Terrorists should dress like Americans!

25 Apr, '07

I don’t even want to start to comment on my anger at this. But watch it yourself and reach your own conclusions.

Bruce Shneier via BoingBoing

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Comments (77)

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  1. Bernie says:

    I’m almost lost for words.

    On the one hand it’s the worst kind of humour in the worst possible taste and on the other it proves just how bigoted and racist the world really is helped along by an extreme right wing press.

    I do know I find it extremely distasteful.

  2. Loki says:

    I thought this was both hilarious and interesting. Am I missing someting??

  3. Tom says:

    Why are you supposedly against terrorism ?

    quran 9:111 – all muslims kill and are killed for allah – or they go to hell.

    I mean you’re supposed to be a muslim, right ? Suicide terror is just the quickest way. Why not just face it ? Muslims are violent. Even if a muslim dislikes violence he should commit it :

    quran 2:216 – all muslims should fight, even those who dislike fighting – because allah knows better

  4. Esra\'a says:

    I think they are indirectly making fun of misleading stereotypes. They are mocking how paranoid people are whenever they see an Arab in the traditional clothing, and God forbid if he has a beard plus a camera minding his own business because that just beeps every security alarm. It’s a satirical peace on the “war on terror,” with I think one of the claims being “where the hell is the threat?!”

    But I must admit that these kinds of jokes, generally, are quickly becoming tiring to sit through. I mean, after 5 freaking years of “wow guyz, how about them arabz? LOL beards!! towel headz camel jockies omg sooo funny” you just ache for something actually funny and original.

    What I find to be disturbing is most of the YouTube comments… sigh, some people.

  5. Esra'a says:

    Tom give us a break. My response to you would be this post.

  6. mahmood says:

    Tom is back with his scratched old record stating EXACTLY what he has done in the past, he must have this “provocative” post saved on his desktop to paste into websites and then never has the cojones to stick around to debate them.

    Ignore the troll please and carry on with intelligent discussions if you wish.

  7. Barry says:

    Personally, I wish youtube would take out the comment feature. It’s amazing how bigoted, prejudiced, and just plain willfully ignorant most of the people there are.

  8. Aliandra says:

    Well, that’s a pretty bad imitation of an American accent by that British actor.

    Cheer up, my friends. Some poll I saw taken in Britain had the British saying Americans were the biggest threat in the world. :devil:

  9. Esra'a says:

    That’s because 99% of the UK consists of Indians and Pakistanis. KIDDING.

    Anyways, Barry, one has the option of removing the comment feature on YouTube. But it’s still freaky knowing that in the minds of many, they are thinking these things… Very painful to sit through. Though many of them are just kids using mommy’s computer after school. I hope they’ll grow up soon enough.

  10. Borat says:

    TOM!!
    Are you a Jew?

  11. can we talk says:

    Well, that’s a pretty bad imitation of an American accent by that British actor.

    Cheer up, my friends. Some poll I saw taken in Britain had the British saying Americans were the biggest threat in the world.

    i believe the British actor was Australian. and i believe the poll (not 100% sure, but if my memory serves me correctly) said that the US was the biggest threat, not Americans, as in the government not the people. my unscientific guess would be that sadly, a lot of people would agree with that.

    i think the video is great because it shows in black and white to some people who dont believe stuff until they see it (even if it is only comedy) how bigoted some policies are. there’s a lot of that sort of thing in British tv as well. i think being able to recognize your faults and make fun of them is a great step in critical thinking and objectivity. if you can do it with humour, you get a bigger audience and more people might reflect on their own attitudes. which is a good thing.
    we need more of that in our neck of the woods.

  12. jared in nyc says:

    reminds me a little of the hilarious Daily Show segment some years back when Jon Stewart introducted the Benjamin Moore racial profiling color wheel. Dark brown is now OK, it’s shades of butterscotch that will get you in trouble these days.

  13. Tom says:

    I have asked you once to debate this. You pointed me to a thread with over 500 messages that seemed to go about other things.

    If you want to debate this, I’d LOVE to debate it with you, you have my mailadres, and via that route I ALSO asked you to explain it to me.

    What bothers me about your reply is that it is 0% religious. If you want to provide an answer to “is islam violent”, I am very very sorry, but you will have to use the quran to be anywhere near believeable.

    So if you have the “cojones” debate me, right here. So why don’t we start with this first verse 9:111 that clearly states that all muslims have a contract with allah : muslims kill and allah gets them to paradise. That’s clearly what it says. It does not contain any limitations as to time, or place, and if you look at it’s context you will only make it worse. It does not say anything different in arabic.

    Therefore, islam demands of each and every muslim to kill. If you’re reply to this is “but look ! I am not a killer” then the response of me (and of many muslims) will simply be “then you’re not a muslim either”.

    So show you “cojones” and reply to this. Or reply by mail. I’d love for someone to prove me wrong, seriously.

  14. Tom says:

    Oh and the context clearly states that it does not talk about defensive warfare, before you try to make that point. Amongst others 9:123 clearly shows that there can never be peace with muslims.

    Sorry about my agitated post but if someone first states by mail “I will not debate this with you” in mail and later states I do not have the “cojones” to debate you, this is turning the world upside down.

    I am VERY happy that you do not kill. Very nice. I do not see what that has to do with the islam. There are barely any muslims that follow the quran these days. I know that. That however, does not change a single letter in the quran. The quran clearly states you will go to hell for not killing. But of course islam and the quran have nothing to do with eachother, right ? Every single authorative source I can dig up, both sunni and shi’a tafseer for example, confirms this, but again, those things have nothing to do with islam, right ?

    If you are ashamed about what’s in your “holy” text, then you are not a muslim, and you are a pussy to not admit it. You have no honor and Mohamed and I do agree on one thing : that which should happen to the hypocrites.

  15. can we talk says:

    Tom,
    as far as i can see, your questions have nothing to do with the subject of this thread. is it just me or did i miss something??? how did you make the leap?

    also, you have already made up your mind and have judged all muslims who agree with you and all muslims who don’t, so why would anyone want to debate the matter with you? what would be the point?

    that’s all have to say to you
    over and out

  16. Kevin says:

    I’m appalled at how unfashionably the “American” was dressed. Made us look bad.

    Everyone knows the “ugly american” has been replaced by the Germans in their Jesus boots (socks and sandals)

  17. M says:

    “Everyone knows the “ugly american” has been replaced by the Germans in their Jesus boots (socks and sandals)”

    Nah, that’s only for you flatlanders from Massachusetts and the “big city folk.” These guys look just like everyone I see every day on the streets up here in the backwoods including the women! :shocked: Take that back; the women wear more colorful flannels.

  18. Pamela says:

    sigh,

    When I vist a muslim country, I do abide by customs and wear the headscarf etc…

    It is true there are allot of violent chapters and verses in the bible. I get enraged when folks like the ones from the Westboro Baptist Church invade peoples privacy at funerals for the fallen of wars and tragedies.

    I feel very lucky that I can speak my mind about my faith and not worry that I will face severe reprisals.

    I pray the muslim world gets that freedom as well. I have more muslim friends, who I consider my brothers and sisters. I want that freedom for them, and others.

    God Bless those with minds to discern
    God help those who don’t

    just my opinion.

  19. Tom says:

    @can we talk

    The original comment had to do with the subject of this thread. My two last posts were a reply to mahmood. Muslims shouldn’t complain about terror, or being called terrorists, since the quran itself calls muslims terrorists (it calls muslims people who kill in the name of religion, and enjoins terror as a constant strategy to be followed by muslims).

    And I would like you to answer the same question then : what exactly is wrong with judging muslims by the quran ? Do tell. If you don’t like the quran, if you don’t want to be associated with it, then DONT FOLLOW IT, become an atheist or whatever. What, exactly, is wrong with judging muslims by the quran ?

    And what exactly is wrong with calling people who knowingly do not follow the quran non-muslims ?

    I see no wrong with either of these things. If that means I’m a racist in your mind, then by all means, call me a racist. Note that, again, mahmood declares me “afraid of discussion” and follows up by not replying to my posts, exactly what I described he would do. But, let’s say he just didn’t had the time yet and a satisfactory reply is forthcoming …

  20. Tom says:

    And about the right bar here, that muslims don’t respect human rights, well, bahrain never signed the declaration human rights, it only signed the cairo declaration, which is entirely a different beast

    -> it does not guarantee freedom of religion
    -> it does not guarantee freedom of speech
    -> it does not guarantee equality
    -> it clearly states that sharia punishments take precedence over human rights

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_in_Islam

    Also article 2 of the bahrain constitution obviously overrides article 23, so what mahmoud is complaining about is beyond me. He’ll get the door slammed in his face at the trial, and that will be a correct judgement for the laws of bahrain. There is no freedom of thought, let alone speech, in islam. So you can’t expect an islamic government to uphold these values.

    That is, more expanded, my original post. Muslims don’t have freedom of speech, and under an islamic government they should fall in line with the thought police, or die. That is what islam demands.

  21. Pamela says:

    Tom, right now it is about 2:45AM in Bahrain, he is probably sleeping.

  22. Esra'a says:

    Tom, are you the Patrick Buchanan of the blogosphere or what? Be quiet! We are trying to have an interesting discussion here and you are trolling the thread with unneeded and false remarks about something you are hardly an expert on. If Muslim and Islam offend you so much try Barney.com for appropriate material.

  23. Borat says:

    TOM!!
    Are you sure you are reading the verses from Quran or may be you are holding you religious book upside down and reading from it thinking it’s Quran.. If ISLAM was the religion of destruction and killing everyone why is it that it is the worlds fastest growing religion..Quran never states that we have a “CONTRACT” with ALLAH that we have to kill everyone…get your head out of your ass and try too look for the depth of the meaning what it exactly says…may be you forgot to read the rest of the verse ahead of it..try to do so, it will probably make more sence to you…You are just pissed that we muslime are believers and our religion is religion of PEACE…and if you are calling ISLAM dangerous for the whole world just remember that CHRISTIANITY and JUDISM both go hand in hand together…we alll have same Prophets JESUS,NOAH,etc..except that us MUSLIMS were not foolish to change our book according to our needs and belive what it says…And look at you stating verse from QURAN…Wonder how much have you actually studied it before farting something stupid like that. But you know what it is all good….Since ur stinks ass is from Belgium i dont expect anything thing from you ..people like you who think from there ASS HOLES give that kindda name for your country..

  24. Borat says:

    AND also TOM i am sorry to say that your best source is from wikipedia which is the most unreliable web-site because any ignorant ass hole like you can put up the information on it without any proper facts…
    P.S: How does it feel to be bitch slapped back on the face…If you would have carried the conversation in a decent manner you wouldnt have been gettin your ass kiked and i feel sorry that your ancestors ass was kiked by the GERMANS “NOTE: NOT MUSLIMS”….Besides all the major was started by NON-MUSLIMS..how does that sound ASS-HOLE

  25. Borat says:

    except that us MUSLIMS were not foolish to change our book according to our needs and belive what it says

    correction on comment 23

    except that us MUSLIMS were not foolish to change our book according to our needs and

    believe in what it does not say

  26. Borat says:

    ALSO TOM!!!
    I THINK YOU ARE THE DUMBEST PERSON ON THIS EARTH TO JUDGE A RELIGION ON FEW CRAZY PEOPLE WHO BLOW THEMSELVES UP IN THE NAME OF RELIGION WHICH BY THE WAY IS NOT STATED ANYWHERE IN QURAN BY MY KNOWLEDGE OR NOR DOES QURAN OR ISLAM SUPPORTS SUCH ACTIONS..SO WHY DONT YOU GO AHEAD AND TRY TO LOOK FOR THE VERSE WHERE IT SAYS FORGIVE YOUR ENEMY OR THE ONE WHO GIVES YOU PAIN OR IS IGNORANT JUST LIKE YOU…
    YOU KNOW WHAT IF YOU SAY THAT NON OF MUSLIMS FOLLOW QURAN LET ME PROVE YOU WRONG HERE “ I FORGIVE YOU FOR BEING STUPID AND IGNORANT PERSON WHO HAS NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ONE THING AND YET TRY TO PROVE IT WITH YOUR BRAIN FART..ITS NOT YOUR FAULT ITS JUST THAT COMMON SENSE IS NOT COMMON THESE DAYS AND YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WITHOUT COMMON SENSE…I FORGIVE YOU FOR YOUR DUMB COMMENTS”

  27. Ash says:

    It’s Aussie, not British (the Sydney Harbour Bridge is kind of a clue …). Seems to me that the sketch is highlighting the crassness of the “war on terror” by showing how it is informed by absurd stereotypes. Similar gags are common in Britain too, including the “Comedy Terrorist” who dressed like a pantomime Bin Laden and gatecrashed Prince William’s birthday party a few years ago (the “Comedy Terrorist” wasn’t actually funny, so his career was shortlived – a 5-minute career …). Anyway, my point is that the butt of the joke here is the people who believe in such ridiculous stereotypes and not the culture with which the stereotype is associated.

    It’s the Toms of this world, not the Mahmoods, who are actually the butt of this joke.

    @ Borat – your comments are the mirror image of Tom’s. The way he thinks about Muslims is the way you obviously think about Jews. Get a life, both of you. The joke here is on hatefilled stereotyping idiots like you two.

  28. can we talk says:

    God, i miss British TV. ..sigh! “eight out of ten cats”and sattire programming..
    i wish we had programming like that here.. the only remotely funny intelligent stuff thing we get here is Jay Leno’s monologue

  29. mahmood says:

    Tom, my reply to you is this and of course that thread with 500 comments you are too lazy to investigate.

    I suggest other than barney.com try Dr. Phil, Oprah or any just graduated psychologist who might help you alleviate the hate that fills you.

    Now bugger off, once and for all.

  30. Redbelt says:

    Leave Tom to me. I’m used to this. Gotta have breakfast first.
    As for the video: its very real! That is the attitude world wide. which is only normal. generlizations are in our genes as it speeds up the learning process. example: when a kid gets burned, he avoids all things that glow the same, be it fire or a white hot iron rod.
    It take concious effort to filter these generlisations

  31. Tom says:

    @Borat

    “Quran never states that we have a “CONTRACT” with ALLAH that we have to kill”

    Then what’s this from ? Arabian nights ? (Verse 9:111 )

    “Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.”

    There is a “bargain”, a “covenant”, … between allah and muslims : they fight, kill and be killed, he gets them to “paradise”.

    This, obviously, proves that allah is the devil. That’s how the devil works : he “contracts” sins from his followers, from his victims, who then have to wear his mark. And then he throws them in hell.

  32. Complexated says:

    Hi all. This clip is from a program called “The Chaser’s War On Everything” on the ABC (one of Australia’s government-run TV networks). The video podcasts can be found here.

    I would hope that people don’t make the inference that Australians find stereotypical representations of people funny. Possibly, most of the 1.2 million people (over 5% of the population) who saw that sketch would either a.) think it to be a set-up for cheap laughs or b.) consider the actions of security to be thoroughly appaling and inconsistent with many Australians’ values.

    That said, Australia has a chequered past when it comes to

  33. John G says:

    “Religion is the opiate of the people”, a mechanism whereby a small number of people can control a large number of people,usually by fear of violence.A bit like communism. Both systems work by creating a fear of an enemy, by which the elite can exert justify their actions. Blair and Bush are using this method to increase their control over their people by reducing their freedoms in the name of the “fight against terror”.
    What unsettles me is the sheer barbarity of Muslim extremeists,beheading schoolgirls in Indonesia,killing teachers in Thailand, the list goes on and on. What I find disappointing is the silence of the mainstream Muslim block. This creates the fear in the West that this shows that whilst not condoning these these actions,a certain amount of passive agreement with them exists.
    The Shia/Sunni dynamic worries me as much,if Muslims cannot live together what chance is there of them co-existing in any form of harmony with the non-Muslim world?.
    The Muslim religion has existed for roughly the same length of time as Christianity, but whilst Western Christianity has matured into a more passive religion after the blood letting of the medieval and dark ages I am afraid to say that Muslims havn’t,if anything they are getting more agressive.
    If all Muslims were like our friend Mahmood things would be fine, but the vested interests and power brokers will not let him and his like access to power, look at the problems he faces in his own small country at the moment. I am afraid that free speech does not exist in the Muslim world. Even last week 3 bible sellers were slaughtered in secular Turkey.
    My personalthought is that ,unfortunately the Muslim world is as great a threat to the West as the Nazis were, put other unstable countries like North Korea into the mix and I fear for the world.

  34. mahmood says:

    I wouldn’t fear for the world so much John G as I fear extremists like you!

    the Muslim world is as great a threat to the West as the Nazis were

    This is incredulous. You ramble on about freedoms and opiates and then come to this conclusion?

    Incredulous!

  35. John G says:

    Look around you my friend, can you defend the indefensible? The Muslim world is imploding,an implosion is followed by an explosion.You are a moderate, educated,wealthy Muslim, unfortunately a minority in your own world. I admire you in your struggle for freedom but I even you, as do the majority of your religion,react to critisicm with scorn and anger.

  36. F says:

    It is interesting to see comments from John G and Tom.

    Both seem to want to blame religion and not people responsible for their actions. We can talk about many atrocities all over the planet
    and base it on religion. But that would not be fair as all religions
    teach good values and to have high moral and ethics. When one,
    or many, don’t follow higher morals and ethics, then they end up
    doing negative things. Sadly, innocent people get killed and the
    blame game starts.

    Virginia Tech killings happened – students got killed. Killer was nuts. No blaming his religion – no blaming his country of origin. Information
    was clear – ‘person’ was mad.

    Turkey killings – yes it was apalling and hope the killers are brought
    to justice. What gets published in the West? Muslims did it. Not
    Turks did it or X,Y and Z did it. So..with the Muslims – the blame game starts and reaches all areas of the Muslim world. As if, 1.3 billion Muslims went
    and committed it the horrible act. Here, we say the killers were mad. They should not have done so and be brought to Justice. But, does that get published in the West. No…no news..because..it won’t sell. They need to create an enemy. Soviets had their chance in the 70s and 80s. and they don’t exist anymore. We need a new one. Muslims for the next 20 years. Then, Who knows. Tomorrow, it might be the Chinese. To the Chinese, I say better start working on developing your relationship, in all areas, worldwide.

    Iraq – it is a power struggle – an all or nothing campaign. Everyone
    is in pain here and they want it to end. More so, they want the US
    to stop interfering in affairs over here. The Western and Middle
    East relations have been good economically. Politically, they have
    not been just.

    Killings taking place in Thailand – I’m not completely familiar with
    the story there. However, I can say this. Anyone who kills an
    innocent should be brought to justice. This is why my religion
    says and I stand behind it.

    Cartoons in Belgium – yes, there were many protests all over the Muslim world. A handful went rioting. Does that not happen in the West? One G8 meeting in Italy, the protestors rioted and the security shot and killed somebody and I think they drove over him. Many riots have taken place all over the world. Would one blame the people’s religion. While many can handle their emotions, some cannot. You have it in the West, in the East, and in the Middle East.

    If both Tom and John G would actually contact Muslim Education Group/s in their society, they would get true meanings and find it compatible to Christianty and Judaism.

  37. Tom says:

    Oh mr mahmoud I’m-getting-sued-for-my-free-speech. Do you think it’s acceptable to shut me up with technical blocks ? I realise sooner or later you’ll succeed, so consider the following simple idea :

    Whatever you believe from Christianity : believe the golden rule. Whatever you do to others, will be done to you, if necessary by the Lord himself. Bin Laden will die in senseless slaughter, without understanding why he’s getting shot, without the simple mercy of his killer understanding why he’s shooting him. Maybe it ‘s true what they say, that a dumb little bacteria first crippled and killed him, while he was cowering in a little cave in afghanistan, but even if he still is alive, he will not escape his fate.

    And if you wish to have ANY hope for free speech in Bahrain. Start practicing what you preach, or just lay down and die. One day you will understand that those are the only options.

  38. A learner of Arabic says:

    John G,

    “Criticism” is one thing. “You-Muslims-are-just-a-bunch-of-maniacs-and-a-menace-to-the-world” is not criticism. It is just the ramblings of a desperado who has decided in advance that Muslims are permanently incurable and that the present situation is somehow God-given and inalterable. This sort of masochistic despair will never stop terrorism, it will never save anybody Western (or anybody Muslim for that matter) from being blown up by Muslim terrorists, or anybody Muslim from being more or less accidentally shot down by ill-informed and frightened American invasion forces. If you have constructive ideas (“nuke ’em bastards” is not a constructive idea) about how to bring democracy, prosperity, and peace to Muslims, I bet everybody will listen. If you guys want to indulge in masochistic fantasies about what a menace Muslims are, feel free, but I reckon Mahmood agrees with me that a) you could do it somewhere else and b) we have already heard those fantasies about 1,234,567 times, and they were terribly boring from the first time on.

    As regards the video clip, it does bring home something important: lots of those stupid security forces around vulnerable installations are still unable to conceive of a potential terrorist who does not wear the costume of the stereotype Arab. Really reassuring, if you live next door to a nuclear power plant. There might be circumstances where ethnic profiling is advisable, but a security guard whose idea of “potentially risky or threatening behaviour” is identical to “looking like an operette Arab” is himself a security risk.

  39. Ibn says:

    John G,

    My personalthought is that ,unfortunately the Muslim world is as great a threat to the West as the Nazis were

    You are right of course. In fact when Arab kids are asked “What do you want to be when you grow up?”, they usually respond with “A concentration camp gaurd”.

    When in our mothers’ wombs, we Arab embryos try to set the Israeli flag alight, but starting a fire while surrounded with amniotic fluid really puts a dampener on things. Instead, we vent our anger by violently kicking our wombs, thereby causing our mothers massive pain. (And all this time you thought it was a natural reaction to pregnancy. Ha! Simpleton!)

    In fact my mom tells me my first words were “mam! mam!”, but listening to your insight it was probably more along the lines of “Death to America! Death to Israel! Allahu Akbar!” – In a baby’s voice of course. (The drooling saliva therein is due to a deep seated seething hate of the West, capitalism, and freedom, and not just due to blabbering baby talk).

    So yes, its obviously clear that we are born and bred to be hatefilled lunatics. So here’s a piece of advice: Although Mahmood is the final arbiter this being his blog, my suggestion is that you make yourself scarce, before some of us hate-filled-beheading-Moooslim-Arab-Nazis pull a kristalnaught on you eh?

    -Ibn

  40. Tom says:

    @Ibn

    Yes you are :

    Nearly two fifths (37 per cent) believe that the Jewish community in Britain is a legitimate target “as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East”. Moreover, only 52 per cent think that the state of Israel has the right to exist, with 30 per cent disagreeing, a big minority. One in six of all Muslims questioned thinks suicide bombings can sometimes be justified in Israel, though many fewer (7 per cent) say the same about Britain. This is broadly comparable to the number justifying suicide attacks in ICM and YouGov polls of British Muslims after the July 7 attacks.

    Is this what you call tolerance ?

  41. Tom says:

    @Ibn

    I’m 37% sure it is okay to “target” any muslim in my country for the ongoing struggle for justice in the middle east.

  42. mahmood says:

    John G:

    but I even you, as do the majority of your religion,react to critisicm with scorn and anger.

    I admit that in this particular issue that yes I have lashed out. Simply because I have been fielding this kind of blind questioning for the last 4 years and it does get tedious after a while.

    Therefore, I shall invest my time to write a “position paper” which I can direct your sort of questions to, maybe that will save you looking through the 4 year archive to ascertain my position. Until then, feel free to liberally use the search functionality.

    Let me state for the record; however, that I do believe that Islam is a violent religion, just like any other religion of its era and its predecessor. The violence that is inherently in it is not generally applied today because the societies it lives in on the whole have adapted their cultures to simply ignore that part of the religion and choose to do the plentiful good in it. We don’t dwell on it because we live it, and consciously or sub-consciously choose to ignore those unsavoury parts.

    Why do we choose to ignore them? Because they practically have no place in today’s modern world.

    Why aren’t we (I think, and I am speaking from a personal perspective here) vocal about it? Because in some interpretations – which you subscribe to as well – it is deemed that should we negate one paragraph or concept, then we would be regarded by those who choose to interpret our religion on traditional and ancient lines as kuffar and as such, our lives are forfeit.

    Unfortunately, it is those people who have the current political platform, minority as they are when you consider that the vast majority of the over 1.4 billion souls who call themselves Muslims do not toe those Salafi lines. And just to be clear here, I choose the term Salafi in its basic interpretation as those people who choose to return to the times of the Prophet and live by those standards rather than change and adapt with the times; and those includes not only the Wahabis, but also some followers of the Shi’a faith as I am sure others from other interpretations of Islam.

    MY personal interpretation of course is a logical one, at least that is what I believe until I am corrected if need be: invalidating a clause (or several for that matter) of a contract does not negate the whole contract and that action most certainly does not negate the spirit of the contract.

    Islam, like other organised religions has a plethora of good standards and ideals which enriches any society which adopts it; unfortunately people dwell on the things that they should ignore or at least attempt to bring to the modern era.

    People are trying to do that, but because of the political situations now they are unheard amongst the racket of coins being poured into and out of this area of the world. Interest in that metal and liquid after all supersedes the needs for reform. One that we will pay a heavy coin at some point in the future for that choice.

  43. mahmood says:

    Tom:

    Oh mr mahmoud I’m-getting-sued-for-my-free-speech. Do you think it’s acceptable to shut me up with technical blocks ?

    Oh don’t flatter yourself. You’re not worth the effort.

  44. John G says:

    Mahmood, I agree agree entirely with what you have just written. I erred when I compared the Islamic threat to Nazism.What I should have said was “radical/militant Islam, or Islamofacists as seems to be the new phrase.Both the Nazi and the Islamic militants use/used the position of victimhood and grievance against the Jews/West as a means of uniting the poor and dispossed.Using their support to rise to positions of power and once there pursue their own agendas, usually at the expense of their own people.Its not suprising how the Mullahs who persuade their acolytes to blow themselves up to attain heaven are never themselves at the front of the queue for suicide vests.Like most of their ilk they lead from the back. It is wrong to condemn all Muslims as the same, there are an awfulllot of them and thankfully the nutters are a minority, unfortunately with a power and influence that their numbers do not justify. You have to live with it every day, even in your peaceful country. Just thank your God that you do not live in one of the more radical countries,you would not have the enviable lifestyle you have now. Good luck with your court case, you have been brave to stand up and be counted,if in Saudi you would probably be in the cells by now. I personally am an agnostic, I believe that all religions have cursed mankind into a permanent cycle of struggle.

  45. John G says:

    Borat.

    I think you need to go sit down in a dark room for a while and calm down.I feel your anger, all those capital letters and shouty rude words. I was unable to grasp the thread of your diatribe, what did you mean by “germans kicking peoples bottoms” I forgive you for your spelling errors, your keyboard must have been melting. :blink:

  46. John G says:

    F

    My friend, the killings in Turkey of Christian booksellers were obviously religion motivated. The maniac at the American school not.The killings/shootings/beheadings of women,children,teachers in Thailand and the Phillpines are. I cannot think of any other religious group which is causing so much mayhem around the the world. That is a simple fact, the causes and justifications are not always so easy to explain. We had the Northern Ireland problem between Protestants and Catholics that goes back generations. There is a truce in place now but look how long that took to happen.And Ireland is a quite small country with no external world influence.

  47. Tom says:

    @Mahmood

    The verse clearly states that that is the only clause in the contract, and the hadith confirm this (that offensive jihad is mandatory). Mohamed had all meccan muslims who did not participate in his attack on the bani something killed. One by one, from a black list.

    You’re on his list to kill. So is every other decent human being.

    You have a nice position. But it’s an atheists position you’re pushing. That’s the essence of your fight with Bahrain. You follow yourself, your conscience, not allah, that is what Jesus died for, at least if you believe the bible. But great to hear it. Now just admit it in court that you’re not a muslim any more.

    I also noticed you no longer push the “islam is peaceful” angle, of a few months ago. Now you’re pushing “islam is only as bad as others” angle. You’re nearly there. Maybe you should read up on some other religions, because you’ll find that, while islam is not unique in calling for mass-murder and repression, it a lot more lonely than you currently think.

    Let’s see if I’m still blocked. I’ll put “no” in this message, see if it gets through. If you read this, it means you’ve actually unblocked me. Thanks !

  48. Tom says:

    @Mahmood

    The verse clearly states that that is the only clause in the contract, and the hadith confirm this (that offensive jihad is mandatory). Mohamed had all meccan muslims who did not participate in his attack on the bani something killed. One by one, from a black list.

    You’re on his list to kill. So is every other decent human being.

    You have a nice position. But it’s an atheists position you’re pushing. That’s the essence of your fight with Bahrain. You follow yourself, your conscience, not allah, that is what Jesus died for, at least if you believe the bible. But great to hear it. Now just admit it in court that you’re not a muslim any more.

    I also noticed you no longer push the “islam is peaceful” angle, of a few months ago. Now you’re pushing “islam is only as bad as others” angle. You’re nearly there. Maybe you should read up on some other religions, because you’ll find that, while islam is not unique in calling for mass-murder and repression, it a lot more lonely than you currently think.

    And you’re still trying to block me ! Shame on you !

  49. Tom says:

    @Mahmood

    The verse clearly states that that is the only clause in the contract, and the hadith confirm this (that offensive jihad is mandatory). Mohamed had all meccan muslims who did not participate in his attack on the bani something killed. One by one, from a black list.

    You’re on his list to kill. So is every other decent human being.

    You have a nice position. But it’s an atheists position you’re pushing. That’s the essence of your fight with Bahrain. You follow yourself, your conscience, not allah, that is what Jesus died for, at least if you believe the bible. But great to hear it. Now just admit it in court that you’re not a muslim any more.

    I also noticed you no longer push the “islam is peaceful” angle, of a few months ago. Now you’re pushing “islam is only as bad as others” angle. You’re nearly there. Maybe you should read up on some other religions, because you’ll find that, while islam is not unique in calling for mass-murder and repression, it a lot more lonely than you currently think.

    Ow you’re moderating. You’re just one faboulous supporter of free speech you are mahmood. Don’t you find this moderating a bit … idiotic, given your current situation ?

  50. Esra'a says:

    Thread round-up for those who are lost:

    Mahmood: Distasteful video. What do you guys think?
    Bernie: Sucks.
    Esra’a: Satire.
    Tom: islam is violent ppl kill also the crusads btw the koran sayz it
    Borat: lol tom r u a jew?
    Mahmood: Ignore the trolls.
    Kevin: That American dresses ugly he is making us look bad.
    Tom: the koran sayz “i kill u all” pg.6 paragraph 2
    Tom: r u tolerant, tell me r u relly tolerant cuz koran says i kill u all, r u free, freedom and islam is like chalk and cheese they dunt mix, also, koran sayz “i hate you” pg.32 paragraph 3, is this tolerance to you, plz tell me, is this tolerant to u i am asking cuz islam is bad
    Pamela: Tom, Mahmood is probably sleeping.
    Can we talk: God, I miss British TV.
    RedBelt: Leave Tom to me I can handle it.
    Tom: koran sayz clearly, “kill ur foes and eat ur shoes” pg.11 paragraph 4 (with thanks: wikipedia)
    Complexated: Australia has a chequered past.
    John G Muslims are gonna slit your faces they’re like Nazis except a bigger threat to the Western world.
    F Both John and Tom are blaming religion and not the people responsible for any wrongdoing.
    Tom: the koran sayz it guys cant u read
    Borat: TOM U ARE STUPID AND IGNORANT
    John G: go sit in a dark room, borat

  51. Borat says:

    John G
    LOL..I like your comment about melting keyboard..trust me it was red like a cola by the time i finished typing my comment…
    By me saying that “Germans kikin the bottoms” i meant that it wasnt the Muslims who were killing in world war …it was people amongst the Euorpean Nation who wanted to eliminate everyone…. as TOM was saying muslims are like Nazis and are threat to the Western nations he should not forget that Nazis were from Europe and Europe is in West..so in short i am sorry for him that he was born on Planet Earth and not some other peaceful planet. Even if he was born their he would have started the blame game their too..cuz he thinks that Nazis were muslims..lol

  52. Borat says:

    correction COAL not COLA..lol

  53. can we talk says:

    Thread round-up

    this is so cool, it should be done on all the threads!!!

  54. Esra'a says:

    Only on long threads like these where Borat, Tom, and John G are on the same page. Crazy! I can’t follow a damned thing.

    Maybe in long posts, especially those interrupted by trolls and random ramblings, Mahmood will allow us to start this tradition in order to bring back the focus.

  55. Ozzy says:

    WOW!!!
    Its just like a ddebate in U.N…..But afcourse like U.N and Security Council they never come to any conclusion

  56. mahmood says:

    Esra’a you’re the WOman!

    That was brilliant!

    As to doing it for other long threads, check out the “most commented” on the sidebar and knock yourself out! :w00t:

    I actually did think of doing this for every post, provide a summary of comments, a conclusion if you like, but then I got horrified by the amount of work that needs to be exerted, and I can forget about ever making any money in my (real) day job!

  57. Mike says:

    Typical Aussie humor! Hilarious!

  58. Ali says:

    This is a response to those posters further up who keep spewing their right-wing influenced, racist and xenophobic remarks.

    Here’s something you probably didn’t know or expect (or did, but chose not to bother):

    A Neglected Report from Europol
    The Islamic Threat to Europe: By the Numbers

    By KRISTOFFER LARSSON

    Some things interest the media, others don’t. Since the fall of the USSR, the United States has sought another menace to designate as the ultimate evil, a world threat the Americans desperately need to take on. The 9/11 attacks gave them that enemy. And when the White House speaks, the media listens obediently.

    Over the last number of years the “Islamic threat” has become one of the favourite issues for media coverage. It’s all over the news–Muslims leaders pronouncing threats against the countries participating in occupying Muslim land.

    While America is the Western country most succumbed to the fear of Islamism, things aren’t much better in Europe. Its media is highly Americanised and thus eager to reiterate U.S. governmental positions towards the non-Western world. Islamic terrorism is subsequently a theme close to the hearts of European journalists as well.

    Following this, you might think the journalists would be beside themselves with joy when the European Police Office (Europol) releases its first report on terrorism in the EU. I can assure you they weren’t. In fact, to my best knowledge, not a single Swedish paper or news-channel has paid any attention to it whatsoever. I haven’t seen it receiving much attention in other EU countries either (kudos to the EUobserver for having the decency to report on it). The report is namely a grave disappointment for the anti-Islamic campaigners.

    There were 498 incidents in eleven EU countries last year labelled as “terrorist attacks.” The Basque separatist group ETA did best (136 terrorist attacks) and was responsible for the only deadly attack, killing two in Madrid. The remaining 497 fortunately cost no human lives.

    How about the Islamic terrorists then? Considering the perpetual warnings in our daily papers, the findings in the Europol report is, to say the least, surprising. The truth is that Islamists only carried out one out of the 498 terrorist attacks in the European Union in 2006. Don’t believe me? The entire report is available on Europol’s website. Had Islamic fundamentalists been behind a higher number of attacks-say 136-it would have been front page news at every big daily. One attack is simply too few–it won’t do if the image of an “Islamic threat” is to live on.

    The Europol report devotes several pages to Islamist terrorism, despite the low number. Except for the one attack in Germany this group was responsible for (which, by the way, failed and resulted in no victims), also Denmark and the United Kingdom reported that Islamists plotted to carry out one attack in each country respectively (incidentally, all three countries are accessory to the illegal occupation of Iraq). However, since these plans in both cases were exposed before they were set to work, they were not included among the 498. Either way, even after taking these plots into account, the report proves the genuine magnitude of Islamic terrorism in Europe–it’s not exactly a huge threat.

    If we look at the people arrested on suspicion of terrorism offences, the figures are rather disproportionate; about half of them arrested were Muslim. In plain English: Muslims are a group causing very little terrorism in Europe, while at the same time much more likely to be arrested on suspicion of it. The constant media coverage of Muslims being arrested creates the false image of a serious threat in order to benefit the imperialist world-view Washington wants us to adopt. Meanwhile the Americans and their accomplices are carrying out genocide in Iraq. Clearly, something needs to be done about the media.

    Kristoffer Larsson lives in Sweden. He can be reached at: kristoffer.larsson@sobernet.nu

    You’re still here? Good…Now, I suggest you STFU and go back to doing whatever you usually do when you’re not trolling forums.

  59. Bernie says:

    There is of course the fact that Mr. Putin in Russia seems to be trying to take his country back to the good old days of communism which will give the good Christian right something different to think about again.

    That means the Islamist movement will no longer be the enemy of choice and we can all go back to the good old fashioned comfort zone of the cold war and fear the commies.

    I wonder if the communist terrorists should dress like Americans? :whistle:

  60. mahmood says:

    tom, you’re still flattering yourself I see. Well, whatever gets your rocks off. You were in the trash courtesy of Akismet. Go talk to them, oh wait, don’t, I enjoy you making a fool of yourself this way too much!

  61. pacifist says:

    Any dumbass who would kill because somebody said something bad about there religon is a fool, they are worse than animals the only ones I respect are Budhist monks they dont preach killing like you christian, jews, and muslims.

  62. Ms .45 says:

    Hi Guys,

    as Complexated pointed out, this is a satirical Australian show. More to the point, it is a satirical show that is widely liked by Muslims because they presumably see it as defending Muslims against the racism of the Australian government and media. (I am not commenting on whether the Australian government is racist or not – as a public servant I try hard to make sure I treat all clients the same, although it is definitely true that Australian politicians make hay out of Islamophobia.) For instance, Mohammad Omran’s Ahlus Sunna Wal Jamah links to both it and the Daily Show on their blog at http://aswjblog.blogspot.com/. You can get more at http://www.abc.net.au/tv/chaser/war/video/default.htm.

  63. tooners says:

    i agree w/ kevin… i think they could have dressed the american a little better. made us look bad! 😉 😉 cuz not all tourists dress so bad.

    but… i do agree in that it shows just how racist some are… but anyone can watch that borat movie and see the same thing, but in a different way. there are many examples of how racist americans can be towards different sects of ppl. in that film.

    it’s a shame that innocence has been lost though and that ppl can’t be themselves and take pics if they want w/out others feeling like they’re a terrorist for the way they look. but nowadays many don’t have to wear a thobe to prove that point. some see an arab looking person on a flight and immediately take a fear approach for no reason at all.

  64. Ibn says:

    Tooners,

    some see an arab looking person on a flight and immediately take a fear approach for no reason at all.

    And of course, the American right-wing conservatives will tell you that its “justified” fear.

    Esra’a,

    hahah! That was SO funny – that summary reminded me of two things –

    1) The Human condition.
    2) My old dormitory.

    That being said however, I really think that the plaque HERE ought to have been replaced with your summary! Afterall, it would have given our neighours a much better idea of what the ‘Humans’ from the obscure Terran Star System are really all about.

    :biggrin:

    -Ibn

  65. can we talk says:

    Esraa,
    it reminds me of Eid when the whole family gets together, and everybody’s talking and nobody’s listening.. so much fun

  66. John G says:

    A bit like any Parliament/Senate/House of Representatives.etc…lots of talking and the only result?? the rich get richer at the expense of the poor working bastards who have to create the wealth in the first place. In some respects Communism is perfect, but mankind is not,greed and lust for power will always overcome the desire to improve the lot of ones fellow man.

    All power corrupts in the end..very few leaders have remained pure….Ghandi was one,how many more can the rest of you scholars name? Its far,far easier to name the bad ones.

    And as for the girlie here …keep to the knitting..we all know women are better but if you lot were in charge things would be so boring and there would be no more BJ’s xxxxxx

  67. can we talk says:

    Huh???

  68. Ehsan says:

    People like Tom who don’t read the Quran properly have comments like these Quran is a book with very deep meanings and a normal a anti Muslim and anti-islamic person like Tom wont go deep in the quran to find meanings of things described in the Quran they Quran’s Orders are in time of war or when a Caliph or Prophet orders them to go to war quran doesn’t order Muslims to go to war whenever they want but it has allowed them to act in self defence only if they are attacked first

  69. billT says:

    John G – Me I’ve reached the point in my life where I can remain pure yet I have no power.

  70. sam says:

    A massage to Tom….. Mr.,know it all,
    and anyone with slow brain function.

    I have No idea What book you were reading but that is Not the Quran.. , maybe someone gave you a wrong translation or you are an idiot and a fool who only loves to hear himself talk.
    And don’t make me talk about were you get your Info. From – Arabian nights ? (Verse 9:111 ).. what a joke… wake up you know it’s only stories not real.

    If you are smart you will know that you can not translate every thing correctly from one language to a another- Let alone the explanation and how it is translated and in your case you love to blame religion( Only Muslim in ur case) and not people.!!!!!
    please spare us your judgment… when you likely have an issue with something.

    sam
    😆

  71. P.T. says:

    I have peformed this type of satire at the Edinburgh Fringe festival.
    Dressed in national costume I walked down a very crowded Royal Mile, and didn’t have to check my step once. People simply got out of my way or attempted a sheepish grin. My clothes incited negative transference on the part of those observing me.
    THis is understandable, and very painful for all Muslims. The violence perpetrated by this minority, with political ambition using a religious platform has tarred us all with the same brush.
    When I got home after my walk down The Royal Mile, I had to sit and think of whether I should proceed with my show, given that in the depths of peoples prejudice, I was dangerous.
    These Aussie guys are doing the right thing. Pointing out inequuity wherever they observe it.
    However, If the distribution of wealth in the Arab world was better than it is, Islam would be evolving with much less fire and brimstone than is currently perceived. Arabs who own their own home, can clothe and feed their kids, can get away once a year for a holiday and can drive a car under 5 years old, simply have less reason to be radical.
    Poverty drives radicalism.
    The fellow TOM who has been spitting at us, is doing exactly what the majority of Muslims are not.
    Because the majority of us ignore the pockets of intollerance in the Quran does not mean we are atheists or agnostics. It means we are practical.
    I refer to the Quran for its beautiful spiritual messages. I am no less a Muslim for not killing.
    Tom, all religion evolves in time. In Islam it’s 1427 and there is much evolution to come yet, if the religion is to survive.
    I understand how it makes you feel better to blare your protests out to an Arab blogger, but that says more about you, I’m afraid, than it does your opinions.
    TO find some peace in your life forgive your Father, then forgive your mother.
    Forgiveness is the key.
    You should try it.

    Live Long and prosper

  72. Publia says:

    The world is quick to blame America, but that’s an Australian show, not an American show. While the show hosts discuss an “American tourist,” the “tourist” is not dressed like Americans dress–at least not in anywhere in America where I have ever been. We don’t have that show in America. While I have seen many women in burkas here in the United States, I have never, ever, seen a man in a robe and head scarf here, and I have seen many men from the middle East. Of course, a robe and a head scarf would draw attention in any area where they are not how people dress. Terrorists in America DO dress as Americans, by the way. I imagine that when you travel to America and to Europe you generally don’t wear the clothes that your are wearing on your masthead. So why the anger?

  73. Ehsan says:

    @Publia i think you should checkout this post its about Americans n offense or anything i didn’t make the video

    American Knowledge

  74. Craig says:

    Can we Talk,

    and i believe the poll (not 100% sure, but if my memory serves me correctly) said that the US was the biggest threat, not Americans, as in the government not the people.

    Kinda like saying Islam is the threat, not Muslims. Right?

    It’s bullshit. If people are going to committed bigots they should at least be honest.

  75. can we talk says:

    and i believe the poll (not 100% sure, but if my memory serves me correctly) said that the US was the biggest threat, not Americans, as in the government not the people

    Kinda like saying Islam is the threat, not Muslims. Right?

    It’s bullshit. If people are going to committed bigots they should at least be honest.

    i dont understand. what are you saying? that there is no difference between the people and the government? that the american people are responsible for their president’s behaviour (beyond voting him into office and then voting him in again) and that they should be accountable for it? well, i am sorry but i do not hold every american responsible for the crimes against humanity that have been perpetuated by their president. so i see a very clear distinction between the two.

  76. Ibn says:

    Kinda like saying Islam is the threat, not Muslims. Right?

    Yes Craig. The American government taxes individuals, sends dudes with at least 2 guns knocking on your door if you dont pay up, organizes and deploys the armed forces, and makes foreign policy decisions. It is also physically located in Washington DC. Islam, being an abstraction, obviously, also does all those things.

    The similarities are glaring.

    -Ibn

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