Rubber bullets don’t inflict enough pain, it seems, so now riot control police in Bahrain have started using live ammunition instead. Much more effective of course, especially if the intent is to kill rather than merely control:
«الأهاليسمعوا صوتا لإطلاق النار ÙÂاتصلوا بيوبعد ØÂضوريإلى المنطقة أكد ليرجال الأمنأنهم اطلقوا 3 رصاصات ØÂية بعد قيام ملثمينمجهولينبرمي3 عبوات ØÂارقة (مولوتوÙÂ) على سيارة الأمناصاب اثنينمنها السيارة بينما أصاب الثالث مكيÙÂا لأØÂد المنازل»
The citizens heard the sound of live bullets so they called me. After I arrived in the area the security forces confirmed to me that they fired three live shots after unknown balaclavad persons have thrown three Molotov cocktails at the police car of which two contacted the car and one an air conditioning unit in one of the houses [nearby].
There surely is a better way to apprehend criminals who endanger the lives of law enforcers, but using live ammunition in crowded neighbourhood is not one of them I don’t think.
Comments
Has there been some big change?
The police must feel alot more threatened.
Scarey sounds like the start of a slippery slope.
Ugh!
I believe it all comes down to education at home, society, a long summer ahead with nothing else to do… So here you go, this is my friends is the new generation of 15-18 year olds who feel left out of the political process in change that is happening, and they are obviously frustrated about something or another, and what they do attracts attention. However, what they don’t realize is that they harm nobody but themselves, and in the long run “the whole lot of us”. This is where the true and functional role of the elected local councilor. Did he not get where he is because of their vote?? Well sort out their problems and address their concerns. Meet with the parents, get involved or otherwise without a doubt we are yet to experience another long summer with a lot of unhappy people, and many unanswered questions..
Happy Holidays 😮
unknown balaclavad persons have thrown three Molotov cocktails at the police car
People who throw molotov cocktails are doing so with the intent of killing people. They should be shot, if possible, with live ammunition. Not runner bullets. That’s attempted murder, at best. If I heard of American police using rubber bullets on somebody who was in the process of trying to commit murder I’d be calling for somebody to lose their job.
I’d be complaining that they missed, and need better marksmanship training.
what do you expect? someone throws molotovs, what do you think should be done with them? the kids should know that these are weapons they are throwing, not toys.
“…., but using live ammunition in crowded neighbourhood is not one of them I don’t think.”
But throwing molotovs in crowded neighborhoods have become an accepted way of protest?
Of course not!
That is why I call those perpetrating violence specifically criminals. I do not and will not condone their use of violence at all. There are other ways in resolving disputes and those should be explored.
However, it seems that the riot police and these “demonstrators” have made it their weekend jolly to go against each other and sooner or later we will have collateral damage that we do not want nor can we accept.
The violent trouble makers (on both sides) should be dealt with within the law. People who incite them to resort to violence should also be dealt with in a similar fashion.
In all cases, Bahrain does not need a further escalation of violence, we really don’t. Using live bullets is upping the game unnecessarily, but this is – to me – less dangerous than the continuous game of apprehension, imprisonment and then arbitrary release by the king. It is not setting a precedent other than “we’ll be released soon and we’ll get back to our usual way of life.”
Application of the law is lacking, for sure; but you cannot compensate for that by using live ammunition.
So much for the American way. We’ve seen
what it does all over the world. Are these
methods working in Iraq? Your own inner
cities?
You obviously know nothing about Bahrain.
The police forces here have a history of
atrocities and human rights abuses which
they and the citizens here are all having
trouble getting over. Live ammunition is
not the solution here and now – at all.
Especially when the trouble is partially
ethnic/sectarian and the molotov-throwers
are symptomatic of a deeper malaise.
I believe the new King does care, and does
want to see a better solution than bloody
live ammunition. We are not at the stage
where we have to shoot rioting civilians
dead. This is Bahrain – it is not the Gaza
strip. We can do better, and if John-Wayne
fetishists like you can shut up for for a
little while, we will do better.
Post #7 just burned Craig big time hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
I just hope live ammunition does not come into affect. Because it will only make something that is already bad, a lot more worse than imaginable.
From now on, always drive in your cars with some onions in hand.
anonymous says:
“Live ammunition is not the solution here and now – at all.
Especially when the trouble is partially ethnic/sectarian and the molotov-throwers are symptomatic of a deeper malaise.â€Â
I agree – it would be better not to fire live ammunition in a crowded area where innocent bystanders might be wounded or killed… but in some situations, it’s the only choice – the lesser of two evils.
For example, if your wife, 2.9 children (current birth rate per woman in Bahrain), mother, sister and uncle are in an automobile driving up the street where disgruntled demonstrators are throwing Molotov cocktails at passing vehicles, and you have two weapons at your disposal – one with rubber bullets (notoriously ineffectual for stopping someone intent on using lethal force), and the other with live ammunition, what would you use? How about if they’re armed with more dangerous weapons, automatic rifles, or they’re suicide bombers, wrapped in explosives, marching toward a crowd of shoppers outside a mall where your family is walking? Are you going to opt for rubber bullets in that case also?
You do realize we are speaking of Bahrain here, and not the USA. The deadliest weapon anyone could possess is a sword. Suicide bombers? Please, get real. Have you ever been to Bahrain?
And even if he was wrapped in explosives, how the hell are you going to tell? Will there be special forces and snipers all over the country surveiling every move of every person? They will use x-ray binoculars to see what the man hides under his clothes? A suicide bomber will not walk around with his explosives exposed for all to see.
In Bahrain, shoot just one rubber bullet, and they will all disperse, and just keep burning tyres and garbage bins, and they cannot do anymore.
Jay, that scenario is not valid in Bahrain. Gun ownership is prohibited. Explosives are very tightly controlled, etc.
The fear really is the escalation of arson, but when you compare what is actually happening here to what happened in France after the recent elections, or at virtually any World Trade meeting it would be classified as kids’ play. Although bad, but putting it into perspective, it’s not that bad.
Hence, there is a very real and good chance of controlling it now before it escalates further. And all it really takes is that both parties occasionally listen.
its just a matter of time … there have already been two murders in the last year with a gunshot, the last one at BJ’s has not yet been solved.
Yes, you could be right, and it is rather scary.
This country is unravelling at more places than one.
Anonymous German,
So much for the American way. We’ve seen
what it does all over the world. Are these
methods working in Iraq? Your own inner
cities?
It’s not the “American Way” – it’s the law and order way. Do you want to live in an orderly society, or do you want to live in Iraq?
I guarantee you that any policeman who saw somebody throwing or about to throw a Molotov Cocktail in the United States would shoot him dead. If you’d rather let people get away with murder, more power to you. No matter to me. I only commented on this post because it seemed so bizarre.
You obviously know nothing about Bahrain.
What does that have to do with anything?
The police forces here have a history of
atrocities and human rights abuses which
they and the citizens here are all having
trouble getting over.
Again, what does that have to do with anything? If I decide I don’t like Arabs and I think my grievances are sufficient, can I come to Bahrain and throw Molotov Cocktails at Bahrainis? Would that be OK with you? You wouldn’t want your police to do anything about it?
Live ammunition is
not the solution here and now – at all.
But of course, it is. It appears the perpetrators got away. They should have been killed. Then, there wouldn’t be any chance of them doing it again, would there?
Especially when the trouble is partially
ethnic/sectarian and the molotov-throwers
are symptomatic of a deeper malaise.
Well, then… fix that… but in the meantime, people who are attempting to commit murder should be stopped. With lethal force.
I believe the new King does care, and does
want to see a better solution than bloody
live ammunition. We are not at the stage
where we have to shoot rioting civilians
dead.
Again, throwing molotov cocktails is not “rioting” – it’s attempted murder.
This is Bahrain – it is not the Gaza
strip. We can do better, and if John-Wayne
fetishists like you can shut up for for a
little while, we will do better.
Fuck you, too.
Salmon,
You do realize we are speaking of Bahrain here, and not the USA. The deadliest weapon anyone could possess is a sword.
Or a Molotov Cocktail, perhaps? How about when they start using 5 gallon containers filled with Gas, instead of bottles? That should be fun, huh?
Mahmood,
it’s not that bad.
Molotov cocktails, not that bad? Have you ever been covered with burning gasoline? That kills people – very slowly and very painfully. It’s pretty bad.
I’ll stop commenting on this, no matter how much I get “burned” by people who don’t understand basic concepts of law, and the human right of self defense. I say again, in parting, the position of Bahrainis on this is bizarre. And troubling. What do you have police for, if they aren’t supposed to do their job?
Craig, to begin with, you know nothing about our culture, or our way of life in Bahrain, until you have lived in Bahrain.
Whats wrong with Iraq? Sadly enough, it was your country that made it the way it is today. Maybe you missed out on that point.
And the name is Salman 😉 learn to read properly.
In your country, the white man sells guns, makes them, its OK. If a black rapper says guns in one of his songs, a congressional hearing is summoned to have him dealt with. Interesting eh?
How about if
How about if
This image shows where your mind is. You are
of no use to us here. What are you doing
commenting on this blog if you know nothing
about Bahrain?
Don’t patronise us, you crackerboy fuckwit.
You have no expertise. Everywhere you take
your “law and order” in the world it turns
into a disaster area. Butt out of what you
don’t understand and go back to high school
if you are not still there.
Oh, and it’s “Salman” with an ‘a’. Your
lack of observation and attention to
detail can probably be seen in other areas
of your life. And here you are lecturing
the dark-skinned people. Go clean up your
own country before you criticize this one
you fumbling hypocrite. Go pull your lonely
brain cell out of your oh-so-talkative anus
and leave real people to discuss real
without the benefit of your enlightened
discourse.
Now sod off and evolve.
Should have been “.. and discuss real issues ..” Never mind, eh? He probably
didn’t read that far.
That’s not very reassuring, Salman. People
have already been held up and robbed at
sword-point here, you know.
Yes, but are swords going to do you any good in a riot? Are you going to charge at a bunch of men armed with rubber bullets that will bruise every bone in the front of your body as you come charging at them?
Perhaps they should issue the Bahraini Police officers rubber bullets and loosen the “rules of engagement.” If some of these punks go home with large black and blue bruises perhaps they won’t be as eager to throw off molotov cocktails.
If some punks are really commited and ready to die for their beliefs, it doesn’t matter what the police use.
So it’s ok for these thugs to throw molotovs “with the intent to kill” but when police come and defend themselves, even with live ammunition, it’s not ok? Violence is NOT the answer to anything but it certainly is also not acceptable to be one sided, either abolish it altogether or stop whining.
Plus what do 15 year olds have to be frustrated about if it weren’t their parents enticing them against others, telling them it’s okay to hurt others, it’s your right to go and burn any policeman as they are the devil.
craig the comments in this blog has been one sided in this issue … dont waste ur time … for some ppl here rioters have all the rights to do what ever they want to do …and police should only watch and drink tea… viva la bahrain ….
May I ask everyone to not take things too personally, those attacks do nothing but to kill the topic and no further polite and thoughtful comments can be entered.
I know it is a contentious issue, but try to rise above personalising it so that we can calmly discuss this issue and suggest alternatives if we cannot do so for solutions.
The issues are:
1. The inordinate use of force by the police to subdue demonstrations
2. demonstrations then become riots
3. rioters take the law into their own hands and hurl projectiles at the police to inflict harm
4. police respond with live ammunition to quell the violence
5. it is not known whether the police aimed at the rioters and saboteurs or shot live rounds in the air to scare them off
6. they did so in a neighbourhood – ricocheting bullets could have hurt, killed or maimed bystanders or residents inadvertently
To me this is an escalating circle of violence which should be dealt with. The questions are:
1. should the police use live ammunition in these situations to protect themselves
2. should the throwing of molotov cocktails and rocks be regarded as criminal activity? terrorist activity? or “normal” as far as demonstrations are concerned?
3. should the rioters be gently tapped on their wrists and told that they are “bad boys” and release them by seeking clemency from the king, or leave them in jail to rot so that others don’t emulate them?
My own interpretation of the events is that the rioters should have the law applied to them and their actions although fully criminal, does not descend to the level of terrorism.
The cause which drove them to the street should be investigated and diplomatic avenues should be sought to resolve the situation and “the elders” should be invited to explain the situation to those rioting youth. There is a difference between riots and demonstrations, one is peaceful and constitutional, the other isn’t. If one turns violence, he or she should face the law for their actions. They have destroyed any chance of getting the actual valid grievances heard by their actions.
The police have the full right to protect themselves but should never descend into using inordinate force to quell violence. They are trained – or should have been – to control crowds with using the minimum of force.
If they are faced with a true life and death situation, as ascertained by a commanding officer on the ground, of course they have the right to respond to protect their own lives.
However, the riot police here are known to instigate engagements, so obviously re-education – especially in human rights and constitutional boundaries – is a must.
To recap my own position in this matter:
1. People have a constitutional right to demonstrate
2. Police’s presence – if required – should be there to protect the demonstrators rather than instigate violence
3. If the demonstration turns into a riot, find out why and attempt to control it with the minimum use of force
I must say, this is a nice one. But, they usually just beat the crap out of everyone (in reality)
i dont think it’s either. it is to maintain law and order for the general public, and if demonstrators turn violent, they should be punished.
why is the third included when it isnt an option?
the problem is that they are told to respect human rights but not how far they can go. then when they act, they get into trouble. the result is that most of the time they are afraid to act so they wont be reprimanded/demoted as has happenned to some of them and criminals get away with their crimes. then one day, they are told to step it up without clear instructions again.
it is difficult to do a job without a clear job description and when you know you may well be hung out to dry if the wrong people get hurt or if the right people decide to abandon you. i for one would not like to be doing their job.
From today’s Al-Wasat:
«الداخلية»: إطلاق النار التØÂذيريجاء ÙÂيإطار الصلاØÂيات القانونية
المنامة – وزارة الداخلية
أصدرت وزارة الداخلية تعقيباً على الخبر المنشور ÙÂيصØÂÙŠÙÂØ© «الوسط» يوم أمس بشأنقيام رجال الأمنبإطلاق الرصاص بعد تعرض سيارتهم للاعتداء. أوضØÂت ÙÂيه أنقيام رجال الشرطة بإطلاق النار التØÂذيريجاء ÙÂيإطار الصلاØÂيات القانونية.
وأÙÂاد الوكيل المساعد للشئونالقانونية بوزارة الداخلية بأنه أثناء قيام Ø£ØÂد باصات الشرطة مساء أمس الأول (الجمعة) بتوزيع Ø£ÙÂراد الدوريات والØÂراسات المكلÙÂينبواجبات ØÂماية المراÙÂÙ‚ العامة والممتلكات ÙˆØÂÙÂظ الأمنبمنطقة توبلي، اعترضه ثلاثة أشخاص ملثمونوقاموا برميه بعبوات المولوتو٠الØÂارقة مستهدÙÂينسلامة ÙˆØÂياة رجال الشرطة الموجودينÙÂيالباص، وعلى الÙÂور قام بعض رجال الأمنبرد الÙÂعل السريع منخلال إطلاق ثلاث طلقات تØÂذيرية ما ادى الى ÙÂرار الجناة قبل تمكنهم مناستكمال القاء بقية العبوات التيكانت بØÂوزتهم.
وأضا٠أنقيام رجال الشرطة بإطلاق النار التØÂذيريجاء ÙÂيإطار الصلاØÂيات القانونية التيتخولهم الØÂÙ‚ ÙÂياستخدام السلاؠللدÙÂاع عنالنÙÂس ووق٠الاعتداء الذياستهد٠ØÂياتهم ودÙÂع الخطر المØÂدق الذيأØÂاط بهم وذلك ÙˆÙÂقاً لنص المادة 17 منالمرسوم بقانونرقم 15 لسنة 1976 والمادة 13 منالمرسوم بقانونرقم 3 لسنة 1982 بشأنقوات الأمنالعام.
وتعليقاً على ما تضمنه الخبر منتساؤل نائب رئيس مجلس بلديالوسطى عباس Ù…ØÂÙÂوظ عناستخدام الرصاص بمنطقة سكنية مأهولة، بيّنالوكيل المساعد للشئونالقانونية بوزارة الداخلية أنه كانمنالأجدى والأولى ØÂرصاً على مصلØÂØ© وأمنالوطنوالمواطنينانيوجه هذا التساؤل الى الملثمينالمعتدينالذينبادروا بإلقاء الزجاجات الØÂارقة للاعتداء على رجال الأمنأثناء قيامهم بواجبهم ÙÂيتوÙÂير الأمنوØÂماية الأرواؠوصونالممتلكات العامة والخاصة، مشيراً الى انه قد ÙŠÙÂهم مما ذهب إليه عضو المجلس البلديمنانه تشجيع لمثل هؤلاء للقيام بهذه الأعمال التييعاقب عليها قانونØÂماية المجتمع منالأعمال الارهابية والتيتصل عقوبتها الى السجنالمؤبد، وكانمنالمتوقع منه التØÂذير منمغبة القيام بمثل هذه الأعمال وأنيدينهذا الÙÂعل الشائنبصورة واضØÂØ© .
i agree
What he said is completely logical, whether or not the rioters who are throwing the molotov are aiming at the police or not it is still possible that one could hit a police man and most probably this image will come true.
I think the whole point of this topic is to discuss the use of live ammunition over rubber bullets. Yes this topic relates to Bahrain but I don’t see why it’s relevant that he doesn’t know anything about Bahrain. Explain to me what difference would it make if hes knowledgeable about the situation in Bahrain or not, aren’t we just trying to figure out whether its the right choice or not?
“In your country, the white man sells guns, makes them, its OK. If a black rapper says guns in one of his songs, a congressional hearing is summoned to have him dealt with. Interesting eh?”
In the US the majority of the complaints against black violent rap lyrics has come from the black community — from ministers, social workers, educators and from black politicians — most recently Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson..
Interesting eh?
I think mahmood is a fcuking Bahraani , try burning ur self.. will that be more pain to death or getting a bullet on ur chest.. insteading of seeing a bullet fired, why dont u see officers being tried to burn to death, every human has a right to defend himself. and when I will be tried to be hit i wont fire bullets in the air i will surely target it right on their forehead
OOh yes how true…. you think by throwing molotov u and try to kill the security u will be left free.. i think its the mistake of the law makers they should not be linient they should be more strick and they should not fire ammuniations in the air instead right into their ass … they think that they can do whatever they want .. this country is not only theirs its everyones and we have the right to live too… they have made our life miserable they should be put to death too
“they have made our life miserable they should be put to death tooâ€Â
Remind me not to piss you off, but………………..just because they tick you off, are an irritation, require more work etc is not sufficient reason to injure or kill them. In fact, it is all the more reason to act with care and diligence. Unfortunately the burden is on law enforcement to perform at a higher standard than the general public, common criminals and all around bad guys. The rules of engagement are not the same in part to insure that the public’s civil rights are assured. It isn’t fair, but then little in life is.
It’s too bad that in a few short years, Bahrain has gone from those peaceful demonstrations Chandra used to show to the use of deadly force from both sides. No one is saying there shouldn’t be the right to demonstrate nor the right to protect yourself; but the use of deadly force should always be a last resort not the first course of action, and that burden is on the police. Likewise, there should be no free rides, from either side, when something this serious is at stake, and the process needs to be transparent for all to see.
One word: context.
I’ll ask you: do you think it’s
acceptable to shoot teenagers on the
street in their own neighbourhoods
possibly in front of their own families
with live ammunition?
Do you think bringing foreigners into
this country, putting them on the fast
track for nationality, employing them
as policemen with little transparent assessment of their prior experience of law
enforcement giving them guns and live
ammo and telling them to target rioting
youth will solve this problem?
Do you think that this policy will lead
to long-term stability in Bahrain, knowing
what you know about Bahrain?
Can you/I/we all answer these questions
honestly? Do we love this country enough?
Mahmood, you know very well what shias have been doing for the past 15 years in bahrain, and u know very well that why they r doing this there is big history of what they want they dont want rights they want something else and they will never get it, today what they r is because of themselves , by burning their own country like that of 1994 did u get anything , did u get anything by following khumaini of iran (get my point). bringing huge explosives and weapons and hiding them underneath matums(shia mosques or whateva , using police uniforms for mischief purpose like all those who were caught in a house now called bait al mujrem , crushing the heads of policmen, burning them in police jeep ( i know these people’s family they live near by me) . and lot more there r videos everywhere about it on the net dont think you r the only ones who film onesided stories there r others who have filmed the full story which is true also,
the security knows very well how to deal with these people u dont have to teach them. and secondly by showing wrong pictures of stories just to be popular u wont get anything either .
These innocent youngsters r made to do mischief for other reasons and at the end they get pissed , stop all this nonsense and blaming of the gov. every one knows whats happening here ,,, by writing these bull shit stories nothing will change….
You will never get a country and leader like this anywhere else in this world,The country is trying best from its part.. Change your way of thinking and let the country boom its yours.I would like to tell to all bahraini youngsters, that please donot follow all those who try to destroy your future for political reasons. You yourself can make your and your homelands future bright …
so why did they do it?
Drugs, employement…revenge, False Promises,abuse?…
Nahhhhhhhh
They should Line them up and shoot about 4,000 of them straight out of highschool to make Jobs for more Asians.
this is justtttttttttttt Great!!
So are You Born in this country Mahmood?
if so
where was your father’s house?
Where are your brother and sisters working right now.
Manama, Gaza, Jorden Maybe?
Who are you Mahmood?..Really?
Oh God give me strength to deal with idiots…
“Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.”
+
“If You can get away with it.” Should be added??