at the invitation of the mullahs, because “he insulted the Supreme Guide“. One would think that he was insulting an uber TV Channel listing guide, but it turns out it’s a turbanned guy in Iran, whose main duty is to offer “guidance” as to how Iran should be governed.
Well, excuse me for a second here because me no comprende: how exactly is imprisoning a kid who voiced his opinions going to help Iran or the Supreme Guide other than further destroying its international reputation?
He got 2 years for his troubles.
In “democratic” Iran.
And that’s not all, he’s facing the death penalty if convicted of “insulting the prophets,” another charge he is yet to stand. Excellent, that should be a very good show in international affairs.
THE FASTER US MUSLIM COUNTRIES COMPLETELY SEPARATE STATE FROM RELIGION, THE FASTER WE CAN MOVE FORWARD IN THE WORLD, TECHNOLOGIES, ARTS, SCIENCES AND HUMAN DECENCY.
Did I shout that loud enough? Maybe so, but I doubt that anyone is listening. Because if they ARE, then maybe I could be the next to join Mujtaba! Hope not, but there are no guarantees.
Do the right thing. Please.
Comments
Re(2): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]In the US, churches do rent out their buildings so people have a place to vote on election day. This does not mean those churches are promoting their politics. You have to get the details of the context. [/quote]
The governor used a religious establishment as a background for signing a piece of legislation into law. This is different than using religious establishments as a place for a free and impartial vote. The signing of legislation has a lot of symbolic value and in the past has been used as a way to recognise those people or groups that have contributed to the legislation. Knowing this, signing a law into effect that dealt with abortion rights, at a church, was beyond common sense.
Re(3): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
And just how Malik is this different from a governor signing a bill into law at a Pre School, the YMCA, the YWCA, a Hospital an AIDES clinic a local highschool ect ect ect. The fact that it was done at a CHRISTIAN CHURCH is was bugs you Malik. No more no less. It was very appropriate for a law dealing with abortion to be signed into law at a church. You said it your self.. Symbolic value. I fail to see, other than your disdain for Christians, why this is a problem.
I suggest if you don’t like it so much. Pack your bags, move to Texas and lobby for a law there that simply states all Legislation being signed into law must be done at the State House or Governors office.
Re(4): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]And just how Malik is this different from a governor signing a bill into law at a Pre School, the YMCA, the YWCA, a Hospital an AIDES clinic a local highschool ect ect ect. The fact that it was done at a CHRISTIAN CHURCH is was bugs you Malik. No more no less. It was very appropriate for a law dealing with abortion to be signed into law at a church. You said it your self.. Symbolic value. I fail to see, other than your disdain for Christians, why this is a problem.
I suggest if you don’t like it so much. Pack your bags, move to Texas and lobby for a law there that simply states all Legislation being signed into law must be done at the State House or Governors office. [/quote]
What bugs me is that it was done at any church, any place of worship. I do not believe religious institutions of any sorts are a proper venue for signing a bill into law, especially one that is so charged, often by religious extremists, as is the abortion issue. If you agree there is symbolic value in signing a abortion bill into law at a church, what is then the symbolism? That religion should or does directly affect law makers and those laws? It has nothing to do with any “disdain for Christians.” My brother is a very active evangelical Christian. As to abortion, I am completely against it based on my own faith. I just think religion needs to be kept out of the political system, that includes Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, you name it. Couple religion with a political party and you are going to have nothing but problems.
I would stand against any similar sort of event at a mosque or any other religious venue. Religion and politics, that is what makes America so great, they are completely seperated. In a diverse and tolerant place like the USA we do not need to dampen that ideal, we need to strengthen it.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]THE FASTER US MUSLIM COUNTRIES COMPLETELY SEPARATE STATE FROM RELIGION, THE FASTER WE CAN MOVE FORWARD IN THE WORLD, TECHNOLOGIES, ARTS, SCIENCES AND HUMAN DECENCY. [/quote]
Islamic countries need a ‘First Amendment’ Freedom of Religion – where the state is specifically prohibited from supporting one religion over another.
The question in my mind is: Can Islam, a religion based on politics and legalism, ever dissassociate itself from the state? What kind of religiously permissable violent backlash would occur if such a ‘First Amendment’ law was put into place in say.. Saudi, or even Bahrain? Only Iran, in my opinion, is the closest to implementation of that particular clause – but it requires the Mullahs to be overthrown.. as soon as possible.
Re: Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Islamic countries need a ‘First Amendment’ Freedom of Religion – where the state is specifically prohibited from supporting one religion over another.
The question in my mind is: Can Islam, a religion based on politics and legalism, ever dissassociate itself from the state? What kind of religiously permissable violent backlash would occur if such a ‘First Amendment’ law was put into place in say.. Saudi, or even Bahrain? Only Iran, in my opinion, is the closest to implementation of that particular clause – but it requires the Mullahs to be overthrown.. as soon as possible. [/quote]
I think Islam can dissassociate itself from the state in the same manner that the Church of England has dissassociated itself from the government in the UK. A complete disassociation is not needed to form a state in which the religion plays little or no role and that guarantees freedom of speech. Europe is full of states with state sponsored religion, yet in reality the religion plays little or no role in day to day life. Think about it, the Queen of England is “The Defender of the Faith,” but what exactly, in real terms, does this mean? Nothing. I think there are radical elements that would fight such a move, but consider most Muslims look at The Qur’an as a book that guarantees religious freedom, I dont think it would be an issue. Historically, Muslims lands have been rather tolerant of other faiths as well. Again, it would require the moderate majority of Muslims to stand up to the vocal and violence minority and put them down, with whatever means are needed.
I think with Iran it would have less of an impact than many other places in the Islamic world as Iran is almost solidy, 100% Muslim. Such a thing would have much more impact in countries like Jordan, Palestine, Egypt, Indonesia and other places with a sizeable non Muslim population.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Along this same line……
[b]Defenders or Enemies of Islam?[/b]
Dr. Ali Alyami & Micha van Waesberghe, the Center for Democracy & Human Rights in Saudi Arabia
The Saudi Minister of Islamic Affairs, Sheikh Saleh Al-Asheikh, this week called on all Muslims to “use all legitimate means to defend the holy book”, adding, “They make overt and covert attacks against the Qur’an. Their aim is to change the holy book and prevent people from following it. All Muslims must come forward to defend the Qur’an.” The Mufti’s statements may be used by violent extremists to justify attacks on Christians, Jews and others.
The question is who the real enemies of Islam are: The small number of insensitive and immature interrogators who inappropriately handled the Qur’an, or those Muslims who have used Islam to promote hate, sustain poverty, and justify taking the lives of innocents?…
[url]http://www.cdhr.info/pressroom.asp?id=52[/url]
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]THE FASTER US MUSLIM COUNTRIES COMPLETELY SEPARATE STATE FROM RELIGION, THE FASTER WE CAN MOVE FORWARD IN THE WORLD, TECHNOLOGIES, ARTS, SCIENCES AND HUMAN DECENCY.[/quote]
I think Islam will always be part of the state, but I would hope it is in a modern sense, like the Church of England is in the UK. It is the “state” religion, but that doesnt really mean much. I think all religious leaders should have no place in politics. It is a personal matter. It would seem that we here in the USA are going the opposite diretion. The governor of Texas recently signed a law into effect at a Christian establishment.
Lets leave religion in the religious world, and let everyone get on with it. If you are truly religious, as a Muslim, then you know that your “niyah” or intention is everything. If one is forced to do, or to abstain, from something then they have gained nothing by either act as their intention was not genuine. Leave the choice to the person themselves. I think the leaders in places like Iran do far more to hurt the religion than they ever have done to help it.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Malik
What is wrong with signing a law at a “christian establishment”. You wouldn’t be bitching if it was done a Mosque would you. No you wouldn’t it. Keep you disdain for Christains in check please.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]how exactly is imprisoning a kid who voiced his opinions going to help Iran or the Supreme Guide other than further destroying its international reputation?
[/quote]
I don’t think many of these turbaned asshats or turban loving wannabes care about international reputations. They are blinded by power and frustrated by an inability to maintain this power in this day and age. Words it seems are more powerful than bullets at times.
Re: Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Malik
What is wrong with signing a law at a “christian establishment”. You wouldn’t be bitching if it was done a Mosque would you. No you wouldn’t it. Keep you disdain for Christains in check please. [/quote]
Siging a law, any law, at ANY religious establishment is wrong. I would not support such an act done at a mosque, church or synagogue. Religion and politics must NOT be tied together like this. The fact that the law that was signed at the religious establishment dealt with abortion makes the situation worse. I have no disdain for Christians, I have disdain for anyone who uses religion to promote their politics, Muslim, Christian or Jewish.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
I have given up hope for any change to the better in our part of the world…
Re(1): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]MALIK:Siging a law, any law, at ANY religious establishment is wrong. I would not support such an act done at a mosque, church or synagogue[/quote]
In the US, churches do rent out their buildings so people have a place to vote on election day. This does not mean those churches are promoting their politics. You have to get the details of the context.
Re(7): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Aliandra ..
and what kind of post op care can one get with back street abortions?
the thing is – the state does have a role to play .. and the answer cannot be to ignore the problem and pretend it doesnt exist. because, people will find their own solutions. and these hybrid solutions may actually create more problems.
JJ
Re(6): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]”As to abortion, I am completely against it based on my own faith”
So .. how to propose to deal with back street abortions and the like? Whether you want to admit it or not,
abortions do happen, for a variet of reasons. If you dont acknowledge the problem, you create a whole
host of other problems because people will find their own solutions .. not all of them medically or socially
sound .. [/quote]
I agree. Here in the USA, at least, the VAST majority of abortions done every year are done as a control method, not for medical reasons. So the question is then, how do you get people to alter their behavior so that this doesnt happen? First I would think there should be more education on many fronts. I think there needs to be education to prevent these unwanted pregnancies from happening in the first place. Second, there needs to be education done to make sure people know exactly what is involved in an abortion. I know several women who have had abortions, and to a person they regret it.
I do not think anyone arugues that abortion is a good thing, I think where people differ is access to abortions, if needed, and steps that can be taken to reduce the amount of abortions. This is an issue that cuts across religious, national and ethnic lines. I have heard Muslims argue that life doesnt actually exist in the foetus until it is two or three months old, I have hear other Muslims say the moment of conception is the moment of life. I tend to agree with the later. These are the same arguements heard here in the USA amoungst Christians and non Christians alike. My wife is pregnant now, and should be giving birth in the next couple of weeks, Insha’Allah. When we saw the pictures of the baby at only 3 months old it was clear there was life there, the beginings of a new human. Arms, legs, fingers, head, eyes. It was a living being. Just because it could not survive without its mother doesnt mean it isnt alive. There are many cases in society where a human could not survive without someone, that does not invalidate their lives or mean that they do not have life at all.
For me I think that having an abortion for birth control reasons is extremely wrong. I think often you are compounding one wrong with another. To help tackle this issue many issues will need to be addressed. Not just abortion itself. One question I have never seen answered is what people would do with all of the children that are born unwanted if abortion were outlawed or extremely repressed. I think many of these children, once born, would cease to be “unwanted” in the first place. It is easy to not want something that is an abstract, much harder to not want something that is tangible, in front of your face. Society would need to step in and change some of its ideas about babies born out of wedlock and about adoption and social services that would be needed by these children. We also need to look at the help we give needy families. I think often babies are aborted because it is felt that the family can not afford another baby. What can be done to help so that this isnt the case?
At the end of the day I do not think that babies, independent life created by God, should pay the price for the sins of the parents. No matter what the parents did wrong the baby should not suffer for it.
It is a very hard question, but one that should be tackled.
Re(5): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Then it should be very clear to you that there is no sizable shift in Iranians anywhere to convert to ancient pagan beliefs or to Christianity.[/quote]
Then explain this year’s massive Norwooz festivals. “Muslims” wer jumping over fires.
Also, Malik – it is deeply insulting to refer to Zoroastrians as ‘pagans’. Without them, Islam, Christianity, and perhaps Judaism itself -WOULD NOT EXIST-. Zarathustra himself was a true prophet, literally. His idea of the duality of good and evil and the concept of one God was unheard of, and it was a definite paradigm shift for the entire world.
Plus, the Zoroastrian ‘Good thoughts, Good words, Good deeds’ mantra is truly a better theological ideal than ‘kill the infidels/Salman Rushdie and imprison those who insult the great (TV) guide’.
Ethan
Re(7): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
how noble of you.
have you ever thought that maybe the thousands of women who have had abortions and have never regretted it would never ever share that thought with you because they would know that you have an extremely judgemental opinion on just about everything??
you wait until your daughter ends up pregnant at 15 because of a stupid mistake ..or because the condom broke, and ends up being too scared to tell her parents. what would you rather her do? have an abortion? or would you rather she ends up a single mother as a teenager screwing up her whole life because she didnt know any better?
and, before you give me the story that your daughter (assuming you have one) would NEVER do something as stupid as that, let me remind you that the thousands of women who have abortions were ALL someone’s daughters ..
think, malik, think …..
JJ
Re(8): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
JJ,
In the US, the majority of women who have abortions were not using birth control when they conceived. Birth control is readily available at any drugstore and pretty inexpensive, so people can’t claim they couldn’t get it or couldn’t afford it. We have a big problem in that too many people take no responsibility for their sexual behavior. A more cavalier attitude toward abortion isn’t going to solve that.
A 15 year old pregnant girl can also put up her baby for adoption. Abortion and single motherhood are not her only alternatives. We’ve got legions of couples desperate to adopt.
Aliandra
Re(8): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]how noble of you.
have you ever thought that maybe the thousands of women who have had abortions and have never regretted it would never ever share that thought with you because they would know that you have an extremely judgemental opinion on just about everything?? [/quote]
Sure I have an opinion about things I know about and things I find important. Most everyone does. I am sure there are thousands, even hundreds of thousands of women who have had abortions and do not regret it. This hardly makes it right.
[quote]you wait until your daughter ends up pregnant at 15 because of a stupid mistake ..or because the condom broke, and ends up being too scared to tell her parents. what would you rather her do? have an abortion? or would you rather she ends up a single mother as a teenager screwing up her whole life because she didnt know any better? [/quote]
I would not have her compound her mistake by taking the life of a baby. Whether she chose to keep it or give it up for adoption, I would support either. I would not support taking the life of an unborn baby because of a “stupid mistake.” My daughter is just about to turn 13, so it is an issue we have thought about.
[quote]and, before you give me the story that your daughter (assuming you have one) would NEVER do something as stupid as that, let me remind you that the thousands of women who have abortions were ALL someone’s daughters ..
think, malik, think ….. [/quote]
People do stupid things. I understand that, what I do not agree with is doing something else stupid to try and clear up an issue created by another stupid mistake.
Re(9): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]JJ,
In the US, the majority of women who have abortions were not using birth control when they conceived. Birth control is readily available at any drugstore and pretty inexpensive, so people can’t claim they couldn’t get it or couldn’t afford it. We have a big problem in that too many people take no responsibility for their sexual behavior. A more cavalier attitude toward abortion isn’t going to solve that.
A 15 year old pregnant girl can also put up her baby for adoption. Abortion and single motherhood are not her only alternatives. We’ve got legions of couples desperate to adopt.
Aliandra [/quote]
I agree with you 100%! Amazing……
Re(5): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Then it should be very clear to you that there is no sizable shift in Iranians anywhere to convert to ancient pagan beliefs or to Christianity. [/quote]
It’s far from clear to me. What [i]is[/i] clear to me is that you can persuade and/or force a people to live under theocracy for just so long but in the end all you end up doing is pushing them further away from the very things you want them to adhere to. People need a certain amount of freedom, whether you like it or not, and if you deny it to them they will, eventually, rebel.
Re(10): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
I’m shocked, Malik, just shocked! 🙂
Re(5): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]As to telling Arabs about Arab culture and societies, I hope you are aware that there are numerous Arab cultures and numerous Arab societies, [/quote]
And there you go AGAIN. You just cannot resist adopting this know-it-all position that assumes everyone else is ignorant. Not that it’s any of your business, but I know and regularly work with a variety of Arabs from a variety of Arab cultures/societies, including Palestine, the Lebanon, Saudi, Dubai, and Oman. One of my best and oldest friends is an (atheist) Iranian who works for al-Jazeera. It’s time you gave other people just a little respect and stopped preaching from on high – it’s actually YOU who sounds like a “tired old Orientalist”. You seem only to see the aspects of Arab and Muslim cultures that you [i]want[/i] to see.
Re(6): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Quote:
Then it should be very clear to you that there is no sizable shift in Iranians anywhere to convert to ancient pagan beliefs or to Christianity.
Then explain this year’s massive Norwooz festivals. “Muslims” wer jumping over fires. [/quote]
I wrote a rather lengthy response but it was lost in Mahmood fixing of his video problem. Anyway, Germans jump over fires every year in comemoration of ancient pagan worship rites there. The next day they go back to being Protestants, Catholics, what have you. Scandanavians, in large numbers, wear “Thor’s Hammer” but this doesnt mean they worship Odin, Thor or believe in life in Walhalla. It is a way of connecting with their ancient roots, not a rejection of their current life.
[quote]Also, Malik – it is deeply insulting to refer to Zoroastrians as ‘pagans’. Without them, Islam, Christianity, and perhaps Judaism itself -WOULD NOT EXIST-. Zarathustra himself was a true prophet, literally. His idea of the duality of good and evil and the concept of one God was unheard of, and it was a definite paradigm shift for the entire world. [/quote]
Ethan, they believe in multiple Gods. I had originally pulled a quote off a site of theirs talking about their “main” or “supreme” God and his creation of competeing spirits. Those are pagan beliefs Ethan, the belief in more than one God ect.
[quote]Plus, the Zoroastrian ‘Good thoughts, Good words, Good deeds’ mantra is truly a better theological ideal than ‘kill the infidels/Salman Rushdie and imprison those who insult the great (TV) guide’.
Ethan [/quote]
Well, it would seem that Zoroastrian beliefs arent very good for women. It seem they believe they are down right contaminated every month. It would seem that certain sex acts are banned, adultery is religiously proscribed, as is masturbation. Women on their period cannot touch seeds or it renders them sterile and they kill garden plants and being being near a woman on her period will “annul the power of magnetic aura of a pious man”. Knowing their religious texts will stop miscarriage? [i]”In the same way the germs spread in the surrounding atmosphere by the extraordinary evil magnetic condition of a menstruous woman’s mind”? [/i]Real enlightened beliefs Ethan. Besides, I have heard you rail against “reveiled religions” but Zoroastrian believe their religion was reveiled. But lets stop this talk. Mahmood shut down the forums for out of hand discussions like this and this thread is heading in that direction.
http://tenets.zoroastrianism.com/diniavaz33c.html
“The Drujih-i-Buji mentioned which in the Khordad Yasht results if proper precaution is not taken at the period of menstrual discharge of a woman. Hence all sins of sexual intercourse e.g. Jeh-marzih, or sin of adultery with a prostitute, Dashtan-mnarzih or sin of intercourse with a menstruous woman, Kun-marzih or sodomy, Avarun-marzashnih or improper sexual excesses, Shoithra-gunah or masturbation or onanism, Rospi and Ropsi-bargih or all kinds of illicit intercourse with other women, Guvah-paiti and Gavah-vanidi or all kinds of sodomy all these enumerated in the Pazend Patit or Expiatory prayer of Dasturan Dastur Adarbad Mahrespand fall under Drujih-i-Buji.
A right knowledge of Drujih-I-Buji and of the ill-effects therefore will save the boys of the age of puberty from the fangs of masturbation, will prevent the young ladies from impairing their private organs during the period of menses, and will stop infant mortality and miscarriage etc., by teaching restraint of sexual excesses to the married couple. Co-habiting after some time of the conception of a child is according to Vendidad XV-8 regarded as an act of Druj-I-Buji. Thus a genuine knowledge of all the rules of Ashoi taught in the Zoroastrian religion puts a stop to many social evils arising out of loose morality which can be controlled only by imparting original knowledge of Ashoi and Drujih.
The mandate for seclusion of mestruated women is based on the Zoroastrian precaution against Drujih-I-Buji. The word Dakhshtavaits in the Avesta literally means having some mark or indication, and hence the word came to mean menstruous. When a young girl comes to the age of puberty, this monthly discharge is natural as the seminal discharges in males. During this period the physical body of the woman has extraordinary sham heat, and the evil magnetism flowing from her at this time is sufficient to annul the power of magnetic aura of a pious man within a certain distance of her. The magnetic flow from a menstruous woman deadens the essential energy of seeds placed before her, and renders them sterile. This fact is expressly stated by Pliny thus, –
On the approach of a woman in this state of menstruation, seeds which are touched by her become sterile, grafts wither away, garden plants are withered up.
In the same way the germs spread in the surrounding atmosphere by the extraordinary evil magnetic condition of a menstruous woman s mind, by a dispersion of their thought-power, cause various diseases also. Such a woman cannot repeat the Avesta manthra and is not allowed even to hear anybody else reciting the manthra, for the magnetic current issuing from her body is sufficient to nullify the Staotic effect of Avesta vibrations.
She has to cleanse her hands and feet and face only with the bull s urine (Av. Gaomaeza), and during the period of menstruous seclusion she cannot touch water for external application. The magnetic current in the bull s urine is powerful in over-powering the microbes in the aura of a menstruous woman, and the Khshaeto-frado in the water multiplies these microbes if water is applied for wash to her physical body. She has to take her food in a lead or iron utensil, and all these simple rules are based on the subtle laws of magnetism.
The menstrual discharge is a necessary condition and is a natural one, for, the function of bearing children which the woman is entrusted with, necessitates this periodic flow. This is a spontaneous Asar-i-Tarikih arising naturally, as in the case of taking food and removing excreta from the body. But as Zoroastrians we have to transmute this Asar-i-Tarikih into Asar-i-Roshnih by observing certain rules of seclusion, prescribed in the Vendidad, of women in menses.
– By Phiroze Masani (Z.A. & M)
Re(6): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]
As to telling Arabs about Arab culture and societies, I hope you are aware that there are numerous Arab cultures and numerous Arab societies,
And there you go AGAIN. You just cannot resist adopting this know-it-all position that assumes everyone else is ignorant. Not that it’s any of your business, but I know and regularly work with a variety of Arabs from a variety of Arab cultures/societies, including Palestine, the Lebanon, Saudi, Dubai, and Oman. One of my best and oldest friends is an (atheist) Iranian who works for al-Jazeera. It’s time you gave other people just a little respect and stopped preaching from on high – it’s actually YOU who sounds like a “tired old Orientalist”. You seem only to see the aspects of Arab and Muslim cultures that you want to see. [/quote]
Not at all. I guess you have missed my recent posts asking for information about how things work in Bahrain. Why do I ask? Because I havent the first clue. I would never claim to have a working knowledge of a culture or a country based on the fact that I work with someone from a given area. I work with Sudanese, Egyptians, Lebanese, Palestinians(from all over the Arab world) you name it. This hardly means that I know anything about their respective cultures. Culture, foods, customs, language, it all varies from area to area in the Middle East and North Africa. Because you know a Syrian doesnt mean that you can then make a statement about the culture in Jordan. Knowing one Iranian who works for al Jazeera hardly makes one able to speak for religious and social trends in the Iranian community. My wife is good friends with the wife of the editor of asharq al awsat, doesnt mean I can speak about the inner workings of the Arab press.
As to seeing aspects of Arab and Muslim culture that I want to see, that is far from the case. I have been one of the loudest critics of certain aspects of Arab and Muslim culture.
Re(1): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]I think Islam can dissassociate itself from the state in the same manner that the Church of England has dissassociated itself from the government in the UK.[/quote]
The Church of England was not created or predicated on the belief that God himself is the ultimate legislator of Human laws. Jesus very favmous statement: Give unto God what is God’s and to Ceasar which is Caesar’s has been a very influential sentiment in the West. Seperation of Church and State would be impossible if it wasn’t for the fact that Christianity’s earliest leaders eschewed earthy power. Jesus was no Prince of Earth!
On the other hand, Mohammed was a Prince on Earth. The Koran is God’s LAW, which trumps the laws of man by definition. Even the Koran itself says that. If the religion declared itself -greater- than Man’s law, then there is no hope of true separation of Church and State.
[quote]I think with Iran it would have less of an impact than many other places in the Islamic world as Iran is almost solidy, 100% Muslim.[/quote]
Actually, it’s only about 20% Muslim and 80% Zoroastrians/Mithrans who have masqueraded as Muslims for 1400 years. But what do I know?
Re(2): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]
I think Islam can dissassociate itself from the state in the same manner that the Church of England has dissassociated itself from the government in the UK.
The Church of England was not created or predicated on the belief that God himself is the ultimate legislator of Human laws. Jesus very favmous statement: Give unto God what is God’s and to Ceasar which is Caesar’s has been a very influential sentiment in the West. Seperation of Church and State would be impossible if it wasn’t for the fact that Christianity’s earliest leaders eschewed earthy power. Jesus was no Prince of Earth!
On the other hand, Mohammed was a Prince on Earth. The Koran is God’s LAW, which trumps the laws of man by definition. Even the Koran itself says that. If the religion declared itself -greater- than Man’s law, then there is no hope of true separation of Church and State. [/quote]
In Europe there was no difference betwen state laws and laws based on Christianity for hundreds of years. This didnt stop them from developing democratic states. It wont stop Islam.
[quote]
I think with Iran it would have less of an impact than many other places in the Islamic world as Iran is almost solidy, 100% Muslim.
Actually, it’s only about 20% Muslim and 80% Zoroastrians/Mithrans who have masqueraded as Muslims for 1400 years. But what do I know? [/quote]
You are interesting. If 80% of Iran are Zorosatrians masquarading as Muslims, why didnt these people practice this belief when they were governed by a secular dictator? Seems to me if they were secret Zorosatrians, they would have worshiped their faith when they had an opportunity right? Besides, I am glad they dont! If I were Iranian I wouldnt want my piousness taken away by the “evil magnetism” that Zorosatrians believe surround women on their period. I would hate to have to ban my wife from entering my garden during her menses for fear that all of my rose bushes might die. Again, lets drop this subject as we are really straying away from where this thread started.
Re(7): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Actually I think if you work with people you do learn something about their culture, assuming that you actually talk to them and ask questions and listen to the answers. They also learn something about yours. That’s the beauty of getting to know people.
Does it make you an authority on their cultures? Of course not. But it does mean that your assumption that no one but you, Malik the Magnificent, knows a damn thing is overweening arrogance on your part.
Re(8): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Actually I think if you work with people you do learn something about their culture, assuming that you actually talk to them and ask questions and listen to the answers. They also learn something about yours. That’s the beauty of getting to know people. [/quote]
Sure, you can learn a small amount of their culture.
[quote]Does it make you an authority on their cultures? Of course not. But it does mean that your assumption that no one but you, Malik the Magnificent, knows a damn thing is overweening arrogance on your part. [/quote]
I have never made that statement nor do I think it is accurate. I think it is insecurity on your part, so please dont pass it on to me. The only Arabic culture I would say that I have a detailed knowledge of Saudi Arabia, and even that has to be qualified with mentioning that it is of the Hijazi region where my wife and her family are from. I do not know much about the Najd area, the east or the Shi’a of Saudi Arabia.
Re(9): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]I have never made that statement nor do I think it is accurate. I think it is insecurity on your part, so please dont pass it on to me. [/quote]
That was a generic “you”, followed by a statement directed at you personally. Not everything is about you; just some of it.
As for authority claims – sure, you don’t actually say “I am Malik the All-Knowing” but your consistently preacherly and condescending tone makes it unnecessary for you to do so.
Re(10): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]As for authority claims – sure, you don’t actually say “I am Malik the All-Knowing” but your consistently preacherly and condescending tone makes it unnecessary for you to do so. [/quote]
Again, that is your insecurity. I often preface my statements with “I believe” or “it is my experience”. I have made statements here that were incorrect and have quickly owned up to them. Sorry if you dont like the way I write, different styles I guess. I dont like the way you curse, but that is the way it is right?
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Skip the insanity upstairs!^
I may be a fool, but I think the world is starting to pay attention when people “vanish” because they dared to challenge their own government. We (pretty much everyone) have watched governments (pick any continent) destroy the people who they claim to work for. I hope that we (the people) can force them to stop the bullshit.
Stay out of jail,
Mike in the US
Re(1): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]I think with Iran it would have less of an impact than many other places in the Islamic world as Iran is almost solidy, 100% Muslim.[/quote]
Iran is changing very fast. I read an interesting article not long ago about how many young Iranians, and especially those from the wealthier families, are leaving Islam and converting to Christianity or back to the original Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism. The reasons they gave were interesting. Christianity appeals to them because it is regarded as much more liberal than Islam and Iranian youths crave more liberty. Zoroastrianism appeals for more nationalistic reasons: it is seen as authentically Iranian while Islam is increasingly understood as a foreign import. According to the article, these young people (in their twenties) habitually spoke of “the Muslims” as distinct from themselves – as in “the Muslims won’t allow us to …” and “the Muslims try to control what we think …” and so on. The article suggested that the Iranian theocracy is going in one ideological direction and a growing number of the people in quite another. What the long-term results will be is anyone’s guess, but such a gulf between a government and its people surely means that the status quo cannot be sustained indefinitely.
Re(5): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
“As to abortion, I am completely against it based on my own faith”
So .. how to propose to deal with back street abortions and the like? Whether you want to admit it or not,
abortions do happen, for a variet of reasons. If you dont acknowledge the problem, you create a whole
host of other problems because people will find their own solutions .. not all of them medically or socially
sound ..
JJ
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Hi dear friend, PLZ check this Link, and help us to help Mojtaba!:
http://en-mojtaba-samienejad.blogspot.com/
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Petition for Mojtaba: http://www.petitiononline.com/mojsn/petition.html
Re(11): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Oh please do stop with the pseudo-psychoanalysis crap about “insecurity”. What an absurd response. You surely can’t deny that your posts here often provoke anatagonism from contributors of all persuasions. It might be worth considering, just for a moment, the idea that your condescending, patronising attitude towards others is the reason why.
Re(2): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Iran is changing very fast. I read an interesting article not long ago about how many young Iranians, and especially those from the wealthier families, are leaving Islam and converting to Christianity or back to the original Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism.[/quote]
Here we go with this line again. Do you know any Iranians? I can tell you that the vast majority of them are not leaving Islam to go jump over fires once a year. Even here in the USA, where the Iranian community is overwhelmingly secular and non religious, you will not see much or any of this. The Iranian community in the US is made up mostly of Iranians who left directly before or right after the fall of the Shah and are pretty non religious as a whole. Like most Muslims, they either keep their religion or just stop practicing it at all, but they seldom leave it.
We have an Iranian family that my wife’s family has been close to for years. One of the female members recently married a Christian man. It created a large family scandle. There is a long way to go before you see any significant movement of Iranians away from Islam. I would argue that a loosening of the grip of the religious authorities in Iran will actually stimulate growth in Islamic interest, not a decline. The religious establishment in Iran has done more to hurt Islam in their own country than to help and I look at any such movement away from Islam in Iran to be more of a statement against the clerics and an act of rebellion, rather than an endorsement of any other movement.
Re(3): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Here we go with this line again. Do you know any Iranians?[/quote]
Yes, I do actually. Quite a few of them. Isn’t it time that you (an American) dropped this facile pretence of being the only person who knows anything at all about the Middle East and other Muslim cultures? You seem to imagine that everyone else lives in splendid isolation and ignorance. On several occasions you’ve even presumed to tell Arabs about Arab cultures and societies. It’s embarassing to read.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
This is a terrible thing to do. You capture my exact sentiment…what’s the point? It is meant to discourage others from doing it, I guess. But still, why??? And of course, I agree that religion and politics needs to be separate.
Euff euff euff…
Liminal
Re(4): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Yes, I do actually. Quite a few of them. Isn’t it time that you (an American) dropped this facile pretence of being the only person who knows anything at all about the Middle East and other Muslim cultures? You seem to imagine that everyone else lives in splendid isolation and ignorance. On several occasions you’ve even presumed to tell Arabs about Arab cultures and societies. It’s embarassing to read. [/quote]
Then it should be very clear to you that there is no sizable shift in Iranians anywhere to convert to ancient pagan beliefs or to Christianity. As to telling Arabs about Arab culture and societies, I hope you are aware that there are numerous Arab cultures and numerous Arab societies, so just because one is familiar with their own doesnt mean one is familiar with others. They are not all the same. This idea comes from tired old Orientalist views. Not all Arabs are the same, knowing one Arab or about one Arab society or culture does not mean you have a grasp on them all. I am most familiar with Saudi culture, but I am aware of some aspects of other Arab culture. It is entirely possible that I would have knowledge about some aspects of a given Arab culture that Arabs, from other areas, are not aware of. Arab peoples, culture and society is as diverse as their language. A limited amount is understood by everyone, some of it only by the people from that area. I have never claimed to be the only one who knows anything about the Middle East and Muslim countries, but when I see stuff posted here that is obviously nonsense and has no basis in the real world, I will certainly state my opinion to this fact. Again, there is no large or even significant movement amoungst Iranians away from Islam and to pagan or Christian beliefs. Any small number that have done so have been motivated more by a sense of rebellion against the ruling clerics than anything else. Again, I state my contention that the ruling clerics have done more to harm Islam than to help it and when they fall, which God Willing they will, it will allow a lot of people to get closer to their religion without the medling of self appointed “God’s men.”
Re(6): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Jasra: So .. how to propose to deal with back street abortions and the like? [/quote]
Actually, the vast majority of those “back street abortions” were done by doctors, not by smelly drunks with coat hangers.
Aliandra
Re(10): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Well, I know one thing, at least: You don’t place your family’s ‘honor’ so high that you’ll kill her if she makes such a mistake.
Unlike some people.
In Kuwait.
Who just like killing their daughters for no more reason than suspicion. [/quote]
Cultural garbage. I have known instances where stuff like this has happened. It is ironic that these people, who claim to be religious, dont even talk about the religion or moral aspect when these things happen. It is all about family honour and standing. This is why these sorts of things happen in Christian Middle Eastern families as well as in Hindu India. A Christian girl was murdered by her family in Palestine recently when they heard that she was considering marriage to a Muslim.
Re(7): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote] Ethan, they believe in multiple Gods. I had originally pulled a quote off a site of theirs talking about their “main” or “supreme” God and his creation of competeing spirits. Those are pagan beliefs Ethan, the belief in more than one God ect. [/quote]
Malik, your understanding of Zoroastrianism is flawed. There is only ONE God (Ahura Mazda) in Zoroastrainism. It was the first monotheistic religion. These ‘competing spirits’ that you’re talking about, you’ll have to use the proper terminology for them, as I’m not sure what you’re talking about. If you mean the ‘spentas’ – then you’re wrong. Those beings are aspects of the one God that communicate between him and mankind. They are much more like Angels than other Gods.
The duality between Ahura Mazda and Anghra Mainyu is no different from that of God and Satan, as well. In fact, the -IDEA- of God and Satan is Zoroastrian.
—
As for the tenets: I will never make the claim that a religion is perfect. However, the creed of the Zoroastrians is summed up in: ‘Good thought, good word, good deeds’.
Funny however, that you can read such things and be bothered by them in Zoroastrainism, yet you consider the Muslim aversion to menstruation to be holy.
Re(8): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]As for the tenets: I will never make the claim that a religion is perfect. However, the creed of the Zoroastrians is summed up in: ‘Good thought, good word, good deeds’.
Funny however, that you can read such things and be bothered by them in Zoroastrainism, yet you consider the Muslim aversion to menstruation to be holy. [/quote]
There is no “Muslim aversion to menstruation.” It is a matter of cleanliness and nothing else. Unlike Zoroastrians who feel that a woman in menses is evil, that she can kill plants and make seeds infertile with her very presence. Lets take a closer look at the religion that you like to champion.
On intermarriage, they seem to have an obsession with their “Aryan” heritage:
It is important to note that our scriptures do not support patrilineal acceptance or any acceptance of intermarriage which is regarded as religiously sinful.
1: Vendidad, the famous 18.62. “O Ahura Mazda, who grieves (you) with the greatest grief? Who torments (you) with the greatest injury?” Reply: “Certainly the jahi, who causes the procreative seeds to be mixed with the foreigners…”.
[url]http://tenets.zoroastrianism.com/progn33.html[/url]
“It is hardly surprising that Mc. would speak in favour of conversion, and the mixing of races in inter-marriage, and not show any signs of pride in her Aryan Zarathushtri lineage like the rest of us Parsis and Iranis.”
[url]http://tenets.zoroastrianism.com/sassani33.html[/url]
It would seem one of the ceremonies involves requiring children to drink Bull’s urine:
4)Why is the child given Nirang or consecrated bull’s urine to drink before the navjote ceremony?
The child is given Nirang to drink before the Navjote ceremony for the sake of internal internal purification.
[url]http://tenets.zoroastrianism.com/short33.html[/url]
It would seem they are rather negative in their beliefs on homosexuals and homosexuality, and base this on their revealed text. Indeed, this religion of tolerance you talk about has a belief that says homosexuals can be put to death! The same text allows from criminals to be put to death if caught in the act.
“The Zoroastrian faith has historically been strongly opposed to homosexual behavior. Zarathustra’s writings, the Gathas, are silent on homosexuality or bisexuality. They tend to give broad guidance on basic principles without going heavily into commandments.
The Zoroastrian law book, The Vendidad (written circa 250 to 650 CE) contains “laws against demons” which touch on homosexuality. These purity laws are still followed by some conservative Zoroastrian communities. The Vendidad states:
“The man that lies with mankind as man lies with womankind, or as woman lies with mankind, is the man that is a Daeva [demon]; this one is the man that is a worshipper of the Daevas, that is a male paramour of the Daevas”
An ancient commentary on the Vendidad states:
“Four men can be put to death by any one without an order from the Dastur [high priest]: the corpse-burner, the highwayman, the sodomite, and the criminal taken in the deed.”
[url]http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_zor.htm[/url]
It would also seem that they are guilty of some of the very same things YOU have attacked Islam for on this very site. Non Zorasatrians are not allowed in their places of worship. They are required to pray in a dead language, they are required to cover when they pray.
[url]http://tenets.zoroastrianism.com/deen33b.html[/url]
They have interesting beliefs about how to deal with dead bodies:
“They disposed of the dead by exposing the corpses in barren places or on stone towers, called Towers of Silence, where they are eaten by vultures.”
[url]http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Zoroastrim/zoroastrism.htm[/url]
It would seem Ethan that you have done very little looking into this faith that you tout here. It stands guilty of many of the things that you have slammed Islam for. It would seem you are unwilling to apply the same critical eye in this case as you are with Islam. But thanks for providing me with the opportunity to do some research on these people and learn about them.
Re(9): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote] It would seem Ethan that you have done very little looking into this faith that you tout here. It stands guilty of many of the things that you have slammed Islam for. It would seem you are unwilling to apply the same critical eye in this case as you are with Islam. But thanks for providing me with the opportunity to do some research on these people and learn about them.[/quote]
Malik, you are unwilling to turn a truly critical eye on Islam, so you have very little room to talk. You will critique everything else, even coming from little to no knowledge of the subject.
As such I am not unwilling to turn a critical eye on Zoroastrianism or any revealed religion, and certainly I do. There are many things about Zoroastrian customs that I find bizaare, some are horrible, and some are benign. I happen, however, to like the Zoroastrian Creed. I find no fault in it.
Also, after looking at your site links, I’m not surprised to find an enormous amount of bizaare cultural dross there. There’s nothing in that article that references these beliefs coming directly from the Holy texts, and it certainly is no more strange than what you can find on places like Islam Q&A or similar site.
[Modified by: Ethan (Steelangel) on June 10, 2005 07:22 PM]
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Ethan
I think having any discussion with Malik is almost a fruitless affair. You cannot have a meeting of the minds with someone who is not willing to take an honest look at his own beliefs or be open to differant ideas. Phrases bandied such as “cultural rubbish”, “nonsense” and his topical branding of many who disagree with him leaves no room for discussion in an honest manner. Not to mention the ever ready talisman of blaming everyone else.
PM gave him (Malik) some great advice a while back and that was to limit his posts to 5 a day. Sadly he didn’t heed her words of wisdom. And she’s an American Muslim Convert married to a man from Kuwait who also lives in the region.
Re: Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Sagnutty,
I realize this, and the late, unlamented forums were taken down precisely because of a rather unfortunate outburst in which I ripped Malik a few new holes. I do regret not being as diplomatic on the Forums as I am on the Blog.
However, though it seems as if I’m feeding a troll, there is a method to my ‘extremism
Re(1): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Pretty much sums it up. What is it about converts that make many of them feel they must “prove” themselves to be more “religious” then those born into the religion?
Malik can be fun to spare with but when cornered he spirals into the same tired old BS that you feel like you need hip waders and nose plugs. Sad in my eyes.
Re(12): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Oh please do stop with the pseudo-psychoanalysis crap about “insecurity”. What an absurd response. You surely can’t deny that your posts here often provoke anatagonism from contributors of all persuasions. It might be worth considering, just for a moment, the idea that your condescending, patronising attitude towards others is the reason why. [/quote]
I think it has much more to do with the politics and religious nature of most of the people who post here. The average person who posts here is secular in nature and is pro-West(USA) and often rabidly so.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Malik
Do us all a favour on this Holy Day and have a nice big cup of SHUT THE HELL UP for once. Stop answering to every little barb tossed at you. LET IT GO. It only shows you are a very insecure person. If the average person here is PRO WEST you don’t have to be the ANTI Climatic tragedy to fill in the void.
Re: Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]Malik
Do us all a favour on this Holy Day and have a nice big cup of SHUT THE HELL UP for once. Stop answering to every little barb tossed at you. LET IT GO. It only shows you are a very insecure person. If the average person here is PRO WEST you don’t have to be the ANTI Climatic tragedy to fill in the void. [/quote]
What “Holy Day” is that? If you dont like reading my posts, by all means dont. You know, if I dont answer posts directed at me the line is “see, he cannot answer the accusations.” When I do answer them it is “see, he has to ‘answer every little barb toosed at him.” Either way I cannot win, so I do not care. Thank you for your opinion, however. Have a nice Friday.
Re(9): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote] I would not have her compound her mistake by taking the life of a baby. Whether she chose to keep it or give it up for adoption, I would support either. I would not support taking the life of an unborn baby because of a “stupid mistake.” My daughter is just about to turn 13, so it is an issue we have thought about. [/quote]
Well, I know one thing, at least: You don’t place your family’s ‘honor’ so high that you’ll kill her if she makes such a mistake.
Unlike some people.
In Kuwait.
Who just like killing their daughters for no more reason than suspicion.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
I’m astounded. Of some 50 comments above, little is being said about what to do about Mojtaba. I suppose that partly the reason is, that there seems to be little that can be done. Most of the folks who make comments here express belief in God. I invite you all to join me in praying often in any form that is right for you, that we see justice done in this case and others like it.
I’ll grant you that the people who are bringing these charges sincerely believe that they are serving God and doing justice, but our intuititions tell us that freedom of speech and the right to think for ourselves is a Divine Right. WE can’t batter down human institutions but they can and are changed as humanity sees better ways. Prayer is powerful. There was a lot of it going on before the Berlin Wall fell.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
Perhaps it is the Deist in me, but prayer without action is useless. An almighty God knows already what is going on, and it is within his bounds to change things – but he does not. All the fervent extremist prayer in the world has not caused the US to fall, and all the fervent humanist prayer in the world cannot release the political and thought criminals across the globe.
The only thing that will work is action. Prayer can give you focus to action, but without action.. nothing.
A perfect example of this can be found in the thugocracies of many Middle Eastern nations. The people may pray to be free of the dictators, but Allah has ignored them, unless you are of the mind that the US is ‘Allah’s hand’ – which I (and for various reasons, hardly anyone on the globe) do not.
Re(2): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
[quote]What is it about converts that make many of them feel they must “prove” themselves to be more “religious” then those born into the religion?[/quote]
I’m unsure, but it’s a fairly common trait that once you convert to a religion.. any religion.. you become blinded by it, because you want to fit in. Of course, if Malik ever converts away, his blood is legal, so he’s trapped into his spiral forever.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
It’s my view that God is above and beyond most theological concepts. Rather that being a Santa Claus/ Warlord Judge figure in the sky, I see “Him” as being described in terms of basic attributes, such as Principle, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Life, Truth. An example would be the principle of mathematics- we use it in numerous ways, according to our understanding, but it is equally available in the Bronx as well as Iceland, or on Mars. If Al-Gibran discovered Algebra-he didn’t invent it; it existed before him, but once learned ,it can be used to solve many useful problems. It does me no good to pray to Al Gibran to solve the problem, I need to learn how it works and use it. But what praying does is to put us in a listening mode, which we seem to need to do.
I almost never as God to correct a homan situation– I believe, as you say, that if God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, that we can’t tell Him anything.
I would tend, in the case of this young man, to affirm God’s justice, not just to extricate him specifically, but to heal an apparent sense of injustice in the whole situation, and I would include all the seeming victims of injustice everywhere. I believe that our likeness to God doesn’t involve our human form– made of clay, but a Spiritual one. We are reflections and are what God is, spiritually.
The human condition is not as real as it would seem. We get hints of that when it turns out that matter isn’t solid– it’s miles of relative empty space with a balance of particles balanced in some kind of electronic magnetic relationship. That matter, force, and time are theoretically interchangeable, (Einstein). That if you could get the harmonics right, we could walk through walls. That reality is defined and changed by the observer (Schroedinger). So if our ” reality” is governed by our perception, it must do good to try to change that perception.Then our prayers can be that we can see the good in all mankind, but not at all in the wrong that they do. They should be not only for this unfortunate person, but for those who are feeling the need to quell independent thought.
Re(8): Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
JJ, do you have children? I doubt it. If you do and LOVE them, imagine KILLING them before they had a chance to be born. You can argue and come up with any number of excuses, but they are just that, excuses. For every one of your “good excuse for an abortion” cases there are 1000 others who are embarrassed, don’t want to be caught in infidelity, don’t have the time, don’t want the lifestyle cramped, etc, etc. I’ve never heard a number thrown out there by the pro-choice people of the percentage of rape, incest, and the like that are “good” reasons for abortion. I would be willing to wager, the number is way less than a hundreth of a percent. Throw in the partial birth abortion crowd and in my opinion, those are no better than the guys lopping off heads in the ME. We could argue ’till we’re blue in the face of the “innocence” of those victims over there but one UNARGUABLE FACT is these CHILDREN are INNOCENT in every respect. You call them fetuses, but I think of them as CHILDREN. Think in that context and all your arguements will come right back at you.
Mojtaba gets two years behind bars
I find it hilarious all you Arabs talking about other people’s religions as if yours is so liberal and modern. Oh, yes menstruating women are not at all regarded at all as unclean at all in Islam.
http://www.islamiclife.net/index32.html
[b]Menstruation and Post-childbirth Bleeding[/b]
Menstruation is a natural type of blood that flows at regular intervals from a woman’s uterus after puberty. God has laid down certain rules in connection with this, as a concession to the woman, in consideration of her condition.
Menstruation usually lasts 3 to 10 days and nights, varying from woman to woman. Most women have a regular number of days for their monthly menstrual period. The number of days may fluctuate and the period might come a little early or a little late. So when a woman sees menstrual blood, she should consider herself to be menstruating. When it stops, she should consider herself clean. If more blood appears after her menstrual period has ended, but does not have the same color as menstrual blood, it should not be considered as menstruation.
Post-childbirth bleeding is the blood that comes during and after childbirth. It may begin to come 2 or 3 days before delivery and be accompanied by labor pains. There is no minimum limit as to how long a woman will bleed, but generally the upper limit is within 40 days.
Women are prohibited from performing certain acts while they are in this condition, such as follows:
· She cannot pray (salat) after she begins to bleed and does not have to make up any missed prayers.
· She cannot observe any obligatory (Ramadan) or supererogatory fasts. She must make up the obligatory fasting days after regaining her ritual cleanliness. If bleeding begins during a supererogatory fasting day upon which she had intended to fast, she must make it up.
· She can do all pilgrimage rites except circumambulating the Ka‘ba (tawaf).
· She should avoid mosques or places of worship, and cannot touch the Qur’an, whether the original or in translation. She cannot recite it from memory, but can read the verses of prayer and supplication with the intention of praying. (She cannot perform salat but can supplicate and recite the prayers mentioned in the Qur’an with the intention of saying prayers or making supplications.)
· A man cannot have sexual intercourse with his wife while she has post-childbirth bleeding, for she is not allowed to make herself available to him. However, he can kiss, hug, or touch her anywhere besides the pubic region. It is better and highly advisable to avoid the area between the navel and the knees.
When a menstruating woman stops bleeding, she must perform a complete ghusl (major ablution). After this, she must resume praying and fasting, can enter the mosque, make tawaf, recite the Qur’an, and engage in allowable sexual intercourse. She must make up the fasting days that she missed during Ramadan, but not the prayers. The same rules apply to women in post-childbirth bleeding.
[b]Istihadha (Non-menstrual Vaginal Bleeding)[/b]
In some women, bleeding never stops; in others, it continues for longer than normal. This blood is called istihadha. Likewise, any blood coming before puberty and after menopause is also considered istihadha.
A woman with this condition should calculate when her period would normally end, and then stop praying during the days of her calculated period and follow all of the other menstruation-related rules. For the rest of the days, her bleeding should be treated as istihadha. If she does not have a regular period or does not remember when it used to occur, but can distinguish between the two kinds of blood based on color, thickness, and smell (i.e., menstrual blood is dark, thick, and has a strong odor, while istihadha is bright red, thin, and less disagreeable in smell), she must act accordingly. If she does not have a regular period and cannot distinguish between the two types of blood, she must consider the blood coming for 3 to 10 days every month as menstruation and calculate it from the time she first noticed her vaginal bleeding.
There is no difference between a woman beset by istihadha and one who has a complete cessation of menstrual flow, except as follows:
· If the first woman wants to perform wudu’ (ritual ablution), she should wash the blood from her vaginal area and then apply a menstrual pad or wrap the area with a clean rag on top of a wad of cotton to catch the blood. Any blood coming out after that is of no account.
· She must perform wudu’ for every obligatory prayer.
Ghusl (Major Ablution)
Ghusl means major canonical ablution or a complete washing of the body. It becomes obligatory after sexual intercourse, even if only the head of the penis disappears into the vagina. Any discharge of semen, and the completion of menses and post-childbirth bleeding.
Taking ghusl every Friday before the congregational prayer is highly advisable, for the Prophet always did so. Before beginning ghusl, one should make the intention to perform it and, if one will pray after performing it, also the prayer.
[b]Things Forbidden to a Ritually Impure Person[/b]
People who are in this state cannot pray, circumambulate the Ka‘ba (tawaf), enter a mosque or place of worship unless necessary, or touch the Qur’an or any of its verses except with a clean cloth or something similar.
What Makes One’s Ghusl Valid?
· Rinsing the mouth thoroughly so that all of its parts are cleaned properly.
· Rinsing the nose right up to the nasal bone.
· Washing all bodily parts thoroughly, including the hair.
The best way to perform ghusl is as follows:
· Having the intention (niyyat) to cleanse the body from (ritual) impurity while washing oneself.
· Washing the hands up to the wrists three times.
· Washing the private parts thoroughly.
· Removing all filth from all bodily parts.
· Performing ablution.
· Washing all bodily parts three times, including the hair thoroughly. No part, even the size of a pinpoint, is allowed to remain dry. Rubbing and pressing the body is not obligatory.
Tayammum (Ablution with Clean Soil)
When a person is too sick to use water or none is around when it is time to pray, he or she can perform tayammum in place of wudu’ and ghusl.
The requirements are as follows:
· Intending to perform tayammum to remove any impurity.
· Striking the pure soil lightly with the palms of both hands and passing the palms over the face one time.
· Striking the pure soil again with one’s palms and rubbing the right and left arms alternately from the fingertips to the elbows.
Tayammum is nullified as soon as the cause for performing it is removed (i.e., the sick person recovers or pure water is found). If a person performs tayammum and then prays, he or she does not have to repeat the prayer if the conditions for it are removed before the time for that particular prayer ends.
Wudu’ (Ablution)
Wudu’ involves washing with water at least once the usually exposed bodily parts, namely, the face, hands and arms up to (and including) the elbows, and feet, and wiping one-quarter of the head. It is obligatory for any obligatory or supererogatory prayer, circumambulating the Ka‘ba, and touching the Qur’an with bare hands.
Wudu’ is performed in the following manner:
· Ensure that the water to be used is pure.
· Intend to perform wudu’ to offer prayer, if you plan to pray after taking it.
· Recite: “Bismillahir-Rahmanir-Rahim� (i.e., in the Name of God, the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate).
· Wash the hands up to the wrists three times, and do not miss the parts between the fingers.
· Clean your mouth with a brush or a finger, and gargle with water three times.
· Rinse the nostrils with water three times.
· Wash the face from the forehead to the chin and from ear to ear three times.
· Wash the right arm followed by the left up to the elbows three times.
· Wipe at least a quarter of the head with wet hands, pass the wet tips of the little fingers inside and the wet tips of the thumbs outside the ears, and pass the palms over the nape and sides of the neck.
· Finally, wash the feet up to (and including) the ankles, the right foot first and then the left, taking care to wash in between the toes, each three times.
The obligatory acts are as follows:
· Washing the face.
· Washing both arms up to and including the elbows.
· Wiping a quarter of the head with wet hands.
· Washing both feet up to and including the ankles.
The following acts nullify wudu’:
· Whatever comes out from the two private parts (front and back): waste matter, urine, wind, wadi (a thick white secretion discharged after urination), mazi (a white sticky fluid that flows from the sexual organs when thinking about sexual intercourse or foreplay, and so on), and prostatic fluid. Semen, menstrual blood, and post-childbirth blood require ghusl.
· Emission of blood, pus, or yellow matter from a wound, boil, pimple, or something similar to such an extent that it flows beyond the wound’s mouth.
· Vomiting a mouthful of matter.
· Physical contact for pleasure between men and women without any obstacle (e.g., clothes). If the head of one’s penis disappears into a woman’s vagina, ghusl is required.
· Loss of consciousness through sleep, drowsiness, and so on.
· Temporary insanity, fainting, hysteria, or intoxication.
· Audible laughter during prayer.
Wiping over Clean, Indoor Boots (Khuffayn)
While performing wudu’, one can wipe over (the top of) their clean, indoor boots once with wet hands instead of washing the feet.
· Boots should be waterproof and cover the whole foot up to (and including) the ankles. They must have no holes wider than three fingers in width. It does not matter if their mouths are so wide that the feet can be seen when looking down at them.
· They must be fit, strong, and tough enough so that the feet would not come out of them, and they should not fall down when walked in for 3 miles.
· They cannot be made out of wood, glass, or metal.
· One must put on the boots after washing one’s feet while performing ablution. One can wear it for a whole day if one is resident. If traveling, one can wear it for 3 consecutive days.