to the average bloggers’ meetings is not because we don’t want to. It’s because a lot of us can’t, for various reasons. One is that a lot of the new bloggers are young, who have strict families that don’t always allow them to attend such mixed gatherings.
More than that, it is also often uncomfortable and uneasy for us female bloggers to attend these groups if we feel like we will be part of a minority. Sometimes I am in Bahrain at the times of these gatherings but don’t attend them because I fear of being the only female there. It’s not a sexist thing, it’s a comfort thing. If the guys went to an all-girls party they would also feel uneasy and out of place, it’s normal.
Secondly my experience has always been meeting people in small doses, and that helps me get closer to them. All the female Bahraini bloggers I know very well are those that I have met individually and chatted with face-to-face on several different occassions. I feel that if we take this step forward, and just introduce an all-females one, we could definitely take the other step and merge these gatherings together into a bigger one. A lot of us are shy, too, so meeting a smaller and more focused group is something we will more likely show up to. This is just a way for us to find our place!
I personally don’t see the point.
Why do women feel uncomfortable around men? What’s so scary about them? Why do they have to discuss things in private with their “own kind�
Sorry if I sound negative, I’m simply against gender-segregation.. there’s nothing like doing things naturally..
That’s fair enough Esra’a. The issue is to strengthen the blogging scene and share experiences. Further, there is no reason for there to be just one exclusive gathering, if it would serve the purpose to have more than one then so be it.
As far as I am concerned, these gatherings are first and foremost to get to know each other, and you cannot do that if you don’t feel comfortable.
So all power to the girls’ gathering! If any of the girls would like to join us in the other gathering, then you would be more than welcome to do so.
Amal,
There is nothing with men. This meeting is not a statement against men, either. But not all women are as liberal as you are – the somewhat conservative type with traditional families who are a bit uptight about these things will frown upon the idea of you meeting stranger men that you met on the internet, the discomfort isn’t there with a women’s only meeting. People have their reasons. You may not see or understand them but they are there, and I am one of those.
And don’t think it’s anything largely societal – in the US, I know that they do have these types of meetings as well, and no it isn’t the gossipy feminist type either. What’s so wrong with it? It’s not a gender war! It’s a preference, for the sake of comfort.
Just like you don’t see the point of this, we don’t see the point of people making a big deal about it. It’s an idea, expressed and supported by a group of women, if you don’t like it, don’t show up! It’s not a revolution, 5 women are going to meet up at some cafe and discuss things they would otherwise not be able to discuss amongst men, who, I just have to add, are sometimes dominant in political and religious discussions. Here we will be able to express ourselves, instead of being shy and quiet. When I met Safia I talked non-stop about things I strongly believe in, when I met the male bloggers I was very shy and self-censored. I just couldn’t do it, not for the first time anyways.
Esra’a,
I realize why and how many people think this way and prefer such gatherings.. I’m not against the audience themselves; rather I’m against the principal.
The problem is that gender segregation reflects so many other things. This is more than a mere gathering. The fact that makes women coy and shy around men says a lot; it reflects inner fear from judgment and labeling, it shows how masculine most societies on Earth are (btw, me being liberal has nothing to do with the US), it allows domination of one sex and encourages it.
This is not about me attending the meeting or not. I’m not talking from a feminist prospective. I’m simply trying to raise a simple point: gender segregation, in my opinion, is unhealthy and unnatural.
There is nothing scary about men and I think it is normal for any female to feel more comfortable and open with other females. This is also applicable to men.
Now I don’t understand why this gathering turned to be a sexism issue!
I want to thank Silver for taking the initiave, we all thought of it but she is the only one who had the courage to speak about it. And Mahmood .. thanks for your continuous support.
This happens in every society – when I went to Sweden, one of the most liberal countries in the world, there were women’s only lectures. That means women wanted to talk about things that they can’t around men – do you tell everything to your guy friends? If so, well, most women would rather not, especially not to complete strangers who can’t relate.
I’m not shy or scared of men, and many women aren’t. When I met the male bloggers in Bahrain, seperately, I was nothing but comfortable and relaxed. We could talk about anything – be it politics or religion – freely, but I can’t do that in a male-dominant meeting. You can’t expect women to be this comfortable if you don’t encourage them to ATTEND these gatherings and thus gradually, move forward to the next step.
Before meeting the male bloggers, I met the female ones.
That is a step I had to take, and it reassured me and made me stronger and more secure in my opinions and beliefs.
So it is a step. A really good one, at that. I am confident that more and more women are going to show up to these blogger meetings mainly because they would know their place. It’s that way with me, and I’m sure with many other friends of mine who’d rather do the same thing.
I don’t feel like getting involved in an argument which could go around and around for the rest of our good lives. Disregarding the fact that I am the one who introduced the idea which naturally makes me a supporter of it, I think both Esraá and Butterfly have strong points backing up the idea. I would see them winning the argument even if I was an outsider.
Amal,
It’s a very cute principal tara if stated as follows:
“The girls want to have their own meeting and set its flavour accordingly.”
It’s ugly if you see the principle this way:
“The sheepish girls who don’t can’t be themselves around men are having their own get-together.”
In short, in some cases, segregation is natural, fun, postive, desired and is not a sign of weakness!
:happy:
I insist that you join us. Bs 7ata if you don’t, I’ll get to know you anyway in the coming GENERAL meeting. 😉
Esra’a: well said!
Sorry, I still disagree. Looks like this discussion lacks the common ground to keep it running.
I stick to what I said, and wish you gals good luck. I hope it turns out to be fruitful 🙂
Amal, you can disagree, but I would like to see a refutation as well. I still do not understand how this will only add to a gender gap. This is a step that strict girls (religiously or through familial pressure) have to take. These girls attending the female gatherings, I assure you, will most likely attend the mixed gatherings in due time. All they have to do is take a few steps through silveroo’s initiative.
You don’t have to reply, though it would be nice to see this challenged further. I see way more pros than cons.
Hmmm, I have to say I’m a bit bemused at this debate, as interesting as it is. But just to drop in another perspective, from a European woman who is totally used to spending time with men, and who faces no social restrictions: spending time with other women is just fun! What’s the big deal?
By the way, Esra’a:
I don’t know what ‘gossipy feminist’ meetings are, and I don’t know why feminism is something people have to make excuses about – and many men are feminists, too!
And Amal:
I would say that certain kinds of single-sex gatherings are not only totally natural, but also empowering! (And let’s not forget fun…)
Hmm, sorry, you lost me there. What feminism and what excuses? I’m saying that people shouldn’t assume that when girls get together, it’s about gossip or a tactic of feminist ideologies. This was an implication in the other thread this was discussed in (the post Mahmood linked to.)
men will be dominant if women will be shy and quiet
i am sorry, but although i understand that any group of people can choose to meet anyone they wish, and although i understand that for some people small steps are necessary before they graduate to bigger ones, especially if they have to abide by their families’ strict rules, and although i enjoy all girls night with my FRIENDS who i have lots in common with, i cannot for the life of me understand why one would be expected to have stuff in common with another person simply because of their gender (race/religion), unless they the topic of conversation is the gender (race/religion)itself, discrimination, empowerment, challenges facing women (race/religion), etc.,
in the same way as i could understand any group who felt discriminated against might feel they share this discrimination and want to discuss ways to overcome it.
otherwise the idea of a female (black/religious) only anything, although prevalent in our society, is just as sexist (racist/extremist) and discriminatory as a male only thing. which is what i think amal was saying.
not true. please don’t speak for all women. sorry but this is where i have the problem. those women who feel that way will probably have trouble feeling equal until they look beyond gender and see the person underneath. until then, they will never feel liberated.
meanwhile, enjoy your outing.. networking is the good thing that can come out of it.
I am happy that this gathering will take place and thats it. Why we should argue about everyhting and anything?
Whoever want to join they are welcome, who don’t also its their right and they will miss the fun 😉
I added a comment hours ago and I still can’t find it in the thread!
:pinch:
I can’t bother to re-write what I said because:
1- I’ll be repeating the wisdom of Butterfly and Esra’a.
2- This argument “ashkara” has no end!
3- We’ll meet up anyway.. No harm intended!
😎
CWT
I wish if you can join this gathering, reading your Intelligent / insightful comments made me very eager to meet you.
Sigh. It’s a step. Women will always be shy and dominant if they don’t take the steps required to speak their minds, and to do that, they must first do so in a comfortable environment. Thus this is a positive step forward, not the other way around. Ya3ni in other words, many women will speak more freely and securely if they were more used to it, and to get used to it they must do it in the manner in which they first see fit.
Shdakhal racism and this kharabee6? It’s a meeting. Not a cult.
Hahah I can’t believe it went this war.
I meant to say “this far…” hooray for typos.
LOL Esra’a. Thats because it turned to WAR .. you must have been thinking of this word when you typed your comments .. hehhe
OK, sorry Esra’a, I was probably reading too much into your comment and others that people had made. Butterfly, I completely agree, and I’m looking forward to it!
(Just to be clear, my response just now was to Esra’a in comment 12, and butterfly in comment 14)
Haha if all the female Bahrainis united against a common enemy.. that would be quite a war. We are very ill-tempered. And the generation before us is even worse.
Slighty off-topic but I must add this to support the above ‘generalization’…
When you crash your car into a woman’s, it’s the end of the world. With the guy, a lot of the time, 3adi, they’re used to it, or they understand and reason with you. My experience with the female drivers is horrible. And it was always their fault, but I was too shy to admit it. “Sa7 sa7 sorry I’m wrong… but…. no I mean, okay. It was my lain, though. No you’re right… but if the police asks… yes you can do the talking.”
I don’t understand why many of them turn into she-hulks. And notice how dramatic they get. “But what about the kids, how will I feed them? Who will get them from school? What about my husband? Oh no, he will return to see me gone! Look at what you’ve done! Are you happy? Oh hoooo shasawee a7eeen… pfff… KILA MINICH INTAY!” It’s a freakin’ tire. They act like I burried them alive.
Also, just to correct this other silly mistake of mine:
I’m a tard. I meant to say not dominant. What’s the opposite of dominant? That’s what I meant.
Esraa,
just drawing parallel lines..
it may be a defense mechanism, a sort of “attack before you are attacked”? usually an indication of insecurity or lack of confidence.
i do admit however to turning into a hulkette myself, when someone double parks behind my car or blocks my garage or meanders down a no-lane and expects to slide in front of my car when i have been in the queue for a while. i turn green!
it sounds like you have been in many scrapes.. are you a road menace? should we stay home?
submissive. i didn’t even notice the word. probably not exactly the word you wanted either. maybe reserved? the thing is when someone is quiet, it gives the impression they have nothing to say, which leaves others to fill in the silence, with anything, even nonsense.. which is fine if they really have nothing to say, but if they do, it’s a shame..
there are two ways to learn to swim, one is to feel the temperature, get your feet wet, sit on the edge, slide in with floaters, then an armband in the shallow, tread water, work your way to the deep end slowly while learning the strokes…. ……………… you can stop after any of the above and decide not to go further because you are not comfortable or not confident.
the other way is to take a deep breath, close your eyes and jump in the deep with a lifeguard watching!
Butterfly,
thanx very much for the comment.
however, i am not a blogger but only a nosy (very nosy) person who is a frequent poster on this sight, so have a wonderful time.. and apologies for the nosiness
Honestly it is not my fault.. I live in an area where many angry women drive with hijabs covering half of their faces, and then sunglasses covering the other half. Sometimes, they even have a toddler or two (or 6 billion) hanging from their shoulder. I don’t know how they can multi-task. Oh wait, they can’t! They crash into me instead!
Can’t they get a bicycle or something? It’s always these types that cause the problem – and oh my – you will never see the end of it.
I can only imagine how they managed to get their license, with their instructors going, “okay, okay, that’s it, I’m done with you, mabrook, TAKE IT! GO AWAY!”
And then they drive around like blind chimps killing us sane ones, never admitting the fact that they are wrong. They bully everyone in sight. How can I stand up to that? I wish I could squirt them with water guns. My blood boils just thinking about them with a car! Urgh.
Maybe “oppressed?” I don’t know.
I agree with the rest of what you said, but if they do speak they will also be silenced. They don’t want to speak right away, I am totally against not speaking at all but I also totally understand it, because I’m like that. I speak more freely amongst men now but only because I went through the necessary steps to be able to do that without shying away entirely. I spoke to the people I was comfortable around first – and in many cases, these were the females.
Speaking to and with females is good but it would be abnormal if you were JUST capable of that. This is not the issue here. We are talking about bloggers – people who know that men also read their thoughts. Not just average women, but bloggers, who are already a few steps ahead in expressing their opinions or wanting to be heard. They blog for a reason, they like the discussions. Most of them, anyways. We can’t claim otherwise.
Many tried but came crawling upwards to where they started because of any humiliation. You will really need to be secure and well informed to be entirely comfortable with what you express and how you express it.
i do get what you are saying, but oppressed and silenced are cop-out excuses because they lay the blame on the other, the opressor, the silencer.
being so outspoken yourself, wouldn’t you say that you can only be oppressed/silenced if you allow yourself to be oppressed/silenced? in other words, poor women don’t speak because the big strong powerful men make them feel uncomfortable/mistreat them/don’t allow them to speak/make them feel as if they have nothing worthwhile to say….
i would say it would be so much more sensible if people just engaged their brain first and decided if what they would like to say is worthy of vocalized to the audience present and if so then go ahead.. and if not then not.. as long as one can defend one’s position, and is open to other viewpoints and is willing to shift position if one becomes enlightened by some new information, and to end the discussion when it is clear that it is going nowhere, what difference does it make who the audience is?
again, i do understand your point, i simply feel that if one has educated oneself on whatever one is going to have an opinion about, then one will be confident.. we have to actively remove this thing of seeing people as men and women, as old and young, as “ihna u hum” and communicate as human beings to each other.
sadly, among the majority of university aged students in our country, it seems to be going the other way, with self-imposed segregation, much more so than a decade ago, much much more than two decades ago.. to the extent that many of them do not communicate with each other at all and therefore don’t know how to when the need arises.
for some reason (many unjustified reasons actually), many men are confident even if they have zero to offer, and many women are choosing to take a step back and let men take the lead, even if the men are younger/less educated/less intelligent/lower position to them. this sets a bad example for their daughters, who also grow up believing they are second-class, reinforcing those values and making it such that they too have to overcome the hurdles all over again..
look at school results, girls achieve better results. instead of celebrating that fact and using it to gain confidence, many justify it by saying it is because girls study more/spend more time at home/ etc. why does there have to be a reason?
we all know women are better at multi-tasking.. which is the main skill that will be required in the jobs of the future, and should be celebrated.
some of us have done well in school, some of us have done well at work (despite resistance), some of us have done well at home (bringing up a decent future generation), some of us have done well in politics, some of us are superwomen. it is about time some women stop constantly proving themselves as if they were missing something vital, or taking the short cut by exploiting their femininity in a way that reinforces the stereotypes (i’m a poor helpless hapless female, please help me you big hunk of man) and just get on with it.. and think of themselves as persons instead of women. once she stops trying to prove herself and seeking approval, only then will she be taken seriously.
(of course, i am not talking about being in a relationship between a man and a woman where obviously gender is paramount)
are you kidding? please…you don’t mean that.. they should just stay home, so the rest of us can breathe easier!! can you imagine the reaction if all women got on their bikes and tandems and started pedalling??!!
Well this is not what I mean, Bahraini women are hardly oppressed, that word applies in harsher cases like Afghanistan or Somalia. If you are unable to do anything about your status as the oppressed, then that is where the word truly applies, but when you can do much about it, such as in our more progressed society in Bahrain, then yes, I would agree that that is not oppression but rather…. what is the word! Let’s make something up soon because this is driving me nuts. We need a word.
I agree – but many, women would not. I think our mentalities are somewhat liberal, we gained it through the type of education we received or are receiving, and through our lifestyles, and how we were socialized. I assure you, that many women will not feel this way. Many of my friends have some of the most backwards mentalities. I sometimes cannot believe that we have people thinking in such ways in Bahrain. My opinions are so different that they consider me “radical.” One of these girls started a livejournal, and began expressing her ideas, so I felt “wow, what a step forward!” but her journal was set to ‘private’ and no one can be exposed to her thoughts, so I figured, what the hell is wrong with this person? Could she be that paranoid?
But now at university, she is one of the most outspoken students, an editor of a newsletter, etc. She is involved more, and she tells me it has much to do with her “secret blog” that helped her organize and re-evaluate her thoughts. She is much stronger, much more informed now than ever, and much easier to communicate with. She loves debating and she does that often with our male friends – she was never capable of even saying “hello” to them without feeling guilty before, she was THAT different. So she came very far (yes, this is me bragging about friends I am proud of.)
A lot of the people here are reacting as if these types of women should come out of nowhere, and just say “hi guys, I don’t know you, and I’m not comfortable with being here because I am not used to this type of mixture but what’s up, what do you think about politics”? That’s not going to work, they need a place to go beforehand. This female group sets that kind of comfort, it’s a beginning. It’s not the beginning of a dilemma, quite the opposite, it’s the beginning of something great – that these women are voicing their opinions. No matter where, to whom, or to what, they could be speaking to a wall, like my friend did with that unknown blog of hers, that’s still expression, and that’s just what they need to gain the confidence that they desire to be introduced to the “real” thing. Real, effective, or influential communication.
A lot of the people that I see attending the blogger’s gatherings are people well-travelled… people who studied abroad, people used to this liberal mentality and the mixture, but not everyone is like that. And it’s not fair to assume that they should be like that or else they are backwards (even though I practically did that in the beginning of the comment, it’s because I’m biased due to how I was raised. I do consider it backwards, that does not mean it’s factually wrong.) I admit at least that it is not fair to do that.
We are talking about intelligent, creative, and well-read women, who are not powerless but want to feel empowered, and as Mahmood said this is indeed empowering. Let them gain the confidence that they desire through this very step, and see the great things that can ensue from it. It can go very far, it’s very rare that well-spoken women amongst a particular group will stay silent in other social gatherings, they will be too used to speaking their minds.
I was like that as well here in college (Switzerland), I never said a word when I was a part of the “minority Arabs” who were constantly mocked for their belief systems. We gathered together, as an Arab group, discussed things we needed to do to fix our reputation – and we did this for many weeks. So in your eyes we could be isolating ourselves and thus creating this gap between Arabs and the “others,” much like the gap between men and women, but after we broke out and starting talking out loud, people listened. And we loved it that they listened, so we spoke louder, and now we are one of the strongest groups in this institution. It’s exactly what I see this female’s gathering turning into. It’s a start to what could be outstanding results (depending on how they use the group.)
There is no reason. They have every right to step up and do something about it, but consider the type of women I discussed earlier. Their reasons are many, and they can only tackle them one at a time.
The real answer – curfews. Lock them up in certain hours so us sane ones can do our work without anyone driving into our cars and then insisting that it’s your fault even when all the witnesses are on your side.
Now if they had bikes…
I wouldn’t mind running them over.
Obviously I didn’t mean that. But if I did, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Then yell “mwahahah ma3asalamaaaaaa.”
I’d really like to do that. I bet their husbands would thank me.
Ladies … Ladies … please….
hehe – no need to get all ansy and bent out of shape eh?
Come… let all sit on the couch together… :biggrin:
-Ibn
Esra
speaking of bikes, i know a girl whose dream it was to ride a bike. can you imagine that ?? (i don’t mean to learn to ride a bike, she already knows how to) (which is more than i can claim, by the way, but that’s besides the point)
well i never! look who the cat dragged in?
you are SO FUNny!!
Ibn, where have you been?! you have definitely been missed. exams, i presume?? … i would recognize that hehe anywhere (!!) p.s. the “carolling” went great as planned. has it been that long?
OOORRRR? their husbands are the same!!!!
like the moron who insisted on sliding next to me and another car in a two-lane road last night. I’d been in the line for fifteen bloody minutes and the cool cucumber just slides in there without so much as a by your leave, or a look of question, nothing.. the idiot also had a little girl of about three bouncing on her mum’s lap in the front seat and after me honking about twenty times (i am not exaggerating) without him even glancing over i finally had to let him through to save my car (who has one foot in the grave already anyway, bless her)
livid doesn’t begin to describe how i felt.
maybe he could ride a bike and you can run him over?
please? YEAY!
and mahmood,
(i notice you are laying low??!! funny man!)
please stop posting interesting stuff and write about flowers and trees. i need to focus on my project for just a little while longer and this is too distracting!!
i cant wait to start my own blog…i think…??? maybe…
I will I will I will! But this is much more fun :devil:
Well, bahrainblogs.org welcomes you, or any other platform you choose, just do!
That’s it, I’ve had it with Akismet. I’ll be looking for an alternative Spam fighting plugin immediately. There have been a lot of “false positives” lately and it’s not fair on people, but we have to thank Batelco for this crap as it decided to canvass the whole of Bahrain on the same IP address. Whose brainfart was that I wonder?
Sorry about that SilverGirl, your original comment is here and the followup you entered later appears here.
She can take a bike tour through Qatar. They’re building a 30km cycling path. Her dream may come true if she moves next door (that leaves more oxygen for the rest of us – so it’s a win/win situation.)
Let’s all do a bike gathering. We all sit around and basically talk about bikes, their many features, and what we benefit from riding them.
No guys allowed! GO GO GIRLZ POWAR!!11
Gladly! We can start a business with this, you know. Bike-runners. I can just see it on GDN.
“Angry female nay-sayers take over Bahrain’s roads with bikes. They win hearts by saving lives, through running over those they don’t approve of. Group funded and supported by Iran and Syria. Amnesty considers this a violation of international law – though the female riders claim to be doing their God-given job by maintaining the balance and making sure that only the fit survive. Its founders are strong believers of the Darwinism theory. 5,000 bikes were ordered last night. Punk kids with fancy cars and stressed house wives are encouraged to look out as they are usually the victims.”
If you get a donation drive going, let me know, I shall be the first to contribute! :w00t:
are tricycles aloud?
i have given up attempting to master the complicated art and science of using bicycle breaks! (i know, i know, sad, huh)
mahmood, i heard that!
Heh, well, I miss you too CWT! 🙂
Actually, the guilty culprit this time around is not exams, but umm, how shall we say, … “corporate downsizing”. You see, the company I worked for decided that the technology we were working on was “too far ahead of its time”, and layed off the entire division , which included of course, yours truly.
Meaning Ibn had to quickly buy a new suit, interview for jobs, while simultaneously taking two classes.
Luckily however, as of last week, I have found a great new job, without having to resort to my Plan C, last-line-of-defence idea as a moonlighting pole dancer… just kidding of course … about the moonlighting part – its actually in the day time. :tongue:
Seriously though, although still heavily tied up until the end of April, its great to be back!
-Ibn
Well despite the arguments and disagreements.. I just hope everyone gets the initiative to hold back and just take this idea to heart, and find it a nice all-girlie gathering to get to know each other well. We live in a semi-closed society and we need to cater to the other bloggers needs when the case comes to blogger-etts from conservative families..
In my opinion, I find it a blast just hanging around with the girls and chitt-chatting away 🙂
Count me in Mahmood and Silver! 😉
Ibn,
well that’s one for the books. it’s usually the other way around!
congrats on the new job. good luck with it. glad you didn’t have to resort to the daytime pole dancing, although that would definitely have spiced up your resume some!
ohhhhh
what is this womens and mens ohhhhhhhh
all talking about others see your self and decide what to do …
not talking only …
and i advice any girl want to success in her life to be intelligence and sensitive with resolute and quick in her life ….
more girls canot be as i said
What on earth? A simple idea for an all female blog meeting turns into a plethora of strange reactions. Every success is what I say. I really don’t understand why the strange comments. BUT, it does seem to underline why a female only meeting is a good idea.