Dennis Prager represents the the other side of the Arab/Israeli argument.
In this video, the scholar argues that there never was a Palestine, and he contents that every Arab wants the Jewish state and people to cease to exist. Citing the various other wars against Israel since 1948, and the Arab response to its declaration of statehood with their “famous three no’s: no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it. He also bases his arguments with the assertion that Hamas’ doctrine is to refuse to recognise Israel. Hamas is on record to accept the existence of Israel, within the 1967 borders, so that debunks the majority of his argument.
The other is that every Arab wants to exterminate the Jews and Israel. That is preposterous of course. Speaking for myself, I never have and never will ask for that. Apart from having many good Jewish friends all over the world whom I love and respect, as I have friends who happen to be Muslims, Hindu, Atheists and every colour in between, what benefit is there from hate? Everyone has a sovereign right to exist, without having to declare that fact and without having it bestowed on them. Every human does have a right to exist. Period.
The issue I have with what Israel is doing to the Palestinians now is denying them their human rights. The Israeli government has proven time and again that if any government was bloodthirsty, it tops the bill in that department. The most unfair government there is, and certainly the only one which operates under an apartheid regime, and does so with impunity. Unjust. Unethical and completely rogue.
What started this whole war this time was the killing of three young Israelis. The Israeli government decided that Hamas is to blame, so it levels Gaza. Well, it’s been confirmed that Hamas didn’t have anything to do with that heinous incident. Yet, Netanyahu and co’s desperation for another bloodletting took that excuse to kill over 600 human beings and maim thousands more.
As tragic as it is, their deaths has not gone in vain. People now question Israel and its policies and the support it once enjoyed has certainly waned.
This conflict need to be resolved. Put down your guns and sit down and talk! Difficult as that may be, people in power need to have the real courage to do so. Having this conflict go on for tens if not hundreds of years isn’t going to benefit anyone.
Comments
Why does every last argument on this subject have to come in the form of several minutes to over an hour of video? I applaud you, Mahmood, for summarizing the first bullshit spewer’s video, so I don’t have to spend my time on it. I got as far as “the conflict is simple”, and lost my patience.
Here’s one simple rule of thumb for you: Anyone who tells you the Israeli Palestinian conflict is simple is lying or delusional. Anyone who tells you there is one side obviously right or obviously wrong, call their bullshit.
You did not do me the same service with the second video, so I just skipped around a bit to see if I can get the feel to what it’s about. I did the same to the video in your previous post, so I will not comment on it. If there is anything in particular you think I should see, feel free to let me know what minute:second it is into the video.
You accused me of being “a staunch supporter of Israel you are, regardless of the atrocities it levies against civilians.” To show you that is not the case, I’ll start by pointing out what Israel has done wrong, in my opinion, in this round of escalation:
– Pointing the fingers at Hamas was done extremely early. At the time, it seemed curious, but I assumed there was a reason. We now know the reason was that the army knew who did it, and knew they were Hamas members. You claim it was an independent cell. I have not managed to glean that information from the links you provided, and have not heard it elsewhere. For the sake of this discussion, I’ll take your word for it.
– In addition to seeking people who will know where the kidnappers are, Israel also made arrest designed to hurt Hamas. I thought, and still do, it was opportunistic and uncalled for.
– Of the prisoners released in the Shalit deal and re-arrested, I am given to understand there are some for which there is no evidence that they resumed terrorist activities, but they are still being held. That, to me, is wrong.
The reason I do not include the tragic, horrendous and criminal civilian death count, is because while I do think it is tragic, I do not see how Israel could have avoided it, except by not retaliating at all.
While I’m sure the stories are not reaching the news media you hook up to, the stories are still fairly telling. Israel sends messages saying “evacuate, we are going to bomb”. Hamas is giving instructions, on pain of death, to stay put.
There is even one eye witness report saying he was opened fired on. He returned fire with a small arms, and the entire house blew up.
And why shouldn’t Hamas act this way? What’s in it for it? If every Palestinian killed is automatically a world view point against Israel, why should Hamas try to minimize the casualties count?
So my question to you is this: Were you the Israeli prime minister, what would you have done differently? Someone is firing missiles at your civilian population. What do you do?
Shachar
Author
What I would do is stop it once and for all. Actively seek resolution by accepting and enacting United Nations resolutions and sitting at the table of peace talks. There are initiatives already in play and ready to be implemented.
I would do that without letting my guard down and be at the ready if hostilities resume. I would use it to bolster peace rather than summarily and collectively kill civilians. I would understand that with power comes responsibility. And I would stay humble and human enough not to demonise everyone and everything that does not agree with my views and not be so staunch in my belief that everyone is wrong and I’m the only one who is correct in my views.
On the tactical level, what would you do?
You say “And I would stay humble and human enough not to demonise everyone and everything that does not agree with my views”. Words to live by. Why don’t you take your own advice, mister “terrorist illegitimate state“.
So by your own advice, it is not possible to say Israel is the only one at fault that the peace negotiations failed. Let’s assume, for the moment, it is, however. Still, at best, the solution you propose would take years to implement. In the mean while, during the “ceasefire” period your citizens are being fired upon on a weekly basis. Hourly during periods of active conflict. Do you just ignore that?
So, when three kids are being taken, do you not send the army in to look for them? When the army is being fired upon, do you tell them not to shoot back? Please point out the specific step among the steps that led to this escalation you would have avoided taking, had you been in charge of Israel.
Shachar
Author
And I guess you’re looking for moral justification of your argument by condoning this kind of action?
http://goo.gl/Ec3MpN
I was not making any argument. I as trying to get you to substantiate yours.
Stop dodging. You said Israel is in the wrong. I ask you what it needed to do differently.
Shachar
Author
Proportional force is one, if force was ever needed.
Are you saying Israel should have fired hundreds of inaccurate missiles indiscriminately at civilian population?
Obviously, nothing is more proportional than doing exactly the same thing as the other side, right?
Shachar
Author
No. What I’m saying is with Israel’s far more advanced capabilities, they can pin-point an attack to neutralize the threat rather than level whole neighbourhoods and slaughter everyone in them, most of whom are civilians. Israel, as the occupying power, has the obligation to protect those people, rather than annihilate them.
Let me get this straight. What you are saying is that Hamas can place ammunition inside civilian’s houses, threaten their lives in case they want to leave when they are given prior warning that the house will be bombed, and then when they die, it’s Israel’s fault?
Doesn’t Hamas carry any responsibility under such a case?
Do you honestly believe a weapon that will destroy the rockets but not kill the civilians even exists? After all, for all we know, the explosion of the rockets alone is enough to bring down the house.
Shachar
Author
My final answer to you Shachar is for you to read this: http://www.thenation.com/article/180783/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked
Fine. If you do not wish to have this discussion any more, then I’ll provide my final answer and we’ll be off our separate ways.
This is an official Hamas announcement telling people not to evacuate when warned by Israel that their house is going to be bombed. Here is what the UN has to say about that.
Completely missing from both your responses and the article you linked to is any reference to Hamas. It is as if this is a body with no will, no ability to navigate, whose actions carry no practical or moral consequences. Such a position is morally bankrupt.
And through it all, you still did not answer my original question: what could Israel have done differently? This is not an unimportant question. This question is the distinguishing factor between substance-free bashing and criticism.
Shachar
P.s.
I sent this comment from work, but it in no way purports to represent my employer’s opinion. It represents no-one’s opinion but my own.