Katrina calling

31 Aug, '05


Katrina is leaving a lot of devastation in her path. A wiki has been started to disseminate information about the destruction and more importantly coordinating rescue and help efforts. I would appreciate it if you would lend a hand if you could. A regular reader for instance just informed me that the Red Cross is in dire need of blood. If you can, give.

Our thoughts are with you.

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Comments (132)

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  1. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    It really looks bad, badder than bad. Somebody said on the news this morning that he saw a shark swimming down the street in downtown New Orleans.

    You just know that no matter how many people evacuated, there’s always ten percent who just couldn’t or wouldn’t and are now sitting on their roofs, hoping to be evacuated. There just aren’t that many boats and helicopters to rescue ten thousand people. Or more. They are going to be stuck in a city that will be stone dead for at least a month. The city is going to be unliveable for months.

    Let me tell you, New Orleans is a great, happy city. The food is great. The music is great. It’s a treat just to drive your car down those tree shaded lanes with the old style homes on each side. And the people are wonderful. They’ll talk to you on the street just like you’re their old neighbor and tell you all about what they’re up to. They have a wonderful charm and they are in no hurry whatsoever.

    I worry that the D-Day Museum will be damaged along with the museum of the Confederacy across the street. They have artifacts in there that can not be replaced, locks of Lee’s hair and uniforms that Confederate cavalrymen were buried in after being wounded and personal mementoes. I can’t stand that history being lost.

    New Orleans just doesn’t deserve this.

    There have been some funny moments. One of the weatherbeaten TV news correspondents spied a man walking his dog in New Orleans after the town had been evacuated and the storm had passed. He asked the man what he was doing. “Walking my dog,” said the man. Why are you still in town, queried the newsman. “None of your f*g business,” said the dogwalker, and walked on. All captured on national TV.

    Steve

  2. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    The red cross also needs some donations to support rescue efforts, supplies, etc.
    Please spare any cash available to help the needy. The situation is deteriorating daily.

    Salam,
    nomadicarab

  3. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    Mahmood

    Thank you for putting this up. Any and all help is needed and is appreciated.

  4. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    Thanks for your kind thoughts and for this posting.

  5. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    The situation in New Orleans is getting worse. The criminal elements are hampering rescue efforts, and have even fired upon rescue boats and helicopters. Looting is becoming rampant. Taking clothing, food, and even first aid supplies can be excused, but plasma televisions??!! People are dying in the Superdome, and the place quickly has become unsanitary and dangerous. Dead bodies are floating everywhere. Drug addicts are becoming increasingly belligerent and dangerous.

    10,000 more National Guardsmen have been called up to maintain some semblence of order, so that the evacuations can continue. The majority of Americans, including myself, believe that anyone engaged in an act of violence, or brandishing a weapon, should be shot on sight. There is no other way to maintain order and provide for the safety of the innocent.

  6. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    It’s hard to think of anything dumber than stealing a plasma television in a city full of chest-deep water where there is no electricity and will be none for months. I think even the TV stations are down. My guess is that the dopes who are wading through the streets with one of these hoisted high over his head will suddenly realize after a few blocks that they can’t use it for anything and will toss it in the drink.

    Steve

  7. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    Mahmood,

    Thanks for your concern. Thanks to you and to the commenters for suggestions about donations.

    Michael in Framingham

  8. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    Well, how predictable was this: A Muslim official from Kuwait is declaring Hurricane Katrina a punishment from Allah: http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD97705

    Looks like this Kuwaiti was the first in the line of no doubt a long line of idiot Muslims who will be claiming Allah sent Katrina to punish America. Stay tuned.

    I especially relish that it was a Kuwait government official who made this condemnation first. Kuwait would have no government had the US not saved it from Saddam. This government official would probably have been executed by Saddam’s goons had we let the Iraqi occupation run on longer, if he hadn’t escaped to some more congenial place. We saved him, his family, his government, and his country so that he could hurl condemnations built of nonsense at his American benefactors.

    This is the gratitude we have come to expect from Arab nations. In the end, it doesn’t matter if you do them well or ill, even if you save their very lives, they will hate you and try to do you in because you are not Muslim.

    Disgusted,

    Steve

  9. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    Thanks Mahmood for spreading this out! Appreciate it.

    Strav. (Angelo Embuldeniya)

  10. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    If anyone has family or friends in affected areas but can not reach them via cell/phone. Please send an email to the katrinahelp.info[at]gmail.com with the subject title as ‘PCV-(their location)-KH’ and include any necessary details. We have a network of volunteer callers on the ground, ham operators and people sitting near computers waiting to pass the message on.
    Don’t forget to include a way callers could get back to you with nay new updates/info.

    -strav.

  11. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Anon;

    I agree that looters should be shot. I’ve never been to NO myself, but my relatives have. They said there was a lot of crime down there to begin with. A cop advised my uncle not to leave his car in a lot because it probably wouldn’t be there when he got back. This was right on Bourbon Street.

    As for the gunfire, that could very well be shopkeepers defending their property. A few were shown on TV brandishing their weapons right on the stoops. People have the right to shoot intruders in LA. Not like here in NY, where shooting a burglar will land you in jail and the burglar a generous award settlement.

    Aliandra

  12. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    Steve, that’s not fair. Consider where you posted this.

    Laura

  13. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    With some estimates at the death toll close to 7000+ I think Steve’s comment is not only fair but is an issue that must be addressed. I want to see the same outrage at this asswipe in Kuwait that many in the world direct at the US for the words of another world class asswipe named Pat Robertson. The sound I am afraid we will hear is much like the sound you hear while camping. The sound of crickets.

  14. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(3): Katrina calling

    Kuwait feels no obligation to America because we are not Muslims. Remember that prior to the invasion of Iraq, Kuwaitis were assassinating Americans on the streets of Kuwait. I also recall a recent documentary by Thomas Friedman where he interviews a high school class of Kuwaitis who openly said the Sep 11 attacks were justified. Imagine where those same Kuwaitis would have been had America said the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was justified, perhaps a punishment from Allah. They would have likely have been bound and hooded in that same auditorium, waiting for their turn to be tortured on the stage. That’s what the Iraqis did to Kuwaiti students. When Friedman asked them if they didn’t owe America something for Kuwait’s liberation, they all replied at once, “That was then.”

    Saudi Arabia does not give money to help Americans, but only gives money to kill Americans and destroy America. For example, the $500,000 to finance the Sep 11 attacks and the vast millions spent to fund radical mosques in America filled with texts urging Muslims to view non-Muslims as the enemy and work toward conquering America for Islam.

    Neither country feels gratitude toward America, whose good deeds count for nothing in their eyes. The bottom line is that we are not Muslim, so they have no sympathy for us, no matter how rich we’ve made them nor how we’ve saved them from torture, rape, and death.

    Steve

  15. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    Laura,

    Maybe you haven’t been here long enough, but I think that most here would agree that Middle Eastern governments have more than their fair share of nutcases, and these nutcases are rarely, if ever, shouted down if they rejoice in the death of thousands.

    Compare that to the West.

    And think.

    Ethan

  16. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    To give some perspective on the extent of damage from Katrina about 90,000 sq miles (234,000 sq km) are literally destroyed or unusable. This is the direct impact of the storm. This equates to roughly an area[b] 2/3[/b] the size of[b] Germany [/b]or [b]ALL[/b] of the [b]UAE, Bahrain, Qatar and about 1/2 of Oman[/b]. The devastation is unreal.Compare this to the 20 acres or so lost as a result of 9-11. The cost in human lives alone will be in the 1000’s. The cost repair/rebuilding to the infastructure will not be in the billions but TRILLIONS and years down the line.I hope this helps some understand the scope of what has happend.

    Bonsaimark

  17. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(1): Katrina calling

    My impression of New Orleans was that it was a great city, a fun city, but if you wanted to get into trouble, you could do it pretty easily. The first time I went, I drove into town and not knowing where to park, parked my car about a half mile from downtown in what looked like a dogeared blue collar neighborhood. The walk back in the dark was a little edgy but everything went fine, no problems. Later, I told a coworker who used to work in New Orleans where I parked and he said I was lucky to get out alive. The best place to park is in one of the casinos downtown. Of course, nobody is going to be visiting New Orleans for fun for some time now.

    Apparently, there are packs of armed men roaming about New Orleans. Of course, the TV channels say that they are carrying AK-47s, because ignorant liberal journalists think all rifles are AK-47s. They don’t know the difference between automatic and semiautomatic weapons, so they think everyone is carrying an assault rifle. I suspect the truth is that some may have some cheap Chinese semiautomatic rifles that look like AK-47s and most have handguns. The classic proven solution to such armed thugs is to shoot a few of the bandits before they go on a rampage that kills dozens or hundreds.

    Some people are defending their homes and shops with firearms. Generally, the presence of an armed person will deter looters and thugs who are opportunists who prefer easy pickings. Brandishing the weapon will prove enough of a defense in almost every case. Now it appears that aid workers must have armed guards to deliver food and supplies to the interior of the city. It’s a case study in the value of the Second Ammendment. When the government fails, your gun may be the only government left.

    Steve

  18. chalk66x says:

    Re(2): Katrina calling

    Steve your logic as usual is skewed to your beliefs rather than reality. It doesnt matter if Katrina is a part of a natural cycle or not as that natural cycle is going to be enhanced by global warming.

    Just another pinhead with a dishonest agenda

    billT

  19. anonymous says:

    Re(2): Katrina calling

    Since when was Pat Robertson a “tree-hugger?!” You need to get your facts straight – especially when you spew such anger at people. Instead of blaming Arabs, or posting ugly rants, you should turn that anger towards the Bush administration for failing the country in a desperate time of need. The resources the federal government has provided have been pitiful, the racism towards disenfranchised blacks absolutely obscene, and the slow response utterly, utterly inexcusable. It seems as if the Bush administration is more concerned with a Gulf half-way across the world, than the one at home.

  20. anonymous says:

    Re(3): Katrina calling

    I am going to be very blunt with you little shit. Take the top of you head. Grab a sharp knife and begin the process of giving your self a frontal labotomy. After that please take your candy ass back to whatever rock you climbed out from under and stay there. If that is to complicated for you please email me and I will be happy to provide you with some picture based instructions for you to follow.

    Until then go play on the freeway during rush hour.

  21. mahmood says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Again, don’t generalise. This twit has had a brain-fart too many that if his government knows what to do, it should fire him after his prints a full apology. In events like these, you will always get rats like him come out of their sewers. It’s our job to either drive them back, or get them to drown in their own filth.

    Here’s another brain-fart courtesy of Crossroads Arabia.

    So please, rein it in!

  22. anonymous says:

    Re(3): Katrina calling

    [quote]the racism towards disenfranchised blacks absolutely obscene [/quote]

    Hurricanes aren’t racist. They’re not alive.

  23. mahmood says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    I hope that you will also have the same (deserved in both cases) contempt for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. who took the very same line as our esteemed Kuwaiti brain-fartist?

  24. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(3): Katrina calling

    Read the NY Times piece I linked, billT. Global warming has nothing to do with hurricanes. It does not create them, it does not make them bigger nor smaller, better nor worse. It has no effect. That’s what the professor of atmospheric science says.

    In fact, if you read the article closely, you see the typical caveating by other professors [b]speculating[/b] on the effect global warming [i]might[/i] have. They speculate because [i]they don’t know[/i].

    The closest to scientific endorsement you get that global warming makes hurricanes more dangerous is this: “Global warming may eventually intensify hurricanes somewhat, though different climate models disagree.” Read that sentence carefully. In other words, depending on the assumptions different scientists make in their models, the results are different. The effect of global warming is all about the assumptions you make, not hard facts that lead to concrete conclusions.

    Once you get past the lack of correlation between hurricanes and global warming, then you run into the problems of proving global warming is happenning, and if so, proving it is caused by anything other than the sun. Since we have just come out of mini-ice age in the 1200s, it makes sense that we would be warming. And, should you prove all that, you have the last hurdle of proving that warming the planet up will be bad, unlike all the previous times it has warmed up between ice ages as part of the natural cycle of the Earth.

    What it comes down to is that global warming is a pseudo-scientific belief, the Left’s equivalent of creationism, which is held with the same wrongheaded religious fervor.

    Steve

  25. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(3): Katrina calling

    Anon: “…you should turn that anger towards the Bush administration for failing the country in a desperate time of need. The resources the federal government has provided have been pitiful, the racism towards disenfranchised blacks absolutely obscene, and the slow response utterly, utterly inexcusable. It seems as if the Bush administration is more concerned with a Gulf half-way across the world, than the one at home.”

    It would be crazy to join Bush-haters like you in your hatefest because you think Bush is responsible for a hurricane hitting New Orleans. On the contrary, the federal government has been providing massive aid with supplies, helicopters, and troops. Who do you think sent those orange helicopters plucking people off their rooftops? The problem is not that Bush told all the guys in the orange helicopters to sleep in, as you seem to think, but rather that there are not enough orange helicopters in the US to pluck tens of thousands of people off their rooftoops in New Orleans. It is a massive disaster beyond the means of a quick fix. It’s not gonna be wrapped up in thirty minutes like your favorite soap opera nor have a happy ending.

    This particular catastrophe is peculiar because, unlike other disasters, it is composed of a set of interlocking constraints. The breaks in the levee flooded the city. Because the roads are flooded, they can not drive the necessary machinery and materials to the levy to fix it. Because the city is flooded, the entire infrastructure is down – electricity, water, sewage, phones. Because the electricity is down, the people left can not communicate to coordinate their actions, to know what is happenning or what to do or where to go. It all has to be done in person, which is made very difficult and slow because the roads are flooded. It’s hard to bring medical and security people in because they must be self-sufficient for however long they are in the afflicted area.

    This is a more difficult problem than the tsunami where the water came and left. In this case, the water came and stayed. That complicates things enormously.

    Your charge of racism is foolish race-baiting. People are busting their butts, risking their lives, to help the people of New Orleans, regardless of race. A casual reading of the news reveals that there has been no racial barrier to kindness. You are simply trying to stir up hatred with baseless accusations, the hallmark of slimy liberals. It is shameful.

    Despite what you silly liberals think, the US can do more than one thing at a time. It can walk and chew gum at once. It can handle a war and a hurricane simultaneously, too, no matter how much folks like you want to sell it short.

    Steve

  26. anonymous says:

    Re(4): Katrina calling

    From the coverage and information I have read since the hurricane hit I am particularly concerned, and very angry about the reaction to the events.
    In the build up to the hurricane, it was reported how severe the hurricane was expected to be, and therefore how severe the effect could be. As such government (of all levels) had the information to act properly and organise a proper evacuation. Why were the elderly, the poor, those without cars and relatives elsewhere not provided for? Why were buses not laid on? Why were hospitals not given the assistance needed prior to the hurricane? And after the hurricane hit, why has the response been so slow? It is not like the States have never had a hurricane before. Yes, it was devestatingly strong and this is obviously going to effect the response, but, why was organisation not already in place? There should be an emergency response plan that is ready to be implemented immediately. I find it exasperating, and almost beyond disbelief that, for example, at the superbowl, that there was no properly trained organisation and stocks despite the fact that people were told to go there, and they had warning, time to prepare.
    As elected president, GW Bush has responsibilities. It is he who has to acknowledge that mistakes have been made, and as president he has to take responsibility because it is his duty to ensure the safety of country and its people, to ensure that those below him are doing their jobs properly – that is what he was elected to do. I am no fan of GW Bush, but it doesn’t matter who the president is – in this he has failed and questions have to be answered.
    The event has really highlighted the huge gap between rich and poor in america, a problem which I fear is growing here in the UK also. It is a real concern for ALL not just america that the worlds richest superpower, led by the most powerful man on earth cannot look after its own people. The attitude to poverty in Africa is shameful (only 3 c in every 100$ goes on relief despite signing up to the millenium development goals, yet 5$ of it goes on defence – ironic since this ‘defence’ has made the rest of the world so much more unstable), and the attitude to poverty in America is even more shameful. Why should the president of a country who cannot look after its own poor command the authority that he does over the UN and the UK for that matter. I am ashamed that my own country cannot stand up to this.
    Yes, the hurricane damage has made recovery very difficult – but there was time to prepare more thoroughly, it is the states responsibility! As such Bush, and his counterparts should be held accountable.
    Gema, UK

  27. anonymous says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Gema;

    Is there any bad event in the world that can’t be blamed on George Bush?

    When the hurricane was upon Florida it was a Category 1. LA was preparing for a Category 1 but by the time it sped on to NO it had increased to a Cat 5. George Bush has no control over this.

    [quote] by the most powerful man on earth [/quote]

    This isn’t a James Bond movie. Bush is not the most powerful man on earth. He isn’t even the most powerful man in the US. Power here lies in the Congress, not in the executive branch. And for the record, the most “powerful� man in the country is Alan Greenspan, chairman of the Fed. He manages the economy.

    [quote] and the attitude to poverty in America is even more shameful. [/quote]

    Please don’t compare poverty in the US to poverty elswhere. The majority of America’s “poor� have a place to live, have a TV, appliances, and phones. Many own cars. In fact, the biggest problem for America’s poor is obesity.

    [quote] The attitude to poverty in Africa is shameful (only 3 c in every 100$ goes on relief despite signing up to the millenium development goals, yet 5$ of it goes on defence[/quote]

    Africa is in deep penury, because of Africa’s shameful attitude toward poverty. The equivalent of several Marshall Plans have already been donated to the African continent. Most of it gets swallowed up by corrupt governments who would rather squander it in wars or stash it away in Swiss accounts. Few, if any of it, gets to those who need it. The US will not be throwing any more money down this toilet until Africa reforms itself.

    [quote]Why should the president of a country who cannot look after its own poor command the authority that he does over the UN.[/quote]

    Since Bush has so much authority over the UN, why don’t you tell us why he can’t get them to stop the genocide in Darfur?

  28. anonymous says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Gema,

    Your dislike of W is showing.

    Yes, officials had 70 hours to plan and evacuate a THREE STATE AREA. Got any idea what you are really talking about in reality to evacuate that many people “in case it came their way”?

    Everyone has known for a long time what kind of disaster would happen when the big one hit; it was a tradeoff for past presidents, congress, residents and local politician were willing to live with. More than likely cause they know New Orleans is going to be reclaimed by the ocean in this century anyway. Not saying it couldn’t be done better, but there is alot of blame to go around IF you are a finger pointer including the residents who choose not to leave. Having been through my share of hurricanes, I understand their desire to hope for the best, and sometimes you get burned in the process.

  29. anonymous says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    PS: About 80% of the money we spend each year goes to social programs that “help the poor” so please back off with your self righteous crap about how we don’t look out for the poor, either our own or the worlds. Maybe some of the gulf states can help the world poor with their increase in oil revenues; put the US on the top of the list of the needy.

  30. anonymous says:

    Re(6): Katrina calling

    Gema in the UK

    Would you please also climb back under whatever fucking rock you slithered from and worry about the problems in the UK or in your beloved EU. You could start with the imbred Royal Family and the billions they syphon from the over burdoned British Taxpayer, clean the Irish issue up and figure out what your going to do with some very radical immigrants as well. Then turn your rose colored glasses onto your dear friends in France and Germany who have an unemployment rate nearing 15%. When you solve those problems then by all means you are more than welcome to tackle the internal issues of the US.

  31. anonymous says:

    Re(4): Katrina calling

    Hurricanes certainly aren’t racist, but government officials are. The city and state called for evacuations before the storm, but no one provided transportation out of the area for those who could not provide their own – and this group is comprised of mostly poor African Americans. Notice it’s the poor blacks that are posted on the television, because they are the ones who could not escape the city. The black populations in the United States have NEVER been a priority for the government – especially a Republican government.

  32. anonymous says:

    Re(4): Katrina calling

    Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

  33. anonymous says:

    Re(1): Katrina calling

    Mahmood

    RFK jr is not a government or religious figure. He is a private citizen who is also one big jackass. I don’t think comparing him vs the nimrod in Kuwait is an apples to apples deal. This asshat from Kuwait must be condemned by the Government of Kuwait for whom he works. RFK jr and the Pat Robertson’s will be and are known as the Tree Hugging kooks that they are. Both have a bad case of VD. (Verbal Diarrhea ) but at least it isn’t an offcial case of VD as with the fucktard from Kuwait. (Pardon my choice of words)

    What we don’t see is the government of Kuwait laying the Donald Trump smackdown on the guy and telling him he’s FIRED. I haven’t seen any governments of the ME or the Islamic world rebuke any of the employed nutters for their words following 9-11 or the Tsunami. WHY? Perhaps some have been dealt with. I haven’t seen it. This is the burr, a big burr, that is crawling under our skin in America. The billions of $$$ we have spent and the blood that was spilt and we get this in return? The Muslim world needs to step up to the plate and take a much stronger and vocal stand against these kind of comments from it’s Religious and Government leaders.

    On a better note it is nice to see many nations around the world offer to lend us a hand. Sadly I have yet to see any country from the ME or GCC make an offer. Someone prove me wrong.

  34. anonymous says:

    Re(4): Katrina calling

    In December of 2001 the government projected that the three worst catastrophies to hit the US would be – a terrorist attack in NY, a large-scale earthquake in San Francisco, and a Category 4 – 5 hurricane hitting New Orleans. One of the first things the Bush administration did when they established the Department of Homeland Security was to drastically downsize FEMA. The funding for environmental programs such as updating the levees was also cut with Bush’s taxes. And the story goes on, and on, and on……

    I am certainly not blaming an act of Mother Nature on the administration. I am blaming them their lack of foresight and priority of invading another nation as opposed to taking care of their own.

    I do particularly want to argue with you, as based on your other postings, it seems as if you have a hard time with critical thinking and just repeat the senseless rhetoric of your party. Best of luck with that in the future, as it’s all starting to fall apart now. Being from the Gulf, a consistently Republican region, I am shocked at the heated level of anger towards Bush. People all around the island were threatening to shoot his helicopter out of the sky so he would stop wasting gas pretending to care – feeling as if he cared, he wouldn’t not have let New Orleans in such dire straits with his domestic policy.

  35. anonymous says:

    Re(4): Katrina calling

    Thank you for the primary school lesson, but being from New Orleans I know exactly how my city works.

    In December of 2001 the government projected that the three worst catastrophies to hit the US would be – a terrorist attack in NY, a large-scale earthquake in San Francisco, and a Category 4 – 5 hurricane hitting New Orleans. One of the first things the Bush administration did when they established the Department of Homeland Security was to drastically downsize FEMA. The funding for environmental programs such as updating the levees was also cut with Bush’s taxes. And the story goes on, and on, and on……

    I am certainly not blaming an act of Mother Nature on the administration. I am blaming them their lack of foresight and priority of invading another nation as opposed to taking care of their own.

    I do not particularly want to argue with you, as based on your other postings, it seems as if you have a hard time with critical thinking and just repeat the senseless rhetoric of your party. Best of luck with that in the future, as it’s all starting to fall apart now. Being from the Gulf, a consistently Republican region, I am shocked at the heated level of anger towards Bush. People all around town were threatening to shoot his helicopter out of the sky so he would stop wasting gas pretending to care – feeling as if he really did care, he wouldn’t not have left New Orleans in such dire straits with his domestic policy.

  36. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(1): Katrina calling

    Yes, Mahmood, I do indeed have the same contempt for JFK Jr, a blowhard who has been trading on his family’s name, who flies from city to city in his private jet to castigate SUV owners for being gas hogs. I posted a comment on the Huffington website that orginally posted his nonsense comparing his offering of Katrina as proof of global warming as one step away from reading bird entrails as proof to the ignorant masses. For some reason, they did not publish it.

    Here is an article from the New York Times, of all places, saying the current spate of hurricanes is part of a natural decades-long cycle that has nothing to do with global warming. Others have pointed out that Galveston, Texas was obliterated a century ago by a hurricane long before the US was heavily industrialized. Back then, about 95% of the population were farmers. Perhaps back then the global warming kooks would have claimed cornfields caused hurricanes.

    I predict we will see a mob of pinheads trying to capitalize on Katrina to serve their dishonest agendas.

    Steve

    [Modified by: Steve The American (Steve) on September 02, 2005 05:37 AM]

  37. mahmood says:

    Re(2): Katrina calling

    What we don’t see is the government of Kuwait laying the Donald Trump smackdown on the guy and telling him he’s FIRED. I haven’t seen any governments of the ME or the Islamic world rebuke any of the employed nutters for their words following 9-11 or the Tsunami. WHY? Perhaps some have been dealt with. I haven’t seen it. This is the burr, a big burr, that is crawling under our skin in America. The billions of $$$ we have spent and the blood that was spilt and we get this in return? The Muslim world needs to step up to the plate and take a much stronger and vocal stand against these kind of comments from it’s Religious and Government leaders.

    Yes, I totally agree with you on this. He should be summarily dismissed. No question whatsoever.

    RFK jr is not a government or religious figure. He is a private citizen who is also one big jackass. I don’t think comparing him vs the nimrod in Kuwait is an apples to apples deal

    Yes, I can see that now. I stand corrected. Though it does demonstrate that turds exist in every culture but thankfully they are few and far between, hence generalisations should not be made because of their individual brainfarts.

  38. mahmood says:

    Re(2): Katrina calling

    I predict we will see a mob of pinheads trying to capitalize on Katrina to serve their dishonest agendas.

    Steve you’re right on the button here. You will ALWAYS find a nut that will coerce natural disasters as curses and bring out religious texts to support his/her point of view. I am absolutely sure that this kind of talk will permeate Friday sermons as well, but that’s exactly the same as the various fire and brimstone sermons in a variety of churches around the world. These nuts will invariably use these kinds of sad events to “remind people of the Power of God” and for them to better repent else they and their people will suffer worse.

  39. anonymous says:

    Re(3): Katrina calling

    Would you please elevate RFK Jr, Pat Robertson, this asshat from Kuwait Muhammad Yousef Al-Mlaifi and the entire dictatorial editorial staff at the Arab News to the world famous [b]The Wheels are Turning but the Hamster is Fucking Dead Society?[/b]

    All deserve lifetime memberships and special awards which I will be happy to pay for. Perhaps a certain someone can whip up a special T SHIRT for these people???

    The above comments you answered where mine. My apologies for not putting my name to it. I need a vacation.

    Bonsaimark

  40. anonymous says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Save the crap for someone who is buying; talk about rhetoric. Honestly want me to believe it is only this administration that overlooked New Orleans and all because of Iraq? Talk about being dishonest.

  41. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Thanks Mahmood for bringing attention to this growing tragedy. Blood and Money are the most effective donations – anyone willing to donate money, please research the organization first, or stick with big, well known charities that you trust. Also, please don’t forget that many employers will match some or all of your donations, so if you work for a business that does this, please make the effort to get their matching gist sent as well.

    Peace,
    Jared in NYC

  42. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Steve;

    [quote]STEVE: Kuwait would have no government had the US not saved it from Saddam.[quote]

    I do recall Kuwait donating 2 million or so to the US after some hurricane hit. This was after Gulf War 1. I don’t remember which hurricane but it did a lot of damage to the Carolinas.

    Aliandra

  43. anonymous says:

    Re(2): Katrina calling

    It seems only two nations in the ME/GCC area have offered any help. Israel and the United Arab Emirates. Nothing from Kuwait. ZIP from the Saudi’s. The two nations who 1) can afford to help and 2) you would think would feel somewhat of a moral obligation to assist as well. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound? With friends like these who the hell needs enemies?

    Almost a week into this disaster and this is the response we get from the region. Great way to build bridges.

  44. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    Hi all,

    Several founders and members of the SEA EAT (South East Asian Earthquake And Tsunami) blog & wiki, which gained worldwide attention in the Boxing Day Tsunami of 2004, have remobilized on three continents to aid in Hurricane Katrina. Please check out our efforts at our wiki & blog and add any useful information there!

    We have now also got a communications network set up and running in affected areas and can make/take calls, receieve voice mail messages, send/receieve sms messages.

    There is coverage of Louisiana via LSU & Tulane and will be having an uplink into the superdome via Houston in a few hours. Additonally, we do provide connections via our international volunteer callers network to other locations in the US & internationally going through uplinks Australia & New Zealand.

    Because the land lines are down and the reception of cell phones are fuzzy to a certain extent in additon to the network being swamped at times, sms is live! So we are still able to reach most areas via text messages which can be sent to our Tulane Local number. As the hours pass, we will set up more US-local numbers and we will reroute all international-bound messages directly, int’l-bound calls within the USA are rerouted through New Jersey, Australia & New Zealand.
    Our communications network is also hooked up to SATERN & HAM RadioOps Net via relay service.

    So if there’s anyone out there that needs to get in touch with their loved ones, friends, relatives, etc. in affected areas in Bahrain or overseas, get latest situation updates on sectors inaccessible by land or air or just want to share info with us regarding alerts, etc.

    Please call 00015042081564 from Bahrain & +15042081564. Also we are just getting faxlines set up and SOS-Direct lines to volunteer networks and local agencies in the area. We are imposing a 3 – 5 minute duration on each calls to maximize capacity of this service and we are running 24 hours/day & international. We are in this for the long run and have plans to increase lines per area by 2 each. These lines are manned by the KatrinaHelp Team located globally! Please pass the word out on this to anyone you know who may need to use the service. If you need us to open up more lines, please request so with an email to katrinahelp.info[at]gmail.com with subject titled as ‘ KH-PCOV-Intl-LinesN ‘ and specify which location.

    Thanks,
    Nancy Bohrer & Angelo Embuldeniya.


    (The KatrinaHelp Team)
    http://www.katrinahelp.info
    +15042081564 — local to Tulane, LA -24hrs/day/international

  45. Steelangel says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    You know what drives me nuts?

    The fact that the Louisiana state government and the City Government of New Orleans dropped the ball big time, and acted like morons. They called the evacuation too late, they didn’t use their resources wisely. They were inadequate first responders.

    Imagine what would have happened if after 9/11, New York stood there stunned and stupid waiting for the Federal response before mobilizing local services. That’s what happened in New Orleans and surrounding areas. We shouldn’t forget the fact that there was more than just New Orleans hit! The entire infrastructure of the area is GONE. That federal aid came in after 4 days is not as bad as it could have been given the situation.

    BUT

    The lack of coherent first response falls at the feet of the state and local governments, not the feds.

    I suppose its easier to blame Bush though. He was the Jew that killed Mohammed too, you know.

  46. Steelangel says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Please.

    The cost benefit analysis for the New Orleans levees was done during the Nixon Administration.
    They were chosen as Category 3 based on that analysis.
    President Clinton cut funding to the Levees as well.
    Why not just blame the past 40 years of lack of governmental foresight.

    Why Bush? Even he says that the respose by the first responders was ‘inadequate’.

  47. Steelangel says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Steve,

    Global Warming is not some pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo. Climate models do indicate that the presence of things like CFCs and pollutants will affect the atmosphere significantly.

    That is fact.

    It is the conclusions that vary – some say that the planet will warm, some say cool, some say other things. The climate of Earth is NOT a solved model, it’s a significantly chaotic system. Adding new variables only complicates things.

    So in a sense, the Environmentalists take the pessimistic view. But the actual effects are not completely clear if you compare every major model.

  48. anonymous says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Oh, the old race card again. Bull!

  49. anonymous says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Mr/Ms New Orleans

    [quote]Thank you for the primary school lesson, but being from New Orleans I know exactly how my city works. [/quote]

    Then you are quite aware of its level of corruption and the general corruption in LA. Put the blame where it belongs, please.

  50. anonymous says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    [quote]Notice it’s the poor blacks that are posted on the television, because they are the ones who could not escape the city. [/quote]

    NO is almost 70% black. So of course most of the folks on TV are going to be black.

    [quote]The black populations in the United States have NEVER been a priority for the government [/quote]

    Rubbish. Government is always pandering to blacks. Affirmative action is the prime example.

  51. Alireza says:

    Katrina calling

    What is going on in the States? It’s much worse that President Bush yet again taking to the skies on Air Force One as a disaster hits. If the lid’s taken off it for a minute the place immediately explodes into anarchy with the looting, raping and sniper fire (at bed bound hospital patients awaiting to be airlifted). It reminds me of the sort of insanity that overtook Baghdad when Saddam fled. I dunno if this chaos is something to do with the racial politics of the US Deep South, but its shocking when you see only black people (plus the white elderly) left behind.

    I can’t help compare with what happened with the smaller scale disaster that hit Bahrain last August when the electricity went down nationwide for 12 hours in the plus 50C heat. There was obviously opportunities for lawlessness and paralysis, but the immediate reaction from most people seemed to be to go and join a queue – either to pay their electricity bills outside closed offices for those who’d mistakenly thought they’d been cut off for late payment, or for others join a queue for the few functioning petrol pumps. Or doing what I did and drive round and round in the car with the air conditioning on full watching the fuel gauge go down.

  52. anonymous says:

    Re(7): Katrina calling

    Mr/Ms New Orleans;

    [quote]If you had, you would be able to see that there are levels of poverty that can absolutely match the developing world. There is an ENORMOUS gap between rich and poor in this country – with most of the downtrodden being minorities. [/quote]

    Your comparison to the developing world is junk fiction. No one in the US is dying of malnutrition, living in mud huts or driving donkeys to work. It’s already been recognized that black minorites need some attitude reform if they want to escape the low income lifestyle. Stop having multiple kids out of wedlock, stop dropping out of school, and stop getting in trouble with the law.

    As for you Native Americans, put down the Johnny Walker, sober up, and get a job. There’s no reason all those Mexicans can get and keep a job without knowing any English, and you can’t.

    The constant blaming of your self-inflicted problems on others is getting tiresome.

  53. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(7): Katrina calling

    Anon: “Have you ever been to Mississippi, Alabama, Lousiana, West Virginia, Idaho, Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Kentucky, Georiga, or any of the desolate reservations where all of the Native Americans have been displaced over the years? If you had, you would be able to see that there are levels of poverty that can absolutely match the developing world.”

    I have been to all of these states except Idaho. I’ve been to a few Indian reservations, Navajo and Apache, to be precise. I can tell you with confidence as an eyewitness that our poor are in a far better situation than those of the developing world. That is because we have government programs to keep the poor from starving or going homeless. The developing world has no such safety net. We have no poor people dying by the road because they have nothing to eat, as they are in Africa. If I may point out the obvious, many people come from the developed world just to live on welfare here because it is a big step up in their lives.

    If you are poor in America, it is probably because you made bad decisions in your life. If you finish high school, get married before you have children, and take any legitimate job that pays, you will not be poor long in America. The stats from the Federal Reserve show that only 2% of the lowest quintile of income in this country are still poor after twenty years. They work their way out of it.

    If you see the poor in America, they come in two basic sizes, fat and skinny. Most of our poor are fat due to the fact that their food is provided free by the government and their own sloth. The minority of the poor who are skinny are largely drug addicts.

    The job bureaus in poor neighborhoods do not lack for jobs but rather for people who want to work. The typical experience is that a poor person will take such a job from the job bureau, work two or three days, and quit. They are not used to working and they don’t have the discipline to show up consistently, take orders, and complete a task.

    Anon: “There is an ENORMOUS gap between rich and poor in this country – with most of the downtrodden being minorities.”

    If America is biased against minorities, why do black people from the Carribean have a higher income than white people while domestic black people have a lower income? Both groups are just as black, yet one consistently does better and produces people like Colin Powell. Likewise, in California, the biggest problem is that Asians are taking up all the slots in the advanced placement courses. They have restricted the proportion of slots so that other races are represented. If this were a racist society, how could that be? And of course, Indian immigrants do fabulously well in America, many of whom are just as black as any American black person.

    The reason why a few minorities fail while others succeed is not due to race but to culture. For example, studying hard at school is considered “acting white” in the American black population and good students are harassed. That is a good way to prepare for poverty. Likewise, the black population has a much higher proportion of illegitimate births. If you are having babies at fifteen with no husband in sight, that is a reliable ticket to poverty.

    Minorities are not being forced by evil white men to stop studying and have babies. These are bad choices made freely by individuals which ruin their own lives. When they make better decisions, they will make better lives for themselves.

    A huge gap between the rich and poor is the sign of a free and prosperous society. A small gap is the sign of a primitive and impoverished society. Those societies where people have about the same wealth are aborigne societies of nomads, like the American Indians of the old West or desert nomads of Arabia or slash and burn Indian farmers in the Amazon. They have limited opportunities to create wealth or store it. Any society which seeks to level the differences betwee rich and poor inevitably must do so by using violence to steal wealth from those who create to give to those who refuse to work. That’s evil.

    In societies where you have great opportunities to create wealth, as in capitalist societies, some people are going to take more advantage of them than others. Some are going to bust their ass at school while others goof off. Some will work hard at their jobs while others can’t be bothered to keep theirs. Some will take risks with their wealth that others refuse to take. The decisions they make determines the wealth they make. The gap in wealth is large in a fair society because it reflects just return on the effort by individuals. You get as far as your talent and determination will take you in America. Arguing that everyone should have the same amount, regardless of their talent or effort, is an evil argument cloaked in bogus virtue, calculated to appeal to the simple-minded.

    Steve

  54. chalk66x says:

    Re(4): Katrina calling

    What makes you think I didnt read it? You can pick and choose studies according to your beliefs. You got kids Steve I do and Id rather err in their favor than give industries that are shipping our jobs overseas a break.

    Like I said Steve you let your beliefs over ride common sense. Put a pan of water on the stove the more you increase the heat the faster the water boils. It doesnt matter if we are in a cycle or not warm water generates hurricanes and the warmer the waters the stronger and the greater the number of hurricanes.

    It really would be nice to believe that this is just cyclic but the greenhouse effect is real, just buy some rock tomatoes at the grocery store.

    This shoudnt be a leftist or conservative problem and we shouldnt be playing name calling if there is even a 20% chance that global warming is going to affect our kids.

    If I was Mahmood Id buy some property for the kids and grandkids someplace a little higher than Bahrain.

    billT

  55. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(7): Katrina calling

    I quite agree with the two posters above, who make a great deal of sense. Of course, the local government should make the immediate response with the federal government coming in to do the heavy lifting.

    While New Orleans is a great city which I love, it is not a well-governed city. Louisiana has a long legacy of corruption going back to Huey Long and before, in which New Orleans is a major player. The New Orleans police have a long history of being underpaid and on the take, even sinking to ordering hits on co-conspirators in drug deals. This is the result of a corrupt and incompetent city management. Today brings the news that 200 New Orleans city cops turned in their badges because they were being sniped on. That’s a disgrace and demonstrates the lack of commitment of the New Orleans police to their community, which may be due to a lack of commitment to a corrupt leadership. When your city is destroyed and you come under fire from criminals hiding in the ruins, you don’t give up. You take the war to the criminals, destroy them, and take back your city.

    I am particularly unimpressed by the incompetent performance of the mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin. He has spent his time pitching fits at press conferences in an attempt to blame everyone but himself. He even talked about giving up his responsibility for the city to a general who is running part of the aid effort. He doesn’t seem to measure up to his responsibility to the city nor the demands of this emergency.

    When a crisis overcomes you, it’s no time for hysterics and finger-pointing. It’s time to command your emotions, take stock of the assets available to you, determine what’s most critical, and make decisions full of specifics to move yourself to a better state of being. That’s what Giuliani did during Sep 11. He was full of specifics after the jets hit, communicating to NYC what the situation was, where to go, where not to go, and getting the assets of the city moving in the right direction.

    Nagin, by contrast, is pitching a tantrum full of curses that does nothing to improve the situation. He’s only been mayor for two years, which is the sum of his political career. Before that, he was a bean counter at the local cable company. He is in over his head. Like a drowning man, he is trying to save himself by pulling others under.

    The only people who have demonstrated competence in this catastrophe are the military.

    Steve

  56. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(7): Katrina calling

    I have lived in North Carolina and weathered a hurricane or two there and elsewhere. I don’t recall any hurricane that flooded a major metropolis in North Carolina and flooded the roads into town, cutting off help from outside.

    Your analogy is bogus.

    Steve

  57. anonymous says:

    Re(6): Katrina calling

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

    Open the link, look at the picture and ask yourself why. Why are these buses there? Why didn’t the Mayor of N.O. use these buses to help get people out of the city? WHY? Yet he wants to lay blame at the feet of others for his own lack planning it would seem. A picture they say is worth a 1000 words. This one is worth 1000’s of lives.

    ed: link didn’t work as the system mangled it. edited to correct situation and linked to the image directly here

  58. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Anon: “The funding for environmental programs such as updating the levees was also cut with Bush’s taxes. And the story goes on, and on, and on……”

    It doesn’t go on as long as your line of crap. The point of rupture of the levees was the most recently worked on section. There were no plans to do more work on it in the future, whatever the level of funding. That work was to be done on other areas, which did not fail.

    Your painful economic illiteracy is showcased by your comment that Bush’s tax cuts led to cuts in levee construction. The tax cuts led to increases in total tax revenues. In other words, cutting taxes brought more money in. I know this is difficult for liberals to understand, but when the economy is overtaxed you can make more money by cutting taxes, just like a store with slow business can make more money by dropping prices. Liberals like you, however, always think the answer is more taxes. That’s as foolish as a dumb businessman thinking he could make more money simply by raising the prices on everything he sells.

    Anon: “I do particularly want to argue with you, as based on your other postings, it seems as if you have a hard time with critical thinking and just repeat the senseless rhetoric of your party. Best of luck with that in the future, as it’s all starting to fall apart now.”

    Your response is not an example of critical thinking but rather simply insult, ad hominem argument, the lowest form of argument. For liberals, perhaps its the highest form.

    Anon: “Being from the Gulf, a consistently Republican region, I am shocked at the heated level of anger towards Bush. People all around the island were threatening to shoot his helicopter out of the sky so he would stop wasting gas pretending to care – feeling as if he cared, he wouldn’t not have let New Orleans in such dire straits with his domestic policy.”

    This paragraph neatly illustrates the irrationality of Bush-hating.

    Steve

  59. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    Fact: Warnings were given, everything from the geography of the city (it’s literally the shape of a tub!) to the levees that could potentially break.. everything was discussed and warned for years.

    Fact: People will naturally go nuts. I will. No Food, Violence, No Authority, Killings, No place to shave or clean yourself, no bathrooms as they’re overflowed with crap and stench (knee deep) and people basically crap and pee in the stairways hoping no one will see them, its worse than being in a 3rd world country or in the middle of a hot desert. Even rapes are going on.. patients in hospitals shooting and killing doctors, dead people left in stairwells.. You would be out of your mind not stealing.. YOu have to steal to live! Water is like gold.. religion and faith of course is no where to be seen except in few pockets of areas (so no guarantee of morals or ethics).. I don’t blame how people react.. even the government shouldn’t be surprised. Any person from around the world will eventually go nuts in such circumstances of hopelessness and utter despair.

    Fact: There is a class and race issue very live in the US.

    Fact: Day by day, people lose faith in living in areas where there are a lot of minorities living.. most people that are talking on air on tv talk about traveling north..

    Fact: The world is going to change and people will view the US in a very different way.. I can’t see that much of difference in terms of injustice and corruption compared to other countries in the world..

    Fact: people will defend the actions of the emergency evactuation.. that the storm came by surprise.. but these are stupid excuses that are worth nothing now..

    Leaders protect their people.. that’s why they are elected or chosen leaders after all right?

    You will probably see some senior guy in the government being fired.. but this is way overboard.. there should be an independent international enquiry on this disaster.. not about the hurricane but about something even more worse.. the attrocities that are happenning right this second.

    CNN journalists.. look at them.. see what they’re saying.. they’re shocked and ashamed to what’s happening here… on other networks, you get very frequent loud arguments from both sides..

    Ritz carlton hotel at the city of New Orleans ordered buses and they quickly arrived.. took the guests and now they are all healthy.. the point is.. they came in QUICK with towels and food and everything.. what does that tell you?!?!

    You see signs of people loosing their minds.. signs saying that they have dogs and guns inside the house and anyone thinking of stealing anything will be ‘eaten to the dogs’.. wow

    journalists arrived and stayed and took live videos and pictures of everything.. why didnt the emergency teams do that?!?!?! use power electricity.. save people.. move them out with thousands of trucks and buses? You can bring major transportation autmobiles to other countries faster than the speed that is occuring right now. This is beyond me..

    The city of New Orleans is destroyed and surrounding regions.. and 100 billion dollars later in a few months, I highly doubt if anyone is coming back…

  60. kategirl says:

    Katrina calling

    While the loss of lives is truly saddening, the reaction from all quarters has been equally saddening. During other crises in the US, like 9/11, it appeared that everyone set aside their differences and came together to resolve the situation. This time however it seems that this has not really happened. There’s been much more bickering than I would have expected, and less shows of sympathy and support for the affected. For some reason, in the media, there isn’t that outpouring of patriotism and flag-waving that we saw after 9/11. It still doesn’t feel as though this is a national crisis, and it doesn’t seem to have struck the same emotions as happened after 9/11.

    Given that I’m sitting far away in Bahrain, and that my observations are based solely on TV and internet, I may be completely wrong about this. Maybe someone closer to the US could correct me, or explain why the reaction to the current crisis has been so markedly different from previous ones.

    [Modified by: Chan’ad (chanad) on September 03, 2005 07:05 PM]

  61. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(6): Katrina calling

    Ethan,

    What is a climate model but a set of assumptions? If I set up a climate model so that it projects global warming, is that scientific proof? My understanding is that climate models simplify the world climate tremendously because it is too complicated to be understood with what we know now.

    When I lived in Houston, I went to the NASA open house at the Johnson Space Center, ie Houston Center. In one building they were doing an experiment to support long term spaceflight, ie for a mission to Mars. They had a thirty foot wide cylinder which was a closed simulated habitat for space travellers in which they recycled their atmosphere and grew their own food. They would place a crew of people in there, close the hatches, and see how long they could go before something broke down and it became unliveable. The whole thing was fully instrumented. When they got to the point of failure, they would analyse their data, make changes, and try it again.

    One of the guys running it said that they could go about a month. He told me that it was pretty easy to find the proximate cause of failure but it was pretty tricky to find the ultimate cause of failure, because one thing affected the other in unpredictable ways. The atmosphere might become unbreathable because the crops were affecting it because the lights were too weak because the power was affected by something else, etc. He said the real cause was often seven degrees removed from its effect.

    Now the Earth is vastly more complicated than that experiment and we know much less about it. The Earth is not fully instrumented. Our data set about the world weather is only detailed for perhaps the last fifty years. Before that, it gets pretty sketchy except for isolated spots. In the life of the planet, a century of data is less than a heartbeat. You can’t make predictions on that with any degree of reliability.

    While that space experiment is a fairly simple world where scientific observers with full data are able to track problems back through seven degrees of separation with some confidence, the Earth is much more complicated. Changes in the world weather in one spot could be caused by a vast number of things a hundred degrees removed, a thousand degrees removed, a million degrees removed which may interact in vastly complicated ways. We are not close to understanding this problem or even a small part of it. Scientists can not predict the weather more than a few days in advance, let alone centuries. The confidence with which global warming cultists predict the weather in millenia strikes me as grandiose and unbelievable.

    When I was stationed at Clark Air Base in the Philippines, I lived literally in the shadow of Mount Pinatubo, which erupted in 1991 (long after I left). It spewed as many pollutants into the atmosphere as all those from man since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Yet, the only effect was that sunsets were a little redder around the world for a few months. If the world is as sensitive to such pollution as the global warming cult suggests, why didn’t the world weather change dramatically in response to this, or even change at all? That seems to suggest empirically that the global warming theory is fundamentally flawed. The volume of the eruption also demonstrates that the role of natural processes far outweigh any human ability to add or subtract to them.

    Steve

  62. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Bill,

    Global warming is as ill-founded as global cooling was thirty years ago when proposed by the same Chicken Little leftists with the same urgency demanding the same massive diversion of resources. Had we heeded them then, we would have wasted a trillion dollars on their knucklehead nonsense to warm the Earth just in time to change course completely and spend another trillion to cool the Earth.

    A boiling pan of water on your stove is not a scientific model of hurricanes which have more complicated factors influencing them. For example, there is no thousand year cycle of water currents rotating up from the ocean floor in your pan of water that will break up hurricanes with an upwelling of cold water. There is no Coriolis effect on the steam from your pan. There are no variations in solar radiation which heat your water nor is your pan periodically plunged into an ice age by the tails of comets, as the weather on Earth may be.

    Next thing you know, you’ll be telling me you’ve simulated global warming in your microwave.

    Steve

  63. anonymous says:

    Re(8): Katrina calling

    September of 1999, Hurricane Floyd caused the worst flooding in the state’s history – I never claimed it happened it a major metropolitan area – that was a false deduction on your part. The hurricane, the flooding and the destruction are simple facts. And with your attitude, you may have lived in North Carolina, but you are certainly a Yankee.

  64. anonymous says:

    Re(6): Katrina calling

    You give Americans a bad name acting as if you know it all and throwing around such hatred. It’s really a shame.

  65. mahmood says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    If I was Mahmood Id buy some property for the kids and grandkids someplace a little higher than Bahrain.

    I already did, in Bahrain paradoxically, but Oman at the moment seem to be the place to be!

    Other than that, I’d better invest in Scotland.

  66. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    [quote]Scorpio: What is going on in the States? It’s much worse that President Bush yet again taking to the skies on Air Force One as a disaster hits. [/quote]

    More ill-informed cheap shots. Bush made his first tour of New Orleans from the air because doing so on the ground would have diverted large numbers of police away to provide for his security instead of attending to the security of the citizens of New Orleans, who need it more. Of course, the Bush-haters will twist this out of malice or ignorance to make it look like Bush is detached.

    It reminds me of “If”, Kipling’s poem about being a man:

    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too:
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;


    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    ….

    Scorpio: “If the lid’s taken off it for a minute the place immediately explodes into anarchy with the looting, raping and sniper fire (at bed bound hospital patients awaiting to be airlifted). It reminds me of the sort of insanity that overtook Baghdad when Saddam fled. I dunno if this chaos is something to do with the racial politics of the US Deep South, but its shocking when you see only black people (plus the white elderly) left behind.”

    Well, I’ve been in or near the site of a few tornadoes, hurricanes, and floods in the US and Americans pretty much got back up and carried on with their business without making much of a fuss about it. When I sat through a hurricane in Miami, people pretty much partied until it was over. No looting, no rape, no riot. When I got caught in the great Mississippi flood of 1993, Des Moines did not descend into anarchy. People drove out to look at the water covering the landmarks, bought bottled water at the store, and made do until services were restored. When Hurricane Isabel turned the lights out in Washington a couple years ago, people stayed home and listened to their radios for a couple days, looked at all the downed trees, and waited it out. Of course, these were the reactions of middle class America when caught in a crisis.

    Most of the black people left New Orleans. So did most of the white people and elderly. That is to say, most of the middle class. The people you see remaining in New Orleans are the poor. This is a class thing, not a race thing.

    Bluntly put, most of the poor are people who have screwed up their lives with bad judgement due to poor self-discipline and ignorance. It’s not much of a surprise that people whose private lives are anarchic would establish an anarchic society if left to themselves. While they shoot at the helicopters trying to rescue them and endanger the doctors healing them, the Vietnamese trapped in New Orleans have told the authorities that they will wait until everyone else is rescued and then they will leave in an orderly fashion.

    The poor of New Orleans and the people of Baghdad are similar in that they are both dependent populations not used to taking their own initiative to better themselves. They are also both poor and ill-educated. That’s why you see both populations on TV cursing the world, complaining that others are to blame for their predicament, and demanding everyone restore their life.

    By contrast, when middle class Americans take a hit, they don’t go complaining to the TV cameras. They buy some nails and lumber and get to work repairing their own lives.

    Scorpio: “I can’t help compare with what happened with the smaller scale disaster that hit Bahrain last August when the electricity went down nationwide for 12 hours in the plus 50C heat. There was obviously opportunities for lawlessness and paralysis, but the immediate reaction from most people seemed to be to go and join a queue – either to pay their electricity bills outside closed offices for those who’d mistakenly thought they’d been cut off for late payment, or for others join a queue for the few functioning petrol pumps. Or doing what I did and drive round and round in the car with the air conditioning on full watching the fuel gauge go down.”

    That’s how middle class people act in an emergency. They don’t set their hair on fire and go running screaming down the streets. They take action themselves to solve the problem the best they know how.

    Steve

  67. mahmood says:

    Katrina calling

    aha!

  68. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(7): Katrina calling

    I’ll live with the shame of resisting knucklehead fads. Perhaps you will learn shame for being so intolerant of ideas which differ from yours. Maybe you’ll even learn to present facts to rebut them, instead of hating people who disagree with you.

    Steve

  69. chalk66x says:

    Re(6): Katrina calling

    Yep there is no global warming and its all a leftist plot. I stand corrected thanks Steve 🙂

  70. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(9): Katrina calling

    The flooding of North Carolina after Hurricane Floyd came from drainage of the rain from the storm. That meant the local creeks and rivers ran over their banks. While it washed out some roads, the road network in general remained open, unlike in New Orleans. In New Orleans, the flooding affected an entire greater metropolitan area and the highways leading into it. That’s the difference between the flooding wrought by Hurricanes Floyd and Katrina. Floyd brought decentralized flooding that was easier to deal with while Katrina brough centralized flooding which presented a tougher nut to crack. The two are not equivalent, as you claim, and not proof that Bush is to blame for Hurricane Katrina’s worse effect.

    Steve

  71. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(7): Katrina calling

    I knew you were a sensible fellow, Bill. The next step is to join the Republican Party. I can send you the papers today, if you like. Fedex them, if need be. You’ll be a better man for it.

    Steve

  72. chalk66x says:

    Re(8): Katrina calling

    Steve Doesnt that mean that I would have to go bald, get fat and work for the federal goverment. Im perfectly happy being a conservative liberal green party member who still has his hair.

    billT

  73. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Anonymous: “Fact: People will naturally go nuts. I will. … I don’t blame how people react.. even the government shouldn’t be surprised. Any person from around the world will eventually go nuts in such circumstances of hopelessness and utter despair.”

    I disagree. My life experience and education tell me that disasters tend to amplify people’s personalities. Bad people act badder and good people rise to the occassion.

    I talked to a city official in Wisconsin once who had been the supervisor of jobs program back in the Depression. He supervised jobless guys digging ditches around town. He said that the doctors and lawyers were the best workers, though he felt sad that they had been reduced to such work. They never complained. They just picked up their shovels and dug their ditch because that was what they had to do. He said the worst workers were the young punks who had never done manual labor. They did nothing but complain and make trouble.

    It’s a matter of self-discipline, which is derived from your personality, your education, your experience, your maturity, and your culture.

    Anonymous: “Fact: There is a class and race issue very live in the US.”

    Some people see racism in the clouds and under their bed. The rest of us just get along.

    Anonymous: “Fact: The world is going to change and people will view the US in a very different way.. I can’t see that much of difference in terms of injustice and corruption compared to other countries in the world..”

    It doesn’t sound like you know much about the rest of the world. You’ve never lived in a Third World country, have you? You might want to try it before you go on about how the rest of the world is just as fair and above board as America. You’ll acquire quite an education the first time you have to bribe the local postmaster to get the last few months of mail that never made it to you or you have to bribe the local policeman who has stopped the Rich American for a trumped up traffic violation or get thrown in jail because a local ran into your car while it was parked (you have insurance which can be extorted, that’s why). When you try to establish a business you may be surprised to find it takes literally months or years to run the labyrinth of offices to pay the bribes to get the permits instead of the day and small fee it takes to register in the US. You might find it is impossible to get legal title to a home overseas, which means anyone in power can take it. And of course, no matter where you drive in the US, you’ll never find a mass grave where the government has hidden all its political opponents.

    Anonymous: “CNN journalists.. look at them.. see what they’re saying.. they’re shocked and ashamed to what’s happening here… on other networks, you get very frequent loud arguments from both sides..”

    From what I’ve seen of CNN’s coverage, they are just going from Bush-hater to Bush-hater, setting them up with puff questions so they can rage at Bush.

    Anonymous: “Ritz carlton hotel at the city of New Orleans ordered buses and they quickly arrived.. took the guests and now they are all healthy.. the point is.. they came in QUICK with towels and food and everything.. what does that tell you?!?!”

    It tells me that the management of the Ritz Carlton is more competent than the mayor of New Orleans. It suggests that private business is more competent than government to get things done.

    Anonymous: “The city of New Orleans is destroyed and surrounding regions.. and 100 billion dollars later in a few months, I highly doubt if anyone is coming back…”

    New Orleans will be rebuilt. Mardi Gras will proceed as scheduled come next February.

    The location for New Orleans was not picked out of a hat or chosen by throwing a dart at a map. It sits at the mouth of the Mississippi, which drains about a third of the middle of the US, which carries commerce in and out. That’s why it was one of the first big cities built in America. There will always be a New Orleans sitting at the mouth of the Mississippi even if they have to build it on stilts.

    Also, the network of communications built up over the centuries all feed into New Orleans. That makes it valuable real estate. Even if a nuke hit New Orleans and left it a blackened swamp, the road and rail net combined with its river and ocean access would automatically build the town back again.

    That’s why you see ancient cities in the Middle East built up in layers. A town will be attacked and burned to the ground, only to be rebuilt on the ruins. Some cities actually stand on mounds which are layers of ruins. They are rebuilt because their location makes them natural junctions on trade routes, which are impossible to destroy.

    Steve

  74. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(9): Katrina calling

    Hey, it worked for me. That’s all I’m saying.

    Steve

  75. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Chan’ad,

    I think you’re on to something here. I must confess that while my head understands what’s happenning in New Orleans my heart hasn’t caught up. I see individuals caught on roofs and stranded in the stadium, but there is no central image that really makes me feel like this is a crisis. It’s not like the WTC being hit where you really felt a jolt and you knew that if something wasn’t done quick, it was going to go bad in a big way.

    The flooding in New Orleans has probably killed more than Sep 11 but it seems like it has done it in such a spread out fashion that you don’t really get a grip on it. Most of the dead will probably be found in ones and twos, drowned like rats in their attics when the water rose. Most of the images of the recovery are people waiting for a bus. That doesn’t seem very dramatic. It just seems like this can all be resolved by bus drivers. It doesn’t feel like a national crisis, just like a big problem to be managed.

    Money-wise it looks like Americans have contributed on the scale of the tsunami relief, as might be expected. Houston acted quickly to take people in the Astrodome. A lot of other cities have done the same on a smaller scale. I feel like the quantity and quality of the effort have been decent.

    But what about the lack of rah rah American self-celebration?

    I can only speak for myself but I had something of a negative reaction to some of the first interviews of the flood victims from New Orleans. They complained too much and blamed America, meaning white people, for not helping them, for ignoring them. They whined like losers. They didn’t have the self-respect, the dignity, the stoicism I prefer to see, which I admire, in people going through a tough time. That’s how I try to act when times are tough. Like the survivors from the WTC and Pentagon. In that respect, they did not seem to exhibit an American character. Americans respect people who took a punch and come up fighting. These people seemed to take their punch and fall down crying. It’s a bit embarassing to witness. It’s nothing to celebrate.

    When the first reports of looting, rape, and murder came, the victims of New Orleans lost some sympathy as victims. When the going gets tough, Americans expect you to hang together, not to tear each other up. The people in NYC did not start looting, raping, and killing each other after the WTC fell. In fact, crime actually cratered for a few days as the criminals took a holiday in NYC immediately after Sep 11. Tough, tough New York surprised itself by a show of togetherness and compassion. In New Orleans, the criminals came out from under the rocks right after Katrina and took advantage of the absence of police to complete the ruin of their own neighborhoods. That makes it feel more like a race riot than a natural catastrophe. Again, nothing to celebrate.

    The worst came when the first wave of race-baiters and political hucksters came out of their holes and started claiming racism and incompetence, quick to make political points for their partisan agendas. These people are vultures come to prey on human tragedy, poisoning the well of good will. They’re willing to tear down America to build themselves up. It’s not helpful nor does it show the best face of America. It’s an embarassment.

    Steve

  76. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Very funny, Mahmood, but as a wise man once said, “Don’t generalize.”

    Steve

  77. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    [quote]Gema: “From the coverage and information I have read since the hurricane hit I am particularly concerned, and very angry about the reaction to the events. In the build up to the hurricane, it was reported how severe the hurricane was expected to be, and therefore how severe the effect could be. As such government (of all levels) had the information to act properly and organise a proper evacuation. Why were the elderly, the poor, those without cars and relatives elsewhere not provided for? Why were buses not laid on? … As elected president, GW Bush has responsibilities. It is he who has to acknowledge that mistakes have been made, and as president he has to take responsibility because it is his duty to ensure the safety of country and its people, to ensure that those below him are doing their jobs properly – that is what he was elected to do. I am no fan of GW Bush, but it doesn’t matter who the president is – in this he has failed and questions have to be answered. … Yes, the hurricane damage has made recovery very difficult – but there was time to prepare more thoroughly, it is the states responsibility! As such Bush, and his counterparts should be held accountable.”[/quote]

    Gema,

    Bush is President of the United States, not the President of New Orleans. The President has the powers assigned to him in the Constitution. Anything not enumerated in the Constitution is specifically denied to him, liking telling cities how to run themselves. That serves to wisely limit power. As such, the failure of individual cities to take proper precautions is their fault, not the President’s fault.

    If you want to know where the buses were, you might want to direct your questions to the mayor of New Orleans, who left these school buses to drown in their parking lot. That looks like about 120 school buses in the photo alone. In addition, the
    New Orleans Regional Transportation Authority has 364 buses or more.

    At the same time that the incompetent mayor of New Orleans is castigating Bush for not moving his ass to help New Orleans and berating the federal government for not providing 500 buses to move flood survivors, he left nearly 500 buses idle to flood in city parking lots. If you but 60 people on each bus, my calculator says 500 buses would carry 30,000 people total per fleet trip. That means that New Orleans had the capability to move the 100,000 remaining flood victims to safety in two days had they not sat idle instead due to the mayor’s negligence.

    It would have much cheaper to gas the buses up and send them out of the city than to send each one of them to the shop for an overhaul after being submerged. So the mayor’s inaction actually maximized the damage to city property while stranding his citizens while shifting the blame to the federal government.

    The only guy with any sense was Jabbar Gibson, car thief, who hot wired a school bus and drove a load of soggy refugees to Houston. If only the mayor was as smart and entrepreneurial as this crook.

    Steve

  78. anonymous says:

    Re(1): Katrina calling

    I disagree. My life experience and education tell me that disasters tend to amplify people’s personalities. Bad people act badder and good people rise to the occassion.

    — I certainly hope to see good people rising to the occassion. As a matter of fact, I did see stories of people from neighboring states come with a truck load of food and stuff all for free, one guy saying he’ll give and give until the last dollar.. as for the time being, most of the stuff I see on TV shows the misery and desparation, leading to the worst in actions..

    It’s a matter of self-discipline, which is derived from your personality, your education, your experience, your maturity, and your culture.

    — You’re right about that to some degree.. if you’re well rational person with goals in your life, and educated by background, you wouldn’t go nuts and lose your mind over this catastrophic event.. however this is just it.. the people there I highly doubt are educated enough with the right maturity and look in life.. look at the stats.. New Orleans has more than the average poverty rate compared to other major cities.. crime rates are generally higher, compared to neighboring cities.. to be frank I haven’t seen or heard of the America’s poor or disadvantaged until we put this huge magnifying glass on the 3 states and see who’s there.. it’s like the US’s hidden closet.. considering that most of the goods and basic products are produced in the US, and on top of that, it is regarded as an economic power compared to other countries, these people simply live by the most basic and thin line of life.. why did they cut the budget all these years for these states? Why didnt they do something to the 100 year old levees?! why not spend a few billion on a better infrastructure for these cities rather than wasting 100 billion and loss of lives!? when 9/11 happened.. it was New York.. considered a center-piece of the world’s economy, exemplfies a worldly cluture mixed with the goal of capitalism and achieving your best.. but here in New Orleans, this isn’t it.. I mean hey it’s a great place for cluture too.. but I highly doubt that Mardi Gras will come back … already estimates state they need 16 weeks simply to remove all the water… then you need to clean the whole area up! … start new jobs, start new lives.. I think people need a really good reason to stay there.. but maybe you’re right about how ancient cities have perished and a new city is built right on top of it.. very interesting point.. ohh. and keep in mind of one thing.. this is the 21st century.. there are more threats and hazards than how things were 100’s or 1000’s of years ago.. you have chemicals in the city mixing with everything.. battery liquid from cars.. fuel.. liquids from medical labritories.. chemical plants.. diseases have only started to spread.. it might be far-fetched but I could imagine cities not accepting anyone from New Orleans or the surround regions to come because of the potential threat of spread of diseases…It is a possibility that this place might not be habitable for months even after everything is cleaned and removed.

  79. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    I think you are right that Americans don’t view this as a national crisis; they see that many people put themselves in the position they are in. As Steve says, most of us have been through hurricanes, blizzards etc and don’t feel the need to rely on the federal government to bale us out. Hell, during the ice storm of 98, we were out of power in -20 weather for 2 weeks and never saw a guardsman or federal offical the entire time nor did we expect to. You prepare yourself and do the best you can and help each other out, you don’t stand there after 2 days and complain no one has fed you. Playing the race card also tends to turn people off cause we’ve all had our fill of the Jessie Jackson’s of the world.

    We’ll get it done, and NO will be rebuilt which is the dumbest thing ever. Lets just give each of the residents a half million and let them move where ever they want as long as it’s not NO cause it’s going to happen again.

  80. anonymous says:

    Re(6): Katrina calling

    Have you ever been to Mississippi, Alabama, Lousiana, West Virginia, Idaho, Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Kentucky, Georiga, or any of the desolate reservations where all of the Native Americans have been displaced over the years? If you had, you would be able to see that there are levels of poverty that can absolutely match the developing world. There is an ENORMOUS gap between rich and poor in this country – with most of the downtrodden being minorities.

  81. anonymous says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    And look at you with the name calling? Quite hypocritical.

  82. anonymous says:

    Re(6): Katrina calling

    When the hurricane was upon Florida it was a Category 1. LA was preparing for a Category 1 but by the time it sped on to NO it had increased to a Cat 5. George Bush has no control over this.

    Katrina became a Category 5 on SUNDAY. And if you have ever experienced a hurricane, you know that the storm last for about 24 hours. That is plenty of time to gather together the necessary forces – especially because the local, state and federal governments are all armed with projections in case of events such as this occuring, so the rescure operations are planned even before storms exist.

    In NC we had many hurricanes, and the last one, Floyd was a Category 3. By the time the sun came out once the storm was over, we had trucks, supplies and people from all over country there helping despite experiencing the worst flooding in the state’s history.

    There is no question that this could have been handled better, and the Bush administration is in serious trouble with it’s own platform of supporters.

  83. anonymous says:

    Re(6): Katrina calling

    That is an absurdly false statement. Especially because Republicans are against most social programing – that is left up to the bleeding heart liberals. One of the first things Bush did when he got to office was to drastically cut federal and state funding for social welfare programs. Just look how he gutted FEMA. Come on, you can do better than that bullshit.

  84. anonymous says:

    Re(4): Katrina calling

    You have a serious case of denial.

  85. anonymous says:

    Re(7): Katrina calling

    WHY DIDN’T YOU DEPLOY THE BUSES DURING THE MANDATORY EVACUATION, MAYOR?…

    [b]Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00[/b]

    [i]’The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating’… [/i]

    This makes the picture above in the link above even more deplorable. The Mayor of N.O. it seems failed to follow the disaster plan and has chosen along with others to engage in race baiting and blame shifting to save face and possibly is own ass. But as with all things in America we are transparent and the truth will rise to the surface as it is now.

    Think of the lives lost because many chose to IGNORE the order to get the hell out and for those who couldn’t leave and wanted to ,who suffered and died due to poor management skills at best and near criminal acts in my eyes. The very means to provide an effective evac where there and not used. WHY??? The cause and effect of what is happening now in a large part could have been avoided if just a little common sense had been used.

  86. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    I was stunned to hear the first piece of news on the radio this morning that Qatar has offered $100 million in aid for Katrina. That certainly sticks in my mind. That was enough for me to look them up, check their position on the map, make sure I remembered them.

    Steve

  87. anonymous says:

    Re(1): Katrina calling

    That is good to hear. Qatar stepping up to the plate. (PM you out there?)

    Still the sound of crickets chirping from Saudi and Kuwait is making me go deaf. Has Bahrain done anything in a Governmental manner?

  88. mahmood says:

    Re(2): Katrina calling

    the sound of a pin dropping is rather loud at the moment isn’t it?

  89. anonymous says:

    Re(3): Katrina calling

    It is loud Mahmood and it will not be forgotten either. For it isn’t the amount of money or aide, it is the offer to help that counts.

  90. anonymous says:

    Re(2): Katrina calling

    Well crisis always bring out the best and worst in humans. I thought the Qatar pledge of 100 million was kind and more than generous!

  91. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(2): Katrina calling

    Anon: “but I highly doubt that Mardi Gras will come back.”

    Baby, this is America, where the party never stops. A mere hurricane is not enough to stop the good times from rolling in New Orleans, USA. I guarantee you that whiskey will be flowing in Bourbon Street come Fat Tuesday. In fact, it may be the most memorable Mardi Gras ever, the last chapter in the history books when they recall Katrina.

    When I was studying aerial navigation in Sacramento, I often drove ninety minutes to Lake Tahoe to pursue ancillary studies in statistics at the blackjack tables there. Criminals, seeking to extort money, wheeled a bomb into the Harvey Hotel and casino. The Army Corps of Engineers piled a million sandbags around the hotel and sent a robot in to defuse the bomb, which had a fuse rigged to a motion detector. The robot set the bomb off which blew a hole up through the center of the skyscraper hotel and shattered every window within a few blocks.

    The next week I was in Harvey’s playing the slots, which they had set up on the ground floor in a jury-rigged wooden frame building covered with tarps and shingles. There was still broken glass on the cement floor. They had a makeshift gift shop that was selling T-shirts: “I GOT BOMBED AT HARVEY’S!”

    Mardi Gras is a major money-maker for New Orleans, whose economy depends on tourism. The next Mardi Gras is a natural place to demonstrate to the world that New Orleans is back in business. The opportunity for free advertising showcasing the recovery by the media is irresistable. The business leaders of New Orleans running the casinos and hotels and restaurants (like my favorite, K-Paul’s Louisiana Kitchen) are probably sitting in a conference room now, plotting the recovery of the business district, and marshalling the resources to get it done. They’re not going to walk away from their investment. Smart business leaders will see that fast reconstruction is an opportunity to increase their market share of tourism in New Orleans. It’s also a chance to build a bigger, better New Orleans with the ramshackle buildings condemned and cleared away to make room for fresh business.

    And if you should find yourself in New Orleans come Mardi Gras, don’t forget to order a hurricane. They’ll probably have a new recipe called a Katrina that will knock you for a loop. Don’t forget to buy your T-shirt: “I GOT BLOWN AWAY BY KATRINA!”

    Steve

  92. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    “By Friday, offers had been received from Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, New Zealand, Guatemala, Paraguay, Belgium, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Italy, Guyana, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Austria, Lithuania, Spain, Dominica, Norway, Cuba, Bahamas, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Ecuador, Iceland, India, Jordan, Luxembourg, the Philippines, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Sweden, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey.”

    http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/09/02/world-offers-help0902.html?ref=rss

    Laura

  93. kategirl says:

    Re(4): Katrina calling

    The silence breaks:

    Kuwait donates USD 500 mln oil products for Katrina

  94. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Here is an eminently sensible analysis of events from a military man blogging from devastated downtown New Orleans:

    [quote]And another thing to think about when we start pointing fingers is this. The government is never equipped to handle a crisis like this. There’s too much bureaucracy — initiative-stifling bureaucracy which prevents swift, effective action. I would like to hear from government employees on this. The nature of that bureaucracy is such that you have very specific guidelines to follow for even the most minute tasks. You need approval for just about everything, and the person you need approval from usually needs approval to give you the approval.

    It’s not as easy as say rounding up 4 of your co-workers and saying, “We’ve got someone at such and such an address, let’s go grab her and get her out of there.” Now add a destroyed or disabled command and control center to that bureaucracy and you’ve got a total and complete mess.

    You (as a civilian) don’t need “Approved” stamped on 3 different forms before you can run into your neighbor’s house and pull them out. I hope this makes sense.

    Anyway, I’m sure there’s been human error in this catastrophe. How could there not be? But what I’m saying is that I’ve come to expect poor decision making and a total lack of initiative from government. They can’t even balance a budget, at the federal, state, or local levels. I could balance my checkbook and spend within my means when I was a teenager. But I’m not gonna point fingers and get into the blame game. If you want me to blame something besides the storm herself, I blame the nature of government in the first place. It’s too big, it’s too slow, it’s too inefficient, it’s too bloated, and it’s too intiative-stifling to be effective in normal circumstances, much less in a disaster. It’s a systemic issue, more than an issue of individual people in government.[/quote]

    Quite right. The civil service system replaced the patronage system in America to control the fraud in government spending. That means that it has put in place elaborate controls to qualify budget items as legitimate and eliminate patronage. That makes it a ponderous and clumsy system with a slow response time. It’s suited more for long term projects that require a lot of analysis. It’s a big clumsy giant with fumble fingers.

    The government also suffers from being a bottom feeder in the job market. They don’t pay market price for labor, so they don’t get the best people. For example, the government is the employer where lawyers go when they rank last in their class. The government offers job security instead of pay, where you don’t have to worry about being laid off or fired. That’s quite a comfort to people or mediocre competence with marginally marketable job skills. Such people tend to be risk averse. In the government organization where I work, it’s common to hear “I’m not taking responsibility for that.” Everything must be decided to death by committee, where responsibility is diffused. They hire contractors like me to keep things running, analyze different courses of action, and to simplify courses of action down to a menu of choices with recommendations. We keep things running by making token compliance with established procedures while making things happen through informal networks.

    Steve

  95. anonymous says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Chan’ad

    Thanks for the update. Glad you are back as well!

    bonsaimark

  96. mahmood says:

    Re(1): Katrina calling

    😉

    good piece though…

  97. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Thanks, Kuwait. Please ship all of it to my neighborhood. I filled up mid-week for $35 (!), anticipating a big price rise. I was not disappointed. Gas has jumped half a buck at my local gas station to $3.44 in the last couple days. One station out by Dulles airport is selling gas at $5.99/gallon. I’m looking forward to paying fifty bucks a fill up by Thanksgiving. Three years ago, I could fill up on a twenty and have change for a Diet Coke.

    I hope Saudi Arabia will be sending me a freakin’ fruit basket or something to thank me for stuffing their pockets full of American bucks, but I suspect they’ll spend it instead on suicide belts and tickets to Iraq for their sons.

    Steve

    [Modified by: Steve The American (Steve) on September 04, 2005 10:37 AM]

  98. mahmood says:

    Bahrain donates to Katrina’s aid effort

    This just in courtesy of the Bahrain News Agency :

    Manama,Sept.4(BNA) The Bahraini Cabinet decided to donate with 5 Million Dollar as a contribution from The Kingdom of Bahrain to Aid the victims of hurricane Katraina which hit the US southern states and caused losses in souls and properties.
    The cabinet during today’s session under the chairmanship of H.H the Prime Minister Shaikh Khalifa bin Salman Al Khalifa , affirmed on the Kingdom of Bahrain unity and sympathy with the friendly US people and government in the disaster caused by the hurricane. The cabinet expressed condolences of H.M the King and the government and people of the Kingdom of Bahrain to the President and the government and people of the united states of America.

  99. anonymous says:

    Re: Bahrain donates to Katrina’s aid effort

    Thank you Bahrain for your help!

    (See Mahmood the MOI is good for something!)

  100. chalk66x says:

    Katrina calling

    This has been on cnn for a couple of days.

    Saudi Refining, a Houston-based subsidiary of state oil firm Saudi Aramco, will donate $5 million to the American Red Cross to support relief efforts for victims of Hurricane Katrina.

    billT

  101. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(8): Katrina calling

    Buried deep beneath a dozen paragraphs of criticism in the Washington Post for Bush and the federal government comes the smoking gun paragraph: The federal disaster plan is for local officials to plan to be self-sufficent for up to four days before federal help arrives:

    “Other federal and state officials pointed to Louisiana’s failure to measure up to national disaster response standards, noting that the federal plan advises state and local emergency managers not to expect federal aid for 72 to 96 hours, and base their own preparedness efforts on the need to be self-sufficient for at least that period. “Fundamentally the first breakdown occurred at the local level,” said one state official who works with FEMA. “Did the city have the situational awareness of what was going on within its borders? The answer was no.””

    In other words, the city of New Orleans blew off their end of the disaster plan, and are now trying to shift the blame to the federal government.

    Steve

  102. mahmood says:

    Re(1): Bahrain donates to Katrina’s aid effort

    No they are most definitely not. And if the various press reports are correct, they will be dissolved come next year… but then, we’ve been predicting its (timely) demise for years! Someone up there loves ’em.

    But disregard that for a moment, did you actually read the news item they put out? For god’s sake my 12-year-old could write a better and more cohesive news release. The grammatical and compositional errors there almost gave me a good headache coupled with dangerously high blood pressure.

  103. anonymous says:

    Re(2): Bahrain donates to Katrina’s aid effort

    Yeah I read it Mahmood. Problem is I have gotten so used to reading these piss poor written translations/ press releases that I don’t even notice how they are written anymore.

    Have some amber colored beverages and a few shawarma to lower your BP. Doctors oders…..

  104. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling – Update from San Antonio – pathetic situation

    [url=http://katrinahelp.blogspot.com/2005/09/update-from-san-antonio-pathetic.html] Update from San Antonio – pathetic situation[/url] (this came to us an hour ago)

    This letter from a lady in San Antonio is a reality check on the situation there.

    San Antonio: When the Astrodome started to totally be unable to take victims on Friday the 2nd, that afternoon and night, the busses destined for Houston —started heading directly here or to Dallas and rolling in here from Houston started constantly coming in by the hour. Our mayor went on TV Thur and Fri and said there would be possibly 25,000 coming in from every victim areas, his first assessment. The first place they filled were two schools and a large empty Toyota building with 3,000 and more people during Friday night. On Saturday night our residents were told that 8,000 were here in several “arena style” locations and expected it to be 13,000 by sunup this morning. If buses don’t find anything in Houston, they automatically head for San Antonio or Dallas.

    In trying to find a victim to house, it is just a major dead end situation here. [url=http://katrinahelp.blogspot.com/2005/09/update-from-san-antonio-pathetic.htmlRead More….[/url]

    (The KatrinaHelp Team)
    http://www.katrinahelp.info
    +15042081564 — local to Tulane, LA -24hrs/day/international

  105. mahmood says:

    Halliburton fixes Katrina’s mess

    Where can I buy shares in this company and be assured of a seat on the board?

  106. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    I actually think that katrina is as big as 9-11, and that this is the end of the bush administration – and the federal government’s reaction to this is going to cost the republican party .. the worse is yet to come methinks. wiat until the diseases start to grow – yes – third world diseases that the us thought they had eradicated … adn the best bit? no-one is going to question the logic of the right to ebar arms.

    someone said that if the hurricane had hit new england, the response would have been totally different. i have toa gre. during the la race riots, clinton called out the national guard. where was the federal planning for n’awlins??

    god bless the souls who were not able to make it through the hurricane and its aftermath, and may the spirit of the bayou forever remain alive. and steve – methinks the american doth protest too much. even fox broke down in its coverage and questioned the role of the bush administation. it takes one day for bush to leave crawford for terry schavio (sp).. and how many for katrina??

    i aint a bush lover, nor a bush hater – but – given that 200 new orleans policemen resigned, and a few committed suciide .. well, i do think that this might very well become the defining moment of the bush legacy! poor dubya .. spend and dont tax .. he thought that the bill would be paid on someone else’s watch .. am afraid the postman’s knockin on that door !

    jj

  107. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    Saudi Arabia was on the list of countries I posted.

    We have between 10,000 and 20,000 refugees here in Memphis. I spent the afternoon at church accepting and sorting donations for the Salvation Army’s relief work and I probably will do the same tomorrow. People are very generous. I’m probably going to talk to my husband about hosting a family, but I don’t know if he’ll go for it. It’ll probably be a several-months-long commitment. They need transportation for people, too, and laundry service and meal preparation. Outings for kids. Heck, outings for adults. At least the kids can go to school during the day.

    Laura

  108. anonymous says:

    Re(1): Katrina calling

    steve! am surprised! qatar is host to the biggest us base in the gulf … if i am not mistaken, a substantial amount of iraqi incursions were based from there ..

  109. anonymous says:

    Re(6): Katrina calling

    Surly you can walk to work for a while so the gas can be used to rescue people in N.O. but given you attitude on this site, not a chance.

  110. anonymous says:

    Re(7): Katrina calling

    More cheap shots from the peanut gallery.

    I note that you do not rebut any position I’ve taken with facts nor reason but are upset that people like think differently than you. Quite frankly, that’s rather typical of liberals who take their opinions from whatever is fashionable at the moment rather than following where the facts lead, however unfashionable.

    Steve

  111. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(2): Katrina calling

    Yes, I knew that and I knew they were in the Gulf but I didn’t remember precisely where. As I recall, 60 Minutes did a segment on the base there a year or two ago that mentioned that the locals did not like the base there nor the American presence but chose to ignore it.

    Steve

  112. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Bill

    Look at the picture in this topic of the buses, (100’s of them) sitting in 3-4 feet of water that the N.O. Mayor did not deploy. That picture is worth a 1000 words and 1000’s of lives. Lives of those who died because the City of N.O. did not do what needed to be done, what could have been done and what was clearly able to be done. Gross negligence is in that picture.

  113. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Funny, I’ve always figured you for a Bush hater, but I’ll take your word you think you are neutral. I totally disagree with your assessment of the situation. It’s painfully clear that the local and state officials blew it both before the hurricane and immediately afterwards.

    By the way as a New Englander who has lived through several hurricanes in the area including Cat 3, you are correct about the response here compared to what you are seeing in the gulf. Here people plan and prepare to be on their own for 10 to 14 days; you never see the NG and never see any federal help of any kind. Same as the ice storm of 98; we were without power, heat, gas etc in -20 degree weather for 14 days. There were no NG, federal help or fema. People prepared and looked after themselves and their neighbors and eventually the power company showed up. No one stood there and cried or swore at news reporters cause the news reporters didn’t show up either.

    So while you may be gleefully sitting there hoping it is the end of America, Bush and the republicans, you should realize that Americans are no more fooled by that stuff than there were by John Kerry. Keep dreaming, JJ

  114. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    [quote]JJ: I actually think that katrina is as big as 9-11, and that this is the end of the bush administration – and the federal government’s reaction to this is going to cost the republican party .. the worse is yet to come methinks. wiat until the diseases start to grow – yes – third world diseases that the us thought they had eradicated … adn the best bit? no-one is going to question the logic of the right to ebar arms.[/quote]

    We agree that Katrina is as big in casualties as Sep 11, probably bigger. It seems likely that after the city is drained and the houses are searched, there will be thousands of dead found in their homes. The disease problem is going to flare up for a while.

    I disagree that the Bush administration will suffer. The negativity and wildness of the Bush-haters will not sit well with most of America and will boomerang against them. When the facts are examined after emotions have cooled, the federal response will be seen to have gone according to the disaster plan agreed upon. They always planned for New Orleans to handle any crisis in the short term until the federal government came with massive aid in three to four days. The federal government came in three to four days but New Orleans city government did not execute its part of the plan. It folded.

    [quote]JJ: someone said that if the hurricane had hit new england, the response would have been totally different. i have toa gre. during the la race riots, clinton called out the national guard. where was the federal planning for n’awlins??[/quote]

    As pointed out above, the federal government executed its part of the plan. Claiming that the government ignored New Orleans because it was home to a lot of blacks or speculating that the government would have responded quicker to a whiter city is race-baiting.

    [quote]JJ: god bless the souls who were not able to make it through the hurricane and its aftermath, and may the spirit of the bayou forever remain alive. and steve – methinks the american doth protest too much. even fox broke down in its coverage and questioned the role of the bush administation. it takes one day for bush to leave crawford for terry schavio (sp).. and how many for katrina??[/quote]

    The Terry Schiavo case was decades in development, was easily understood, and presented clear alternatives. Katrina came quickly, was unpredictable, its effects were not immediately clear in detail, the best remedies were not immediately known. As I pointed out elsewhere, a presidential visit immediately after the hurricane hit would have impeded rescue efforts by diverting resources. An egotistical leader, like Clinton for example, would have rushed down to the scene of the disaster to milk the catastrophe for headlines. A better leader, like Bush, knows to stay out of the way of the people in the field when they are working hard.

    [quote]JJ: i aint a bush lover, nor a bush hater – but – given that 200 new orleans policemen resigned, and a few committed suciide .. well, i do think that this might very well become the defining moment of the bush legacy! poor dubya .. spend and dont tax .. he thought that the bill would be paid on someone else’s watch .. am afraid the postman’s knockin on that door ! [/quote]’r

    JJ, most people in the Middle East are reflexive Bush critics and you are no exception. You’re like most partisan American Democrats in that you love a guy who talks a good game and are indifferent to the actual results.

    And really, you are blaming problems with the New Orleans police on Bush? Bush runs the federal government. He has nothing to do with city governments nor their police departments. When you try to reassign the blame for local police problems on the President, you really are showing a desperate effort to criticize Bush with anything, however unlikely.

    The New Orleans police have been a problem for a very long time. They are among the lowest paid police in the country, which has tended to feed the problem of corruption by attracting poor recruits and encouraging them to seek money on the side. They have a reputation for escalating simple conflicts into violent confrontations very suddenly. Everyone knows not to screw around with the New Orleans cops when they confront you because they are likely to beat you up right there. This is a measure of their lack of professionalism. Good cops are trained to defuse situations in many ways. New Orleans cops don’t get that training.

    Consequently, the New Orleans cops broke when the crisis hit them because they are a poorly trained and managed force. A third of the force did not show up for work after the hurricane. A couple hundred resigned when shot at. Some joined the looters. A couple killed themselves. This is the behavior of an undisciplined organization, one step up from rent-a-cops at the local mall.

    By contrast, the police in NYC all showed up after Sep 11. Off duty cops rushed to the scene. Even retired cops showed up to work. None resigned. None looted the city. None killed themselves. That is the behavior of a discipline police force. If only New Orleans had one.

    Steve

  115. chalk66x says:

    Katrina calling

    Well we have had a week or so to sort out the mess of Katrina. My thoughts so far.

    1. You cant expect a state to be ready for a disaster this big its beyond their assets.
    2. The war in Iraq has siphoned off to much money and to many NG troops.
    3. Bush is being blamed for something out of his control.
    3. We cant rely on the Feds to protect us.
    4. Like usual the race card was played for nothing more than publicity.

    My Solutions

    1. The obvious need was for quick response which means helicopters proposition in hurricane prone areas and earthquake prone areas and not in Iraq.
    2. An overhaul of flood insurance. Your flooded out fine we will pay for it once next time you build in the same place your on your own.
    3. They are right keep a week of food and a gun although they wont tell you to keep a gun.
    and finally
    4. Privatizing of homeland security under Halliburton. 🙂

    billT

    [Modified by: billT (billT) on September 04, 2005 02:34 PM]

  116. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    1. You cant expect a state to be ready for a disaster this big its beyond their assets.
    1. The obvious need was for quick response which means helicopters proposition in hurricane prone areas and earthquake prone areas and not in Iraq.

    Bill, the problem stems not from lack of supplies. The New Orleans emergency plan included use of the buses and school buses, which now sit underwater, unused – as only one example.

    The problem was complete breakdown of control and command.

    The New Orleans Head of the DHS complained about lack of command and control from FEMA. … The NO DHS guy -is- FEMA’s command and control at the local level. Utter incompetance at the local and state level turned a disadter into an epic disaster.

    –Ethan

  117. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re(5): Katrina calling

    Anon: “The black populations in the United States have NEVER been a priority for the government – especially a Republican government.”

    The first Republican administration in the US freed the slaves, which profoundly affected the black population for the better. They ran Freedmen’s Bureaus after the war to help them. They took on the first incarnation of the Ku Klux Klan.

    It was the Republicans who provided the majority of the votes in Congress to pass LBJ’s civil rights laws. It was the military, which is two thirds Republican, which first successfully integrated in the 1950s, providing a model colorblind meritocracy for the rest of society. The civil service of the federal government has gone largely black. Reagan’s economic policies minted more black millionaires than ever in history to that time. Bush’s cabinet has sported two black secretaries, State and National Security Advisor.

    That seems a pretty decent effort to me. But for some, bogus charges of racism never lose their appeal and are used to intimidate and defame.

    Steve

  118. anonymous says:

    Re(6): Katrina calling

    Steve

    Don’t forget it was NIXON who signed into law most of the Cival Rights laws we have now if I do remember my history.

  119. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Good for you, Laura. Those people from New Orleans are lucky to have folks like you pitching in.

    Steve

  120. mahmood says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    Yes indeed, I second Steve, well done and God bless your efforts.

  121. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    BillT: “1. You cant expect a state to be ready for a disaster this big its beyond their assets.”

    It’s beyond the federal gummint’s capability, too. It’s a Titanic-like reminder that Nature can trump man’s best efforts.

    BillT: “2. The war in Iraq has siphoned off to much money and to many NG troops.”

    Nonsense. The relief effort has not been hampered for lack of men nor material nor cash. The critical failures were due to lack of communication and poor local leadership.

    BillT: “3. Bush is being blamed for something out of his control.”

    Quite so. The strategy of the left is to throw any mud at hand at Bush all the time, everywhere, in the hope that some of it sticks. It doesn’t need to make sense.

    It looks to me that the problem with this catastrophe is that Katrina punched a big hole in communications in New Orleans. It looks like it took a day for enough of the puzzle pieces to be assembled to get a picture of what was happenning.

    BillT: “3. We cant rely on the Feds to protect us.”

    Agreed. You should rely first and foremost on yourself. Nobody has your own interests and well-being at heart than you. When The Big Hammer In The Sky is headed your way, it’s time to leave and protect your interests. If you can’t leave, then you should have enough supplies and tools to last you a week until you can forage for them. Help yourself and your community first, and welcome any help the Big Dumb Gummint can deliver later. Remember that the Gummint is a big, dumb, clumsy, fumble-fingered giant which will have trouble finding your home, will come late, will eventually bring you help you don’t need, may create more problems than it solves, will want to take over and undo the good things you’ve done, and plague you with paperwork afterward.

    BillT: “4. Like usual the race card was played for nothing more than publicity.”

    When I saw Jesse Jackson in New Orleans, back from his latest love-fest with Hugo Chavez, ranting on CNN about how slavery was the reason people were stranded in New Orleans, I nearly lost my lunch. Jackson runs a corrupt Rainbow/PUSH organization that carries his pregnant girlfriends on the payroll, has no organized financial statement, forgets to file its income tax statements, and is funded by extorting cash from legitimate businesses with bogus claims of racism – and he is telling competent people how they should run a giant disaster recovery enterprise. As Marion Barry, former mayor of Washington, DC said, “Jesse don’t know how to run anything but his mouth.”

    BillT: “My Solutions, 1. The obvious need was for quick response which means helicopters proposition in hurricane prone areas and earthquake prone areas and not in Iraq.”

    Helicopters are pretty fragile machines, as are all aircraft. It’s best to keep them out of heavy weather and fly them in afterwards. It doesn’t make much sense to keep your choppers at home in case a massive hurricane might hit someday when they are needed now to save lives in Iraq. That said, the bottlenecks in New Orleans air rescue don’t seem to be the number of helicopters but rather air traffic control and places to take the rescued.

    I might also point out that the bulk of the US military remains at home. For example, while 3000 of the Louisiana National Guard are in Iraq, 5000 are home in Louisiana. Likewise, the bulk of our aircraft are at home, not engaged in Iraq.

    BillT: “2. An overhaul of flood insurance. Your flooded out fine we will pay for it once next time you build in the same place your on your own.”

    That’s what FEMA did in the great Mississippi flooding in 1993. They declared flood plains where you live at your own risk. Sounds like a good idea.

    BillT: “3. They are right keep a week of food and a gun although they wont tell you to keep a gun.”

    I would think that most people have a week of food on hand in their cupboard. You might want to get some MREs from the local supply store and stash them in the trunk of your car. I have a few days worth along with an entrenching tool, handy for digging the car out of trouble. Katrina showed me that a hand axe is a necessary tool. A lot of folks drowned in their attics when the water rose. The survivors cut through their roofs. While I don’t anticipate that scenario, it’s pretty obvious that an axe would come in handy in clearing wreckage and fallen trees.

    It’s probably a good idea to take your camping equipment more seriously, instead of considering it a lark. You should probably have a tent that can hold your entire family with sleeping bags, cookware, etc. Your camping trips should have an ulterior purpose of testing your readiness for a disaster where you rely on your camping gear.

    A gun is a good thing to have. I note that the armed thugs were only roaming in the city, not the suburbs. I’d recommend a shotgun full of birdshot to encourage looters and other undesirables to move on. You probably don’t actually want to hurt somebody seriously and you don’t want to fire bullets which may overpenetrate walls to strike the innocent.

    You’ll need light in the form of flashlights, camp lights, etc. That means you need to change your batteries every year and stockpile enough to get you through a week. When Hurricane Isabel came to DC a couple years ago, batteries and flashlights disappeared off the shelves a couple days in advance. Don’t count on getting them when the need arises.

    I also have this excellent emergency radio that runs on batteries, home current, or a hand crank and receives AM, FM, and shortwave broadcasts. You don’t want to be the last one to know that Martians have landed to destroy your city and are headed for your neighborhood.

    BillT: “4. Privatizing of homeland security under Halliburton.”

    There is a spark of genius in this. Halliburton has proven in Iraq and elsewhere that they are much better at big ad hoc projects than the government, which spent much of Katrina tripping over its own bureaucracy. I don’t imagine Halliburton would have left 500 city buses to drown had they been in charge of evacuation in New Orleans.

    Steve

  122. [deleted]0.18665800 1099323648.207 says:

    … please don’t forget about all the animals!

    < < In response to the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina, The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) has launched a massive relief effort to rescue animals and assist their caregivers in the disaster areas. Our highly trained Disaster Animal Response Teams are in New Orleans and Mississippi coordinating a multi-state animal rescue and recovery effort. We now have more than 200 people on the ground doing search-and-rescue and staffing temporary shelters, and have rescued more than a thousand animals in the hardest hit areas of both states since Friday. >>

    [img]http://www.sandeeland.com/images/180x180_katrina_banner_hsus.jpg[/img]

    [url]https://secure.hsus.org/01/disaster_relief_fund_2005?[/url]

  123. anonymous says:

    Re(7): Katrina calling

    No, that was Johnson, and he was a Democrat

  124. anonymous says:

    Re(1): Katrina, The Drink

    Yikes, BM. New Orleans will be a madhouse on Mardi Gras.

    Steve

  125. anonymous says:

    Re(2): Katrina, The Drink

    Hey I never claimed I was SANE!

    Bonsaimark

  126. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Katrina, The Drink

    Two sleazy Louisiana lawyers (forgive the redundancy) filed a logo with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office bearing the name “Katrina” and the logo “Get Blown Away” for alcoholic beverages.

    And so the first part of my prophecy is coming true. Anyone care to bet there will be no Mardi Gras in New Orleans this year?

    Told ya so,

    Steve

  127. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina, The Drink

    Steve

    I propose a Mtv reader meetup in NO during Mardis Gras. Anyone else interested?

    Bonsaimark

  128. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling People shouldn’t speak on things they have no Knowledge off.

    Thought you might be interested in the story of someone who was at the
    Convention Center. A different take from what the media is portraying.

    There’s always always always 2 sides to a story.
    Please Forward Widely:

    -(from a friend at the Univ of Texas. It seems to me that everyone
    should hear this – it’s so easy to believe that it was mad gangs with
    guns roaming New Orleans as we have been told when in fact there is
    another story to tell)

    *The following message is from an african-american former graduate
    student at UT. she, lisa moore, whom i don’t know, is writing about
    what her aunt, denise, told her. i begin in mid-message.*

    The buses came and took them to the Ernest Memorial Convention Center.
    (yes, the convention center you’ve all seen on TV.)

    Denise said she thought she was in hell. they were there for 2 days,
    with no water, no food. no shelter. Denise, her mother (63 years old),
    her niece (21 years old), and 2-year-old grandniece. when they arrived,
    there were already thousands of people there.
    They were told that buses were coming. police drove by, windows rolled
    up, thumbs up signs. national guard trucks rolled by, completely empty,
    soldiers with guns cocked and aimed at them. nobody stopped to drop off
    water. a helicopter dropped a load of water, but all the bottles
    exploded on impact due to the height of the helicopter.

    The first day (Wednesday) 4 people died next to her.
    The second day (Thursday) 6 people died next to her.
    Denise told me the people around her all thought they had been sent
    there to die. again, nobody stopped. the only buses that came were
    full; they dropped off more and more people, but nobody was being picked up
    and taken away. they found out that those being dropped off had been
    rescued from rooftops and attics; they got off the buses delirious from
    lack of water and food. completely dehydrated.

    The crowd tried to keep them all in one area; Denise said the new
    arrivals had mostly lost their minds. they had gone crazy.

    Inside the convention center, the place was one huge bathroom. in order
    to defecate, you had to stand in other people’s defecate. the floors
    were black and slick with defecate. most people stayed outside because
    the smell was so bad. but outside wasn’t much better: between the heat,
    the humidity, the lack of water, the old and very young dying from
    dehydration… and there was no place to lay down, not even room on the
    sidewalk. they slept outside Wednesday night, under an overpass.

    Denise said yes, there were young men with guns there. but they
    organized the crowd. they went to Canal Street and “looted,” and
    brought back food and water for the old people and the babies, because nobody
    had eaten in days. when the police rolled down windows and yelled out
    “the buses are coming,” the young men with guns organized the crowd in
    order: old people in front, women and children next, men in the back.
    just so that when the buses came, there would be priorities of who got
    out first.

    Denise said the fights she saw between the young men with guns were
    fist fights. she saw them put their guns down and fight rather than shoot up
    the crowd. but she said that there were a handful of people shot in the
    convention center; their bodies were left inside, along with other dead
    babies and old people.

    Denise said the people thought there were being sent there to die.
    lots of people being dropped off, nobody being picked up. cops passing
    by, speeding off. national guard rolling by with guns aimed at them.
    and yes, a few men shot at the police, because at a certain point all the
    people thought the cops were coming to hurt them, to kill them all. she
    saw a young man who had stolen a car speed past, cops in pursuit; he
    crashed the car, got out and ran, and the cops shot him in the back. in
    front of the whole crowd.

    She saw many groups of people decide that they were going to walk
    across the bridge to the west bank, and those same groups would return, saying
    that they were met at the top of the bridge by armed police ordering
    them to turn around, that they weren’t allowed to leave.

    so they all believed they were sent there to die.

    Denise’s niece found a pay phone, and kept trying to call her mother’s
    boyfriend in Baton Rouge, and finally got through and told him where
    they were. the boyfriend, and Denise’s brother, drove down from Baton
    Rouge and came and got them. they had to bribe a few cops, and talk a
    few into letting them into the city (“come on, man, my 2-year-old niece
    is at the Convention Center!”), then they took back roads to get to
    them.

    After arriving at my other cousin’s apartment in Baton Rouge, they saw
    the images on TV, and couldn’t believe how the media was portraying the
    people of New Orleans. she kept repeating to me on the phone last
    night: make sure you tell everybody that they left us there to die.
    nobody came. those young men with guns were protecting us. if it wasn’t
    for them, we wouldn’t have had the little water and food they had
    found.

    that’s Denise Moore’s story.
    Lisa C. Moore

    _____________________________

  129. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    I wonder about some of you who sit behind cpu’s in comfort and AC complaining about how you THINK people should act who’ve seen people die right beside them or almost died themselves.

    Who watched loved ones die and children cry non stop. Who endure sitting beside hard working honest people, crack heads, criminals, the mental ill, the elderly without any police protection for DAYS.

    Have you ever been days without AC, without the option to a shower, and a restroom? Have you had to use the bathroom in front of strangers outside in public for all to see? Did you watch your wife and children go through the same humiliation? Have you gone days without food or water? Did you give your children to rescue sevices because they promise they would come right back to get you only to have them never return? You spend fond moments on the roof straving to death, water rising, smelling something beyond explanation in the water, trying to reserve energy but getting some sleep but you can’t because you’re being bit by large mosquitoes from hell? Some of you act like these COUNTRY/ CITY people go threw a major flood every weekend and should have just sat idle waiting for someone to come with a smile on their faces. Some of your reasoning is sick, pompous, and elitist.

    Hello, wake up call.

    You can’t in ANY way compare 911 to NO. 911 didn’t shut down water, food, medical, or transportation in and out of the city for DAYS! People could still get home the same day and use the restroom, get something to eat, take a hot shower, turn on the AC and watch the horror on TV from the comfort of their homes. Oh, and they didn’t have to waddle in waters filled with lord knows what to get home either.

    These basic functions become luxury when you don’t have it. Most AMERICANS have NEVER been without it. Nor, have practiced for the day when they MIGHT have to live without it. So again, WTH are some you talking about??? Ya Allah SWT, where is the mercy, compassion for people without? SHAME
    —————————————–

    Thurman said the BUCK STOPS HERE. Of course he said it after he had already made some wild decisions and was on his way out of the White House. Like it or not the BUCK always sticks with the Commander and Chief. At least 18 people or more should be fired or jailed for negligent duty. WTH are we paying people for? When you take certain positions in the GOV you are responsible for the WELLFARE of the people. When you grossly fall sort of that duty, heads should roll.

    When Florida was hit hard last year (I think) with a hurricane. Bush flew his A$$ down there almost immediately and promised quick payouts for people in need. The next day his brother, the FEMA chief and the President where out in force giving out checks to people personally.

    I don’t know about the race. His actions speak louder than anything. It’s the way he reacted to the problem that’s the PROBLEM. This might have more to do with who voted for him and who didn’t. It’s clear that aid gets to areas faster that voted form him. NO was hit the hardest but he didn’t go there 1st. He went to a republican state 1st. That is so sad and sick and we should call ANY politician out when they play favorites like.

    FEMA should have never been put under homeland security.
    FEMA has ALWAY set up command and control centers DAYS before a natural disaster hits, so why not now?

    Some of you say the deserve it they should have left on there own. I know for a fact Natural disaster warnings come across my TV at least 3 times a year. Shelters are opened and they pick up elders and people suck in hopistals. I can honestly say that I myself have never left and went to the shelter. Nor has anyone in my Neighborhood and i live in downtown DC. Do you go seek sheltor everytime that weather warning goes across your TV?

  130. anonymous says:

    Katrina calling

    It is funny to see so many opinions about something that everyone seems to have so much knowledge about but no one knows anything about. I was on one of those buses that went back and forth to New Orleans when the flood first hit. I saw the people being herded onto buses and airplanes by man with automatic rifles. I saw men being put on one bus and women and children being put on other ones. (For their safety of course!) No one took the time to think families were being separated. No one took the time to tell these people where the bus or airplane they were getting on was going. When one of them asked, they were told they would find out when they got there.

    Perhaps race had nothing to do with the way these people were treated; however when I was there the only faces I saw where those of poor black people. Now maybe it had more to do with economics than race. Everyone knows New Orleans is an urban city almost 75% black. Not very many of the people that were left behind were middle or upper class; and if they were, they were some of the first to be rescued because they called someone who called someone and sent a chopper or boat to get them.

    Now that the water has receded and the levees still have not been patch, it is that same group of people that could not get out of the city during the flood, finding it hard to get back in. Their homes have not been gutted, the debris is nowhere near removed, and they can forget affording a hotel room if they are lucky enough to get a reservation.

    So we the people of Louisiana are waiting for the federal government, Bush or whoever, to come down to the bayou state and actually get off of Air Force One and out of the French Quarters and see the parts of New Orleans that need their HELP.

    Why is it when something happens in another country the feds are quick to write a check for whatever they need? Instead the state of Louisiana has gotten a bill for the $1.7 million FEMA says we owe them already. Where they not paying attention to 1/3 of our states total income being washed away by a flood? Do we have to allow a dictator to come to power in Louisiana for them to help us rebuild? Someone tell us what we need to do, because we are all at a lose and we still have people as far away as Alaska that want to come home!

    [b]PLEASE DISREGARD MY RAMBULING BUT NOT MY STATEMENTS! [/b]

  131. anonymous says:

    Re: Katrina calling

    [quote]Thurman said the BUCK STOPS HERE.[/quote]

    You need a history lesson and/or a spell checker.

  132. [deleted]0.95776700 1099323586.392 says:

    Re: Katrina calling People shouldn’t speak on things they have no Knowledge off.

    I don’t believe this account, which includes assertions known to be false. By the emailers own account, it is purportedly from a friend who knows a girl who is telling what her aunt told her. Sheesh!

    This bogus account claims ten people died next to her. Only six people died in the Superdome. One was a suicide, one an overdose, and four from natural causes. She claims old people and babies were lying dead in the Superdome. I don’t believe any babies died in the Superdome. It appears the four dead of natural causes were elderly.

    Ms. Bogus claims to have seen a handful of people shot in the Superdome. Nobody was shot in the Superdome.

    I doubt that the National Guard was aiming their guns at the crowd. My suspicions are raised by Ms. Bogus claim that their guns were cocked. Now how exactly could she tell that?

    I also doubt the whole story about guys running around the Superdome with guns. Guns and drugs were taken from the folks as they came through the security checkpoints to get in the Superdome. They certainly would not going back and forth with guns to loot food and bring it back.

    It sounds like a fabrication.

    Steve

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