We have a right

Comments

1. 
   anonymous

   3 Dec, '05 at 2:56

   We have rights

   I hope they really investigate the case regarding Mousa Abd-Ali and bring those who are responsible to justice. Otherwise, the problems Bahrain is facing will escalate and it will lead to more turmoil. Nevertheless, the non elected minister is doing a good job holding a press conference after the riots. I hope he keeps his promise; because the people are quite fed of hearing promises the government doesn’t keep. However, this is something that is not unusual of the regime; every time something happens they come out with there empty promises to calm the situation.

   Leif

2. 
   anonymous

   3 Dec, '05 at 2:59

   We have rights

   I’m sorry; I made a mistake; I meant usual not unusual.

   Leif

3. 
   anonymous

   3 Dec, '05 at 3:02

   We have rights

   Al-Minbar is there, but NDAS -wisley- is not. A right issue at a wrong time. I’m afraid we’ re heading towards the same silly polarisation as Egypt had: Tagammu3 and other liberal folks vs the majority.

4. 
   anonymous

   3 Dec, '05 at 3:23

   We have rights

   It’s been changed from “We have THE RIGHT” to “We have rights”, I think it’s much better now as the previous one was yefashil

   Hassan Khuzaei

5. 
   mahmood

   3 Dec, '05 at 3:41

   Re: We have rights

   Hassan I was thinking of that before I left the office this evening, and I just couldn’t find the perfect translation to the Arabic “لنا حق” and the closest I came up with is this “new” title. I know it doesn’t do justice to the Arabic, but it is better than “we have the right”, and “we have rights” is much stronger isn’t it?

   Now can I buy you some amber liquids before you disappear to colder climes?

   mahmood@mahmood.tv is the address, please use it!

6. 
   mahmood

   3 Dec, '05 at 3:44

   Re: We have rights

   I always get confused with these long names of societies. I think Ibrahim Sharif did the right thing in getting a new acronym for his society (وعد) which is a re-arrangement of the actual National Democratic Action Society’s name in Arabic but newspapers thought it was a completely new name! But it still confuses the hell out of me of who’s who. So the “democraty” entry of the 29 was not NDAS you say?

7. 
   anonymous

   3 Dec, '05 at 4:31

   Re(1): We have rights

   The signatory is aldemokrati [i]altaqaddumi[/i] (madan’s) as opposed to [i]alwatani[/i] aldemokrati (sharif’s). Confusing it is.

8. 
   mahmood

   3 Dec, '05 at 4:53

   Re(2): We have rights

   thanks for correcting me, I’m sure I’ll continue to confuse them!

9. 
   anonymous

   3 Dec, '05 at 7:52

   We have rights

   Sorry, folks. The nearest translation that the 29 socieites could come up with was ” We Have a Right,” and you can find the English translation of the full declaration in today’s Bahrain Tribune. Thank you for your support, Mahmood. We look forward to your future contributions to this campaign.

   Adel Fakhro.
   President
   Almuntada Society.

10. 
    anonymous

    4 Dec, '05 at 1:04

    Re: We have a right

    These riots weren’t about protesting the individual case of Abdali but an attempt to prompt government repression and bring about a political crisis. That’s why the protestors came armed with bags of rocks and went round burning police cars.

    The Interior Ministry’s been clever and not taking the bait. Instead they’re doing the right thing and are to investigate the situation, thereby emptying the rioters of their political cause. The other problem for the leaders of the riots is that Al Wefaq and co see them as competitor and have no interest in becoming involved in the showdown.

11. 
    anonymous

    4 Dec, '05 at 7:04

    We have a right

    [arabic]موقÙ? “وعد” من “الحملة الوطنية للدÙ?اع عن الحريات الشخصية والمدنية”

    اشارة الى مقترح اعلان” لنا حق” الذي دعتنا جمعية المنتدى للمشاركة بالتوقيع عليه مع مجموعة من القوى “الليبرالية” البحرينية، Ù?قد تم مناقشة اقتراح جمعية المنتدى Ù?ÙŠ اجتماع المكتب السياسي الذي خلص الى عدم المواÙ?قة على توقيع الاعلان بشكله الحالي والى عدم امكانية تعديله بالشكل الذي ترغب Ù?يه “وعد” بسبب بعض التعديلات الجوهرية التي من الصعب التواÙ?Ù‚ عليها مع أطراÙ? مختلÙ?Ø© الاتجاهات السياسية بين مؤيدة ومحايدة ومعارضة للحكومة. ومن المهم شرح وجهة نظرنا لأعضاء “وعد” وأصدقائنا والجمهور الكريم على النحو التالي:
    من حيث المبادئ العامة:
    1. تقÙ? “وعد” Ù?ÙŠ صÙ? المداÙ?عين عن الحريات الشخصية وتساهم Ù?ÙŠ الجهود الرامية للدÙ?اع عن حريات المواطنين الخاصة وتوسيع خياراتهم ورÙ?ض محاولات التضييق عليهم ÙˆÙ?رض الاخرين لمعاييرهم Ù?ÙŠ الملبس والمشرب والمأكل والÙ?رح وما يقرأ ويكتب والثقاÙ?Ø© والرأي والمعتقد وحقوق المرأة وغيره، ومن هذا المنطلق ساهم رئيس الجمعية بمداخلة Ù?ÙŠ الملتقى الذي نظمته جمعية المنتدى Ù?ÙŠ 21 نوÙ?مبر 2005 للتعبير عن التضامن مع الحقوق الشخصية.
    2. ÙˆÙ?ÙŠ Ù†Ù?س الوقت نعتبر قضية الحرية كل لا يتجزأ بحيث لا يمكن الدÙ?اع عن الÙ?رد أمام تعسÙ? المجتمع دون الدÙ?اع عن المجتمع أمام استبداد الدولة، لذلك Ù?اننا Ù†Ù?هم مشروع “التيار الليبرالي” بشكل أكثر شمولية مما يتم تداوله بين بعض جماعات “التيار الليبرالي” البحريني حيث لا تنسجم بعض اطروحات جماعات Ù?ÙŠ هذا “التيار” مع تاريخ الليبرالية كحركة سياسية واجتماعية واقتصادية قامت على تحرير المجتمع من استبداد الحكام وتحرير الÙ?رد من استبداد المجتمع كما قامت على مبدأ الاقتصاد الحر (اقتصاد السوق).
    3. كما نعتبر ان الالتزام بالديمقراطية يعني حكم الشعب واحترام خياراته وقرارات ممثليه المنتخبيين Ù?ÙŠ انتخابات حرة وعادلة ونزيهة، ونحن لذلك نرÙ?ض الاستقواء بالحكومة، حتى ولو واÙ?قتنا الرأي، ضد ارادة الشعب أيا كانت هذه الارادة، Ù?لا يمكن أن يكون الليبرالي ديمقراطيا اذا كان انتقائيا Ù?ÙŠ قبوله أو عدم قبوله لنتائج ممارسة الشعب للديمقراطية.
    4. ونرى بأن الديمقراطية لا تنجح ولا تكتمل الا بالتسامح بين جماعات الشعب المختلÙ?Ø© وقبول كل منهم الاخر والقيام بالتسويات وتقديم التنازلات المتبادلة بين Ù?ئاته دون الاضرار بالصالح العام.

    من ناحية شكل الاعلان ومدلولاته:
    1. Ù?ÙŠ حين يتحدث اعلان “لنا حق” Ù?ÙŠ مقدمته عن الدÙ?اع عن الحريات الشخصية والمدنية Ù?انه Ù?ÙŠ حقيقة الأمر يركز على الحريات الشخصية الأمر الذي أشرنا الى ضرورة معالجته Ù?ÙŠ البيان ÙˆÙ?ÙŠ مواقÙ? “التيار الليبرالي” بشكل عام اذا اريد لهذا “التيار” المصداقية والنجاح والانتشار. واذا أراد أن يتحول الى تيار شعبي، وهو ما ندÙ?ع باتجاهه، Ù?ان على “التيار الليبرالي” أن يتبنى الحقوق الاقتصادية للمواطنين من الÙ?قراء والعاطلين وذوي الدخل المحدود ويطالب الدولة بالتوزيع العادل للثروة والأرض وبالضمان الاجتماعي والضمان ضد التعطل ومحاسبة الÙ?اسدين وتسميتهم دون مواربة.
    2. والاعلان Ù?يه تلميح واضح بأن المعني Ù?ÙŠ النقد هم التيارات والجماعات الدينية Ù?هو يتحدث عن “محاولات البعض Ù?رض رأيه على القوى التي لا تتÙ?Ù‚ معه Ù?ÙŠ اطروحاته Ùˆ تهميشها Ùˆ اسكات صوتها”ØŒ Ù?ÙŠ حين يتجنب الاشارة أوالتلميح الصريح الى الحكم الذي يسلب الحريات ويحتكر السلطة والثروة، والى ألاعيب الحكم Ù?ÙŠ الاستعانة بالتيار الليبرالي ضد الاسلامي تارة والعكس تارة أخرى. Ù?Ù?ÙŠ رمضان الÙ?ائت وأيام العيد قدمت السلطة تنازلا للتيار الاسلامي الممثل Ù?ÙŠ مجلس النواب من خلال منع الÙ?نادق من تقديم المشروبات الكحولية استجابة لضغوط نواب أرادوا تسجيل مكاسب شعبية قبل أقل من عام من الانتخابات النيابية مقابل سكوتهم عن الÙ?ساد ومسلسل نهب الأراضي من قبل كبار المسؤولين.
    3. والاعلان يتحدث عن تشكيل جبهة أو تيار لليبراليين يعمل على توحيد صÙ?ÙˆÙ?Ù‡ وبان الندوة التي عقدتها جمعية المنتدى قد بينت “بأن التيار الوطني الليبرالي هو طرÙ? لا يمكن تجاهله، وهو يشكل تيارا شعبيا متعاظما، ويتجه الى توحيد صÙ?ÙˆÙ?Ù‡ Ùˆ الاتÙ?اق على محاور عمل مشتركة”. ونحن نرى بأن الحديث عن “تيار شعبي” Ùˆ“توحيد الصÙ?ÙˆÙ?” Ùˆ“الاتÙ?اق على محاور عمل مشتركة” توحي بقيام ائتلاÙ? ليبرالي يقوم بالاستعداد لخوض الانتخابات البلدية والنيابية، وهو أمر نؤيده وندعو اليه شريطة أن يكون بين ليبراليين حقيقيين يدعون الى ملكية دستورية وتوزيع عادل للدوائر الانتخابية وبرلمان منتخب كامل الصلاحية ومواطنة تكÙ?Ù„ تكاÙ?ؤ الÙ?رص والتوزيع العادل للثروة. ونحن نعلم علم اليقين بأنه لا يمكن الاتÙ?اق على هذه الامور بوجود أطراÙ? Ù?ÙŠ هذه الجبهة “الليبرالية” على علاقة حميمة بالحكومة (احدى الجمعيات اÙâ€Å

12. 
    mahmood

    4 Dec, '05 at 7:28

    Re: We have rights

    Ah, thanks very much for your correction bu Mohammed. I appreciate your input. Unfortunately the bahraintribune.com site’s pdf pages cannot be accessed at the moment but shall look for the translation and put it up here as it is important for people to understand what the whole campaign is about.

    And you can rest assured that you will have my full support in this endeavour. Personal freedoms to me are sacrosanct.

13. 
    anonymous

    4 Dec, '05 at 7:30

    Way to go NDA

    The previous press release clarifies the NDA’s or wa3d’s position on this movement, and it basically rips it to shreds (almost) on the basis that a so-called liberal ‘movement’ shouldn’t focus on individual rights over that of society and state or the ‘greater good’ – a very good point and a contentious issue even in the West. I’m not going to translate the whole thing, and all this time i’ve been swinging between joining the NDA or Wefaq, this press release has really pushed me towards the NDA, I really do feel that it has the ethical upperhand and an ideologically robust agenda over and above the societies under signing the declaration ‘we have rights’ that just seems like a reactive ploy by all those who think they’re not gona be allowed to order a beer in the local hotel bar.

14. 
    anonymous

    4 Dec, '05 at 9:19

    Which totalitarianism to choose?

    One of the reasons why the NDA or Wa’ad is held in contempt is because it would rather side with the Islamists than the Left. Its completely failed to learn the lessons of history (Tudeh in Iran? Hello?) and deservedly has no public support (How many seats did it win in the municipal elections which it contested? 0)

    If there’s anything more shameful than the NDA’s alliance with the Islamists, its the obviously nonsense view still held by many that they represent some sort of liberal perspective. These are former Maoists – the ideology of Pol Pot and the Shining Path. They didn’t start to publicly distance themselves from a philosophy of mass murder because of distaste for the Khemer Rhouge’s methods in the ’70s but began to ask questions after the Berlin Wall came down and it was v. clear it was game over.

    Having said all of that, I would urge you to join them because if you’re alternative’s Al Wefaq you’re screwed. What a dismal choice before you pal – especially given that you could be contributing to something progressive by getting involved in this campaign.

15. 
    anonymous

    4 Dec, '05 at 9:26

    Learn Arabic

    It’s such a shame that you don’t know how to read or write Arabic. I think that actually being able to read and understand the press statement would be a good basis on which to judge the political situation and the political stances of these societies rather then regurgitating the same old crap about Maoism. What is it about the previous statement point 1-5 that you don’t like exactly??

16. 
    anonymous

    4 Dec, '05 at 9:49

    We have a right

    Everyoen ahs rights. Indian freedom fighter Bal Gangadar Tilak said that Freedom is my birthright. Actually we have rights even before we are born.

    What happened in Bahrain is sad. While people have a right to protest, they do not have aright to hurt others or their property just because they are frustrated.

    It is sad to see the religious leaders joining these processions but escaping the violence. I am not saying that they should get hut but they should take an active role in helping youth model themselves the way Islam has shown us to be. I am not a muslim but I belive all relgioun point us in the right direction. However some religious leaders jsut look in the directions they want and drag ignorants with them and leave them to face the consequences of their folly.

    What happened in Bahrain could have been prevented by the people who decided to make the procession and by religious leaders. If Mr. Abdali was raped and beaten, then his relatives and frineds could have helped by filing a case with the police, getting medical reports and getting an artist to make portraits of the perpetrators so they police could search them out even if the police or cid was involved in the crime. This will boost democracy and show the youth the path that they have to take when faced with trying situations.

    Protest can be made in many ways, by writing letters, making speaches based on evidence and truth, by writing articles based on truth and realities. If the youth in Bahrain, are guided by their parents with discipline and proper training and education, they can lessen the burden of problems. For example, teach them to be self reliant, to do housework to wash their clothes, to iron their clothes, to study well and to improve their skills, find summer jobs, temporary jobs and then find permanent jobs or set up businesses. This will help them to get rid of unnecessary housemaids, to become self disciplined and strong, mentally, physically and spiritually. 99 percent of your problems will be solved. Youthfull energy must be channelled in thw right direction. Merely memorising religious books will not help. Understanding God’s message and using it rightly will help Bahrainins to progress in the right way.

17. 
    anonymous

    4 Dec, '05 at 12:34

    We have a right

    The problem [i]sometimes[/i] isn’t with high-level officials, it’s the no-good people under them who delay orders or implementation of great things. Sometimes they enjoy torturing people with beaurocratic BS so that either people get fed up or “slip something under the table”. Corruption still exists till this day…

    But you’re right Mahmood, not all is bad, we do have good things from time to time that ease us up a bit 🙂

    -LIB Team ([url]http://lifeinbahrain.blogspot.com[/url])

18. 
    anonymous

    4 Dec, '05 at 12:55

    We have a right

    No surprise that the Bahrain Centre for Human Rights wasn’t among the civil society organisations involved in the campaign to protect civil rights.

19. 
    anonymous

    5 Dec, '05 at 1:37

    We have a right

    I think what is important is that the Interior Ministry has announced an investigation into this matter and the Minister’s met with the victim’s family. I can’t imagine this happening anywhere else in the Middle East.

20. 
    anonymous

    5 Dec, '05 at 8:07

    Re: We have a right

    What was given in the papers is that the rioters had initially planned a procession related to unemployment issues, but since Mr. Abdali was apparently tortured and raped, they decided to use this as the reason for protest as their initial procession was not authorised. This is what I discerned from the papers.

    However whatever their motivation, my stand is clear that clerics should not involve themselves in politics. Islam however permits anything and everything that is done in its name or so it seems as much is being said and done in the name of islam. I do not wish to sound prejudiced but this is the face that is shown to everyone. Keep religion out of polititcs. Religion is one’s personal relationship with God. Laws are needed to govern our lives and prevent religion from being forced and misintrepreted by so called leaders or Shekhs or Imams.

    There was a better way to handle the situation. If the unemployment committeee found that there was an initial lack of response from the security officials then they could have petitioned the authorities for a thorough and unbiased investigation and asked them to give all gory details in the papers. Instead they decided to play agent provocateur. Perhaps they did try to calm the youth or warm them but this was not enough as they were already prepared to cause damage and destruction.

    We can only feel the pain if our own family is hurt. Freedom may be our birthright but we cannot use this freedom to oppress others, damage others property and make jihad on others just because we feel we have the justification for it.

21. 
    anonymous

    5 Dec, '05 at 10:23

    Re: Way to go NDA

    At the end of the day, Wa’ad decided against backing it not based on what was written in the statement, but what wasn’t. I personally feel this is the wrong way to go about it. This is not only about not being “allowed to order a beer in the local hotel bar”. The issue is much bigger than that.

22. 
    anonymous

    5 Dec, '05 at 10:37

    Re: We have a right

    The behavior of interior Ministries The Middle East is hardly the appropriate benchmark to use ….

23. 
    anonymous

    5 Dec, '05 at 10:58

    Re(1): We have a right

    You’re right. Its what you’d expect from normal countries.

24. 
    anonymous

    5 Dec, '05 at 11:05

    We have a right

    [quote] Minister vows to find Moussa’s attackers
    Gulf Daily News
    04-12-05
    MANAMA

    MANAMA: Bahrain’s Interior Minister vowed yesterday that the criminals responsible for attacking Unemployed Committee member Moussa Abda’ali would be identified, tracked down and punished. He made his pledge while meeting Moussa and his father.

    Shaikh Rashid bin Abdulla Al Khalifa listened to the whole story of how Moussa was kidnapped and assaulted. Present was human rights activist Nabeel Rajab.

    He called for help from anyone able to provide information about this investigation.

    The minister also promised his personal involvement in the case, underlining the importance of not using such issues in escalating situations and to keep in mind the public interest.
    [/quote]

    http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/1yr_arc_Articles.asp?Article=129008&Sn=BNEW&IssueID=28259&date=12-4-2005

25. 
    anonymous

    5 Dec, '05 at 11:27

    Re(1): Way to go NDA

    Well, clearly what wasn’t written is equally if not more important than what was included as outlined in the NDA statement…I agree basically you can’t hav one without the other.

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